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post #3241 of 3275 Old 05-19-2015, 12:58 AM
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My first try at this, my living room ULF card attached....sure makes me wish my living room weren't open to so much space (adds 2500 cuft)
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post #3242 of 3275 Old 05-19-2015, 10:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovinthehd View Post
My first try at this, my living room ULF card attached....sure makes me wish my living room weren't open to so much space (adds 2500 cuft)
I can't get the ULF image to post? Any tips on getting the image posted from the excel sheet? I'd like to update my info based on my new subs.
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post #3243 of 3275 Old 05-19-2015, 11:26 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bear123 View Post
I can't get the ULF image to post? Any tips on getting the image posted from the excel sheet? I'd like to update my info based on my new subs.
Copy and paste into MS Paint, save as png, and then attach, copy attachment url and paste as image in your post.
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post #3244 of 3275 Old 05-19-2015, 12:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post
I am going to post WOTW and Interstellar. I will show reference level and flat. That last graph was to show the distortion at very high 10hz levels of real world material. I am not sure how to figure it out but the fundamental was at +15 dB and the harmonic at 20hz was 20 dB so about 30-35 dB difference. At reference it was 40-45 dB difference so the distortion is climbing a little like it should when you crank it up.
I think 30db less is 1.0 percent then 40db you move the decimal so 0.1 percent and 50db lower would be 0.01.
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post #3245 of 3275 Old 05-19-2015, 12:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coolrda View Post
I think 30db less is 1.0 percent then 40db you move the decimal so 0.1 percent and 50db lower would be 0.01.
Not quite. 10dB is ~31%, 20dB is 10%, 30dB is ~3.1%, 40dB is 1% so 50dB is ~0.3%

ie you do shift the decimal place but only every 20dB
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post #3246 of 3275 Old 05-19-2015, 01:52 PM
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Ok. I remember the 20db=10 percent not being an issue with subs and the decimal but that's all that stuck. Don't I feel like a Shaved-Tail Louie.
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post #3247 of 3275 Old 05-19-2015, 02:24 PM
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Awesome guys, I am looking at very low distortion even with very high levels, that is what I care about. I love my room.

NanoAvr to Outlaw 975
amps-5 Adcom GFA-555's mono's, Sanway FP14K
5 JBL 2447 CD, 5 2352 horns, 3 15 inch 2035 for fronts, 2 15 inch 2032 for surrounds
subs-IB SI 18ht x12
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post #3248 of 3275 Old 05-19-2015, 08:44 PM
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It looks like the UM 18 came in around 25 mm of Xmas on Database.com. This should help some ULF scores since I have eight, lol. I still can't get that calculator to work.
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post #3249 of 3275 Old 05-20-2015, 05:23 AM
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It only helps above 20hz, below the gap is very small where this threads resides.
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post #3250 of 3275 Old 05-20-2015, 09:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post
Awesome guys, I am looking at very low distortion even with very high levels, that is what I care about. I love my room.
From from my distortion testing I've found that the front and rear arrays lower system distortion. My distortion drops when both arrays are going compared to one of the other. Harmonic cancellation I guess.

Last edited by coolrda; 05-20-2015 at 10:02 AM.
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post #3251 of 3275 Old 05-20-2015, 08:00 PM
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I just chalk it up to more drivers, more sensitivity, less each have to move so less distortion.
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post #3252 of 3275 Old 05-20-2015, 08:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post
I just chalk it up to more drivers, more sensitivity, less each have to move so less distortion.
Well that distortion test I did was with the MV at the same level for all 3 test runs, fronts only, tears only and both. When you turn the rear array on and off you can see the distortion change in realtime, back and forth from on and off. It makes sense that as the pressure changes the front of the cone has a different loading. So when you have two array facing each other, front array and back array, then as they move forward towards each other a pressure builds that offsets the increased pressure building behind the cone therefore lowering distortion. Kinda like a quasi isobaric array. I know that's one of the benefits of IB's, less cone deformation due to extreme excursion.
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post #3253 of 3275 Old 05-20-2015, 09:21 PM
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Originally Posted by coolrda View Post
Cool. Keep them coming. A couple requests if you can, WOTW's Lightening Strikes and Bridge Collapse scene.
Xmen:First Class's Navy v Xmen/Beach scene. Same day delivery please

BTW took the time this morning to move all the driver params out of Winisd and reload only the SI HT18, HST18 and HS24 drivers in Winisd as per DataBass. Made a big difference in box size which now spec out in much small cabs which is excellent news.

Here are the speclabs(all at reference with subs flat to speakers) of WOTW: Lightning Strikes










Bridge collapse





Plane Crash










X-men:FC beach








galonzo and lefthandluke like this.

NanoAvr to Outlaw 975
amps-5 Adcom GFA-555's mono's, Sanway FP14K
5 JBL 2447 CD, 5 2352 horns, 3 15 inch 2035 for fronts, 2 15 inch 2032 for surrounds
subs-IB SI 18ht x12

Last edited by MKtheater; 05-20-2015 at 09:25 PM.
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post #3254 of 3275 Old 05-21-2015, 12:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bear123 View Post
I can't get the ULF image to post? Any tips on getting the image posted from the excel sheet? I'd like to update my info based on my new subs.
I did what Dominguez1 said....no luck? At first I got frustrated because my search just opened up some stupid app called fresh paint, had to open search again and specify ms paint instead of just paint. I hate the app versions of just about everything on 8.1 (on a laptop)....
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post #3255 of 3275 Old 05-21-2015, 03:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovinthehd View Post
I did what Dominguez1 said....no luck? At first I got frustrated because my search just opened up some stupid app called fresh paint, had to open search again and specify ms paint instead of just paint. I hate the app versions of just about everything on 8.1 (on a laptop)....
I don't have MS paint and have not had time to do anything. 16 hour days at work really sucks the life out of you. Even missed two workouts this week and I usually NEVER miss my workouts. I go on days off tomorrow though......I plan to start with a compression test on the HST-18 to compare it with the HT-18, then get both subs set up, dialed in and eq'd. After that I'd like to do a compression test with both subs running with a good response to see where I am good to...I am guessing somewhere in the 110-115 range down to 10 Hz. If I can play without compression at -10 with the subs a bit hot I will have more capability than I need. Might try my new fans as well and straighten up some wiring.
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post #3256 of 3275 Old 05-21-2015, 12:51 PM
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Dom or anyone that can get the ULF card to work, I need to update my card. This is what I have.

Room Size 4,300 cu ft
Number of subs : 8
Six sealed subs with S.I. eq of 1.1 for a total of 6.6 at 10 Hz, 12.5 Hz and 16 Hz and 6.0 at 20 Hz

Two vented subs with S.I. eq of 4 at 16 Hz and 3 at 20 Hz for a total of 8.0 S.I. at 16 Hz and 6.0 S.I. at 20 Hz.

# of subs sealed and vented

S.I. Eq 10 Hz 12.5 Hz 16 Hz 20 Hz

6.6, 6.6, 14.0, and 12.6

Ricci tested the UM and the S.I. Eq may be higher. He got an Xmax of 25-27 mm. It may not be much of a change but, with eight subs, is it significant?

Last edited by derrickdj1; 05-21-2015 at 12:54 PM.
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post #3257 of 3275 Old 05-21-2015, 01:23 PM
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Originally Posted by bear123 View Post
I don't have MS paint and have not had time to do anything. 16 hour days at work really sucks the life out of you. Even missed two workouts this week and I usually NEVER miss my workouts. I go on days off tomorrow though......I plan to start with a compression test on the HST-18 to compare it with the HT-18, then get both subs set up, dialed in and eq'd. After that I'd like to do a compression test with both subs running with a good response to see where I am good to...I am guessing somewhere in the 110-115 range down to 10 Hz. If I can play without compression at -10 with the subs a bit hot I will have more capability than I need. Might try my new fans as well and straighten up some wiring.
I'd imagine you could use something like Google Drive to convert the document to another uploadable file type here. Good luck with the long hours....put many of those in during my working life. The subs will wait for ya like a faithful puppy dog but not need as much clean up....
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post #3258 of 3275 Old 05-22-2015, 09:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dominguez1 View Post
I agree and have said similar in the past.

IMO, often times when folks switch from ported to multiple sealed units, in order to get a similar tactile sensation out loud volumes, they typically need to have much more headroom in their sealed setup than there ported to make up for the tactile feedbacK loss due to the extra harmonic distortion of the former.

IOW, the sealed system will sound cleaner and leaner because of lack of distortion. This could be perceived as "less impact" when in actuality it's just less distortion. With enough headroom with the sealed system, it overcomes that because it can ultimately get louder and more tactile to make that bigger impact.

Ported subs under stress probably "sound" and "feel" perceptively better during loud demos because of their shallower rolloff to tune compared to sealed. Harmonic Distortion in the 15-35hz range is amplified more as a result, and those frequencies are generally associated with the "fun factor" from a tactile feedback standpoint.

YMMV
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Why would this explain why my ported subs exhibit more tactile response? Because of the increased cone excursion at tune?

Why do vented subs and small cabs have a disadvantage?
Wat? Vented subs have LESS cone movement at tune. A proper vented sub will produce more output with less distortion. A poor vented sub will get into issues with port compression and chuffing. Above tune they should perform similarly to sealed, with possibly a bit more output.
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post #3259 of 3275 Old Yesterday, 03:35 AM
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Updated ULF score for me(changed subs):
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post #3260 of 3275 Old Yesterday, 04:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dominguez1 View Post
Ported subs under stress probably "sound" and "feel" perceptively better during loud demos because of their shallower rolloff to tune compared to sealed. Harmonic Distortion in the 15-35hz range is amplified more as a result, and those frequencies are generally associated with the "fun factor" from a tactile feedback standpoint.

you just sold me on ported subs...

at the zenith of his nadir...
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post #3261 of 3275 Old Yesterday, 03:25 PM
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When I hit to download the ULF calculator, I get the file and on Windows 8 I can't open it. It was mention to open it in MS paint and Widows 8 does not have that app. I am at a lost on how to update the ULF card, any help is appreciated.
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post #3262 of 3275 Old Yesterday, 07:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Google docs opens it fine. Have you tried that?
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post #3263 of 3275 Old Yesterday, 07:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovinthehd View Post
My first try at this, my living room ULF card attached....sure makes me wish my living room weren't open to so much space (adds 2500 cuft)
Big rooms are tough down low and it can get expensive quick. Assuming you don't care to go that route, I think you're going down a great alternate path by getting the audible range to reference and supplementing the remainder with transducers.

Not quite the same, but certainly a formidable approach.
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post #3264 of 3275 Old Yesterday, 07:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post
Awesome guys, I am looking at very low distortion even with very high levels, that is what I care about. I love my room.
Where is distortion show on the spec lab? The right side?
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post #3265 of 3275 Old Yesterday, 07:37 PM
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No, you only can see it with movies like BHD and EoT where the fundamental are clearly visible. Take the 10hz sine wave from EoT, the first harmonic is at 20hz and you can see output there where on the digital signal there are no 1st harmonics. So the level of the harmonic will tell you percent and why I asked.
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post #3266 of 3275 Old Yesterday, 07:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by notnyt View Post
Wat? Vented subs have LESS cone movement at tune. A proper vented sub will produce more output with less distortion. A poor vented sub will get into issues with port compression and chuffing. Above tune they should perform similarly to sealed, with possibly a bit more output.
No arguments here. My question was in reference to what coolrda said about excursion being linked to sound intensity. Still not sure if that is what he meant?

My comment about distortion was related to behavior when over the limits, not within.
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post #3267 of 3275 Old Yesterday, 07:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by bear123 View Post
Updated ULF score for me(changed subs):
Nice...looks like your compression sweeps get you to reference down to 10hz. Great results! swapping the ht for an hst will net you 2-3db for a couple hundred? Sounds like money well spent!
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post #3268 of 3275 Old Yesterday, 07:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post
No, you only can see it with movies like BHD and EoT where the fundamental are clearly visible. Take the 10hz sine wave from EoT, the first harmonic is at 20hz and you can see output there where on the digital signal there are no 1st harmonics. So the level of the harmonic will tell you percent and why I asked.
Does the right show you signal level? indicating how much juice is left in the tank? If so looks like you're barely pushing it!
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post #3269 of 3275 Old Yesterday, 09:03 PM
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Originally Posted by dominguez1 View Post
Google docs opens it fine. Have you tried that?
I setup a Google account and tried google doc. I can upload the file and extract it but, no calculator shows up. Is there another way to get the calculator to work? I used the calculator file on the first page of the ULF thread. Thanks.
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post #3270 of 3275 Old Today, 04:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dominguez1 View Post
Nice...looks like your compression sweeps get you to reference down to 10hz. Great results! swapping the ht for an hst will net you 2-3db for a couple hundred? Sounds like money well spent!
Yeah, its in the back of my mind for down the road, but won't likely happen soon. The only other money planned for the HT budget this year will be surrounds in August...yes, I have reference level bass down to 10 Hz and no surround sound yet lol. It's good to know the option is there and that I already have the power to make it a viable upgrade though.
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