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post #4681 of 4726 Old 10-18-2016, 10:02 AM
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You really want in room performance of a particular scene we should use spec lab. After all, in room movie watching is what a HT room is about, not wine waves. Spec lab and Vibsensor should be enough.
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post #4682 of 4726 Old 10-18-2016, 11:01 AM
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Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post
You really want in room performance of a particular scene we should use spec lab. After all, in room movie watching is what a HT room is about, not wine waves. Spec lab and Vibsensor should be enough.
No argument here. I don't think there's a question that's the best solution. You take the source SL and then the SL's captured at the MLP, add VS and it's the complete and accurate solution. The thing that becomes the issue is degree of difficulty and ease of adoption. i think it may be too big of a step/too much to ask of everyone. In this case, my opinion is to take quantity over quality and keep it simple as long as it's reasonably accurate, to build a database quickly.
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post #4683 of 4726 Old 10-18-2016, 11:36 AM
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It is as easy as REW.
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post #4684 of 4726 Old 10-18-2016, 11:48 AM
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Speclab is nowhere near as easy as REW, not even close. It has a much more obscure interface, can be extremely picky about hardware and has a pretty obscure way to create cal files (so far involves me creating them by hand!)

It is also harder to relate to than REW and tells you a different thing. Speclab tells you how closely your system tracks the content, REW gives you a baseline for performance that is immediately and obviously comparable across systems. Speclab is particularly useful at high signal levels where a sweep can be quite dangerous.

The other thing with speclab is it is much more open to interpretation (see interminable debates on window settings for details)
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post #4685 of 4726 Old 10-18-2016, 12:05 PM
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Originally Posted by coolrda View Post
No argument here. I don't think there's a question that's the best solution. You take the source SL and then the SL's captured at the MLP, add VS and it's the complete and accurate solution. The thing that becomes the issue is degree of difficulty and ease of adoption. i think it may be too big of a step/too much to ask of everyone. In this case, my opinion is to take quantity over quality and keep it simple as long as it's reasonably accurate, to build a database quickly.

Keep is simple is the key.
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post #4686 of 4726 Old 10-18-2016, 01:50 PM
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My cal files are terrible for REW and never gets the low end properly. My non calibrated SPL meter just using C-weight is better but can't get above 7khz. Spec lab is easy to set up just by loading the settings from data bass. The correction files are impossible but we have you my friend! Having both they are equaling plug and play and both require me to do the same. Probably more with REW, that is why I said it. Once you figure out what taps are which and what to pick it becomes very simple as you just leave it there and run different scenes. Setting is tricky but I figure if you area bass head you want to tinker anyways.
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post #4687 of 4726 Old 10-18-2016, 02:55 PM
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My cal files are terrible for REW and never gets the low end properly. My non calibrated SPL meter just using C-weight is better but can't get above 7khz. Spec lab is easy to set up just by loading the settings from data bass. The correction files are impossible but we have you my friend! Having both they are equaling plug and play and both require me to do the same. Probably more with REW, that is why I said it. Once you figure out what taps are which and what to pick it becomes very simple as you just leave it there and run different scenes. Setting is tricky but I figure if you area bass head you want to tinker anyways.
with all the tweaking you do you really have no excuse to not just get a umik1 from csl.
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post #4688 of 4726 Old 10-18-2016, 07:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by coolrda View Post
The reason I always post my FR at SPL is it shows true system capability in my room with my gear which is the purpose of this new scorecard. However, you both make valid arguments for lower levels being used. I am using a full bandwidth stereo signal with rerouted bass only so it really isn't a true gauge, per se, of a movie soundtrack.

Derrick, we're using a typical test tracks for OM/REW FR graphs. EOT is used for TR test graphs. I'm open to using whatever is decided as long as its weighted towards real world in room data, objective data, and not Sim'd or speculative based on DB driver and subwoofer testing. Thats has its place here and thats why I think its important to include.

My opinion is that the goal/s are first and foremost having and accurate picture of how each room really performs so that we know how our rooms and each others, sound and feel. Secondly, the data can be used in the design phase of a room as well as trouble shooting a room thats not performing for some reason. Later on, I think its important to include a placement layout of the room.

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The shape is important. Now we are using a FR graph with the EOT clip. It would be nice if everyone ran it at as close as possibe to the same volume. Having the low bass limited to 105 db would make it easier to do comparsion to the TR reference level. This way we can see how sub location, structural platform, ect. effect the TR score. Maybe I'm over thinking this.
You both bring up a good point...if we're running reference in order to generate the TR response, you could leave it at the same volume and get an FR. I think we stated before that for those that wanted to get a max FR sweep, go ahead and post. For those that do not, we can use the ULF score.

I think we should move away from EOT, and go with the 1-50hz pink noise that @3ll3d00d pointed out from REW. This will best show TR, instead of just 4 frequencies of EOT.
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post #4689 of 4726 Old 10-18-2016, 08:32 PM
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Hey Notnyt, I had a CSL calibrated mic and it was no different than my UMIK.
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post #4690 of 4726 Old 10-19-2016, 12:08 AM
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Hey Notnyt, I had a CSL calibrated mic and it was no different than my UMIK.
the cal files are a little better... why not use the umik then? they're so fast to set up no reason not to
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post #4691 of 4726 Old 10-19-2016, 05:18 AM - Thread Starter
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@derrickdj1 , can you post an old psd with just subs vs your new one? I want to see the difference at 10hz!
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post #4692 of 4726 Old 10-19-2016, 06:59 AM
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Originally Posted by dominguez1 View Post
@derrickdj1 , can you post an old psd with just subs vs your new one? I want to see the difference at 10hz!

Here are a couple from when we were testing in May. Unfortunately, I had more but, the computer crash this summer cause the lost of some of my VS data.
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post #4693 of 4726 Old 10-19-2016, 07:18 AM
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the cal files are a little better... why not use the umik then? they're so fast to set up no reason not to
I do. All my spec labs were from the UMIK. I did some sweeps of the all Berry room as well. BTW, do you have a cut list for your ported subs?
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post #4694 of 4726 Old 10-19-2016, 07:28 AM
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A little off topic, sorta...


But to you bass hounds there is an upcoming KC Home theater crawl with at least four systems that should be in the top ~30 on the first page ULF star list.


February 2017 - Kansas City Home Theater Crawl


Archaea - (8) UM 18-22 in sealed enclosures
Carp - (9) SI 18HT subwoofers in sealed enclosures and a pair of JTR 215HT
d_c - a couple gjallarhorns, a couple othorns, a couple SI 24" in a dual opposed config.
scrappydue - (8) SI 18HT in sealed enclosures


Heck, there isn't really a shortage of bass in the other rooms slotted to demo either.

chldsplay has a pair of JTR Captivators
jedimastergrant has an Orbit Shifter LFU, and a pair of JTR Captivators (his score should probably be calculated -- he has a smaller sealed home theater room, and he's probably pushed his way into the top 30 -- at least above 20hz.
Stoked21 has a pair of JTR Captivators and a sealed 18"



Just trying to get the word out so we can have a well attended event!
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post #4695 of 4726 Old 10-19-2016, 10:26 AM
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Sound like fun in KC to help start the year off!
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post #4696 of 4726 Old 10-19-2016, 11:32 AM
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Originally Posted by dominguez1 View Post
I think we should move away from EOT, and go with the 1-50hz pink noise that @3ll3d00d pointed out from REW. This will best show TR, instead of just 4 frequencies of EOT.
Yeah. There's nothing like burning your coils for 10s just to get to the 10hz stuff. As I've said many times I'm so tired of running this. It's served its purpose and really helped get the VS testing rolling. Time to move on. We need burst testing in the repertoire as well.

@3ll3d00d repost the above mentioned test track please. I have a one min white noise @23mb file size. Is that yours? @desertdome any good test tracks, burst or otherwise?
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post #4697 of 4726 Old 10-19-2016, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by dominguez1 View Post
@derrickdj1 , can you post an old psd with just subs vs your new one? I want to see the difference at 10hz!
He gained about 5-6@10hz. It's looks like more because he dropped 15-30hz about 10 from pervious set.
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post #4698 of 4726 Old 10-19-2016, 12:24 PM
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Just to add to above, a hann 6.5 cycle 1/3 octave burst. I would like to start below 5Hz just to see the system limits. Frequency centers 3.125,4,5,6.25,8,10,12.5,16,20,25,32,40,50,63.5,80 ,100. Even at 3hz its not system threatening like EOT due to ramping and duration. No wimpy stuff though. Record test tracks at -0.1dbfs.
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post #4699 of 4726 Old 10-19-2016, 12:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post
A little off topic, sorta...


But to you bass hounds there is an upcoming KC Home theater crawl with at least four systems that should be in the top ~30 on the first page ULF star list.


February 2017 - Kansas City Home Theater Crawl


Archaea - (8) UM 18-22 in sealed enclosures
Carp - (9) SI 18HT subwoofers in sealed enclosures and a pair of JTR 215HT
d_c - a couple gjallarhorns, a couple othorns, a couple SI 24" in a dual opposed config.
scrappydue - (8) SI 18HT in sealed enclosures


Heck, there isn't really a shortage of bass in the other rooms slotted to demo either.

chldsplay has a pair of JTR Captivators
jedimastergrant has an Orbit Shifter LFU, and a pair of JTR Captivators (his score should probably be calculated -- he has a smaller sealed home theater room, and he's probably pushed his way into the top 30 -- at least above 20hz.
Stoked21 has a pair of JTR Captivators and a sealed 18"



Just trying to get the word out so we can have a well attended event!
Hmmm...thinking about attending this and finally meeting you avs nut jobs...

To my active ulf, vibsensor, mbm posters...what do you say we Meet up here?

No promises yet, but enough time to plan...
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post #4700 of 4726 Old 10-19-2016, 12:34 PM
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Just to add to above, a hann 6.5 cycle 1/3 octave burst. I would like to start below 5Hz just to see the system limits. Frequency centers 3.125,4,5,6.25,8,10,12.5,16,20,25,32,40,50,63.5,80 ,100. Even at 3hz its not system threatening like EOT due to ramping and duration. No wimpy stuff though. Record test tracks at -0.1dbfs.
so you mean a CEA-2010 burst? just download REW and use the signal generator to save those to a file -> http://www.roomeqwizard.com/help/hel...ml/siggen.html
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post #4701 of 4726 Old 10-19-2016, 12:55 PM
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He gained about 5-6@10hz. It's looks like more because he dropped 15-30hz about 10 from pervious set.
Interesting observation. I have been cutting a lot on the rear subs. With most music you can stand right next to the sub an can't really tell if it is on. The goal was better integration of front and rear groups while taking stain off the furthest away subs. That's were the GL matching in setup comes into play.

This is the lowest overall output mode using the HS filters on the sub. Negative 4 db is taken off from 20 Hz and up per sub. My shift is focus on SQ in the HT and music in the room. With the I Nuke presets, I can easily switch back and forth between High, low and middle output modes.

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post #4702 of 4726 Old 10-19-2016, 01:05 PM
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so you mean a CEA-2010 burst? just download REW and use the signal generator to save those to a file -> http://www.roomeqwizard.com/help/hel...ml/siggen.html
Yep. Well I could do it, but that puts undue stress on my skill set which is limited at best. If you would be so kind as to do that and include the 1-50hz pink noise it would be greatly appreciated. Those two alone would make for comprehensive testing.
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post #4703 of 4726 Old 10-19-2016, 02:22 PM
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I do. All my spec labs were from the UMIK. I did some sweeps of the all Berry room as well. BTW, do you have a cut list for your ported subs?
oo, the way the post i replied to made it sound like you didnt have a calibrated mic, I was confused.


Yeah cut list and model in the build thread... lol looking to build something stupid?

8x 18" LMS 5400 Ultras Sealed to 27 Cube 15hz Ported Build
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post #4704 of 4726 Old 10-19-2016, 02:53 PM
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Yes, I want to build a 10hz tuned slot ported sub for the rear corners. For now I am adding an 8.5 inch round port to the existing cabs and see ignore I can cut down on port chuffing. I only get it when running them at very loud 10hz stuff like the EoT intro at 12 dB hot. I tried a slot port before and love the idea of the port acting like a brace and port at the same time.
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post #4705 of 4726 Old 10-19-2016, 03:07 PM
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Originally Posted by coolrda View Post
Yeah. There's nothing like burning your coils for 10s just to get to the 10hz stuff. As I've said many times I'm so tired of running this. It's served its purpose and really helped get the VS testing rolling. Time to move on. We need burst testing in the repertoire as well.

@3ll3d00d repost the above mentioned test track please. I have a one min white noise @23mb file size. Is that yours? @desertdome any good test tracks, burst or otherwise?
The new score card looks good. It has enough data in it to give sound analysis on what various HT experiences are in a certain room size, X subwoofer setup, ect. Do we want to change things up again with a new scale and new testing methodology? Large numbers of people need to be able to do this easily and understand what they are doing. It needs to stay simple even if it is not perfect.
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post #4706 of 4726 Old 10-19-2016, 03:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Yes, I want to build a 10hz tuned slot ported sub for the rear corners. For now I am adding an 8.5 inch round port to the existing cabs and see ignore I can cut down on port chuffing. I only get it when running them at very loud 10hz stuff like the EoT intro at 12 dB hot. I tried a slot port before and love the idea of the port acting like a brace and port at the same time.
Could you do a slot port that extends vertically? PVL goodness from top to bottom, increasing TR.
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post #4707 of 4726 Old 10-19-2016, 04:13 PM
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That is my plan.
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post #4708 of 4726 Old 10-19-2016, 06:53 PM
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Originally Posted by derrickdj1 View Post
The new score card looks good. It has enough data in it to give sound analysis on what various HT experiences are in a certain room size, X subwoofer setup, ect. Do we want to change things up again with a new scale and new testing methodology? Large numbers of people need to be able to do this easily and understand what they are doing. It needs to stay simple even if it is not perfect.
I know. EOT's become a crutch and it's a good one. The problem is EOT isn't a flat reference test track. We have to change at some point and mows a good time as any especially with the new SC. We can tinker with the SC over the coming weeks and months to fine tune it from there. EOT served its purpose. Moving to CEA testing will align this with current test criteria. The original SC numbers were primarily based on DB testing(as is the new SC)which is extremely neutral, thorough, exacting and well regarded from the industry as the gold standard. So it only makes sense with what's trying to be accomplished here to follow that method. It's well thought out and it simply works. The other thing is, I certainly don't want guys blowing up there gear while testing.
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post #4709 of 4726 Old 10-20-2016, 02:16 AM
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Originally Posted by coolrda View Post
Just to add to above, a hann 6.5 cycle 1/3 octave burst. I would like to start below 5Hz just to see the system limits. Frequency centers 3.125,4,5,6.25,8,10,12.5,16,20,25,32,40,50,63.5,80 ,100. Even at 3hz its not system threatening like EOT due to ramping and duration. No wimpy stuff though. Record test tracks at -0.1dbfs.
see https://drive.google.com/drive/folde...mc?usp=sharing

process to create is

- install REW
- open generator
- choose CEA-2010
- set level to -3.1
- enter frequency
- click WAV button
- save file somewhere
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post #4710 of 4726 Old 10-20-2016, 08:10 AM
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Originally Posted by 3ll3d00d View Post
see https://drive.google.com/drive/folde...mc?usp=sharing

process to create is

- install REW
- open generator
- choose CEA-2010
- set level to -3.1
- enter frequency
- click WAV button
- save file somewhere
Will this work for people using Omnimic? It should be easy to in stall some file to play the testones. Maybe some sample graphs or data can be posted to give people a better ideal of what is going on.
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