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post #3361 of 3383 Old 06-24-2015, 09:54 AM
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Ok, just thought I'd update you guys on the VibSensor tutorial. I'm getting there. Ran into few roadblocks.

Excuse #1 . A weeklong family invasion and baby shower.

Excuse #2 . The theater being turned into a staging area for several home projects going on. Not COOL!



Excuse #3 . New sub build. I couldn't help myself. Lots of sneaking around when I was suppose to be helping with excuse 1 and 2. Lots of questions like why did it take 4 hours to cut out the new chair bottoms. Um? Because... Uh? I'm a perfectionist. Hey man, whatever works. It got done. The new near field sub is deployed and operational. Performance matched expectation and exceeded in some ways. 120db@5-6hz doesn't suck.



The build thread of the new sub system will come later so I can get the VibSensor done. For something so simple its truly mind boggling how technical and in-depth the study of vibration and PSD and its relation to FFT is. You could easily spend 4-5 years in college and a lifetime studying and experimenting with this. The applications are staggering. I can tell you this, VibSensor is a first cousin to SpecLab. Ones 2D and the other 3D. Its been a lot of fun playing with the accelerometer with taking a variety of real world measurements. The problem with using the VibSensor is it assumes were at a certain level of study or already know basic engineering of vibrational and PSD. We don't or at least I don't so I have to start from scratch and explain to a small degree the basics, for instance what the graph elements mean. Anyway, this at least shares priority now, so it'll be done and ready to post in the coming weeks.
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post #3362 of 3383 Old 06-28-2015, 12:02 PM - Thread Starter
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post #3363 of 3383 Old 06-28-2015, 12:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post
I think I put in 3x 21SW152's for the JBL's but I forgot honestly. Three UM 15's would be close in displacement so that works too. I didn't even see UM15's on the list. Either way, close enough.

Watched Lone Survivor this weekend and the whole system sounded great but bass was pretty good too. The Chinook drop off sequence was something else with this subwoofer riser. You guys that can get away with a 10" tall riser should try it. Two 18's is plenty. Wow!
Congrats on your 5hz ULF Card...



We have the same size room, and I have roughly 8 SIs in my room when you convert my subs. I can't imagine having 19 SIs in my room...absolutely insane! That must be a hell of a ride.

I just love that sub riser of yours. Does it wobble your seat for the 10hz and below stuff?
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post #3364 of 3383 Old 06-28-2015, 12:49 PM
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Darn, I still can't get the ULF card to work. Next week I will have access to a different computer and I will try it on that.
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post #3365 of 3383 Old 06-28-2015, 12:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dominguez1 View Post
Ok...here's the first go on these:



PSA V3600: Added 6db from XV30SE, and then extended to 12.5hz. I used 12db down from 16hz similar to the Cap1400 difference between 12.5hz and 16hz.

DSS Marianna 24: I compared the XXX on db (small box), versus the estimate for the XXX in an optimal box. At 20hz, it was only a 1db difference. At 16hz, 3db, and at 12.5 and 10hz, 4db difference. These seems to make sense as the small box starts to hamper efficiency and gets more power hungry down low.

Marianna 18: Sames as HST18

Cap2400 17.5hz tune: Up 2db from Cap1400

Thoughts?
Going once....twice...

How many cubes is the Marianna 24?

Does anyone know what the optimal cubes for the RE XXX 18in driver (.707 Qtc)?
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post #3366 of 3383 Old 06-28-2015, 06:18 PM
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Dom, I used the optimal box size for the REXXX when I posted it.
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post #3367 of 3383 Old 06-28-2015, 06:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post
Dom, I used the optimal box size for the REXXX when I posted it.
Yes, but what was the size in cubic feet?
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post #3368 of 3383 Old 06-29-2015, 08:27 AM
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25 cubes!

Yamaha RX-A2030
speakers- 9 Behringer B215XL's
subs- SI 18ht x12 IB powered by Sanway FP14K.
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post #3369 of 3383 Old 06-29-2015, 09:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dominguez1 View Post
Congrats on your 5hz ULF Card...



We have the same size room, and I have roughly 8 SIs in my room when you convert my subs. I can't imagine having 19 SIs in my room...absolutely insane! That must be a hell of a ride.

I just love that sub riser of yours. Does it wobble your seat for the 10hz and below stuff?
Sweet! Thanks. Yeah, it sure does. I had mentioned a page back that the Chinook drop off sequence in Lone Survivor really rocked the couch! Felt like kitty on a woofah.

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Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post
25 cubes!
Yep. Sounds about right.

My Dual 18" LLT subs 120dB down to 10hz ***FOR SALE***

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post #3370 of 3383 Old 06-29-2015, 10:11 PM
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Originally Posted by dominguez1 View Post
^^^Nice DO sonos! Are you using SI 18HTs? Need an update to your ULF card?
Thanks. Finished the rear subs. More details on that to come but builds and projects are backed up. Yes they are SI's. Replaced the Dayton's with 4x18's. Big step up sound quality-wise with matched subs and a substantial gain in ULF and ULFTR. Room really pressurizes and quickly nauseates one whether your in the room or not. The 4-6hz region is nuts. I now have to get the electronics part of the sub systems straightened out but I'm done adding subs. I have updated my ULF card per your reminder. BTW, the tutorial is getting ironed out and I'm hopeful to get it too you by weekend after next. At least part one.





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post #3371 of 3383 Old Yesterday, 07:21 AM
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Those are awesome! Bosso would be proud. I wish I can make something look that good, I need to stay with holes in walls.
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Yamaha RX-A2030
speakers- 9 Behringer B215XL's
subs- SI 18ht x12 IB powered by Sanway FP14K.
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post #3372 of 3383 Old Yesterday, 07:34 AM - Thread Starter
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Wow, nicely done coolrda!

What did you wrap the Sonos with? How many cubes per?
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post #3373 of 3383 Old Yesterday, 11:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dominguez1 View Post
Wow, nicely done coolrda!

What did you wrap the Sonos with? How many cubes per?
Thanks guys. Synthetic Ostrich which is not cheap but nothing like the real thing costwise. Each cab is 9.2 cubes. The wax paper keeps the legs from scratching until I finalize the middle leg height. May trim another inch off.
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post #3374 of 3383 Old Yesterday, 08:33 PM
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Dom, I sent you a PM. I was correct, the ULF card would not work on my windows 8 computer. The card was done on Microsoft Office or an older version of Open Office. Something with osd vs odt or some other computer language.

The card opened right up on an older Widows 7 computer and I was able to record the new data based off my old ULF card from page 74. I don't know if the SI of 1.1 for the UM 18 is the same or if there is an update. I have also included the 8 Aura Pro shakers for the Tactile Feedback score. I left out the 10 and 12 Hz data for the vented subs as you did on page 74. I am still having problems uploading it to AVS. Thanks in advance for your assistance in helping me update the score card.

Derrick
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post #3375 of 3383 Old Today, 06:20 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by derrickdj1 View Post
Dom, I sent you a PM. I was correct, the ULF card would not work on my windows 8 computer. The card was done on Microsoft Office or an older version of Open Office. Something with osd vs odt or some other computer language.

The card opened right up on an older Widows 7 computer and I was able to record the new data based off my old ULF card from page 74. I don't know if the SI of 1.1 for the UM 18 is the same or if there is an update. I have also included the 8 Aura Pro shakers for the Tactile Feedback score. I left out the 10 and 12 Hz data for the vented subs as you did on page 74. I am still having problems uploading it to AVS. Thanks in advance for your assistance in helping me update the score card.

Derrick
In the next ULF Calculator update, it will have the latest subs tested by Josh as well as other production subs that I/we have estimated. The UM18 will be on there. Having said that, I've got a working unpublished version with the new subs....so here is your new ULF card:



The newly tested UM18 bumped your score up some.
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post #3376 of 3383 Old Today, 08:16 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coolrda View Post
Thanks. Finished the rear subs. More details on that to come but builds and projects are backed up. Yes they are SI's. Replaced the Dayton's with 4x18's. Big step up sound quality-wise with matched subs and a substantial gain in ULF and ULFTR. Room really pressurizes and quickly nauseates one whether your in the room or not. The 4-6hz region is nuts. I now have to get the electronics part of the sub systems straightened out but I'm done adding subs. I have updated my ULF card per your reminder. BTW, the tutorial is getting ironed out and I'm hopeful to get it too you by weekend after next. At least part one.





I'm really interested in hearing more about the difference in tactile response between your new vertical dual opposed configuration vs your prior design (drivers firing at your HT seating). Is it possible for you to compare results from just the rear subs using the VibSensor?

I know you mentioned that it was a step up in ULFTR, but is that because your subs are firing down at your riser, exciting the riser more? Or is a vertical dual opposed design more tactile than front firing or the opposite?

Do you have the new design running hotter than the old, adding to the TR?
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post #3377 of 3383 Old Today, 08:37 AM
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Hey, Dom. One little thing on my new card.

You have my RLp18's listed as RPL18's.

My Dual 18" LLT subs 120dB down to 10hz ***FOR SALE***

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post #3378 of 3383 Old Today, 10:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dominguez1 View Post
I'm really interested in hearing more about the difference in tactile response between your new vertical dual opposed configuration vs your prior design (drivers firing at your HT seating). Is it possible for you to compare results from just the rear subs using the VibSensor?

I know you mentioned that it was a step up in ULFTR, but is that because your subs are firing down at your riser, exciting the riser more? Or is a vertical dual opposed design more tactile than front firing or the opposite?

Do you have the new design running hotter than the old, adding to the TR?
I have lots of VibSensor data on the rears alone so a direct comparison is available and coming. The biggest reason is the displacement as 4 of the SI's equal 9 of the 15's. I do think though that's there's more too this DO vertical stacking concept. One of the first things I'm going to test with the accelerometer is the cabs. I'm really curious how much difference there will be.
My tactile testing so far has been my impression only of the two both seated and standing on the riser and standing off the riser. I feel more air movement, not pressurization though there's a big gain there, but air blowing.
No change in the electronics and I just unplugged and plugged in new cabs. Tonite is will be the first chance I've had to do some extensive testing with sines and clips.
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post #3379 of 3383 Old Today, 03:52 PM
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Dom, this is what I get for a ULF card : SI=1 UM18=1.1

Room Size: 4300

Number of subs 8

Type: 6 Sealed (3 dual boxes) and 2 Vented boxes

10 Hz, 12.5 Hz, 16 Hz, 20 Hz
SI Equivalent: 6.6, 6.6, 14.6, and 12.6
ULF Score: 652, 652, 295, and 341
Groundplane SPL: 105.6, 109.1, 121.1, and 126.2
Stars : 4.5, 4.5, 5, and 5
Reference Estimate: Above Ref at 16 and 20 Hz
Subwooferage 2 Vented subs in Chase VS 18.1 boxes with UM 18
3 Sealed dual driver boxes withe UM 18
Power: 3 I Nuke 6000 DSP amps and 3 I Nuke 3000 DSP amps

Tactile Feedback FX 8 Aura Pro Transducers

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post #3380 of 3383 Unread Today, 07:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by derrickdj1 View Post
Dom, this is what I get for a ULF card : SI=1 UM18=1.1

Room Size: 4300

Number of subs 8

Type: 6 Sealed (3 dual boxes) and 2 Vented boxes

10 Hz, 12.5 Hz, 16 Hz, 20 Hz
SI Equivalent: 6.6, 6.6, 14.6, and 12.6
ULF Score: 652, 652, 295, and 341
Groundplane SPL: 105.6, 109.1, 121.1, and 126.2
Stars : 4.5, 4.5, 5, and 5
Reference Estimate: Above Ref at 16 and 20 Hz
Subwooferage 2 Vented subs in Chase VS 18.1 boxes with UM 18
3 Sealed dual driver boxes withe UM 18
Power: 3 I Nuke 6000 DSP amps and 3 I Nuke 3000 DSP amps

Tactile Feedback FX 8 Aura Pro Transducers
I must have had your score wrong on the original. I only had you down for 2 18.2s with UM18s, but you have 3 18.3s with UM18s, for a total of 6 UM18s in sealed enclosures?

You also have 2 Vented 18.1s with UM18s?

Last time I had you down for 5300 cubes, was that incorrect and should have been 4300 cubes?
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post #3381 of 3383 Unread Today, 08:05 PM
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Dom, the last time I did have only two dual cab subs and the room was 5300 cu ft. I had a contractor add some walls and built another sub. I tried the Dayton amps for the shakers but, they would get hot and shut down during movies. So, I replaced them with an I Nuke 3000 DSP amp and have been problem free. This is the reason that I needed a new ULF card
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post #3382 of 3383 Unread Today, 08:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Dom, the last time I did have only two dual cab subs and the room was 5300 cu ft. I had a contractor add some walls and built another sub. I tried the Dayton amps for the shakers but, they would get hot and shut down during movies. So, I replaced them with an I Nuke 3000 DSP amp and have been problem free. This is the reason that I needed a new ULF card
Wow! You've made some serious upgrades! Congrats!

Here you go...



FYI, reducing your cubic feet from 5300 to 4300 was equivalent to adding 2 more UM18 sealed subs.

Nice job derrickdj1...you've come a long way from your original Chase subs! How's the signal chain? Are you 5hz club material?
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post #3383 of 3383 Unread Today, 10:20 PM
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Thanks. No, I will not be joining the signal digit culb, lol. I think, I have enough with the shakers. The cost of making the room smaller was a bit more that adding two UM 18 but, worth it. I did want to build another sub at the end of summer but, I will put that on hold. This thread has be very helpful in the development of my HT.

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