Your Home Theater ULF Score - Page 71 - AVS Forum
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post #2101 of 2750 Old 07-07-2014, 10:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ahmedreda View Post
Josh Ricci tested the SVS SB-13 for audioholics. http://www.audioholics.com/subwoofer...r/measurements
Interesting it didn't get a passing result for 25Hz and below because of THD.
the sb13 had a passing output down to 10hz. All the green means is amp limited vs orange thd limited.
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post #2102 of 2750 Old 07-30-2014, 09:18 AM
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OK, so I ported my IB to see what would happen. I have yet run a movie on it as it was too late last night but after the sims and then running in room responses my response from sealed to ported has not really changed except I have a taller and wider peak from 6-9hz. That's what happens when you tune very low. My score is the following:
5hz: 47


7hz: 23


10hz: 47


12.5 hz: 63


16hz: 63


I am building my enclosures for my surrounds tomorrow and I am either adding 4 f my drivers or two FTW-21's tuned to 7hz. My front wall is tuned to 7hz as well.
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post #2103 of 2750 Old 07-30-2014, 09:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post
OK, so I ported my IB to see what would happen. I have yet run a movie on it as it was too late last night but after the sims and then running in room responses my response from sealed to ported has not really changed except I have a taller and wider peak from 6-9hz. That's what happens when you tune very low. My score is the following:
5hz: 47


7hz: 23


10hz: 47


12.5 hz: 63


16hz: 63


I am building my enclosures for my surrounds tomorrow and I am either adding 4 f my drivers or two FTW-21's tuned to 7hz. My front wall is tuned to 7hz as well.

Nice response! What are your impressions so far going from sealed to ported? I know you haven't gotten a chance really test it out though.
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post #2104 of 2750 Old 07-30-2014, 09:58 AM
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Not known yet, I should have a major bost from 5-12hz according to the sims and my response is flat from 10-120hz. My 5 hz is the same as my 80hz but I have a 10 dB peak starting at 5-9hz, peaking 7-8hz. I can not do anything about that.
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post #2105 of 2750 Old 07-30-2014, 06:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post
OK, so I ported my IB to see what would happen. I have yet run a movie on it as it was too late last night but after the sims and then running in room responses my response from sealed to ported has not really changed except I have a taller and wider peak from 6-9hz. That's what happens when you tune very low. My score is the following:
5hz: 47


7hz: 23


10hz: 47


12.5 hz: 63


16hz: 63


I am building my enclosures for my surrounds tomorrow and I am either adding 4 f my drivers or two FTW-21's tuned to 7hz. My front wall is tuned to 7hz as well.
Awesome stuff MK! Those are some crazy scores! I cannot wait to hear your impressions...although, it won't be an apples to apples comparison since you have that peak below 10hz. Can you EQ that out?

Also, can you post your sims compared to SI? I'll update my calculator and get you your ULF Score Card.
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post #2106 of 2750 Old 07-30-2014, 07:49 PM
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When I get to the office tomorrow. I can't EQ out the peak because it is the result of a 7hz tune and 20+ dBs of room gain. I am always flat with sealed so porting around there will always result in a peak at LP. My DTS-10's were tuned at 14 hz according to Ricci and that gave me a peak starting at 10-15hz and dropped off at 9hz. The peak is 10 dBs over 5 hz but like I said, 5 hz is equal to 80hz so without that peak I would have a -5 dBs point at 4 hz being flat to 5hz. The 5-9hz peak makes it look like the -10 dB point is 5 hz. Either way I have all the low end of my IB plus more output but I will check in a bit. I want to test to see if I could feel the wind from the massive twin 12 inch ports!
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post #2107 of 2750 Old 07-30-2014, 07:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post
I want to test to see if I could feel the wind from the massive twin 12 inch ports!
Where's the pics???
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post #2108 of 2750 Old 07-30-2014, 08:18 PM
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Soon, testing now, WTF! I have not hit the big boys yet.
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post #2109 of 2750 Old 07-30-2014, 09:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post
Soon, testing now, WTF! I have not hit the big boys yet.
Let's see some before/after measurements!
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post #2110 of 2750 Old 07-31-2014, 07:27 AM
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Coming soon, but they are close except for that peak. I have only been able to get into the theater late at night and I don't want to run sine wave sweeps that high. I got away with a quick 120 dB sweep by mistake. I think I will add the pics and measurements on my 8x18 IB thread unless you guys want them here. I am also building two subs nearfield but deciding on what drivers. If my enclosure gets smaller due to a triangular shape then I might have to go with one driver.
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post #2111 of 2750 Old 08-02-2014, 07:45 AM
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Here was my sealed response

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post #2112 of 2750 Old 08-02-2014, 08:50 AM
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Here is my ported response

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post #2113 of 2750 Old 08-02-2014, 08:52 AM
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dual 12 inch ports



What my seats look like, yes I have to clean them from dust. That is where I take my measurements, about ear level.

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post #2114 of 2750 Old 08-02-2014, 11:43 AM
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Looks like the measurements were taken in different spots and at different power levels and after being EQ'd. Really hard to make a comparison like that.
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post #2115 of 2750 Old 08-02-2014, 12:38 PM
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Same location, I will run the raw sweep at the same level I have my raw sealed set to, they still look the same as one another.
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post #2116 of 2750 Old 08-02-2014, 02:15 PM
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They are pretty close to each other except that the sealed is smoother between 50 and 90hz. looks good!

MY THEATER......The Thompson Theater 11.9 channels

"Is not love not unlike the unlikely not it is unlikened to?"
- Leon Phelps
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post #2117 of 2750 Old 08-02-2014, 05:02 PM
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I think Notnyt wants to see the effects of porting, as in how much sensitive per watt at tune or something like that. I know I gained at least 10-12 dBs near tune.

How can I show this? I have to look at my old sweep and at what level without EQ and then run the same input and see how much louder it is. Something like this Nonyt?
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post #2118 of 2750 Old 08-02-2014, 07:55 PM
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post #2119 of 2750 Old 08-03-2014, 06:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Lookin' good MK!

So, have you had some quality movie time yet? Have you noticed any differences?

Have you figured out the driver for the rears yet?

I'm ready to post the next version of the ULF Calculator, if you can post your sims I'll make sure your new score is included in the next update.
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post #2120 of 2750 Old 08-03-2014, 06:24 PM - Thread Starter
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This is what 4 Triax's will do for you in a 3200cf room.



Impressive raynist!
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post #2121 of 2750 Old 08-03-2014, 07:01 PM
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I have 24 SI's at 5 hz, 64 at 7 hz, and 32 at 10hz. The surrounds at awesome and the bass feels the same until something low happens. Imagine the hot LFE and the boosted low end with the LT we experimented with. Basically it allows me to run the boosted LFE and running hot at the same time which I could not do before on my 20 amp breaker.
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post #2122 of 2750 Old 08-03-2014, 07:21 PM - Thread Starter
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So, have you given them a run then with the standard demo's? No additional tactile feeling then (excepts for the boost down low)?

You gotta love that money seat now! Love how your surround are pointed right at you...that's gotta be crazy in that seat.

I think your rear LLT's is going to take it up a level though!

Did you move front row onto the riser?
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post #2123 of 2750 Old 08-03-2014, 09:09 PM
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Yes they are on the riser. You feel the low stuff more.
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post #2124 of 2750 Old 08-04-2014, 08:24 AM
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OK, so I ran through some of my movies last night and I noticed some extra low end but the levels seemed lower or equal to than what I had before overall. So I started to investigate and remembered what LTD told me a while ago. My sub system is massive and my room is not that big in comparison so if I add a port which side of the wall will be the enclosure? The IB shoots in both directions and I figured out why my measurements are just like my sealed. It is because my tune did not come out to be 7-8hz like I wanted, it came out to be 3.5hz! This seems awesome BUT my signal chain rolls off starting at 5hz so it ends up being just like the sealed in spl. I started modeling the ported IB with 1460 cubes as the enclosure size. So for me to have a 6.5 hz tune I need to cut the ports down to 1 inch! I knew something was wrong. So I have to cut the ports to 1 inch, 1 INCH! A one inch port will give me 32 SI's at 5hz, 96 SI's at 6hz, and 32 SI's at 10hz. Back to work again. Anyways, if I had a signal chain strong to 3hz this thing would be a monster down low.
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post #2125 of 2750 Old 08-04-2014, 05:53 PM - Thread Starter
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ULF Calculator v15 now available:

  • Calculations now assume a very conservative amount of room gain when estimating ULF Stars via Groundplane estimates:
  • 5hz = 12db gain
  • 10hz = 6db gain
  • 12.5hz = 4db gain
  • This gain is added on to the Groundplane SPL estimate to determine if you achieve "Reference" or "Above Reference" output.

Before, if your HT system could produce 114db at 10hz groundplane, in a relatively large room, you would have received a 4 star rating. Realistically, most would see some large gains at that frequency even in very large rooms. The above calculation solves for this now.

I didn't adjust the 16hz and 20hz calculations, as they've already been adjusted with the ULF category ranges. For 16hz and 20hz, "Reference" is 4.0 stars, and "Above Reference" is 4.5 and above (as opposed to 10hz and 12.5hz, which are 4.5 and 5.0 for "Reference" and "Above Reference" respectively).

As a result of the calculation update, the following member scores (yellow) have changed:



Additionally, raynist score has been updated to reflect 4 PSA Triax's, and bassthathz scores have been updated to show at all frequencies. The SVS SB13 Ultra has also been updated since it has been data-bass tested.
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post #2126 of 2750 Old 08-04-2014, 06:50 PM
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I was curious to see how many people could reach the THX 115db target (at any frequency at all), and came up with this list:


and here are all the members who have 8 or more SI-18 equivalences (again, at any frequency at all):


It should be noted that although not all members have all of their numbers in the list just yet... NotNyt: you are one scary dude!!! No kill like overkill I guess!
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post #2127 of 2750 Old 08-04-2014, 07:46 PM - Thread Starter
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^^^

Important to note though, the estimated output does not include any room gain and reflects a groundplane estimate (1/8 space, 4M distance). So, those with small rooms would have more output considerably more output even though their groundplane estimate may not be at 115db.

For example, sebastion1029 has a ULF score of 786 (4 Star) with his 3 submersives in his 3300cf room at an estimated 107.7db at 10hz.

Miniht has a ULF score of 301 (4.5 Star) with his single Cap S2 in his 842cf room at an estimated 104.1db at 10hz.

sebastion has more raw firepower, but when you factor in room based on his ULF score, miniht will likely have more raw output in reality.
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post #2128 of 2750 Old 08-04-2014, 07:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Anyone good at Google Sketchup? It would be very entertaining to show how much the SI equivalence would physically take up in these low ULF score rooms...

Take N8DOGG for example:

He has a ULF score of 42 at 16hz.

This is the equivalent of 46 sealed 21" cubed boxes in his 1920cf room. It would be interesting to visually see how much space that took up in his room!

Notnyt would be a good one as well with 64 SI subs!
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post #2129 of 2750 Old 08-04-2014, 11:13 PM
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Originally Posted by dominguez1 View Post
Anyone good at Google Sketchup? It would be very entertaining to show how much the SI equivalence would physically take up in these low ULF score rooms...
You should shoot chalugadp a PM, he's a teacher that actually teaches sketchup. I'm sure he'd be able to help you out.
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post #2130 of 2750 Old 08-05-2014, 02:25 AM
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Originally Posted by popalock View Post
You seem to be down about 40db @ 2Hz vs @ 18Hz. You are right, that is massive null at 100Hz.

Go ahead and fix your scale like bear suggested so we can really see what is going on.

With 4 S2's you should be able to smooth that 100Hz null with proper placement. What are you crossing your mains at?
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Ok pop.. I reconnected my speakers today. And thought I play with REW more since my new speakers don't arrive till Thursday. Anyway, I still got that null at 100. I think its a phase issue since that is where I cross the subs at. I tried playing around with the distance settings but still the same. Im also having another at around 40. And I can't get rid of it even with EQ. Hopefully when my new speakers come in I can have more to work with. BTW, how do I do sweep with to speakers and subs with REW. Like L/R with REW? Sorry if im missing it in the program. But I cant find it..

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