Your Home Theater ULF Score - Page 141 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #4201 of 4337 Old 03-12-2016, 08:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post
How did you get your score card to look big? Every time I use paint it is tiny.
That program is OpenOffice on my Mac desktop, and it's a screen shot of the scorecard -

EDIT: Different screen shot - too large, and was blurry

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_____ _____ _____ _____ _____ _____ _____ _____ _____ _____ _____
Receiver : Denon x5200
Speakers : Martin Logan Motion 60XT/Motion 40s - HTD Level 2 Tower surrounds
Extra Speakers : Pioneer FS52s/BS22s - Infinity Primus 363s/163s - RBH R5Bi(2pair)/R5Ci
Subwoofer : Dual UM-18s
Born in 1995 and still continuing my HT journey
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post #4202 of 4337 Old 03-12-2016, 08:12 AM
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Yeah, I hit print screen and then when I paste to paint it is tiny. The settings have to be setup wrong.

Marantz 7702 Atmos
3 Inuke NU4-6000 amps for all speakers.
Speakers- 7 Behringer B215XL's, 4 212xl's for ceiling speakers.
Front subs 8 SI 18ht ported SLLT powered by Peavy IPR 7500
Rear subs 4 SI 18HT ported SLLT powered by Inuke 6000.
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post #4203 of 4337 Old 03-12-2016, 08:16 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bgtighe23 View Post
Hey Dom, MK, and Derrick -

TL;DR (and some laziness ) is that vibsensor thing a phone app?

I was asking because I haven't given much thought into it until now. I purchased 2 SI HT18s which will be powered by an iNuke 3kDSP to go along with my 2 UM-18s (6kDSP) which are already up front. The HT18s are going to be placed on each side of the LP so that makes each HT18 about 3 ft away. All sealed 4 cu. ft. cabs.

My room is about an 1150 - 1200 cu. ft. closed off room so I'd figure I would try to get more involved now (well, by next week) that I have a better score card.

Tracking from PE and UPS says all that extra stuff (SpeakOn, disconnects, etc.) should be on Tues, March 15th. Hopefully I can assemble the cabs after work a couple days out of the week and finish them on that weekend to have them up and running no later than Sunday the 20th.

I hate and love my small room....Thanks.

EDIT: Proposed new card - just the addition of the HT 18s (which adds about 6dB)
Nicely done...what was your score prior to the HT18 additions? I'm sure you're in for a HUGE difference, especially placing them nearfield.

The Vibsensor is on both the Android and iPhone platforms. Give it a whirl...

I will be adding VS results to the ULF Score. Check out the new format:

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post #4204 of 4337 Old 03-12-2016, 08:18 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post
Yeah, I hit print screen and then when I paste to paint it is tiny. The settings have to be setup wrong.
Copy and paste the ULF Score Card cells into paint, that should fix your problem...
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post #4205 of 4337 Old 03-12-2016, 08:41 AM
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I will try it out.

Marantz 7702 Atmos
3 Inuke NU4-6000 amps for all speakers.
Speakers- 7 Behringer B215XL's, 4 212xl's for ceiling speakers.
Front subs 8 SI 18ht ported SLLT powered by Peavy IPR 7500
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post #4206 of 4337 Old 03-12-2016, 08:44 AM
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This is what happens.
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Marantz 7702 Atmos
3 Inuke NU4-6000 amps for all speakers.
Speakers- 7 Behringer B215XL's, 4 212xl's for ceiling speakers.
Front subs 8 SI 18ht ported SLLT powered by Peavy IPR 7500
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post #4207 of 4337 Old 03-12-2016, 09:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dominguez1 View Post
Nicely done...what was your score prior to the HT18 additions? I'm sure you're in for a HUGE difference, especially placing them nearfield.

The Vibsensor is on both the Android and iPhone platforms. Give it a whirl...

I will be adding VS results to the ULF Score. Check out the new format:

Subtract about 6 dB from my scorecard and that's what it was with just the UM-18s. But since the new HT18s are going to be near field, I'm sure I'll get some extra tactile response.

Will the 5hz card now be included? I know that it's on a separate sheet currently, but it would be nice if its "all in one".

The new card looks nice. I'll take a swing with the app now with just the UM-18s and get some results posted. I'm sure adding near field 18s will make a huge difference.

EDIT: VibSensor app > setting > frequency range > high or low? Default was high, so I'd figure I would just ask.

Another Edit: Not now...

_____ _____ _____ _____ _____ _____ _____ _____ _____ _____ _____
Receiver : Denon x5200
Speakers : Martin Logan Motion 60XT/Motion 40s - HTD Level 2 Tower surrounds
Extra Speakers : Pioneer FS52s/BS22s - Infinity Primus 363s/163s - RBH R5Bi(2pair)/R5Ci
Subwoofer : Dual UM-18s
Born in 1995 and still continuing my HT journey

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post #4208 of 4337 Old 03-12-2016, 09:30 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post



This is what happens.
You have to size the 'white part' in paint (essentially get rid of it), so it's just the ULF card. Try that.

Also, if that doesn't work, try the snipping tool...if you have Windows, you should already have it. Make when you snip, the spreadsheet is at 100% zoom.
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post #4209 of 4337 Old 03-12-2016, 09:33 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bgtighe23 View Post
Subtract about 6 dB from my scorecard and that's what it was with just the UM-18s. But since the new HT18s are going to be near field, I'm sure I'll get some extra tactile response.

Will the 5hz card now be included? I know that it's on a separate sheet currently, but it would be nice if its "all in one".

The new card looks nice. I'll take a swing with the app now with just the UM-18s and get some results posted. I'm sure adding near field 18s will make a huge difference.

EDIT: VibSensor app > setting > frequency range > high or low? Default was high, so I'd figure I would just ask.

Another Edit: Not now...
The 5hz card is by invitation only . Why? You have to show your response to 5hz to get it.

Check out the Vibsensor thread...it will tell you how to use it, etc.

The VibSensor Accelerometer Test Thread
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post #4210 of 4337 Old 03-12-2016, 09:44 AM
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Read over the first couple of pages of the Vibsensor thread. This will help with setup and understanding.
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post #4211 of 4337 Old 03-12-2016, 09:54 AM
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Originally Posted by bgtighe23 View Post
EDIT: VibSensor app > setting > frequency range > high or low? Default was high, so I'd figure I would just ask.
Just to add. Yes high is correct. Low is for averaging when running a long test. Because we're limited to the small graphs, unless your using a tablet or in the case of @3ll3d00d , using a separate program with VS upload data file, it's best to keep all test runs under 30secs.
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post #4212 of 4337 Old 03-12-2016, 10:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dominguez1 View Post
The 5hz card is by invitation only . Why? You have to show your response to 5hz to get it.

Check out the Vibsensor thread...it will tell you how to use it, etc.

The VibSensor Accelerometer Test Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by derrickdj1 View Post
Read over the first couple of pages of the Vibsensor thread. This will help with setup and understanding.
Quote:
Originally Posted by coolrda View Post
Just to add. Yes high is correct. Low is for averaging when running a long test. Because we're limited to the small graphs, unless your using a tablet or in the case of @3ll3d00d , using a separate program with VS upload data file, it's best to keep all test runs under 30secs.
I appreciate all the responses. This guy Dom up here takin applications for the 5hz club... I'll be there...I'll be there...

Thanks.

_____ _____ _____ _____ _____ _____ _____ _____ _____ _____ _____
Receiver : Denon x5200
Speakers : Martin Logan Motion 60XT/Motion 40s - HTD Level 2 Tower surrounds
Extra Speakers : Pioneer FS52s/BS22s - Infinity Primus 363s/163s - RBH R5Bi(2pair)/R5Ci
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post #4213 of 4337 Old 03-12-2016, 01:21 PM
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Too bad mk doesn't have his dts or f20s still cause I'd love to see a comparison of port vs horn now.
A well tuned horn will have better impact across a wider frequency range, higher up in frequency, as well.

For a direct compare the horns would have to be tuned just as low as the ported, and that is easy to do on paper but the size will make it impractical, at least you would have to design something to build on location.
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post #4214 of 4337 Old 03-12-2016, 01:42 PM - Thread Starter
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@MKtheater ,

Can you play the 6hz helicopter scene that you love with the Vibsensor? Would be interesting to see what kind of results you get there.

@coolrda , any luck on the 5hz sample in your HT? Also need a 12.5hz sample to complete your ULF card.
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post #4215 of 4337 Old 03-12-2016, 01:53 PM
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My ported sub system is 248 cubes, the horn would be the size of my 1430 cubic ft room!
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post #4216 of 4337 Old 03-12-2016, 02:03 PM
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Can you play the 6hz helicopter scene that you love with the Vibsensor? Would be interesting to see what kind of results you get there.
What movie?

_____ _____ _____ _____ _____ _____ _____ _____ _____ _____ _____
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Extra Speakers : Pioneer FS52s/BS22s - Infinity Primus 363s/163s - RBH R5Bi(2pair)/R5Ci
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post #4217 of 4337 Old 03-12-2016, 02:47 PM - Thread Starter
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post #4218 of 4337 Old 03-12-2016, 06:41 PM
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When I get to my office computer tomorrow I will upload my vibsensor of the seat over from the middle closer to the ports of one of the back subs. It was over .5 g at 10hz and over 1g at 25hz or 20hz, I have to look. My friend came over to listen and he said it is night and day from the sealed to the SLLT. BTW, I would not give up the low end from my sealed for the increased TR without the low end with a higher tuned ported sub. I will run Lone Survivor tonight, I don't remember if I ever took a reading with the IB to compare.
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post #4219 of 4337 Old 03-12-2016, 09:20 PM
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Originally Posted by dominguez1 View Post
@coolrda , any luck on the 5hz sample in your HT? Also need a 12.5hz sample to complete your ULF card.
Should have been done but I got side-swiped by all the immersive audio threads. I'm refocused now. Here's the deal. I do have all those but soon as you mentioned the 5 & 12.5 it got me thinking that we need a complete test track suite made. I haven't had time to even check out @Okv 's new 7.1 test tracks which needs to be incorporated. Then I thought why stop at 1/3 oct when we might as well go 1/6 octave level matched -.01dbfs. Then, narrow band or wide and on and on. So, my thought is, instead of random, off the wall, throw everything in the pot, type testing, lets everyone put our heads together and come up with one awesome test suite. We need something all encompassing that thoroughly runs through a series of tests quickly. We have a good grasp of measuring FR&TR, so let's take the time so we don't waste more time later. For example, EOT served its purpose well, but it's a rising curve as frequency drops Nd there square waves, etc. We need legitimate test tracks with match levels and consistent duty cycles. We need sines and impulse. We need various sweeps as well and then a few short, well doc'd, movie demo's. Then make the files or iso available to everyone. The new scorecard with then be a major step forward. Now this scorecard will be even more valuable, during the HT design/layout stage, to troubleshoot rooms that aren't performing as expected and to test all types and classes of gear. We can hear you and MK describe the experience of vented and sealed but graphs are graphs. I know exactly the TR gain MK experienced between the two systems because I know what that gain feels like. That's my opinion. Whatcha think?
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post #4220 of 4337 Old 03-12-2016, 09:49 PM
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That BEQ scene of Transformers 2 starts at 30hz and goes down to 1hz with real content. I need to look up at data-bass what the digital signal is because mine has my frequency response involved or my room. I am completely starting over with my sound panels as I just made 10 4 inch panels and 4 6 inch panels which will be added to my 8 2 inch panels and 4 small 4 inch panels. I am going to treat all the first reflection points from all speakers including ceiling as I am curious if they all meet in the middle somewhere on the ceiling. The 6 inch will be open back corner traps which will absorb from both sides.
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post #4221 of 4337 Old 03-13-2016, 06:28 AM
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Here is the seat next to the MLP which I sit in when I have company, or seat number 2.





I will have to try this again because the phone was moving and settles in a creased which caused that lower 15hz portion.
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Marantz 7702 Atmos
3 Inuke NU4-6000 amps for all speakers.
Speakers- 7 Behringer B215XL's, 4 212xl's for ceiling speakers.
Front subs 8 SI 18ht ported SLLT powered by Peavy IPR 7500
Rear subs 4 SI 18HT ported SLLT powered by Inuke 6000.

Last edited by MKtheater; 03-13-2016 at 06:36 AM.
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post #4222 of 4337 Old 03-13-2016, 11:18 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by coolrda View Post
Should have been done but I got side-swiped by all the immersive audio threads. I'm refocused now. Here's the deal. I do have all those but soon as you mentioned the 5 & 12.5 it got me thinking that we need a complete test track suite made. I haven't had time to even check out @Okv 's new 7.1 test tracks which needs to be incorporated. Then I thought why stop at 1/3 oct when we might as well go 1/6 octave level matched -.01dbfs. Then, narrow band or wide and on and on. So, my thought is, instead of random, off the wall, throw everything in the pot, type testing, lets everyone put our heads together and come up with one awesome test suite. We need something all encompassing that thoroughly runs through a series of tests quickly. We have a good grasp of measuring FR&TR, so let's take the time so we don't waste more time later. For example, EOT served its purpose well, but it's a rising curve as frequency drops Nd there square waves, etc. We need legitimate test tracks with match levels and consistent duty cycles. We need sines and impulse. We need various sweeps as well and then a few short, well doc'd, movie demo's. Then make the files or iso available to everyone. The new scorecard with then be a major step forward. Now this scorecard will be even more valuable, during the HT design/layout stage, to troubleshoot rooms that aren't performing as expected and to test all types and classes of gear. We can hear you and MK describe the experience of vented and sealed but graphs are graphs. I know exactly the TR gain MK experienced between the two systems because I know what that gain feels like. That's my opinion. Whatcha think?
I like it, and am with you....but, we just have to keep in mind that the scorecard needs to remain simple to get more broad adoption. The ULF score was more about your systems capability, rather than what's really going on in-room. I do think the two would be fairly close (with in-room likely showing better performance). The ULF score assumes that you can optimize your room, FR, etc. to get the most out of it.

Adding the VS data is somewhat straying from the original principle as we're integrating the ULF score with actual measured results...but unfortunately, there is no other way to get this information without using VS. So ultimately, it will be a hybrid.

Having said that, Frequency Response, Speclab graph, and VibSensor would represent the pinnacle of information to really describe the experience you have in your room. That should be the norm when trying to optimize your system. The ULF card is more about showing you your systems minimum potential; FR, SL, and VS will give you the tools to optimize it all to meet and most likely exceed the ULF card.

Ultimately, I'm all for exactly what you described! Just need an easy way to pull out the 1/3 octave info to match up with the ULF card.
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post #4223 of 4337 Old 03-13-2016, 11:22 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post
Here is the seat next to the MLP which I sit in when I have company, or seat number 2.





I will have to try this again because the phone was moving and settles in a creased which caused that lower 15hz portion.


Damn...1G puts you in the "Violent" category...

Run the Lone Survivor clip! Curious to see what VS does with 5hz range.
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post #4224 of 4337 Old 03-14-2016, 03:36 AM
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Quote:
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No comparison but not really fair, the F20 dropped off at 15hz and I did not have enough DTS-10's. I have 12 ported 18s now but I do believe a giant 9hz tuned horn would be the best! Think of a GH but bigger and tuned to single digits so you don't lose that low end which creates pressure and that heavy or deep sense to the bass. Without it bass seems artificial to me, my shakers could shake the crap out of the seat and pull 1g on VS but it seemed unnatural compared to everything else on screen. I should hook them up again and try to dial them in so it adds but subtle. This is why Scott's riser is best because it is a shaker but adds the pressure and depth to the sound.

I'd like to see if there is a difference for enclosure types, wrt vibsensor, by testing the three types at the same spl at an easier to achieve 20hz.
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post #4225 of 4337 Old 03-14-2016, 07:05 AM
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Lone Survivor at reference and subs flat





Marantz 7702 Atmos
3 Inuke NU4-6000 amps for all speakers.
Speakers- 7 Behringer B215XL's, 4 212xl's for ceiling speakers.
Front subs 8 SI 18ht ported SLLT powered by Peavy IPR 7500
Rear subs 4 SI 18HT ported SLLT powered by Inuke 6000.
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post #4226 of 4337 Old 03-14-2016, 07:19 AM
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which sub should I add to my card if I am adding 2 si 18d4 each in a 4cu' sealed box?

JVC RS400 4K PJ | Denon x7200WA 7.2.4 ATMOS/DTS-X | Emotiva XPA-5 gen2 |Emotiva XPA-200 gen2 | PSA MT110 x 3 FL/C/FR | (4) VOLT 6 sidesurrounds/Back Surrounds | (4) VOLT 6 ATMOS | 1 - PSA XS30 | (2) DIY SI-HT18 sealed (2) DIY SI18 DS4 sealed| (2) inuke6000dp | Samsung K8500 4k UHD BDP | 16x11x7.5 sealed HT

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post #4227 of 4337 Old 03-14-2016, 07:22 AM
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which sub should I add to my card if I am adding 2 si 18d4 each in a 4cu' sealed box?

What? How about 2 Si!

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Speakers- 7 Behringer B215XL's, 4 212xl's for ceiling speakers.
Front subs 8 SI 18ht ported SLLT powered by Peavy IPR 7500
Rear subs 4 SI 18HT ported SLLT powered by Inuke 6000.
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post #4228 of 4337 Old 03-14-2016, 07:25 AM
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i cant find them in the calculator

JVC RS400 4K PJ | Denon x7200WA 7.2.4 ATMOS/DTS-X | Emotiva XPA-5 gen2 |Emotiva XPA-200 gen2 | PSA MT110 x 3 FL/C/FR | (4) VOLT 6 sidesurrounds/Back Surrounds | (4) VOLT 6 ATMOS | 1 - PSA XS30 | (2) DIY SI-HT18 sealed (2) DIY SI18 DS4 sealed| (2) inuke6000dp | Samsung K8500 4k UHD BDP | 16x11x7.5 sealed HT

the SadieMax HT build thread - my first build
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post #4229 of 4337 Old 03-14-2016, 07:27 AM
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Marantz 7702 Atmos
3 Inuke NU4-6000 amps for all speakers.
Speakers- 7 Behringer B215XL's, 4 212xl's for ceiling speakers.
Front subs 8 SI 18ht ported SLLT powered by Peavy IPR 7500
Rear subs 4 SI 18HT ported SLLT powered by Inuke 6000.
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post #4230 of 4337 Old 03-14-2016, 07:31 AM
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Im an idiot...its the first one...sorry

JVC RS400 4K PJ | Denon x7200WA 7.2.4 ATMOS/DTS-X | Emotiva XPA-5 gen2 |Emotiva XPA-200 gen2 | PSA MT110 x 3 FL/C/FR | (4) VOLT 6 sidesurrounds/Back Surrounds | (4) VOLT 6 ATMOS | 1 - PSA XS30 | (2) DIY SI-HT18 sealed (2) DIY SI18 DS4 sealed| (2) inuke6000dp | Samsung K8500 4k UHD BDP | 16x11x7.5 sealed HT

the SadieMax HT build thread - my first build
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