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post #3421 of 3611 Old 07-05-2015, 07:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dominguez1 View Post
Going through this thread looking for updated ULF scores and ran across this.

How did this end up for you?
Still in progress.
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post #3422 of 3611 Old 07-05-2015, 07:54 PM
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Originally Posted by dominguez1 View Post
Calc and updates now available on Post 1 and 2. Edited post above as well.
Nicely Done. Just a reminder that my room size is less than 1400 Cuft counting in a more exact measurement and 36 cubes of sub array. Since I like an even number just rounded up to 1400 if you would.

Wha....wait...where'd my 5hz card go. My 5hz card was revoked!? Your telling me the MiniDSP limited 123db 6hz candle trick means nothing!? Then you give it to Scotty!? That is outRAGEOUS!

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post #3423 of 3611 Old 07-05-2015, 08:01 PM
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post #3424 of 3611 Old 07-05-2015, 08:13 PM
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Haha! Suck it.

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post #3425 of 3611 Old 07-05-2015, 09:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by coolrda View Post
Nicely Done. Just a reminder that my room size is less than 1400 Cuft counting in a more exact measurement and 36 cubes of sub array. Since I like an even number just rounded up to 1400 if you would.

Wha....wait...where'd my 5hz card go. My 5hz card was revoked!? Your telling me the MiniDSP limited 123db 6hz candle trick means nothing!? Then you give it to Scotty!? That is outRAGEOUS!
I've revoked your 5hz card as you are still trying to understand how to optimize tactile feedback....Thats so a 10hz mentality. Clearly, everyone that has a 5hz card understands this...the good news is that we'll wait for you as you catch up. Keep plugging away...it will come to you one day and only then can you be among the 5hz greats..............

Or it could be a case of ID10T syndrome of the OP Exposure to constant ulf will have that effect as well
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post #3426 of 3611 Old 07-05-2015, 11:04 PM
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Hey Dom, when you get a chance can you update my score? A while back I got a nearfield sealed SI HT 18 right behind my main LP seat. Definitely one of the better upgrades I've made to the room.

thanks!
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post #3427 of 3611 Old 07-05-2015, 11:33 PM
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Originally Posted by dominguez1 View Post
I've revoked your 5hz card as you are still trying to understand how to optimize tactile feedback....Thats so a 10hz mentality. Clearly, everyone that has a 5hz card understands this...the good news is that we'll wait for you as you catch up. Keep plugging away...it will come to you one day and only then can you be among the 5hz greats..............

Or it could be a case of ID10T syndrome of the OP Exposure to constant ulf will have that effect as well
Ha, ULF is the new microwave. I knew it was to good to be true.

WOW. That was quite the furious few days but now that its over and up and running, I'll post more about the PSD equation. It was so good to have Okv's input and explanation's. He does a good job of explaining a very complex subject and puts it in easy to understand terms with no fluffy words. Good guy to bounce stuff off.

After reading back through the first page you NAILED it. All your thoughts and theories are now being proven, stuff I wouldn't even have thought of to ask or contemplate in the first place. Kudos, Bro. You have opened eyes and educated audiophile/videophiles the world over. Thanks for the hard work. This is your train man and I'm enjoying the ride. For me, easily a Top 5 Best Thread of all time on any AV website. Enough mushy stuff.

Ok I started reading though the posts from the last couple page and I missed a lot of graph requests, questions and other stuff. Worked straight through holiday weekends, 10 hour days, and trying to post on an iPhone while working in the 100+ degree heat is a challenge to say the least. So I'll get to those. Hey man, I got it out a week early, how often does that happen.
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post #3428 of 3611 Old 07-06-2015, 01:52 PM
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Originally Posted by dominguez1 View Post
@Okv , interested to hear your thoughts on Power Spectral Density (PSD)? Do you have an interpretation here?
Assume you mean PSD-charts presented for the vibration measurements.

It is always nice to have a presentation that shows response as a function of frequency.
But to make sense they must compare to something - a known physical measure, or simply a previous measurement.

My audio blog at kvalsvoll.blogspot.com - from simple set-up guides and tips to investigations on audio related issues.
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post #3429 of 3611 Old 07-06-2015, 02:01 PM
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Originally Posted by dominguez1 View Post
...
Seriously though...I feel this is the primary reason why some HTs can be "Meh", while others "WTF" given the similar dimensions and subwoofage (ULF Score). Combine this with your main speakers, and a system dialed in for TR compared to the same system that is not, will be worlds different. The uneducated will walk away thinking it's the subs and speakers, whereas in reality it is just a setup issue.
...
This is the important part.

Try listening to a 20Hz sine on headphones.
Can you hear it - yes, may be, but it doesn't necessarily give a pleasant experience, it is just pressure on the ears, and when you turn up the volume it very soon gets just annoying.

On speakers with tactile feel added, it's a different world.

My audio blog at kvalsvoll.blogspot.com - from simple set-up guides and tips to investigations on audio related issues.
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post #3430 of 3611 Old 07-06-2015, 04:56 PM
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I'm sure that whatever 5hz that N8DOGG has, is still louder than most of ours, so I still think he is the overall ULF leader...
he has 14 premium 18's and two of them in Horns.
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post #3431 of 3611 Old 07-06-2015, 05:02 PM
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Originally Posted by coolrda View Post
But all of that data was needed to diagnose the problem and come up with a solution, and, at least for me, to understand just what was going on. This may be fringe now, but the multi driver LF and ULF systems are here, and more and more enthusiasts are going this route, with front and rear subs or arrays. We want all the sound and tactile thats in the source. Thats what the Sound Engineer/Mixer intended. There shouldn't be compromise, nothing less than max performance. Clearly the old ways of sub setup don't work with front rear arrays. You stated this several times in the past that time alignment is a disaster. I politely dismissed that, as Omnimic clearly showed a max 6db gain over all frequency by time alignment, clearly and so i set it according to the current protocol, with disastrous results. You were right, time alignment is a DISASTER. I was doing it by the book. When it comes to MASS (multi array sub systems (hey I just came up with that)), that book needs to be thrown out and a new one written. Sound Intensity, PSD, Acceleration, Velocity, PVG and on and on. Mind Boggling for sure, the calcs and formulas are nuts in written form, but the picture is getting clearer.
Thanks for your work on this.

I first became interested in something similar when I found that stereo subwoofers in my system sounded better than mixing them to mono. I believe that the combining of signals electrically can cancel some of the experience due to being "out of phase from a tactile response standpoint." Bob Katz is a strong advocate of stereo bass and mentions several reasons for it in his book Mastering Audio: The Art and Science. I've had the chance the past few years to play with some multi-channel system and really feel that multi-channel bass, vs mono bass, provides the best tactile feel. I started a thread, If there is no "stereo" bass, then why use mono?, to discuss regarding stereo bass but it didn't get any traction.

Paul Hales of Pro Audio Technology is a big proponent of full range speakers for home theater. You can watch/listen to the Home Theater Geeks interview from June 24, 2013. At 54:00 he starts discussing what he doesn't like about the bass managed to multiple subwoofers. He is coming to the same conclusion as you, but without the data.

James D. Johnston has done some work on this in the past. A few years ago he said, "Are those Omni mic measurements? The idea of cancelling something in the pressure domain has interesting implications for the velocity domain, which is 3/4 of the soundfield information, give or take." He (as jj_0001), Todd Welti, Earl Geddes and others discuss "spatial bass" in the thread Spatial Bass-Is it real or not. I think some of what he discusses is pertinent here.
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post #3432 of 3611 Old 07-06-2015, 05:11 PM
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Your Home Theater ULF Score

Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post
Hey Dom, when you get a chance can you update my score? A while back I got a nearfield sealed SI HT 18 right behind my main LP seat. Definitely one of the better upgrades I've made to the room.



thanks!

Yes, me too - I have also upgraded by adding a dual-opposed pair of hs24 in my room, so I probably have a little score change.

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post #3433 of 3611 Old 07-06-2015, 06:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coolrda View Post
Ha, ULF is the new microwave. I knew it was to good to be true.

WOW. That was quite the furious few days but now that its over and up and running, I'll post more about the PSD equation. It was so good to have Okv's input and explanation's. He does a good job of explaining a very complex subject and puts it in easy to understand terms with no fluffy words. Good guy to bounce stuff off.

After reading back through the first page you NAILED it. All your thoughts and theories are now being proven, stuff I wouldn't even have thought of to ask or contemplate in the first place. Kudos, Bro. You have opened eyes and educated audiophile/videophiles the world over. Thanks for the hard work. This is your train man and I'm enjoying the ride. For me, easily a Top 5 Best Thread of all time on any AV website. Enough mushy stuff.

Ok I started reading though the posts from the last couple page and I missed a lot of graph requests, questions and other stuff. Worked straight through holiday weekends, 10 hour days, and trying to post on an iPhone while working in the 100+ degree heat is a challenge to say the least. So I'll get to those. Hey man, I got it out a week early, how often does that happen.
Dude...your sig is freakin' awesome! I really LOL'd on that one!

Appreciate the kind words...it's folks like yourself and others that can help take it to the next level. Hard to advance a hypothesis with a couple folks providing real world material...however, if we can make it simple enough to understand and test, that's when we'll get critical mass.

Your findings with VibSensor are actually very significant, and has me challenging some of my original ideas.

You've essentially demonstrated that different sub designs can produce different tactile feedback with your latest tests. This is similar to my ported vs sealed test in Post 5, where I found that my ported subs had more tactile feedback then my sealed 21in driver.

But with the VibSensor, you've changed the game with my thinking on that...I was essentially only considering one axis with the Vibration Meter app...you've clearly showed that some sub design can potentially excite other axes, in this case the Y axis. That is a HUGE discovery, and really counter intuitive! I'm still scratching my head on that!

Looking back at my ported vs sealed test, I'm starting to question the scope of the test. I only tested a 15hz sine wave for the comparison. At 15hz, the FV produced more shake...but what happens at the other frequencies??? My assumption in that test was if a sub produced more tactile shake at one frequency, it's likely to produce it at other frequencies (in this case around tune) given my prior belief that only 1 axis is the primary driver for shaking. However, given your new findings with your DO subs and considering that shaking occurs in 3 dimensions, the sealed 21in driver could potentially produce more shaking at different frequencies, and potentially on different axes.

What's is the optimal mix of shake? Does it subjectively feel better if both Y and Z axes are excited? Does Sound Intensity sum with neighboring intensities? IOW, playing sine waves may not be the best way to understand your Tactile Response, because a complex signal could sum to being more visceral, depending on what axes are shaking???

These are questions that can only be answered if we have more data...thus the call out to fellow AVS'rs to contribute.

Regardless, the hypothesis that different subs design can impact the soundfield differently, and thus impact tactile feedback differently, seems to be holding true.

Can someone please purchase a Microflown Sound Intensity Meter?

Last edited by dominguez1; 07-06-2015 at 06:54 PM.
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post #3434 of 3611 Old 07-06-2015, 07:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Okv View Post
Assume you mean PSD-charts presented for the vibration measurements.

It is always nice to have a presentation that shows response as a function of frequency.
But to make sense they must compare to something - a known physical measure, or simply a previous measurement.
Yes, that is correct.

My question though was more about your own thoughts of PSD in general, not the charts. IOW, what does PSD measure?
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post #3435 of 3611 Old 07-06-2015, 07:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by BassThatHz View Post
I'm sure that whatever 5hz that N8DOGG has, is still louder than most of ours, so I still think he is the overall ULF leader...
he has 14 premium 18's and two of them in Horns.
Yup, I would agree. If @N8DOGG would only post his response to 5hz, so we could make it official!
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post #3436 of 3611 Old 07-06-2015, 08:57 PM
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Originally Posted by desertdome View Post
Thanks for your work on this.

I first became interested in something similar when I found that stereo subwoofers in my system sounded better than mixing them to mono. I believe that the combining of signals electrically can cancel some of the experience due to being "out of phase from a tactile response standpoint." Bob Katz is a strong advocate of stereo bass and mentions several reasons for it in his book Mastering Audio: The Art and Science. I've had the chance the past few years to play with some multi-channel system and really feel that multi-channel bass, vs mono bass, provides the best tactile feel. I started a thread, If there is no "stereo" bass, then why use mono?, to discuss regarding stereo bass but it didn't get any traction.

Paul Hales of Pro Audio Technology is a big proponent of full range speakers for home theater. You can watch/listen to the Home Theater Geeks interview from June 24, 2013. At 54:00 he starts discussing what he doesn't like about the bass managed to multiple subwoofers. He is coming to the same conclusion as you, but without the data.

James D. Johnston has done some work on this in the past. A few years ago he said, "Are those Omni mic measurements? The idea of cancelling something in the pressure domain has interesting implications for the velocity domain, which is 3/4 of the soundfield information, give or take." He (as jj_0001), Todd Welti, Earl Geddes and others discuss "spatial bass" in the thread Spatial Bass-Is it real or not. I think some of what he discusses is pertinent here.
I appreciate the thoughts. I subscribe to Wilkinson's podcast so I'll have another listen to that episode. I have a sweet tooth for speaker designers. I remember Michael Kelly grabbing hold and dragging us into his room to listen to his Speaker the Aerial 10T. I was giddy with the dynamics of the Jurassic Park DTS LD and still listen to my 7B's daily. He was so excited and exciting to listen too, that we watched all those same clips a dozen times. Sandy Gross is another. Dad and I both bought complete 5.1 DefTech systems from our local dealer on his visit. Thats a man that loves music and speakers. I started attending CES in 1996 and dragging my friends over in the yearly ritual. A lot of them have been dogs but there's some really cool ones as well where the most unbelievable things happen. First stop was always DTS in the nineties so we beeline for them and the demo was Alan Parsons-Air 5.1. What are you kidding me? So the DTS boys gave us the whole deal and we're listening in amazement and asking questions faster than they can answer, and the question was asked how its mixed and sounds so good and dynamic in 5.1. The DTS rep goes, "why don't you ask him how, he sitting right behind you." Holy CRAP! I'm talking to Alan Parsons. He starts in like he's just one of the fellas we've known forever. I couldn't tell you what he said the first ten minutes, I was blown away for days after that. Back to Sandy Gross. I wanted to get to his new speaker to check out and there was just to much to see so we get to his suite just as the last demo, literally the last few seconds of the demo, and then we see about fifty people, VIP's, well known reviewers and highend retailers, this was clearly a private demo. As the attendees disperse, we walk up front and he makes his way over and ask us what we thought of the demo. Oh, we just came in. He points to the chair, we sit down and that man gave us a private 45 min demo. His people were coming over reminding him of the dinner party but he kept on with us. Sandy freakin Gross. What an experience. These guys are like rockstars to me. Incredible. Great memories. Anyway I'll check those out as I'm a big fan of all those audio nuts.

Cinema 10 Max Build

Fat Man & Little Boy Build
No Raptors were harmed in the making of these subs


Grandbabies, my chance to make the same mistakes all over again.

Last edited by coolrda; 07-06-2015 at 10:28 PM.
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post #3437 of 3611 Old 07-06-2015, 10:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dominguez1 View Post
Dude...your sig is freakin' awesome! I really LOL'd on that one!

Appreciate the kind words...it's folks like yourself and others that can help take it to the next level. Hard to advance a hypothesis with a couple folks providing real world material...however, if we can make it simple enough to understand and test, that's when we'll get critical mass.

Your findings with VibSensor are actually very significant, and has me challenging some of my original ideas.

You've essentially demonstrated that different sub designs can produce different tactile feedback with your latest tests. This is similar to my ported vs sealed test in Post 5, where I found that my ported subs had more tactile feedback then my sealed 21in driver.

But with the VibSensor, you've changed the game with my thinking on that...I was essentially only considering one axis with the Vibration Meter app...you've clearly showed that some sub design can potentially excite other axes, in this case the Y axis. That is a HUGE discovery, and really counter intuitive! I'm still scratching my head on that!

Looking back at my ported vs sealed test, I'm starting to question the scope of the test. I only tested a 15hz sine wave for the comparison. At 15hz, the FV produced more shake...but what happens at the other frequencies??? My assumption in that test was if a sub produced more tactile shake at one frequency, it's likely to produce it at other frequencies (in this case around tune) given my prior belief that only 1 axis is the primary driver for shaking. However, given your new findings with your DO subs and considering that shaking occurs in 3 dimensions, the sealed 21in driver could potentially produce more shaking at different frequencies, and potentially on different axes.

What's is the optimal mix of shake? Does it subjectively feel better if both Y and Z axes are excited? Does Sound Intensity sum with neighboring intensities? IOW, playing sine waves may not be the best way to understand your Tactile Response, because a complex signal could sum to being more visceral, depending on what axes are shaking???

These are questions that can only be answered if we have more data...thus the call out to fellow AVS'rs to contribute.

Regardless, the hypothesis that different subs design can impact the soundfield differently, and thus impact tactile feedback differently, seems to be holding true.

Can someone please purchase a Microflown Sound Intensity Meter?
Oh its on like Donkey Kong. All great questions Dom and the answers will come.

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No Raptors were harmed in the making of these subs


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post #3438 of 3611 Old 07-06-2015, 10:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dominguez1 View Post
Yup, I would agree. If @N8DOGG would only post his response to 5hz, so we could make it official!
Will he be the first to pull a G? Yikes

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post #3439 of 3611 Old 07-06-2015, 10:18 PM
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I'm still here, Dom


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post #3440 of 3611 Old 07-06-2015, 10:47 PM
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Here is my current sweep at 16ft with minimal EQ.


Every doubling of distance away from 3ft is -6db; in a room it's a bit different... but roughly -14db.
So does that mean that I'm doing ~129db sweeps here? Probably... because the sealed LMS's were bottoming out, but the HzHorn was only at 1/5th excursion on this one.
There is a few more db left in the tank, but not too much more.
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post #3441 of 3611 Old 07-07-2015, 12:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BassThatHz View Post
Here is my current sweep at 16ft with minimal EQ.


Every doubling of distance away from 3ft is -6db; in a room it's a bit different... but roughly -14db.
So does that mean that I'm doing ~129db sweeps here? Probably... because the sealed LMS's were bottoming out, but the HzHorn was only at 1/5th excursion on this one.
There is a few more db left in the tank, but not too much more.
Explain please. What software are you using again? Can you do a 5db spaced compression sweep?

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post #3442 of 3611 Old 07-07-2015, 08:23 AM
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Fyi, will be posting a new calculator and ulf scores this afternoon. Let me know of any updates to your systems before then, and I will update your score.
Hi dom,

I've been playing with your ULF spreadsheet for the last couple days, as i've been trying to decide whether i want to go with sealed or ported subs for my 17.5' x 31.5' x 7.3' (~4100 cf) basement home theater. I was looking at PSA's offerings, and the numbers don't seem to jive. I can't imagine an S3000i would have less output at 12.5hz than a V1500, which is tuned to 16hz. The compression charts on PSA's site indicate higher values for the S3000 than you have listed (although i don't know if those are 2m-RMS, etc). Also, Tom said that dual V1500s would match a single V3600 at the low end, but you show a V3600 only being +1.5db at 12.5hz.

Please don't take this as criticism, as this ULF calc project is pretty awesome! Just thought i'd point out a few inconsistencies i ran across, hopefully that can improve your spreadsheet.

Still trying to decide if i should chase those <16hz frequencies, requiring a LOT of sealed, or be content with ported...

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post #3443 of 3611 Old 07-07-2015, 09:24 AM
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Originally Posted by BassThatHz View Post
I'm sure that whatever 5hz that N8DOGG has, is still louder than most of ours, so I still think he is the overall ULF leader...
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Yup, I would agree. If @N8DOGG would only post his response to 5hz, so we could make it official!
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post #3444 of 3611 Old 07-07-2015, 09:37 AM
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Originally Posted by coolrda View Post
Explain please. What software are you using again? Can you do a 5db spaced compression sweep?
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If I started the sweep at 10hz instead of DC, that might help reduce excursion.
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post #3445 of 3611 Old 07-07-2015, 10:22 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by saldog78 View Post
Hi dom,

I've been playing with your ULF spreadsheet for the last couple days, as i've been trying to decide whether i want to go with sealed or ported subs for my 17.5' x 31.5' x 7.3' (~4100 cf) basement home theater. I was looking at PSA's offerings, and the numbers don't seem to jive. I can't imagine an S3000i would have less output at 12.5hz than a V1500, which is tuned to 16hz. The compression charts on PSA's site indicate higher values for the S3000 than you have listed (although i don't know if those are 2m-RMS, etc). Also, Tom said that dual V1500s would match a single V3600 at the low end, but you show a V3600 only being +1.5db at 12.5hz.

Please don't take this as criticism, as this ULF calc project is pretty awesome! Just thought i'd point out a few inconsistencies i ran across, hopefully that can improve your spreadsheet.

Still trying to decide if i should chase those <16hz frequencies, requiring a LOT of sealed, or be content with ported...
Hmmm, doesn't seem right. I'll take a look.

No offense taken...this is the feedback it needs to ensure quality!
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post #3446 of 3611 Old 07-07-2015, 12:18 PM
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Yes, that is correct.

My question though was more about your own thoughts of PSD in general, not the charts. IOW, what does PSD measure?
I don't have any knowledge on this app, but I assume it presents vibration level in the frequency domain, similar to what REW does in the RTA.

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post #3447 of 3611 Old 07-07-2015, 03:24 PM
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VibSensor Tutorial #2

As I continue to add to this I will do so in short add-on’s like this to save on time and get the info out. I’ll have Dom link these to the bottom of post #3 . As those that have made these tutorial know, its extremely all consuming.

Here some additional details concerning the data view on VibSensor. Concentrating on the PSD and LogPSD it appears that on the PSD graphs, which displays the Linear PSD, the bins are of equal size and resolution in amplitude (vertical scale of the graph) as they are in the frequency scale, horizontal graph. In the frequency scale/domain we can scroll from left to right and zoom in to view all frequencies between 0.3hz-50hz. We don’t have that luxury in the amplitude domain. Plus we understand the frequency scale and how it allows us to pinpoint specific freqs. I don’t know what the amplitude scale means, i.e, 1e-01, 2e-13.



I thought I had a bead on it as 1e-01 is above 1e-02, but then 3.9e-06, etc, is thrown in to the mix. I know it relates to the G and m/s equation, but until i get an explanation, I’ll won’t use it. The LogPSD, on the other hand, has a very useful and understandable amplitude scale. It matches well with the vibration data.

To this point I’ve used primarily fixed frequency tones, sine waves, when testing. The question came up of can we use frequency sweeps, short and long. With Omnimic you have to use a very specific test track for each different function or the test is meaningless. So I came to the conclusion that sine sweeps won’t work. Well, thats wrong. Once again I fell back to Mic-based thinking as thats the comfort zone. This is a mechanical meter. It samples at 1/100 sec. and unlike a mic its actually resolves with more at lower frequencies as it takes and draws 100 sample points at 1hz., and decreases to 2 samples at 50hz. While all is resolved accurately you get smoother graphing down low. This meter will give you exacting data at 0.3hz. I have a .csv that shows EACH sample point in each of the three axis. I would love to see this in a spectrum display.

Here's a 1-60hz sweep .1 LFE track test run of my front subs only taken the first day I had VibSensor. It matches the Omnimic graph as only the front plane/array of subs are measured. This also shows the importance of making tons of runs. I forgot I had those runs. I didn't understand them at the time but now can pull them up and check out the history of test run and have the data available. Don't be intimidated. This is new to all of us. Test and post. Test and post. There's no SIM for this. We need the data to compile a database. You don't have to understand it to post it. For those decade and bin challenged heres some additional graphics on the PSD graph, in all three axis, displayed logarithmically in both the frequency and amplitude domains.



I started looking at the numerical data more. I think RMS Vibration is the one most here if they use this will go to. I believe this is the SPL reading of the Accelerometer test world. When all the data and axis and vibration and PSD is calc, its spits out this number and thats seems to be the NUMBER. That will be ultimately how we rate a given sub and these three axis rms number will be combined to one final number that tells us a subs tactile power response rating. So it goes like this in the future, Ricci has a Particle Velocity meter and now measure the Tactile Power on each sub. Now we see the DNA of each particular sub. I thought of that last night but Dom used that same word to describe it two years ago. I think now it could very well be true that different sub designs each have a unique tactile fingerprint. Back to DB testing. So now Josh does all his standardize testing and new cutting edge testing that spits out the SPL and TPR (tactile power response) which all gets calculated into one final number, lets call it the Crush Factor. One sub may get the nod SPL-wise, another by way of TPR, but its all about the CF. And I’m sure the DSP will have an sensor that we place in at the MLP with PV tech in it, setting the subs up and making sure we don’t screw things up. We could have a PV meter in our phones in a couple years or sooner if they wanted it. I can see it now, you walk into Bestbuy/Magnolia and they start in about the new Y-axis subs and why their the greatest thing ever. So when your doing your test runs do pay attention to the RMS vibration as it a quick summation of whats going on. And the raw peak can help with peak hold output if needed.

Hard surface measurements. To this point all measurements taken by VibSensor have been by simply laying on a seat/s or surface. When scientific grade measurements are needed, especially hard surface measurements (like different sub cabs), you must use a mount. Its really the best way to get consistent, repeatable numbers. The RAM one is excellent and its available on Amazon.











I want to mention is the VibSensor interface. It a great tool. But it would be great to have an app using VibSensor’s computational prowess in an app specifically designed for us. Heres an example of what I mean. We could upload pics of our system. How about all the data runs being uploaded for analysis. How about a private remote GTG with hundreds in attendance from around the globe. While we’re not their in person to compare in person,we see the ticker tape displaying all the realtime numbers. Possibilities are endless. Anyway to anyone with the expertise to pull that off, I’d gladly pay for that app. Heres some pics of the Dynolicious app I referenced at the beginning. It started out with some basic app functions (original Dynolicious) but now turned into a graphic beast (Dynolicious Fusion) that now costs $20, Sure would be nice and a extremely valuable tool that everyone has in common.

Pics of Dynolicious Fusion for comparison only. I got this app the same time started this thread and thats what started me down this road to a another way to test out subs and rooms.











No cheating. It knows.




You can see the possibilities here. Any SDKer's here.

Lastly, does anyone have Mathworks Matlab capability and experience. VibSensor can email huge .csv and .mat extension files if someone knows how that all works. I dabbled in that enough to know I’m not touching that with a ten foot pole. Someone thats sharp with an engineering background would be a huge help too work with these data and spectrum files. Tutorial #3 I’ll explore more of the different types of tests signal and introduce demo clips to run, multiple measurement placement and comparing multiple measurement platforms used together on shared test runs and some crazy way over limit testing just to see how far you can push this meter.

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Last edited by coolrda; 07-07-2015 at 03:28 PM.
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post #3448 of 3611 Old 07-07-2015, 03:27 PM
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Dom, can you stick this to post #3 please.

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post #3449 of 3611 Old 07-07-2015, 04:06 PM
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The two PSD views have the same scales, just one is linear and the other is log. The unit is m^2/s^3 in both cases which appears to be a standard unit for this (w/kg/Hz being another). There is some discussion in http://www.scienceforums.net/topic/4...-second-cubed/ which describes this for as a unit of jerk and as the next step on in the velocity-acceleration-jerk chain.

The app just switches between scientific notation and normal numbers.

1e+01 = 1x10^1 = 10
1e+00 = 1x10^0 = 1
1e-01 = 1x10^-1 = 0.1

and so on

The only difference is in the scale not the unit or values.

What analysis are you looking for exactly and how big are the files? I don't do Matlab BTW but there might be other options depending on what you are after.
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post #3450 of 3611 Old 07-07-2015, 04:12 PM
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1e-X is a shorthand for scientific notation. The way you learned in high school was 1x10^x So for example 1x10^-7 ("one times ten to the negative seventh power") would be 1 with six zeroes in front of it - the decimal has been relocated seven spots. So from the chart, 1e-1 means 0.1 1e-2 means one tenth of that: 0.01. 1e-7 means the decimal place is 7 spots form the zero: 0.0000001 (3ll3d00d beat me to it)
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