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post #2041 of 2442 Old 06-23-2014, 11:40 PM
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Those two graphs are both mine, and are the exact same sweep before eq. I got things a lot smoother prior to eq, just had to knock the big peak down.

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post #2042 of 2442 Old 06-23-2014, 11:41 PM
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You know what? It's ok guys. Don't need to turn this into a debate thing.. It's all good. It's just a hobby for me and I'm happy with what I have. Dom.. I'll remove my graph post. Sorry guys if this graph offends anyone.. Lol..
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post #2043 of 2442 Old 06-23-2014, 11:42 PM
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Bear's point was one cannot pinpoint what frequency or range of frequency to be fixed if the graph is not scaled properly. The first graph does not show much of the mountain and valley, the second graph does.
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post #2044 of 2442 Old 06-23-2014, 11:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bear123 View Post
Those two graphs are both mine, and are the exact same sweep before eq.
So since taking them have your tried to EQ them somehow to get them a little flatter? I don't really see an issue with posting graph with 1/12th smoothing. I'm still hoping to get some time this weekend to get mine setup better, but I can easily tell by just switching two of the four off and on how much they help smooth out the bass.


I have to say that so far they are pretty badass.
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post #2045 of 2442 Old 06-23-2014, 11:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tvuong View Post
Bear's point was one cannot pinpoint what frequency or range of frequency to be fixed if the graph is not scaled properly. The first graph does not show much of the mountain and valley, the second graph does.
Yeah, I got that part but thanks for spelling it out...lol
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post #2046 of 2442 Old 06-23-2014, 11:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rhed View Post
You know what? It's ok guys. Don't need to turn this into a debate thing.. It's all good. It's just a hobby for me and I'm happy with what I have. Dom.. I'll remove my graph post. Sorry guys if this graph offends anyone.. Lol..
You should leave your post with graph to see what Dom's opinion is. It is everyone hobby here and that is why I am here frequently. Why would one be offended by your graph ?
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post #2047 of 2442 Old 06-23-2014, 11:49 PM
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Lets also not forget that rhed has four Cap S2's with one placed in each corner of his room. Even without 1/6th smoothing I'm going to take a guess that he'd have a pretty good graph, not to mention we're talking four badass subs. 8 drivers with 30mm xmax and each one getting 2000watts of power from a very legit amp
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post #2048 of 2442 Old 06-23-2014, 11:49 PM
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Here is my actual FR after eq. I think the max boost I used was 1 or 2 dB can't remember. So yes I did work on the response...also, by using the correct scaling, I was able to see some dips and peaks that I was able to fix without eq.....otherwise I would have glossed over problem areas. So this is not a debate or an argument, but I think helping people understand why graphs should be scaled a certain way is helpful. That is the intention.
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post #2049 of 2442 Old 06-23-2014, 11:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bear123 View Post
Here is my actual FR after eq. I think the max boost I used was 1 or 2 dB can't remember.

Weren't you busting balls about graphs with smoothing?....lol and then you go and post one with 1/12th smoothing.....LOL
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post #2050 of 2442 Old 06-23-2014, 11:56 PM
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Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post
Weren't you busting balls about graphs with smoothing?....lol and then you go and post one with 1/12th smoothing.....LOL
1/6th smooths things too much, so much that you miss problem areas. 1/12th still shows pretty good detail. But I do all my measuring with no smoothing as it is easier to see how small changes can help eliminate problems that smoothing....smoothes. And I am not trying to bust anyones balls..again, proper scaling on graphs can be helpful. After all we are measuring our rooms to try and improve things..not hide things. And bad scaling/smoothing hides things.

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post #2051 of 2442 Old 06-23-2014, 11:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post
Yeah, I got that part but thanks for spelling it out...lol
You are welcome
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post #2052 of 2442 Old 06-24-2014, 12:00 AM
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isn't what we hear with our ears closely resemble 1/6th smoothing? So if that's what we hear why is it such an issue to post a graph with 1/6th smoothing?
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post #2053 of 2442 Old 06-24-2014, 12:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tvuong View Post
You are welcome
tvuong, where's your latest graphs?
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post #2054 of 2442 Old 06-24-2014, 12:02 AM
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^^ I believe we discussed this elsewhere. 1/6 smoothing is NOT for bass.
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post #2055 of 2442 Old 06-24-2014, 12:04 AM
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Sorry if I don't catch every post.
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post #2056 of 2442 Old 06-24-2014, 12:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post
tvuong, where's your latest graphs?
The blue one is my subs only graph. I am about +-3db from 10-100hz
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post #2057 of 2442 Old 06-24-2014, 12:32 AM
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Wow very nice!

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post #2058 of 2442 Old 06-24-2014, 12:37 AM
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^^ Thanks Bear
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post #2059 of 2442 Old 06-24-2014, 12:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tvuong View Post
The blue one is my subs only graph. I am about +-3db from 10-100hz

How much smoothing has been applied to this graph? I doesn't look like a unsmoothed graph.
+-3dB 10-100hz, sorry so are your subs are capable of playing at 3dB below reference at 10hz?
what did you use or do to EQ your subs that flat?
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post #2060 of 2442 Old 06-24-2014, 12:47 AM
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^^ No smoothing. If you are familiar with REW, the solid line down below the legend area at the very bottom of my graph indicates no smoothing. I only post unsmoothing graph for subs. I use 1/6 or 1/12 for speakers measurements. I use XT32 with subEQ from my Denon X4000 avr. I do not know if they can play 3db below reference at 10hz as I cannot locate my spl to calibrate REW which allows me to run a higher sweep than -12db MV. Currently any sweep over -12db MV causes an error in REW. With that's being said, from my graph, my subs probably can play reference loud or -3db at 10hz (Dom, correct me if I am wrong here). I also apply a 6db low shelf filter centered at 60hz from my HTPC jriver MC19 which is NOT shown on the posted graph. Some day, if I can find an easy way to use REW to measure my jriver low shelf response, I will post that graph.

Last edited by tvuong; 06-24-2014 at 01:14 AM.
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post #2061 of 2442 Old 06-24-2014, 01:03 AM
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+/- 3 dB to 10 Hz only matters if he can do it at the volumes he listens. If he listens at reference, then it matters if he can hold that FR up to reference level. If he listens at -15, then his FR at reference level does not matter. Regardless, I will mention again..outstanding frequency response...and congrats!!

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post #2062 of 2442 Old 06-24-2014, 01:46 AM
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No smoothing he says.
5hz he says.
200hz he says.
Reasonable X-scaling he says.
Reasonable Y-scaling he says.





Look ma... no hands!
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post #2063 of 2442 Old 06-24-2014, 05:36 AM
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What are the dimensions of your room?
Quote:
Originally Posted by tvuong View Post
^^ No smoothing.


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post #2064 of 2442 Old 06-24-2014, 05:41 AM
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This is my unsmoothed graphs done up to 95db. The yellow one is after the distance tweak at 75db. Would it be safe to assume that as long as the limiter is engaged I can do sweeps at higher levels such as 115db without causing damage?


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post #2065 of 2442 Old 06-24-2014, 06:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post
isn't what we hear with our ears closely resemble 1/6th smoothing? So if that's what we hear why is it such an issue to post a graph with 1/6th smoothing?
Not so much as posting graphs that are not scaled correctly.

That being said let's see some new graphs of the 4 subs vs 2. The "my ears say the response is smoother" does not fly here at AVS.

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post #2066 of 2442 Old 06-24-2014, 06:27 AM
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Originally Posted by ahmedreda View Post
This is my unsmoothed graphs done up to 95db. The yellow one is after the distance tweak at 75db. Would it be safe to assume that as long as the limiter is engaged I can do sweeps at higher levels such as 115db without causing damage?
Sure you can...I have done sweeps much higher then 115db with no issues. REW is a short sweep, the limiter will protect the subs from any damage. Just keep turning the subs up 5db and remeasure. Post graphs starting from 100 then work up to 115db in 5db incriments. Keep a eye on compression.
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post #2067 of 2442 Old 06-24-2014, 07:28 AM
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
Sure you can...I have done sweeps much higher then 115db with no issues. REW is a short sweep, the limiter will protect the subs from any damage. Just keep turning the subs up 5db and remeasure. Post graphs starting from 100 then work up to 115db in 5db incriments. Keep a eye on compression.

You can see that compression is already starting below tune assuming the mic is accurate down there. However, it looks like the FV15HP is good to 8hz in your room so far! That is awesome for a ported sub. If you can't reach reference just add more.
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post #2068 of 2442 Old 06-24-2014, 08:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tvuong View Post
^^ No smoothing. If you are familiar with REW, the solid line down below the legend area at the very bottom of my graph indicates no smoothing. I only post unsmoothing graph for subs. I use 1/6 or 1/12 for speakers measurements. I use XT32 with subEQ from my Denon X4000 avr. I do not know if they can play 3db below reference at 10hz as I cannot locate my spl to calibrate REW which allows me to run a higher sweep than -12db MV. Currently any sweep over -12db MV causes an error in REW. With that's being said, from my graph, my subs probably can play reference loud or -3db at 10hz (Dom, correct me if I am wrong here). I also apply a 6db low shelf filter centered at 60hz from my HTPC jriver MC19 which is NOT shown on the posted graph. Some day, if I can find an easy way to use REW to measure my jriver low shelf response, I will post that graph.

Okay so the XT32 is really helping out smoothing your response. I've been considering getting a X4000 receiver or maybe even the AVR-4520, so you're happy with it I'm guessing?


I'm somewhat familiar with REW but just need more time with it. what are your thoughts on the JRiver? I'm considering a HTPC and have also been looking into using Jriver software with it.


Like someone else asked what's the size of your room?
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post #2069 of 2442 Old 06-24-2014, 09:00 AM
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What are the dimensions of your room?
14x19 with 9' ceiling sealed room.
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post #2070 of 2442 Old 06-24-2014, 09:15 AM
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Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post
Okay so the XT32 is really helping out smoothing your response. I've been considering getting a X4000 receiver or maybe even the AVR-4520, so you're happy with it I'm guessing?


I'm somewhat familiar with REW but just need more time with it. what are your thoughts on the JRiver? I'm considering a HTPC and have also been looking into using Jriver software with it.


Like someone else asked what's the size of your room?
Love my X4000. IIRC, you had/have a Sherbourn 7 or 5 channels amp. If so, I would just stick with the X4000 rather than the 4520 or wait a month or two for the newest Denon equivalence. I can't say enough that once you run a HTPC as source especially with jriver, you will be wondering why you did not do it earlier. I got gbcmc here to build one and he said the same thing. Jriver has lots of awesome features from top notch video performance to top notch parametricEQ audio and much much more features. If you want ultimate sound, add Dirac live (expensive) on top and you will be putting a smile on your face (not that you don't now but wider smile). Rcohen here said XT32 with subEQ is good but adding Dirac live is great.
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