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post #3631 of 3656 Old 07-29-2015, 11:04 PM
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Scott, phenomenal. Thats a lot of data. I'll chew on that tomorrow as that's gonna take some time to take it all in. Two quick thoughts. The sub riser is insane, I'm giving that some serious thought. May have to get me one of those. Secondly, theres that ugly 15hz null when your running the fronts alone. Nicely done!

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post #3632 of 3656 Old 07-30-2015, 08:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post
Frequency and tactile response data from my HT room as of 7/29/2015

Room Dimensions:

~1,900cuft
10ft ceiling


Subwoofer system:
8x - SI HT18 sealed four 8cuft dual opposed
4x - SS RLp18 sealed two 8cuft dual opposed
2x - SS RLp18 sealed 12cuft subwoofer riser
6x - JBL 2226J sealed 1.5cuft each


Bass Management:
80hz x-over all speakers (7.1 + front heights)
120hz LPF on LFE channel
Audyssey XT engaged
Some additional PEQ through Behringer DCX2496
Sub Riser uses Subwoofer 2 output for separate volume control


Frequency Response: (1/6th Octave Smoothing)
All Subs:
Spoiler!


Sub Riser only:
Spoiler!


All Subs + Sub Riser only:
Spoiler!
I like the way Scott doc'd his room, all the vitals in the shortest form possible.

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post #3633 of 3656 Old 07-30-2015, 08:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdome View Post
I just got some interesting results (at least to me) with VibSensor. This is my new center speaker playing EOT by itself at the listening position with the volume at -21.5 dB Reference Level for all the other speakers. I'm only playing the center channel, too. This does not include the LFE channel.

I'm gone the next 3 days and may not have a chance to respond.

Thats is nuts. And thats just your center. You guys with suspended floors are killing me. Thats not even fair. My Dads HT is the same. He's got crazy TR with two 21 year old Velodyne 10's. He's always been on suspended floor first with a second story loft HT and now with crawl spaced home.

This is subjective, but if I had to guess I'd say my riser, the way I built it, probably gives me a TR increase of 4-10x over concrete. But DD and SS have 4-6x my TR and thats measured response, not subjective.

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post #3634 of 3656 Old 07-31-2015, 09:17 AM
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Haha! So much data, I killed the thread.

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post #3635 of 3656 Old 07-31-2015, 09:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post
Haha! So much data, I killed the thread.
Please standby for reboot.

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post #3636 of 3656 Old 07-31-2015, 10:58 PM
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Well, there's a new grand baby added to the litter. Thats very cool. Little did I know with the false alarm a few nights ago that I'd be a patient at the same hospital the next day. At work the next day, I had a nasty slip and fall on a negligent property owners concrete slab. Nice crunchy landing. Lets just say the tactile response of breaking ribs is not something I want to experience again. Of all the falls and concussions and broken bones and six surgeries I've had, this is the most painful. This sucks. Hence the Reboot. Anyway, looks like i'll have some time to spend here over the next month or so, but I can't recommend taking this route.

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post #3637 of 3656 Old 08-01-2015, 12:22 PM
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There so much good data here that it will take 3-4 days to go over it all. This really is a textbook example, not only because its extreme with regard to tactile response, but you see the differences between different array placements in the same system, in this case, front rear and riser arrays. We can also see through comparison of the limited rooms we have so far, that front arrays across different rooms have these matching TR's, same with rear arrays and even with like kind sub systems. The sub's in the riser here are Infinite Baffle for the most part and have the same basic TR footprint in amplitude. The PSD is laid out in the frequency domain so maybe thats the correct terminology to use. You can see where this gets confusing. FR is one thing, TR another, but we are talking about the FR of the TR. What do you think? I think its appropriate and in the context of this discussion.

Continuing with Scott's data, this is really the perfect amount. We don't need graphs on each individual sub if you have 22 subs in your system. TMI. It will be a mess. We need to know what least amount of data needed is, to perform a proper and thorough analysis of the specific areas of TR we're concentrating on. Then we need to lay this out in a reasonable manner to start to form a consistent database. For instance, looking at Josh Ricci's work, He's taken the Human Element called Subjectivity out of the equation. Our personal tastes and emotion and experiences can begin to skew our thoughts and posts here. Heated debate can rage on. Thats good, its great because we really like, love, enjoy this hobby. I'm down with all of it as long as its respectful, and objective, which sometimes get lost. The thing is Data Bass sticks to the facts, and so regardless of how you think about Josh or his choices in his own system or what his posted thoughts are, the data is sound. So exacting that Dom can/has now built another data base using that data. So you have Ricci's extraction and databasing of the raw data, then Dom taking that database and expanding it to include the room and multi subs, then myself or more correctly, Us, just starting the TR equation journey to complete the equation into one simple formula. This will give us the answer, not what we think it could or should sound like or what we anticipate or expect the performance to be, but a sim based on hard data and factual testing experience. Why do I use Us and We, instead of Me, Myself and I. Simple, all the data accumulated so far. Where did it come from? I haven't been driving and flying around the country doing it. No this database comes from you guys, Us We. Sure I started this conversation with using VS based on Dom's previous tests at the beginning of the thread. I am the biggest proponent and wrote the Tutorial. But the database comes from all of us. Look at some important issues(15hz TR null)we have identified to this point with very few data sample. This takes us back to the first sentence of this paragraph. The is the perfect amount because it isolates each array. I think Scotty mentions he doesn't have the 15hz bug. But he does when you view his front array alone. Without the separation of each of the three array, thats never identified. Likewise with my least fav screen, the Tilt. What good is that? Of no real use, right? Thats what I thought. Thats wrong. Looking below we see there a change to the graphs density right there where the tilt changed in the Z axis.







His Note 3 was experiencing a bit of weightlessness, it appears, do to MEMs levitation for lack of a better term. Thats nuts. Maybe it was the internal or the whole PED but he could have hit another half a G possibly. I will ask Scott to throw a shirt, towel, blanket on the Note to Retest that again. Yikes. That illustrates the point of what I'm saying here. VS is a monster when it comes to detail. We need this in the design stage. It exacting. It will tell us the truth and will answer the big question of what do we need to get this response or experience in our build. For example, I want a 120db/.5G/5hz system. Ok, you take this many of these subs and put them there and build this TR enhancer and put this there and sit there. No more do I need 8 or 12 or 16 when the database says 66 are needed or 85 subs are needed, but if you do this, you can accomplish this with five subs. Now we can still put 66 subs in if wanted but we will know exactly what our SPL and TR or combined, our true power will be on paper. We expect that and have it with the other 5, 7, 11, 16 or how ever many main channels we have. We should expect the same of our subs. No more guess work. We've been shown how to do this now. I'm gonna redo mine this weekend.

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post #3638 of 3656 Old 08-02-2015, 08:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coolrda View Post
Well, there's a new grand baby added to the litter. Thats very cool. Little did I know with the false alarm a few nights ago that I'd be a patient at the same hospital the next day. At work the next day, I had a nasty slip and fall on a negligent property owners concrete slab. Nice crunchy landing. Lets just say the tactile response of breaking ribs is not something I want to experience again. Of all the falls and concussions and broken bones and six surgeries I've had, this is the most painful. This sucks. Hence the Reboot. Anyway, looks like i'll have some time to spend here over the next month or so, but I can't recommend taking this route.
OWWW!!! Hope you're doing okay, considering. Get better soon!

Quote:
Originally Posted by coolrda View Post
There so much good data here that it will take 3-4 days to go over it all. This really is a textbook example, not only because its extreme with regard to tactile response, but you see the differences between different array placements in the same system, in this case, front rear and riser arrays. We can also see through comparison of the limited rooms we have so far, that front arrays across different rooms have these matching TR's, same with rear arrays and even with like kind sub systems. The sub's in the riser here are Infinite Baffle for the most part and have the same basic TR footprint in amplitude. The PSD is laid out in the frequency domain so maybe thats the correct terminology to use. You can see where this gets confusing. FR is one thing, TR another, but we are talking about the FR of the TR. What do you think? I think its appropriate and in the context of this discussion.

Continuing with Scott's data, this is really the perfect amount. We don't need graphs on each individual sub if you have 22 subs in your system. TMI. It will be a mess. We need to know what least amount of data needed is, to perform a proper and thorough analysis of the specific areas of TR we're concentrating on. Then we need to lay this out in a reasonable manner to start to form a consistent database. For instance, looking at Josh Ricci's work, He's taken the Human Element called Subjectivity out of the equation. Our personal tastes and emotion and experiences can begin to skew our thoughts and posts here. Heated debate can rage on. Thats good, its great because we really like, love, enjoy this hobby. I'm down with all of it as long as its respectful, and objective, which sometimes get lost. The thing is Data Bass sticks to the facts, and so regardless of how you think about Josh or his choices in his own system or what his posted thoughts are, the data is sound. So exacting that Dom can/has now built another data base using that data. So you have Ricci's extraction and databasing of the raw data, then Dom taking that database and expanding it to include the room and multi subs, then myself or more correctly, Us, just starting the TR equation journey to complete the equation into one simple formula. This will give us the answer, not what we think it could or should sound like or what we anticipate or expect the performance to be, but a sim based on hard data and factual testing experience. Why do I use Us and We, instead of Me, Myself and I. Simple, all the data accumulated so far. Where did it come from? I haven't been driving and flying around the country doing it. No this database comes from you guys, Us We. Sure I started this conversation with using VS based on Dom's previous tests at the beginning of the thread. I am the biggest proponent and wrote the Tutorial. But the database comes from all of us. Look at some important issues(15hz TR null)we have identified to this point with very few data sample. This takes us back to the first sentence of this paragraph. The is the perfect amount because it isolates each array. I think Scotty mentions he doesn't have the 15hz bug. But he does when you view his front array alone. Without the separation of each of the three array, thats never identified. Likewise with my least fav screen, the Tilt. What good is that? Of no real use, right? Thats what I thought. Thats wrong. Looking below we see there a change to the graphs density right there where the tilt changed in the Z axis.

His Note 3 was experiencing a bit of weightlessness, it appears, do to MEMs levitation for lack of a better term. Thats nuts. Maybe it was the internal or the whole PED but he could have hit another half a G possibly. I will ask Scott to throw a shirt, towel, blanket on the Note to Retest that again. Yikes. That illustrates the point of what I'm saying here. VS is a monster when it comes to detail. We need this in the design stage. It exacting. It will tell us the truth and will answer the big question of what do we need to get this response or experience in our build. For example, I want a 120db/.5G/5hz system. Ok, you take this many of these subs and put them there and build this TR enhancer and put this there and sit there. No more do I need 8 or 12 or 16 when the database says 66 are needed or 85 subs are needed, but if you do this, you can accomplish this with five subs. Now we can still put 66 subs in if wanted but we will know exactly what our SPL and TR or combined, our true power will be on paper. We expect that and have it with the other 5, 7, 11, 16 or how ever many main channels we have. We should expect the same of our subs. No more guess work. We've been shown how to do this now. I'm gonna redo mine this weekend.

Wow. Fantastic post, Coolrda! There is indeed a lot of data to sift through. I agree that coming up with the right values to quantify our data in an objective way is going to be tricky. I think it will take some trail and error and lots of fiddling.

What I can do to help, please let me know. I never thought about it but I do have pretty much all the locations to test for SPL vs TR.

My Note3 did absolutely go airborne. It was jumping like crazy. I'll try this test the EoT scene again but with a heavy towel on the phone. Another thought is to try these separate system one after another with different volume levels to see the rate of change in all the areas that VibSensor does.

Another interesting test is if we can get some of the guys with Crowson's or Buttkicker's in on this. The BK's have a resonant frequency but I don't know if the Crowson does. I don't know if it has a response other than 'flat'? It shouldn't have a resonant frequency as it's an actuator and not an actual driver like the BK.
@Luke Kamp @carp

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post #3639 of 3656 Old Yesterday, 08:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post
OWWW!!! Hope you're doing okay, considering. Get better soon!
Thanks man.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post
Wow. Fantastic post, Coolrda! There is indeed a lot of data to sift through. I agree that coming up with the right values to quantify our data in an objective way is going to be tricky. I think it will take some trail and error and lots of fiddling.

What I can do to help, please let me know. I never thought about it but I do have pretty much all the locations to test for SPL vs TR.

My Note3 did absolutely go airborne. It was jumping like crazy. I'll try this test the EoT scene again but with a heavy towel on the phone. Another thought is to try these separate system one after another with different volume levels to see the rate of change in all the areas that VibSensor does.

Another interesting test is if we can get some of the guys with Crowson's or Buttkicker's in on this. The BK's have a resonant frequency but I don't know if the Crowson does. I don't know if it has a response other than 'flat'? It shouldn't have a resonant frequency as it's an actuator and not an actual driver like the BK.
@Luke Kamp @carp

This is fun and will only get more interesting!!!
I appreciate your help and input a ton. It is fun and interesting! Speaking of EoT, I was looking back at all my tests with that over the last three months and could see the consistency of the 15hz dip. Then I found one I took saturday that looked different and matched the one from 3 months back, a graph that didn't have the 15hz TR null.

Max power



17db lower volume



Now look at LogPSD at 2x res right below the perspective Vibration graphs. I'll point it out if need be but I want people to get familiar with what their looking at. Can you see it? Ok, so it looks like 15hz comes on when volume is increased enough or close to max volume but in reality all peak center frequencies do the same. Whats really happening at 15 is the Y axis peaks at low volume and the X axis with volume increased. Now we still don't know the exact cause but I think its safe to say its not the room doing this.

Heres another interesting that stumped me but I understand now. Thats the relationship between the first two graphs, the PSD's and the last three graphs, the G's. What was confusing me is the graphs scaling. An analogy though not a perfect one, is to look at the difference of changing the DB scales on REW or Omnimic. If we view our FR, frequency response in a 10db scale it looks good and flat, but looking at 5db or 1db and its another story. Or, look at our FR with one octave smoothing vs no smoothing. Different response all together right? The thought crosses our mind, Are we looking at the same system? Thats the difference between the G and the PSD graphs. The G graphs may show little peak difference but with the PSD graphs it greatly exaggerated even. They both paint the same picture, but from a different perspective and we need all five perspectives as has been proved already.

One more tidbit. I mentioned that I thought room gain does little or nothing for TR and that TR is tied to your subs native response(Sealed, vented, etc). I think this graph pretty(follow peaks at 10-15-20) much shows that to be the case. My system FR is flat with room gain but we see a 24 line or db drop from 20hz to 10hz. While I have good TR down to 5hz its clearly not close to what 20hz is.




Ae Scott mentioned, we need someone with any type of TT to help us out here. I have 4 Aura Pro's that I haven't used in years but I'd have to mount and wire them.

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post #3640 of 3656 Old Yesterday, 09:16 AM
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I also started graphing movie clips to see how they would work out.

Here's, Oz the Great and Powerful






and Jupiter Ascending.






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post #3641 of 3656 Old Yesterday, 02:14 PM
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Now look at LogPSD at 2x res right below the perspective Vibration graphs. I'll point it out if need be but I want people to get familiar with what their looking at. Can you see it? Ok, so it looks like 15hz comes on when volume is increased enough or close to max volume but in reality all peak center frequencies do the same. Whats really happening at 15 is the Y axis communities at low volume and the X axis with volume increased. Now we still don't know the exact cause but I think its safe to say its not the room doing this.
There is what looks like an auto correct fail in the above which makes it hard to know exactly what you mean, i.e. whats really happening at 15 is the Y axis communities at low volume and the X axis with volume increased. Probably it will be obvious when you translate communities for me

There is a fundamental difference between those two scenes though, namely that the response has not scaled linearly by frequency. You could do something like -18/-12/-6/0 runs and then create a compression (or expansion in this case) view by graphing the delta between each response.

I think you also have to consider the device (and the way it is mounted) at this point too, does it have a linear response under load? For example I think Scott commented earlier that his response goes off the chart at one point because the device was being agitated so vigorously, this is an example of a source of non linearity that you have to eliminate before you can conclude anything.

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Heres another interesting that stumped me but I understand now. Thats the relationship between the first two graphs, the PSD's and the last three graphs, the G's. What was confusing me is the graphs scaling. An analogy though not a perfect one, is to look at the difference of changing the DB scales on REW or Omnimic. If we view our FR, frequency response in a 10db scale it looks good and flat, but looking at 5db or 1db and its another story. Or, look at our FR with one octave smoothing vs no smoothing. Different response all together right? The thought crosses our mind, Are we looking at the same system? Thats the difference between the G and the PSD graphs. The G graphs may show little peak difference but with the PSD graphs it greatly exaggerated even. They both paint the same picture, but from a different perspective and we need all five perspectives as has been proved already.
I don't think that analogy is valid at all tbh. The vibration view is a time series view of amplitude against time, PSD is showing the *power* contributed by each frequency summed across the entire time period. It's not a question of zooming in on anything, it's a quite different view on the data. The EoT scene is a special case here as it is near enough a set of single tones (ignoring harmonics).

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One more tidbit. I mentioned that I thought room gain does little or nothing for TR and that TR is tied to your subs native response(Sealed, vented, etc). I think this graph pretty(follow peaks at 10-15-20) much shows that to be the case. My system FR is flat with room gain but we see a 24 line or db drop from 20hz to 10hz. While I have good TR down to 5hz its clearly not close to what 20hz is.
I do think this sort of comparison is quite suspect until the response of the device itself is known. If I think back ~10yrs then we were all using RS SPL meters and debating which cal file was the right one to use and what the unit to unit variation was like. Now people are using individually calibrated mics that go down to 5Hz but we can still have problems accurately measuring signal chain roll off. Do we have any data on the linearity of these units by frequency? Does the housing (case) have an impact? Are there differences between Android and iOS in how the data is collected? I think we have to recognise that these devices are designed for coarser events like footfall for analysing a run so it would not be surprising if they had a non linear response at certain frequencies. I have no idea if they do, just pointing out the obvious (potential) problem with some of this data.

edit: having said that, a random 10 minute google throws up a doc like https://www.endevco.com/news/archive...9_09/TP328.pdf which shows accelerometers can have axis specific sensitivity, resonant peaks and LF rolloff (sounds familiar!) or http://freevibrationanalysis.blogspo...tion_5714.html (same sort of detail). The common presence of a high pass filter in data concerning accelerometers means that ULF TR analysis may well have exactly the same problem as ULF FR analysis.

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post #3642 of 3656 Old Yesterday, 05:13 PM
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I fixed the communities spelling blunder. Peak was what i was looking for.

I wasn't trying to make a comparison of those two scenes, but just showing how they look and the time frame taken in.

I have thought about the mount and have done extensive testing between the mount and lying on it own with no change in data runs except when the phone bounced. I did the same with and without the case with negligible differences that remained constant. IOW, maybe .01 gain in G's without case on.

Though the vibration graphs are a different measurement than the PSD, they are related. When I raise the volume 1 db the amplitude on the LogPSD is raise one line and likewise 17db gain equals 17 lines of increase going from 1e-05 to almost 1e-03. Those gain directly match the vibration graph gain as well only a huge gain on the LogPSD scale only equals a small but equal consistent gain on the vibration graph. My point I was making is that if the exact digital copy like what DesertDome posted a few pages back was able to be played back and mirrored on the vibration scale, you would have a straight line in the LogPSD graph across the top of the peaks instead of the severe slope we see here. I believe that if we did a ground plane measurement like Ricci does that the TR would follow the Cab FR.

There many different types of accelerometers for sure. Heres the actual specs of the ones used here. Remember we discussed earlier that it doesn't matter if theres difference between Android and IOS because we are testing against ourselves here.
Iphone 6 & 6+ accelerometer

MEMS accelerometer

The test tones from 1hz to 45hz are dead on in the frequency domain. I've tested and verified this prior to suggesting we use this. Dom and I discussed this as well. Amplitude could be off though. All good points @3ll3d00d .

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post #3643 of 3656 Old Today, 10:17 AM
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Quote:
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I think you also have to consider the device (and the way it is mounted) at this point too, does it have a linear response under load? For example I think Scott commented earlier that his response goes off the chart at one point because the device was being agitated so vigorously, this is an example of a source of non linearity that you have to eliminate before you can conclude anything.
Max TR is only one of hundreds of different tests. He can test run at lower volume to get a truer TR number. We can run a compression sweep test as well to show linearity of TR as volume increases, as well as, differences. Or just secure it better.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3ll3d00d View Post
I do think this sort of comparison is quite suspect until the response of the device itself is known. If I think back ~10yrs then we were all using RS SPL meters and debating which cal file was the right one to use and what the unit to unit variation was like. Now people are using individually calibrated mics that go down to 5Hz but we can still have problems accurately measuring signal chain roll off. Do we have any data on the linearity of these units by frequency? Does the housing (case) have an impact? Are there differences between Android and iOS in how the data is collected? I think we have to recognise that these devices are designed for coarser events like footfall for analysing a run so it would not be surprising if they had a non linear response at certain frequencies. I have no idea if they do, just pointing out the obvious (potential) problem with some of this data.
These are valid points @3ll3d00d . I also wonder why my graphs look like a bold marker was used. So I'll spend some time today taken simultaneous runs and comparing. Granted they won't be in the exact same point source and tilt may change but I think it will tell us a lot about how different accelerometers meter this.

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post #3644 of 3656 Old Today, 10:31 AM
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Those look close enough for testing, imo.


Yes, I highly suggest we figure out a way to do both TR "compression" testing using a range of volume levels and also a reputable "fix" for jumping phones and tablets. I would not suggest that we hold them but maybe a heavy towel could keep it from moving while preventing the g-force range from being inhibited.
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This started out as a simple comparison test but found that we need a smooth flat surface for the bigger PED's. Look at the differences between armrests on the same chair. This is the EoT Intro.
First I took these simultaneously. Theres a big difference between devices.



So I switched phone and pad to opposite arm and reran the test and its the armrests that are different not the devices.



Heres the vitals for comparison. I really like the resolution of the VS data on the iPad Air.

Left Armrest with both devices. I placed the appropriated graphs together for comparisons.







Right Armrest.






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post #3646 of 3656 Old Today, 07:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post
Those look close enough for testing, imo.


Yes, I highly suggest we figure out a way to do both TR "compression" testing using a range of volume levels and also a reputable "fix" for jumping phones and tablets. I would not suggest that we hold them but maybe a heavy towel could keep it from moving while preventing the g-force range from being inhibited.
The "Comp" testing shouldn't be a problem. Probably gonna have to use the .1 LFE tracks on the Soho54 test dvd. Their pretty brutal. Their a 10 sec on/3 sec rest so 10/3/10/3/10 from 1-20hz. You do that at max MV and you'll heat stuff up pretty quick. My EP's went from cold to frying on a max 1-10 run with a severe overheated electronics smell. Gotta be careful. Probably should at start at 5 or 6hz. Found some individual tones I ran from that DVDs 3 months ago. I'll posts those later.

The extreme TR testing could be more difficult. I'd use my mount but have to figure out a way since its suction cup mount. Maybe cup holder but that's not ideal. If we can use a mount it will be even more accurate and consistent. I was thinking it could dampen it but it may raise the numbers since there's no lost energy. See if the towel kills your vibration numbers. If it does at the same MV we'll have to figure something out.

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post #3647 of 3656 Old Today, 08:04 PM
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Just did several tests at three levels with and without a towel on the phone to "help".

Lotta data coming. Will probably take an hour or so to upload everything and list it. Stay tuned.

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EoT -10dB (no towel)

PSD:
Spoiler!


Log PSD:
Spoiler!


Vibration:
Spoiler!


tilt:
Spoiler!


Raw:
Spoiler!
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post #3649 of 3656 Old Today, 08:37 PM
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EoT -10dB (with towel)

PSD:
Spoiler!


Log PSD:
Spoiler!


Vibration:
Spoiler!


Tilt:
Spoiler!


Raw:
Spoiler!
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

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My Dual 18" LLT subs 120dB down to 10hz ***FOR SALE***

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post #3650 of 3656 Old Today, 08:37 PM
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EoT -13dB (no towel)

PSD:
Spoiler!


Log PSD:
Spoiler!


Vibration:
Spoiler!


Tilt:
Spoiler!


Raw:
Spoiler!
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

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ID:	869794  


My Dual 18" LLT subs 120dB down to 10hz ***FOR SALE***

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EoT -13dB (with towel)

PSD:
Spoiler!


Log PSD:
Spoiler!


Vibration:
Spoiler!


Tilt:
Spoiler!


Raw:
Spoiler!
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

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ID:	869834  


My Dual 18" LLT subs 120dB down to 10hz ***FOR SALE***

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post #3652 of 3656 Old Today, 08:38 PM
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EoT -16dB (no towel)

PSD:
Spoiler!


Log PSD:
Spoiler!


Vibration:
Spoiler!


Tilt:
Spoiler!


Raw:
Spoiler!
Attached Thumbnails
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ID:	869874  


My Dual 18" LLT subs 120dB down to 10hz ***FOR SALE***

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post #3653 of 3656 Old Today, 08:38 PM
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EoT -16dB (with towel)

PSD:
Spoiler!


Log PSD:
Spoiler!


Vibration:
Spoiler!


Tilt:
Spoiler!


Raw:
Spoiler!
Attached Thumbnails
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ID:	869922  


My Dual 18" LLT subs 120dB down to 10hz ***FOR SALE***

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post #3654 of 3656 Old Today, 09:24 PM
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Whew! Okay...

So the long, short of it: I don't think the towel worked. It actually seemed to help transfer MORE energy to the device allowing it to hit the LIMIT even at the lowest level I tested at. The movement of the device did seem to move less but the dampening effect transferred more energy to the device.

All subs were on, no changes have been made to my response since the last test I did. While these are interesting results I believe this data is still invalid as many of them have clipped graphs. Another method of reducing this clipping must be found. Reducing the overall level helps.

Also of note, I am sitting on the couch with the device. My own weight could affect the data recorded.

We are learning a lot but still have more to figure out before this can be labeled as valid data. At least mine, anyway.

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post #3655 of 3656 Old Today, 09:44 PM
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Nice. All the LogPSD taken without the towel match and as well as those with the towel. Using the towel kills the 15hz output. No good. Looks like -16db is the spot for you going forward to get accurate measurements. When you get a chance make a run with front and rear subs together @-16db and -10db except the riser subs. Leave those off. That will give us a baseline for comparison with and without riser subs. Your set of tests before was with isolated fronts, rears and riser subs. Is the riser subs being equalized with Audyssey? I'm wondering if the riser subs should be run flat like they do Crowson's transducers?

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post #3656 of 3656 Old Today, 10:19 PM
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The link to Soho54 test DVD.

Soho54 DVD

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