Your Home Theater ULF Score - Page 41 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Baselworld is only a few weeks away. Getting the latest news is easy, Click Here for info on how to join the Watchuseek.com newsletter list. Follow our team for updates featuring event coverage, new product unveilings, watch industry news & more!


Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
Old 12-12-2013, 07:26 AM
 
BeeMan458's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Magalia, CA
Posts: 8,374
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 806
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

I hate to bring this up again and it is not about CHT, any speakers or subs, it is just that so many bring up CHT. Comparing a $400 sub vs a $1500 sub is obvious, especially sealed vs ported. You know where I stand as I have mentioned this all the time. You guys always seem to compare $6000 worth of subs against $1000-$3000 worth of subs and say how the $6000 was better or in another league.

Well, I can't afford a set of three S2s so I'll just have to be happy with the pair we have on order with an eye on a future purchase of a third. In the end, it's all about the Benjamins and how many of them one has to throw at a problem.

Three of what we ordered, $3,508.00.

vs

Three S2s which have a purchase price of about $9000.00

(not counting any multiple, JTR, discounts)

Yes, there's huge disparity in price and yes, agreeing with you, there's a huge disparity in performance.

(and yes Santa, i'll take three S2s for Christmas)

-
BeeMan458 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 12-12-2013, 07:50 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 4,509
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Liked: 613
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

I hate to bring this up again and it is not about CHT, any speakers or subs, it is just that so many bring up CHT. Comparing a $400 sub vs a $1500 sub is obvious, especially sealed vs ported. You know where I stand as I have mentioned this all the time. You guys always seem to compare $6000 worth of subs against $1000-$3000 worth of subs and say how the $6000 was better or in another league. I would say the same thing! The question is what happens when you put $6000 worth of the cheaper subs up against the $6000 more expensive subs. That is how I compare things and why I say what I do. I mean if we had a GTG at my house we could compare one CapS2 vs an OS vs my IB and see what wins. I had dual Cap1000's that cost as much as 4 18.2's so we could compare that as well(actually we can't, I don't own them anymore) but I bet people would not pick the usual suspects. I don't expect dual CS 18.1's to equal a single Cap, not even close near 17-25hz. It is what it is. I have been moving around my SEOS and 888LP and I just wanted to say the I think Jeff makes his speakers with concrete or bricks, damn they are heavy for little guys!

I've never been a fan of bringing price into a comparison. The only time it's relevant, IMO, is after David kicks Goliath's butt it's then cool to note that David charges less. The whole "Well, it SHOULD be better cause it costs 'x' as much" is BS. That just tells me if I want better, don't waste my money on the pretender who claims to be better. That's just common sense.

Remember, it was your buddy who favorably compared his subs to DIY subs that cost 5X his Eminence pro sound driver. So, is it OK to make false claims using price, or not OK to present the facts without mentioning price?

Honestly, Arch is defending his honor. He went so far beyond most of those who have preceded him in putting together a great GTG and presenting the data as if the reader was there. That's no trivial exercise. And he has been pi$$ed all over by CHT worshippers since, including yourself as quoted above and referring to him as "you guys".

Regarding statements about what sub will "win", you really tend to mean what sub will play louder. If your claim suggests that a Cap S2 will not do reference in your room, that should be mentioned. Otherwise, reference is reference. SPL is accomplished by multiples and has no other relevance.

You've claimed that 'x' CHT sealed subs played reference in your room to below 5 Hz. I call BS. I don't care if you had 50 of them, it was not set up for reference to 5 Hz and any posted measurements to that effect are not reliable vs the facts of the matter.

So, IMHO, Arch should be free to defend his honor in any thread where the subject presents itself. He isn't making it about any particular sub, others are.

Otherwise, what is a sub that has no ULF capability doing in a thread that scores subs with ULF capability?
bossobass is offline  
Old 12-12-2013, 08:06 AM
 
BeeMan458's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Magalia, CA
Posts: 8,374
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 806
Along with other intrinsic details, for the rest of us mortals, price/performance is key to the subwoofer purchase that we all know as: "best bang-for-the-buck."

(just saying)

-
Brian Fineberg likes this.
BeeMan458 is offline  
Old 12-12-2013, 08:21 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Brian Fineberg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 6,170
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2174 Post(s)
Liked: 1874
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

Along with other intrinsic details, for the rest of us mortals, price/performance is key to the subwoofer purchase that we all know as: "best bang-for-the-buck."

(just saying)

-

well done...it seems like we have an elitist on our hands rolleyes.gif

Panasonic 65VT30 | Panasonic AE8000 HD PJ | Denon x4100 5.2.4 ATMOS | Emotiva XPA-5 gen |Emotiva XPA-200| PSA MT110 x 3 FL/C/FR | PSA MT110sur surrounds | 3 - PSA XS30 (1 SE) | OPPO 103 | MINIdsp 88a Dirac

the SadieMax HT build thread - my first build
Brian Fineberg is offline  
Old 12-12-2013, 08:26 AM
 
BeeMan458's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Magalia, CA
Posts: 8,374
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 806
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Fineberg View Post

well done...it seems like we have an elitist on our hands rolleyes.gif

...rolleyes.gif...biggrin.gif
BeeMan458 is offline  
Old 12-12-2013, 08:30 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
MKtheater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: New Hartford, NY
Posts: 15,722
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 856 Post(s)
Liked: 737
Quote:
Originally Posted by bossobass View Post

I've never been a fan of bringing price into a comparison. The only time it's relevant, IMO, is after David kicks Goliath's butt it's then cool to note that David charges less. The whole "Well, it SHOULD be better cause it costs 'x' as much" is BS. That just tells me if I want better, don't waste my money on the pretender who claims to be better. That's just common sense.

Remember, it was your buddy who favorably compared his subs to DIY subs that cost 5X his Eminence pro sound driver. So, is it OK to make false claims using price, or not OK to present the facts without mentioning price?

Honestly, Arch is defending his honor. He went so far beyond most of those who have preceded him in putting together a great GTG and presenting the data as if the reader was there. That's no trivial exercise. And he has been pi$$ed all over by CHT worshippers since, including yourself as quoted above and referring to him as "you guys".

Regarding statements about what sub will "win", you really tend to mean what sub will play louder. If your claim suggests that a Cap S2 will not do reference in your room, that should be mentioned. Otherwise, reference is reference. SPL is accomplished by multiples and has no other relevance.

You've claimed that 'x' CHT sealed subs played reference in your room to below 5 Hz. I call BS. I don't care if you had 50 of them, it was not set up for reference to 5 Hz and any posted measurements to that effect are not reliable vs the facts of the matter.

So, IMHO, Arch should be free to defend his honor in any thread where the subject presents itself. He isn't making it about any particular sub, others are.

Otherwise, what is a sub that has no ULF capability doing in a thread that scores subs with ULF capability?

I find it funny that you are against me anytime I mention CHT. Did you not say the GTG's don't represent ULF accurately and more of a SPL contest. Defending honor? Where is the fight? Archaea does a fine job and can say whatever. Don't you guys blast me all the time with measurements and such? Why are others exempt? I showed my responses of my subs, I never said they played below 5hz at reference, I never showed a response to 5hz LOL. I would think a sweep to 115 dBs is much harder than a movie. Does a movie contain 115 dBs at 5hz? I never measured THD to 5hz anyways, just 10hz. I never did max sweeps either. I EQ'd flat to 7hz(where they dropped off) and played reference levels with all movies, no clipping, no noises. The only thing I could do is spec lab but my mic rolls off too much to be accurate. If it was accurate I would have spec lab graphs every where. Remember mine were falling off digitally on the low end so I stopped.

Can a S2 hit reference in my room, I don't know, never owned one. I showed my omnimic measurement of my CHT subs, it is as accurate as anyone's who uses omnimic, like Archaea. It is OK to get different opinions.

BTW, I hit 120 dBs at 10hz with 10% THD, RMS sine waves, with the CHT subs. I don't see many people doing THD numbers to see what their subs can do. I don't recall needing 120 dBs at 10hz at reference. If it did, then the subs would make terrible noises during movies because they make terrible noises past 10% THD, I know this because I tested them.

Yamaha RX-A2030 and 4 Yamaha P2500s amps.
speakers- 9 Behringer B215XL's
subs- SI 18ht x12 IB powered by Sanway FP14K.
MKtheater is offline  
Old 12-12-2013, 08:47 AM
Advanced Member
 
nfraso's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 578
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 168
To the CHT apologists who continue to whine about price differences or setup issues (there's always an excuse with CHT, always) you seem to forget that it's a constant theme at these GTGs.

Look at the '11 "Subfest" at Husker's place. It included an SS-18.2 vs a single Submersive. This is 2 x18's versus 2 x15's. Fair fight, no? Chase would even claim the 18.2 has more displacement than the SubM.

The Submersive won easily, it was preferred across the board. Even Husker, a CHT sub owner at the time had no qualms with admitting the SubM was superior when asked by Craig at the meet.

Price and performance are absolutely not the only considerations. What about aesthetics or overall size? The SS-18.2 takes up twice the space of the SubM. So you think you have extra cash to add another in hopes of finally matching the SubM's performance instead of coming up short with one. Now you've taken up 4x the space in your room... what's the point?

Take the Rythmik FV15HP and the CHT VS-18.1- Craig loves to throw out the numbers it hits with a $7K amp, but when Ricci tested the amp Chase actually sells, it comes up short versus the FV15HP.

Comparing normal prices and shipping rates, they are nearly identically priced.

One is 18" wide, 24" deep, and 24" tall in black oak vinyl. The other is 22" wide, 22" deep, and freaking 40" tall in matte black.

One gives you two port tunes, extension and damping settings, gain, phase, variable crossover point and slope, SSF and single band PEQ controls. The other gives you SSF, LPF and gain controls.

And people still act like it's a no brainer to go with Chase stuff. Like we just haven't "gotten" it yet.
nfraso is offline  
Old 12-12-2013, 09:03 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
MKtheater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: New Hartford, NY
Posts: 15,722
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 856 Post(s)
Liked: 737
Quote:
Originally Posted by nfraso View Post

To the CHT apologists who continue to whine about price differences or setup issues (there's always an excuse with CHT, always) you seem to forget that it's a constant theme at these GTGs.

Look at the '11 "Subfest" at Husker's place. It included an SS-18.2 vs a single Submersive. This is 2 x18's versus 2 x15's. Fair fight, no? Chase would even claim the 18.2 has more displacement than the SubM.

The Submersive won easily, it was preferred across the board. Even Husker, a CHT sub owner at the time had no qualms with admitting the SubM was superior when asked by Craig at the meet.

Price and performance are absolutely not the only considerations. What about aesthetics or overall size? The SS-18.2 takes up twice the space of the SubM. So you think you have extra cash to add another in hopes of finally matching the SubM's performance instead of coming up short with one. Now you've taken up 4x the space in your room... what's the point?

Take the Rythmik FV15HP and the CHT VS-18.1- Craig loves to throw out the numbers it hits with a $7K amp, but when Ricci tested the amp Chase actually sells, it comes up short versus the FV15HP.

Comparing normal prices and shipping rates, they are nearly identically priced.

One is 18" wide, 24" deep, and 24" tall in black oak vinyl. The other is 22" wide, 22" deep, and freaking 40" tall in matte black.

One gives you two port tunes, extension and damping settings, gain, phase, variable crossover point and slope, SSF and single band PEQ controls. The other gives you SSF, LPF and gain controls.

And people still act like it's a no brainer to go with Chase stuff. Like we just haven't "gotten" it yet.

I love the perspective of Chase haters as well, it goes both ways Matt.

Here was my omnimic of the 18.2, with no EQ.


Yamaha RX-A2030 and 4 Yamaha P2500s amps.
speakers- 9 Behringer B215XL's
subs- SI 18ht x12 IB powered by Sanway FP14K.
MKtheater is offline  
Old 12-12-2013, 09:05 AM
Advanced Member
 
nfraso's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 578
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 168
Edited for MK's mistake.
nfraso is offline  
Old 12-12-2013, 09:30 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
MKtheater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: New Hartford, NY
Posts: 15,722
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 856 Post(s)
Liked: 737
Oops, that was meant for Bosso.

Yamaha RX-A2030 and 4 Yamaha P2500s amps.
speakers- 9 Behringer B215XL's
subs- SI 18ht x12 IB powered by Sanway FP14K.
MKtheater is offline  
Old 12-12-2013, 09:36 AM
Advanced Member
 
nfraso's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 578
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 168
Understood, it didn't make sense with the quoted post and you said my name too. biggrin.gif Removed the last one in response to your mistake.
nfraso is offline  
Old 12-12-2013, 09:37 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
MKtheater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: New Hartford, NY
Posts: 15,722
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 856 Post(s)
Liked: 737
OK to your post, Define wins hands down? The scores were not that far apart. The prices are. Of course there are other things to consider besides performance. Looks, size, performance, and price are the big ones. Do I think the submersive is a better sub than the 18.2, it should be. I have never owned one to compare myself. Define better? Size and looks for sure! Were all the subs optimized to their best abilities? Same response? These are the same questions I get when I make comparisons so I expect the same treatment elsewhere.

Yamaha RX-A2030 and 4 Yamaha P2500s amps.
speakers- 9 Behringer B215XL's
subs- SI 18ht x12 IB powered by Sanway FP14K.
MKtheater is offline  
Old 12-12-2013, 10:00 AM
Advanced Member
 
nfraso's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 578
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 168
Hands down meaning no one thought the CHT 18.2 was better than the SubM. Everyone jumped up and down because only 2 CHT 18.1s were compared against the dual SubM at the KC blind test. There was supposed to be four, and that would have changed everything, they said (including you, MK). But Husker's meet was exactly that, an 18.2 vs a single SubM. No one preferred the 18.2 to the SubM.

Again, prices are not that different. All you get for the price of a Submersive is two SS-18.2s; adding another means you can only hope the 2x18's were being choked by headroom and you need more to compete with the SubM's 2x15's. For your gamble you are rewarded with two huge black boxes, where just one is significantly larger than the SubM.

In the end, the Chase sub is using an 18" with 12mm xmax per Eminence. Per Ricci, physical limits at 20mm, it has nothing more. There's nothing to see here, pack 40 of them in your room if you want, no one's stopping you.

Price has nothing to do with why a subpar product continually gets outperformed by ones that were properly designed for their intended purpose.
nube and Luke Kamp like this.
nfraso is offline  
Old 12-12-2013, 10:05 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
MKtheater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: New Hartford, NY
Posts: 15,722
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 856 Post(s)
Liked: 737
Bosso, one more thing, if the CHT sub does not belong in this thread for ULF then why just this sub, all ported and horn subs should go bye bye as well. The OS is a sealed horn so it is at least similar to a sealed Cap so it can remain.

My question is I was getting low end from my CHT subs but it required more boost to account for the roll off. It did not have headroom down low though for very spirited levels. Many of these GTG's use the omnimic so I showed a response graph with one to be relevant. My REW showed the same thing so I ditched the omnimic.

Yamaha RX-A2030 and 4 Yamaha P2500s amps.
speakers- 9 Behringer B215XL's
subs- SI 18ht x12 IB powered by Sanway FP14K.
MKtheater is offline  
Old 12-12-2013, 10:13 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
MKtheater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: New Hartford, NY
Posts: 15,722
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 856 Post(s)
Liked: 737
OK, then explain how one can get reference in their home to even 10hz then? Something has to be happening. The CHT subs do not distort like other subs, when the THD goes up to 11% they sound like crap, and not by a little. I have never heard that in my room, ever, except with sine wave testing. Never during a movie. I don't disagree that the submersive is a better sub.

Yamaha RX-A2030 and 4 Yamaha P2500s amps.
speakers- 9 Behringer B215XL's
subs- SI 18ht x12 IB powered by Sanway FP14K.
MKtheater is offline  
Old 12-12-2013, 10:39 AM
Advanced Member
 
nfraso's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 578
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

The CHT subs do not distort like other subs, when the THD goes up to 11% they sound like crap, and not by a little.

What do you mean by this, and how is it an advantage for Chase?

They are 12mm xmax 18's that hit a wall at 20mm. If you put together a system assuming they are 20mm 18's, yeah you're going to have a bad time. If you put 8 of them in a small room like you did, you'd probably get away without offensive sounds.
nfraso is offline  
Old 12-12-2013, 12:22 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
MKtheater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: New Hartford, NY
Posts: 15,722
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 856 Post(s)
Liked: 737
Not an advantage at all just that there is no mistaking that sound with distortion. The CHT subs I had were either clean or sound bad. Many of my subs would distort during sine wave tests but still sound really good, like 12-16% THD. The eD's 13av2's and F-20's could play more THD and sound great.

Yamaha RX-A2030 and 4 Yamaha P2500s amps.
speakers- 9 Behringer B215XL's
subs- SI 18ht x12 IB powered by Sanway FP14K.
MKtheater is offline  
Old 12-12-2013, 12:30 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 4,509
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Liked: 613
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

I find it funny that you are against me anytime I mention CHT. Did you not say the GTG's don't represent ULF accurately and more of a SPL contest. Defending honor? Where is the fight? Archaea does a fine job and can say whatever. Don't you guys blast me all the time with measurements and such? Why are others exempt? I showed my responses of my subs, I never said they played below 5hz at reference, I never showed a response to 5hz LOL. I would think a sweep to 115 dBs is much harder than a movie. Does a movie contain 115 dBs at 5hz? I never measured THD to 5hz anyways, just 10hz. I never did max sweeps either. I EQ'd flat to 7hz(where they dropped off) and played reference levels with all movies, no clipping, no noises. The only thing I could do is spec lab but my mic rolls off too much to be accurate. If it was accurate I would have spec lab graphs every where. Remember mine were falling off digitally on the low end so I stopped.

Can a S2 hit reference in my room, I don't know, never owned one. I showed my omnimic measurement of my CHT subs, it is as accurate as anyone's who uses omnimic, like Archaea. It is OK to get different opinions.

BTW, I hit 120 dBs at 10hz with 10% THD, RMS sine waves, with the CHT subs. I don't see many people doing THD numbers to see what their subs can do. I don't recall needing 120 dBs at 10hz at reference. If it did, then the subs would make terrible noises during movies because they make terrible noises past 10% THD, I know this because I tested them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

I love the perspective of Chase haters as well, it goes both ways Matt.

Here was my omnimic of the 18.2, with no EQ.


Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

Bosso, one more thing, if the CHT sub does not belong in this thread for ULF then why just this sub, all ported and horn subs should go bye bye as well. The OS is a sealed horn so it is at least similar to a sealed Cap so it can remain.

My question is I was getting low end from my CHT subs but it required more boost to account for the roll off. It did not have headroom down low though for very spirited levels. Many of these GTG's use the omnimic so I showed a response graph with one to be relevant. My REW showed the same thing so I ditched the omnimic.

Nothing funny about it, sorry if I gave the impression I was attempting humor.

Others don't post hundreds of graphs accompanied by "My computer fell and doesn't work", "I have a new computer and I don't know how it works", "I ran these with correction file off", "Somethings off with these graphs", "I think c-weighting was turned off when I did these", etc.

And no one has ever "blasted" you about it. Several of us have struggled to help you get on track so that you can someday start being consistent with the data you post. You always say you will heed the advice, but so far have not.

As far as the claimed THD @ 120dB @ 'x' Hz, again, the numbers do not jive. A FR trace at an arbitrary level in dBSPL is one thing but in order for a THD claim to have any meaning, the calibration, set up and execution are extremely critical, which is why other members (including myself) rarely care to go through all of that for a dubious result that can be disputed (and should be).

The only THD @ 10 Hz post I remember is this one:

68944b13fc469c0ff1d53057fabd7019.png

It's 110dB and shows a FR that's flat to below 5 Hz. It shows a reduction in THD of 70% or more by room gain.

The FR graph you posted using OM, let's put it on a graph scaled to what the rest of us use and have used for a long time:

af1c45daaf45858306af077beabe7943.jpg

With this FR, there is little chance you read 120dB @ 10 Hz with 10% THD accurately. No room can overcome the naked response of the CC subs. I don't care what boost you claim, it's not my first day with this subject. Look at it by the numbers:

The graph you posted shoes room gain knocking down THD. If you overlay the OM trace you posted onto the THD data, the CC sub sees no reduction in THD from the room. It's shows 22 dB of gain @ 10 Hz, but 20dB of gain @ 20 Hz… no help from the room in reducing 2HD, and so forth. You posted no info on the rig, the setup, the calibration, etc. So, no, I don't believe your THD result is accurate.

This is what I and others have been saying forever; it does not matter what the system that generated this in-room FR can "hit" at 5 or 10 Hz. You calibrate level at cross, not at 5 Hz. Push the system to reference level and you're not gonna hit anything at 5 Hz. This is not a debatable statement. Feel free to continue to debate it anyway, but that will not alter the facts.

Regarding rating resonant systems, this has been addressed. No such sub should be rated below tune.
bossobass is offline  
Old 12-12-2013, 12:46 PM
AVS Special Member
 
steve nn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 6,207
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 431
Quote:
With this FR, there is little chance you read 120dB @ 10 Hz with 10% THD accurately. No room can overcome the naked response of the CC subs. I don't care what boost you claim, it's not my first day with this subject. Look at it by the numbers:

+1 now that I can visualize from the graph. Also from just looking at the driver it reminds me of a driver that can get very loud to the right but quite challenged to the left/down low, obvious reasoning.

Klipsch RB-75
Klipsch C-7
Klipsch RB-35
On-going SW management class
Denon
PS3
steve nn is offline  
Old 12-12-2013, 12:51 PM
Advanced Member
 
nfraso's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 578
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 168
Cue MK's response of, "all I care about is <20Hz because I can EQ everything above that so it doesn't matter."

In 3...2...
nfraso is offline  
Old 12-12-2013, 12:52 PM
AVS Special Member
 
nube's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Posts: 1,383
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 75 Post(s)
Liked: 445
Great post, Dave, both with regards to James' constantly changing measurements, and the last line regarding the resonant system ratings.

I've been thinking about something separately that I'll ping you about in the near future.
nube is offline  
Old 12-12-2013, 03:21 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
MKtheater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: New Hartford, NY
Posts: 15,722
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 856 Post(s)
Liked: 737
Quote:
Originally Posted by nfraso View Post

Cue MK's response of, "all I care about is <20Hz because I can EQ everything above that so it doesn't matter."

In 3...2...

The master of out of context, no wonder why you get banned all the time, at least Bosso's post is helping. All I did was buy measuring gear per the guys on the forum and use them to measure. You know I have always mentioned what I have used with every graph I have posted at the time. The omnimic graph should be obvious. I also measured them with REW. I am trying to get the measuring thing right and keep buying and using equipment one tells me. It is wrong, then I change, then it is right but same graph, they both can't be right or wrong or the person who said it was wrong was wrong. Bosso, I am not sure what THD graph that was, it was either the F-20 system or one CHT in my room because I measured both. I did the same thing for both of them and the difference at 10hz was 12 dBs with the F-20 being lower by 12 dBs at 10hz. I don't know the absolute numbers but that was the difference in my room and it was felt.

You guys act like I am trying to hide something, I just post what I get and change when asked. I try to do what is asked. Right now I am doing close mic sweeps for Tux so the subs are taking a back seat right now. I got my HDMI computer working with my emc8000 and mobile pre.

Yamaha RX-A2030 and 4 Yamaha P2500s amps.
speakers- 9 Behringer B215XL's
subs- SI 18ht x12 IB powered by Sanway FP14K.
MKtheater is offline  
Old 12-12-2013, 03:31 PM
Advanced Member
 
nfraso's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 578
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 168
Oh, the out of context fallback again. Nice.

How about this. The last time you posted that same omnimic graph (just 2 days ago), this is what you said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

Here was my response with the 18.2's, maybe the 18.2's were better designed than the 18,1's? My minus 3 dB point was 15hz. I always start at 20hz with my rolloff because anything above can be EQ'd flat.

How's that for context.
nfraso is offline  
Old 12-12-2013, 03:55 PM
Bass Enabler
 
Scott Simonian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Clovis, CA
Posts: 16,744
Mentioned: 47 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2719 Post(s)
Liked: 2061
Yeesh.

This thread =

Toe, steve nn and Archaea like this.

My Dual 18" LLT subs 120dB down to 10hz ***FOR SALE***

Plan9Reloaded Co-host
Listen to the Plan9Reloaded Gaming and Technology Podcast (may contain NSFW language)
https://soundcloud.com/plan9reloaded/sets/podcast - direct pod link
http://plan9reloaded.com/site/ - main website
Scott Simonian is offline  
Old 12-12-2013, 07:41 PM
AVS Special Member
 
basshead81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Fort Wayne, IN
Posts: 7,846
Mentioned: 27 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 100 Post(s)
Liked: 2702
This thread got **** on.

Getting Started with REW: A Step by Step Guide --> http://www.mediafire.com/view/aolmz2..._101_v3.92.pdf

Mini DSP Tutorial by Neutro --> http://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-su...g-minidsp.html
basshead81 is offline  
Old 12-12-2013, 09:42 PM
AVS Special Member
 
rhed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,738
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 445 Post(s)
Liked: 314
WOW! Haven't been on AVS for awhaile.. What the hells going on?
rhed is offline  
Old 12-12-2013, 10:32 PM
AVS Special Member
 
derrickdj1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,226
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 351 Post(s)
Liked: 255
Archeae honor has not been attacked in any manner or any of the participants. This discussion should be simple. It was pointed out that the I Nuke amp was not setup correctly and has went un-noticed for a long time on this forum. I did not comment on the results of the meet because for me, they are not relevant. I had no experience with any of the subs in the GTG at the time and was not an active member on this forum.

The setup problem of the I Nuke amp is a common problem with any new product or technology on the market. Working the bugs out is also common and may be related to easy of use or product design. The Berhiger manual is very vague on proper setup for non pro application. I did not comment on the result of the GTG because, they were effected by the setup of the amp and wished not to get into a discussion on the merits of a particular subwoofer. The focus was only directed at setup of the amp. Arheae was correct in re-opening the old thread and transferring the discussion over to that thread. People are talking about winners? The companies involved in the shootout most likely did not go there to win. In my experience in business, companies participate in events like the GTG to show their product, public relations and target a certain demographic section of the market. This can be based on price, performance, size, aesthetic or a combination of factors. I was at the auto show a couple of years ago, Ford and Mercedes Benz were there. I am sure these two companies were there to display their product, public relations and to targeted a certain demographic section of the car market. I also feel that all the subs in the GTG will target a particular demographic segment of the subwoofer market.

I am also sure that the people involved in the GTG planned to have a fun and productive event. The GTG required hard work and travel by it's participant. The problem with the amp was an unforseen bug at the event. Archeae and myself have had a very informative and educational directed discussion on what should have been done. Neither he nor I need anyone defending our statements or honor.

As to the purpose of this thread, it was created for people to evaluate their ULF score and have some fun. I hope it was not created to include or exclude owners of a particular brand of subwoofer. It seems that the primary purpose is way off track and need to be redirected. Any discussion related to the GTG should be directed to the old thread. I hope the setup information on the Berhinger amp makes it a useful tool for others to use. The amp has a lot of great features and is a solid performer in my HT.
derrickdj1 is offline  
Old 12-13-2013, 04:05 AM
 
BeeMan458's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Magalia, CA
Posts: 8,374
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 806
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhed View Post

WOW! Haven't been on AVS for awhaile.. What the hells going on?

A bit of a distraction from the main programming?

...confused.gif

...wink.gif
BeeMan458 is offline  
Old 12-13-2013, 04:58 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Brian Fineberg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 6,170
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2174 Post(s)
Liked: 1874
I want my ULF score thread back :'(

Panasonic 65VT30 | Panasonic AE8000 HD PJ | Denon x4100 5.2.4 ATMOS | Emotiva XPA-5 gen |Emotiva XPA-200| PSA MT110 x 3 FL/C/FR | PSA MT110sur surrounds | 3 - PSA XS30 (1 SE) | OPPO 103 | MINIdsp 88a Dirac

the SadieMax HT build thread - my first build
Brian Fineberg is offline  
Old 12-13-2013, 05:08 AM
 
BeeMan458's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Magalia, CA
Posts: 8,374
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 806
BeeMan458 is offline  
 

Tags
ae ib15 subwoofer , Bic Pl 200 Acoustech Platinum Series Subwoofer , Bowers Wilkins Asw 610 , Danley Sound Labs Dts 10 , Elemental Designs A7s 450 , Epik Empire , Fv15hp Subwoofer , Hsu Vtf 15h Subwoofer , Klipsch Sw 311 , Seaton Sound Submersive H P , Svs Pb12 Nsd Black Vinyl 12 Inch Powered Subwoofer , Svs Sb13 Ultra Piano Gloss 13 Inch 1000 Watt Powered Subwoofer , Velodyne Eq Max 15 15 Subwoofer
Thread Tools


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off