Your Home Theater ULF Score - Page 110 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #3271 of 3296 Old 05-24-2015, 04:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dominguez1 View Post
Does the right show you signal level? indicating how much juice is left in the tank? If so looks like you're barely pushing it!
It is the input signal level into speclab, ie the mic signal level.
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post #3272 of 3296 Old 05-24-2015, 07:00 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by derrickdj1 View Post
I setup a Google account and tried google doc. I can upload the file and extract it but, no calculator shows up. Is there another way to get the calculator to work? I used the calculator file on the first page of the ULF thread. Thanks.
Sorry, you need to use google sheets, not docs.

Once in sheets, click on folder icon in the top right, click on upload tab, select the ULF calculator on your computer to upload, viola.
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post #3273 of 3296 Old 05-24-2015, 12:07 PM
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Google sheets does not seem to work either after trying to upload several times. No calculator appears. Thanks for the help but, this calculator does not seem to work on this computer.
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post #3274 of 3296 Old 05-24-2015, 02:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by derrickdj1 View Post
Google sheets does not seem to work either after trying to upload several times. No calculator appears. Thanks for the help but, this calculator does not seem to work on this computer.
Should have nothing to do with your computer...it's cloud based.

Try using a different browser like Chrome.

It should look like this in Sheets:

Attached Thumbnails
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Name:	ULF Calculator - Google Sheets.PNG
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post #3275 of 3296 Old 05-24-2015, 03:34 PM
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I have tried to open it using Firefox, IE and Chrome and no luck. Once the file is uploaded it has a box with the ULF calculator label and nothing opens up. I have tried clicking on anything that looks like a possibility to open it up. It really does not matter at this point since I can figure out the score without the calculator but, just can't post it . I am OK with not being able to get it to work. Thanks for the help and suggestions.
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post #3276 of 3296 Old 05-25-2015, 05:54 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by derrickdj1 View Post
I have tried to open it using Firefox, IE and Chrome and no luck. Once the file is uploaded it has a box with the ULF calculator label and nothing opens up. I have tried clicking on anything that looks like a possibility to open it up. It really does not matter at this point since I can figure out the score without the calculator but, just can't post it . I am OK with not being able to get it to work. Thanks for the help and suggestions.
I can post your ULF card for you, no problem. Just want to get this to work for you, and potentially others who are having this problem.

Have you tried downloading a free spreadsheet program like openoffice.org?

This will avoid any browser problems you are experiencing.
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post #3277 of 3296 Old 05-25-2015, 02:54 PM
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Dom, I have Open Office and just tried the spreadsheet and that did not work. There may be something that I am overlooking in the computer system since I have never been able to get it to work. I am fairly good with computers and have never needed IT guys to repair any software or hardware problems on all the computers that I have owned. I can usually trouble shoot things pretty well but, this one is a bit of a workout.

I will keep trying because if others can get it to work I should also. I know it is impossible for you to do all the calculations for everyone on such a large forum and that was to reason to make the ULF calculator.
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post #3278 of 3296 Old 05-25-2015, 06:07 PM
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I use Libre office and I have to open the software first and then open the ULF within it and then it works.
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post #3279 of 3296 Old 05-27-2015, 09:50 AM
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@dominguez1

Time to update my card. I've finally finished updating my HT room... again.

New placement for my subs, two more 18's and new bass management.

I still have eight HT18's sealed, dual-opposed, four enclosures. Two more of those same enclosures have four Sound Splinter RLp18's nearfield. This past weekend I built a riser and that houses another pair of RLp18's. That's a total of fourteen (14) 18" drivers.

It sounds alright.

Also, I repurposed six of the twelve JBL 2226's. I now bass manage two 15's per LCR at 80hz. The other two 15's (per LCR) are actually just working as "subs". No, they don't have the authority of the 18's but they do add a significant amount of punch to the 50hz and up area of bass and I like that. They operate full range still.

So to sum it up, I have fourteen 18's and six 15's doing 'subwoofer' output bass. Six of the 18's are nearfield with two of the six right under my butt.

Also, I took time to measure out my room and subtract all the space being taken up by all the structures in the room. I'm now closer to 1,950 sq ft. Lol, seriously not trying to cheat.


I did have some FR graphs but they change each time I take some and for whatever reason my last ones have a severely drooping lowend. First day I had this up I was flat to 7hz and now it's more like 15-20hz. *shrugs* I'll get a graph up as soon as I can.

My Dual 18" LLT subs 120dB down to 10hz

 

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post #3280 of 3296 Old 05-27-2015, 05:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post
@dominguez1

Time to update my card. I've finally finished updating my HT room... again.

New placement for my subs, two more 18's and new bass management.

I still have eight HT18's sealed, dual-opposed, four enclosures. Two more of those same enclosures have four Sound Splinter RLp18's nearfield. This past weekend I built a riser and that houses another pair of RLp18's. That's a total of fourteen (14) 18" drivers.

It sounds alright.

Also, I repurposed six of the twelve JBL 2226's. I now bass manage two 15's per LCR at 80hz. The other two 15's (per LCR) are actually just working as "subs". No, they don't have the authority of the 18's but they do add a significant amount of punch to the 50hz and up area of bass and I like that. They operate full range still.

So to sum it up, I have fourteen 18's and six 15's doing 'subwoofer' output bass. Six of the 18's are nearfield with two of the six right under my butt.

Also, I took time to measure out my room and subtract all the space being taken up by all the structures in the room. I'm now closer to 1,950 sq ft. Lol, seriously not trying to cheat.


I did have some FR graphs but they change each time I take some and for whatever reason my last ones have a severely drooping lowend. First day I had this up I was flat to 7hz and now it's more like 15-20hz. *shrugs* I'll get a graph up as soon as I can.
Damn! You went crazy with the nearfield....love that. That riser sounds awesome!(but it must feel even better)

Would love to experience that...

So from a ULF standpoint, 14 SIs would be a good estimate?

OH...

Pics or it didn't happen...
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post #3281 of 3296 Old 05-27-2015, 08:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post
I now bass manage two 15's per LCR at 80hz. six 15's doing 'subwoofer' output bass.
That is the limitless power of the triple DCX owners club.


27 XLR cables? No Problem!
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post #3282 of 3296 Old 05-27-2015, 08:24 PM
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That is the limitless power of the triple DCX owners club.
27 XLR cables? No Problem!
Anyone else disappointed to see open XLR inputs?

Not your style BTH... I think it's about time you get your priorities straight.
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post #3283 of 3296 Old 05-27-2015, 08:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post
@dominguez1

Time to update my card. I've finally finished updating my HT room... again.

New placement for my subs, two more 18's and new bass management.

I still have eight HT18's sealed, dual-opposed, four enclosures. Two more of those same enclosures have four Sound Splinter RLp18's nearfield. This past weekend I built a riser and that houses another pair of RLp18's. That's a total of fourteen (14) 18" drivers.

It sounds alright.

Also, I repurposed six of the twelve JBL 2226's. I now bass manage two 15's per LCR at 80hz. The other two 15's (per LCR) are actually just working as "subs". No, they don't have the authority of the 18's but they do add a significant amount of punch to the 50hz and up area of bass and I like that. They operate full range still.

So to sum it up, I have fourteen 18's and six 15's doing 'subwoofer' output bass. Six of the 18's are nearfield with two of the six right under my butt.

Also, I took time to measure out my room and subtract all the space being taken up by all the structures in the room. I'm now closer to 1,950 sq ft. Lol, seriously not trying to cheat.


I did have some FR graphs but they change each time I take some and for whatever reason my last ones have a severely drooping lowend. First day I had this up I was flat to 7hz and now it's more like 15-20hz. *shrugs* I'll get a graph up as soon as I can.
See what I mean? somebody is gonna get dead. I ordered 4xHT18's this am. It was like going to the store for a gallon of milk. Theres just no thought process involved any longer. I did it cause you did it, MK did it,(insert whoever's name here) etc. I thought about the in room area as well. I think it only works if we all do it. But thats all right you filthy cheater. I do think your on to something SS. You introduced the next big thing in Home Theater. Room reduction. We could take large airtight bladder and when placed in the room and filled it vacuum packs and conforms to the subs and spectators thus reducing a room the size of yours down to about 50 cubes. When the movies over all guests must spend 30 mins in an adjoining decompression tank before being released to go home. A small price to pay for the ultimate HT experience. Sorry Dom, I'll be back to work on said project soon.
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post #3284 of 3296 Old 05-28-2015, 09:39 AM
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Another thing that should be brought to the forefront is electronic rolloff(signal chain). I know we discuss this casually but if our source/preamps/amps all add to that, this can be a quite a battle. could be why some feel nothing while other are loving the ULF and ULFTR. At least from this prospective having a small room pays big dividends. And tight well constructed rooms as well. We all know this stuff but follow me for a moment.

My 22 year old and I were having a discussion last night about him losing to a friend in a race. He's gotta a Golf R/370hp vs his friends EVO/390hp, both AWD. The VW will stay with most 5-600hp Vettes. He's was telling me that was the first time he lost and he didn't understand why, but he gave props to his buddy. I asked him about the two cars, and he said not much difference but then said he has 1000cc injectors I have 700cc, he has a straight pipe I have a performance exhaust, He has 30+lbs of boost I have "only" 28lbs and it starts dropping off at 6000rpm. He has 54mm turbo mines 47mm. He's using E85 I'm running street gas. Well thats five not so small reasons for him pulling you.

I started thinking about ULF from that point of view. Room A with 4 subs+gear flat to 3hz= Room B with 8 subs+gear with 3db/oct rolloff= Room C with 16 subs+gear with 6db/octave rolloff and we can go on. With exception of the Thigpen and Bosso's systems we have very little documentation regarding ULF. How do I know what amp to buy or where in my signal chain I'm losing out. WHAT IF, our sources did indeed rolloff at 6db/oct and everything else is flat. We have a huge uphill battle to overcome this deficiency. Efficiency is the key. We need to test the electronic chain with respect to ULF. If a black box is good at 3-5hz, it should excel above that. Again how do I know that an iNuke isn't the worst pick ever or any amp regarding what we're trying to accomplish. Good electronics should never be down less than a db at 5hz@1w. With different impedances and it changing thru the frequencies what really is happening. That would be good to know. It would be cool if the electronic side could be assured of being up to the tasked or at least knowing what gear to buy if this response is what your looking for. If its getting lost at the source or preamp/amp level, its not getting to the sub. Theres hopefully someone here that can pull this off. I'm fine with making adjustments to compensate for subs and cabs used which can be limiting for various reason. We shouldn't have to make up for and amp nor do I want to use one thats incapable of being flat to 3-5hz. Relatively flat, +/-1-3db. We know that no amp is perfect but I don't want to buy amp A or B on the assumption that it drop 3db@3hz then when tested under a load its more like 14 or 16db. Wouldn't we pick rather have an amp that does better there even if just building a 20hz and above setup. I know its a big task but it would I would be very grateful to have the equivalent of Ricci on the electronic side, as I've stated many times.
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post #3285 of 3296 Old 05-28-2015, 01:53 PM
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Yes, small room plus big enclosures equals no need for all those cables and amps! Here is EoT playing well over reference at 10hz with a single clone. 15 dB over at 10hz! room gain in small room equals





This is without LT boost!
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amps-5 Adcom GFA-555's mono's, Sanway FP14K
5 JBL 2447 CD, 5 2352 horns, 3 15 inch 2035 for fronts, 2 15 inch 2032 for surrounds
subs-IB SI 18ht x12
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post #3286 of 3296 Old 05-28-2015, 02:30 PM
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Originally Posted by coolrda View Post
I know its a big task but it would I would be very grateful to have the equivalent of Ricci on the electronic side, as I've stated many times.
this thread could do with some data -> http://data-bass.ipbhost.com/index.p...-measurements/

amps are harder but the pre side is easy enough to do
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post #3287 of 3296 Old 05-28-2015, 02:44 PM
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The key to low roll off is to have less involved as well. I have a processor and amp and my EQ is all digital so it does not add to the mix. My processor is -3 dB at 2hz and my amp is at least flat to 4hz. Maybe the -3 dB point being slightly below. It is hard to figure out since I have a room peak in the single digits.

NanoAvr to Outlaw 975
amps-5 Adcom GFA-555's mono's, Sanway FP14K
5 JBL 2447 CD, 5 2352 horns, 3 15 inch 2035 for fronts, 2 15 inch 2032 for surrounds
subs-IB SI 18ht x12
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post #3288 of 3296 Old 05-28-2015, 03:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3ll3d00d View Post
this thread could do with some data -> http://data-bass.ipbhost.com/index.p...-measurements/

amps are harder but the pre side is easy enough to do
I looked that over a couple days ago. Its a start but needs more of the mainstream gear used here tested and more in depth like the old measuring of amps done by chasw98 here.

Measuring Amps
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post #3289 of 3296 Old 05-28-2015, 03:45 PM
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Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post
The key to low roll off is to have less involved as well. I have a processor and amp and my EQ is all digital so it does not add to the mix. My processor is -3 dB at 2hz and my amp is at least flat to 4hz. Maybe the -3 dB point being slightly below. It is hard to figure out since I have a room peak in the single digits.
Very important point. The less electronics the better. My goal is source/prepro/amp. Don't know if thats possible or practical but we'll see.
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post #3290 of 3296 Old 05-28-2015, 04:05 PM
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Originally Posted by coolrda View Post
I looked that over a couple days ago. Its a start but needs more of the mainstream gear used here tested and more in depth like the old measuring of amps done by chasw98 here.

Measuring Amps
amps need in depth testing and that's not trivial, Measuring Amplifiers is take 2 on the avs measuring amps btw

sources and pres are just an FR really though so crowdsourcing should work just fine
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post #3291 of 3296 Old 05-31-2015, 02:09 PM
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amps need in depth testing and that's not trivial, Measuring Amplifiers is take 2 on the avs measuring amps btw
sources and pres are just an FR really though so crowdsourcing should work just fine
It's actually take 3.
I tried to do it March of 2014 with my own amps, but my power analyzer blew up before I could build a load bank or voltage divider (just my luck).

I was able to collect some detailed information on a few amplifiers and electronics before it blew up (it was an ebay item and the seller was perhaps a bit shady):
https://sites.google.com/site/measuringamplifiers/
It's an $1100 bill to repair the analyzer; and I'd rather spend that money upgrading my system instead.


Then in November of 2014 NotNyt gave it a go, but he got ill recently which put a huge stop to everything.

Getting access to the amplifiers is key, ownership and/or shipping and then risking amplifier-death can be a brutal process.
You would hope that the amplifier will self-protect before blowing hardware, but that is not ALWAYS the case.

It also takes a long time to capture results and present them in a meaningful way that isn't overly complicated for joe-6-pack.
There is lots of gotcha's along the way too.
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post #3292 of 3296 Unread Yesterday, 06:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post
@dominguez1

Time to update my card. I've finally finished updating my HT room... again.

New placement for my subs, two more 18's and new bass management.

I still have eight HT18's sealed, dual-opposed, four enclosures. Two more of those same enclosures have four Sound Splinter RLp18's nearfield. This past weekend I built a riser and that houses another pair of RLp18's. That's a total of fourteen (14) 18" drivers.

It sounds alright.

Also, I repurposed six of the twelve JBL 2226's. I now bass manage two 15's per LCR at 80hz. The other two 15's (per LCR) are actually just working as "subs". No, they don't have the authority of the 18's but they do add a significant amount of punch to the 50hz and up area of bass and I like that. They operate full range still.

So to sum it up, I have fourteen 18's and six 15's doing 'subwoofer' output bass. Six of the 18's are nearfield with two of the six right under my butt.

Also, I took time to measure out my room and subtract all the space being taken up by all the structures in the room. I'm now closer to 1,950 sq ft. Lol, seriously not trying to cheat.


I did have some FR graphs but they change each time I take some and for whatever reason my last ones have a severely drooping lowend. First day I had this up I was flat to 7hz and now it's more like 15-20hz. *shrugs* I'll get a graph up as soon as I can.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dominguez1 View Post
Damn! You went crazy with the nearfield....love that. That riser sounds awesome!(but it must feel even better)

Would love to experience that...

So from a ULF standpoint, 14 SIs would be a good estimate?

OH...

Pics or it didn't happen...
Don't think we forgot about this @Scott Simonian ....
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post #3293 of 3296 Unread Yesterday, 10:33 PM
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No.
Video or it never happened!


You just can't take it to a...
Whole...
Nother...
Level...
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post #3294 of 3296 Unread Yesterday, 10:47 PM
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Sneak Peak.
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post #3295 of 3296 Unread Today, 05:18 AM - Thread Starter
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^^^Nice!

Where you putting those bad boys? Behind the AT screen? Are those shorter ones end tables? Dual Opposed design?
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post #3296 of 3296 Unread Today, 07:02 AM
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Those are the permanent replacements for whats in there now. They are dual opposed. The 2-20x48" will sit horizontally under the AT screen as the baffle is only 12" deep. The 2-30x24" will sit in a vertical stack, "Raptor Style", in the rear near field location that the Daytons occupy now. I wanted to use the 4xHT18's up front and simply things with placing 2xHS24's nesrfield. I could have gone with 1-30x60" which equals 30 cubes and had just one six foot cab in back. But Nick's pretty busy these days with DSS, not to mention others that are hogging all Nick's resources. I won't mention any names but his initials are Auburnu008. Back to serious, I know Nick would have bent over backwards to get me those asap but being my impatience got the best of me and I ordered more 18's. I like everything to match. 8xHT18D2's isn't much here these days but having the small room is does wonders. Anyway this build is ridiculously quick and easy for future builds. I'll go into much more detail with a build thread but it'll interesting to see how these sound and feel. The interesting thing for me is it will be the first time a complete sub array is measured with everything I can meter it with, then the new array installed at the same positions and directly compared against the old one. We should get a clear idea of the difference of these sealed system and how they load the room with maximizing quarter and eighth space gains and the corresponding changes if any to FR, ULF, ULFTR and otherwise.
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