Your Home Theater ULF Score - Page 75 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 35Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #2221 of 2242 Old 08-22-2014, 09:16 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
MKtheater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: New Hartford, NY
Posts: 14,360
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 159 Post(s)
Liked: 421
I love them but like the RExxx Ricci tested, the enclosure is too small and to create the low end they can they need a bigger box.
MKtheater is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2222 of 2242 Old 08-22-2014, 02:17 PM
AVS Special Member
 
BassThatHz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: East side of NW Cascades
Posts: 2,785
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 176 Post(s)
Liked: 335
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post
That's with mic+SC corrections applied?

You have no output above 30hz, what's up with that?
BassThatHz is online now  
post #2223 of 2242 Old 08-22-2014, 04:12 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
MKtheater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: New Hartford, NY
Posts: 14,360
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 159 Post(s)
Liked: 421
That is a too small of an enclosure mixed with an inductance hump. The good part is I can bring down the 10-30hz and be flat to reference anyways. If you don't do that it is boomy as hell. When I bring down that peak I am flat from 6-100hz.
MKtheater is online now  
post #2224 of 2242 Old 08-22-2014, 06:55 PM
AVS Special Member
 
derrickdj1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,421
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 78 Post(s)
Liked: 141
It looks like a lot to bring down MK. I may be different from a lot of people because I don't like using over two to three filter under 60 Hz. How many will you need to use and what type of Q in the PEQ? I usually tolerate a 5-7 db+/- FR. This type of FR curve may result in some loudness in the mix above 30 Hz that is not objectionable in my large room.

Klipsch RF 7 based HT 7.4, Pioneer SC 35, Acurus Five 200 amp, Chase SS 18.2(2), VS 18.1(2), Samsung BDP F 7500, Asus/My Book Live HPC 4 TB

Yaquin VK 2100 amp, McIntosh XR 5 speakers, Samsung BDP F 7500
derrickdj1 is offline  
post #2225 of 2242 Old 08-22-2014, 07:16 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
MKtheater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: New Hartford, NY
Posts: 14,360
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 159 Post(s)
Liked: 421
I used 5 cuts. Pretty simple and still enough headroom. The reason is the small enclosure creates a hump on top of the inductance peak. The 8 drivers model in a 490 cubic foot box or IB, they are in 178 cubes. If you model these in my size box and then compare them in a proper IB you can see I lose lots of sensitivity down low which IB drivers are designed for. I still get away having the best bass ever but these drivers are not being utilized properly. They still sound awesome though. I will throw in the stereo integrity drivers in the Wall and see how they measure to compare. It should have a fat bottom end which I am looking for but I can fit 12 drivers if need be or 8 more robust drivers made for 24 cubes each. I need semi IB drivers.
MKtheater is online now  
post #2226 of 2242 Old 08-22-2014, 09:22 PM
AVS Special Member
 
basshead81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Fort Wayne, IN
Posts: 5,852
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked: 1397
Just curious, why did you choose the IB3 drivers if going into the build you knew you were severely limiting their low end performance by putting them in a enclosure 1/3 of the recomended space?
basshead81 is offline  
post #2227 of 2242 Old 08-23-2014, 06:41 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
dominguez1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,721
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 65 Post(s)
Liked: 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatshaft View Post
You, my friend, are definitely a subaholic and a real one!
And here i thought I was a subaholic
Ummm, ^^^this. MK, you've got one strong strain of the upgradeitus infection.

Still not sure why you're upgrading though?

You've stated that you had the best bass/low end ever with this setup.

I know you're not using these to their potential, but will replacing them get you more? For example, couldn't it be possible that 8 IB drivers in an undersized box would be the same output or more as 4 FTW21 in an optimal size box? I just used that as an example, but you get the picture.

Have you sim'd 8 IBs in your size box, and compared it to other subs that fits your box better to see if that would be the case?
dominguez1 is offline  
post #2228 of 2242 Old 08-23-2014, 07:33 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
MKtheater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: New Hartford, NY
Posts: 14,360
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 159 Post(s)
Liked: 421
I thought the wall was 3 feet away from the front wall. The IB was supposed to be 300 cubes which is close enough. I never paid attention before after reading about enclosures and stuff. The drivers are fine and the reason I blew a breaker is because the box is so small for the drivers that you can sink lots of power and I used all of my 20 amp breaker. This IB is supposed to use little power compared to small sealed subs. I have all the drivers about sold now anyways! This system added up to 12 SI's but there is no way I can port it because the box is too small. If I put 12 SI's in there I will have the same output and I can LLT it if I wanted to. I am putting the dual SI ported subs in the back for sure. That or 4 SI sealed each. The 24 cubes is a little small for dual ported SI's as well.
MKtheater is online now  
post #2229 of 2242 Old 08-23-2014, 07:35 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
MKtheater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: New Hartford, NY
Posts: 14,360
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 159 Post(s)
Liked: 421
Oh and yes, it has been the best bass to date. What happened is I tripped my breaker running my subs with a 10 dBs boost LT. I want to be able to run a 10 dBs boost LT with 6 dBs hot LFE which will result in devastation.
MKtheater is online now  
post #2230 of 2242 Old 08-23-2014, 07:45 PM
Advanced Member
 
DotJun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 906
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 44 Post(s)
Liked: 46
Quick sort of off topic question for people doing IB in the attic: how much of the bass escapes from your roof vents/gables/soffits and what have you?
DotJun is offline  
post #2231 of 2242 Old 08-23-2014, 11:39 PM
AVS Special Member
 
popalock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Doha, Qatar
Posts: 3,391
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 167 Post(s)
Liked: 566
Send a message via Skype™ to popalock
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post
I thought the wall was 3 feet away from the front wall. The IB was supposed to be 300 cubes which is close enough. I never paid attention before after reading about enclosures and stuff. The drivers are fine and the reason I blew a breaker is because the box is so small for the drivers that you can sink lots of power and I used all of my 20 amp breaker. This IB is supposed to use little power compared to small sealed subs. I have all the drivers about sold now anyways! This system added up to 12 SI's but there is no way I can port it because the box is too small. If I put 12 SI's in there I will have the same output and I can LLT it if I wanted to. I am putting the dual SI ported subs in the back for sure. That or 4 SI sealed each. The 24 cubes is a little small for dual ported SI's as well.
Rewind like 18 months ago and you could have gotten in on our SI group buy...saved a couple benjamins...

Why don't you scoop up the HST 18's that SI is offering. Bit more expensive but, from what I understand it pretty much uses the same motor as the 24" and will be a viable alternative to the LMS-U and the UXL-18. Not sure the pricing yet though.
jbrown15 likes this.

 

popalock is offline  
post #2232 of 2242 Old 08-24-2014, 06:38 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
MKtheater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: New Hartford, NY
Posts: 14,360
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 159 Post(s)
Liked: 421
I know but I thought I was building a bigger enclosure at the time. I ran a sim of a ported 8 SI system and winisd picked a 170 cubic foot box which I have a 178 cubic foot box! Perfect and it will be 10 dBs over my current system and 6 dBs more at 5hz and that is with my system in a true IB! I figured out that my ported system came out to be a 19.69 hz ported sub which is very bad! You really can't port these unless you have 500 plus cubes! Oh well, they are awesome drivers though and wish I had more room.
MKtheater is online now  
post #2233 of 2242 Old 08-25-2014, 06:01 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Pain Infliction's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Houston Texas
Posts: 2,662
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 137 Post(s)
Liked: 191
I think that the new SI drivers are around 550 dollars shipped and they can be used in a smaller enclosure.

MY THEATER......The Thompson Theater 11.9 channels

"Is not love not unlike the unlikely not it is unlikened to?"
- Leon Phelps
Pain Infliction is offline  
post #2234 of 2242 Old 08-25-2014, 06:08 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Brian Fineberg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,970
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 44 Post(s)
Liked: 451
please update mine..with the new HT room

Your Home Theater ULF Score Thread
***Input in yellow boxes as well as cost per sub detail below
Input Room Size in Cubic Feet >>> Room Size 1155
Total number of subs for your HT (Do not input) >>> Number of Subs 2 Member:
Total sub cost for your HT (Do not input)>>> Total Cost $2,498
10hz 12.5hz 16hz 20hz
Based on your sub's output, this is how many equivalent SIs > SI Equivalent 1.8 1.8 1.8 1.4
ULF Score 642 642 642 825
Groundplane SPL in room (1/8 space) w/sub 4M away (no room gain)> Groundplane SPL 100.3 103.8 108.9 113.1
Stars 4.5 4.5 4.5 4.5
Guideline for achieving reference output or above >>> Reference Estimate Reference Reference Above Reference Above Reference
Cost / SI (indication of bang for the buck for your subs) > Cost per SI $1,388 $1,388 $1,388 $1,784
Cost / Star (indication for bang for the buck for your room) >>> Cost per Star $555 $555 $555 $555

Panasonic 65VT30 | Denon x4000 | Emotiva XPA-5 | Emotiva XSP-1 | Emotiva DC-1 | PSB imagine B's |PSB image c5 | PSB B4's | DUAL PSA XS30 | OPPO 103 | minidsp

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/15-general-home-theater-media-game-rooms/1596161-sadiemax-theater-build-thread.html
Brian Fineberg is offline  
post #2235 of 2242 Old 08-25-2014, 11:14 AM
AVS Special Member
 
jbrown15's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Vancouver B.C.
Posts: 5,473
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 515 Post(s)
Liked: 813
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pain Infliction View Post
I think that the new SI drivers are around 550 dollars shipped and they can be used in a smaller enclosure.

I always thought SI's price were before shipping?

My Gear:

JTR Noesis 228HT (LCR)
Axiom Audio QS8 surrounds
Sherbourn PA 7-350
Pioneer VSX-21TXH
JVC RS45
Falcon Screens FVHD105
Dual PSA XS30's (gone but not forgotten)
jbrown15 is online now  
post #2236 of 2242 Old 08-26-2014, 02:43 AM
AVS Special Member
 
popalock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Doha, Qatar
Posts: 3,391
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 167 Post(s)
Liked: 566
Send a message via Skype™ to popalock
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pain Infliction View Post
I think that the new SI drivers are around 550 dollars shipped and they can be used in a smaller enclosure.
$589 shipped.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post
I always thought SI's price were before shipping?
Would be nice if there was consistency across the board...

At this point in time, the HST-18 price includes shipping to the lower 48.

 

popalock is offline  
post #2237 of 2242 Old 08-26-2014, 09:12 AM
AVS Special Member
 
jbrown15's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Vancouver B.C.
Posts: 5,473
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 515 Post(s)
Liked: 813
Quote:
Originally Posted by popalock View Post
$589 shipped.


Would be nice if there was consistency across the board...

At this point in time, the HST-18 price includes shipping to the lower 48.
Nice! Well that will certainly make it even more enticing to people now.

My Gear:

JTR Noesis 228HT (LCR)
Axiom Audio QS8 surrounds
Sherbourn PA 7-350
Pioneer VSX-21TXH
JVC RS45
Falcon Screens FVHD105
Dual PSA XS30's (gone but not forgotten)
jbrown15 is online now  
post #2238 of 2242 Old Today, 06:06 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
dominguez1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,721
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 65 Post(s)
Liked: 164
Version 16.1 of the ULF Calculator now available (post 1):

Click to download ULF Calculator

Example ULF Card


Latest ULF Calculator Updates:

August 28, 2014
  • Now all member scores for all frequencies are stored in spreadsheet and can be sorted by frequency or metric (ULF Score, Stars, SI, or GP SPL)
  • New ULF Card format
  • Tactile Feedback FX added

Member ULF Stars


Member ULF Scores


Member ULF SI Equivalents
laugsbach and basshead81 like this.
dominguez1 is offline  
post #2239 of 2242 Old Today, 06:28 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
dominguez1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,721
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 65 Post(s)
Liked: 164
The ULF score is a reflection of the overall output you have in the ULF range in your specific room, but unfortunately that doesn't tell the whole story to describing what your ULF experience is.

Why? Because everyone has different rooms with different construction (suspended floors, concrete walls, dry wall, etc.) with different furniture with different subs and with different placement of the subs. As a result, the sound waves produced by your subs will interact with those items very differently. Two people with the same ULF score could have a drastically different ULF experience because of their room's DNA so to speak.

I had originally wanted to come up with a Tactile Feedback score to augment the ULF score. The two combined would give folks a better understanding of how it "felt" to experience ULF in your room; the ULF score would give you an idea from a pressure/weight/kick in the chest standpoint, and the TF score would give you an idea from a "shaking" standpoint.

The problem with trying to come up with a Tactile Feedback score is that even that has so much variation dependent on the makeup of your room; two people with the same ULF score and suspended floors may have completely different experiences. One floor may have a resonant frequency of 6hz versus the other one having a resonant frequency of 30hz. Furniture is the same way; once HT seating may have a ULF resonant frequency vs the other one not having a ULF resonant frequency at all.

So instead of trying to assign a score to your room's Tactile Feedback, I believe the next best thing is to just identify Tactile Feedback enhancers (FX for short). This will at least give more details about your overall ULF experience.

Below is a list of Tactile Feedback FX that typically enhance the ULF experience:
  • Suspended Floor
  • Riser
  • Transducers (ULF capable)
  • Nearfield Sealed
  • Nearfield Ported
  • Nearfield Horn
  • HT seating with a ULF resonant frequency

Are there any I'm missing?

Note that it's possible to just have 1 of these and it could potentially perform better than having all of these...it's truly dependent on the room and personal preference. However, generally speaking the more you have, the more tactile it will be.

I've adjusted the ULF calculator so that you can now record what you have in your room. These will be added to the member scores. I took a shot based on what I know below:



Feel free to add any Tactile Feedback FX I missed for your HT room by posting here. I will update the list accordingly. Note that you should only include Tactile Feedback FX that occur to your Main Listening Position. For example, if you have a second row riser, but that's not where your "Money Seat" is, don't include it in as part of your ULF card.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Member ULF Scores Nearfield 8-28-14.jpg (351.1 KB, 20 views)
jbrown15, laugsbach and basshead81 like this.

Last edited by dominguez1; Today at 06:34 PM.
dominguez1 is offline  
post #2240 of 2242 Old Today, 07:01 PM
AVS Special Member
 
laugsbach's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
Posts: 2,615
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 27 Post(s)
Liked: 127
I have a riser on my first row allowing me to "float" the theater chairs for even more tactile feedback...
laugsbach is offline  
post #2241 of 2242 Old Today, 08:10 PM
AVS Special Member
 
ellisr63's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: In the Home Theater
Posts: 1,994
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 135 Post(s)
Liked: 231
dominguez1... I have a suspended floor, and my MLP is on top of one of the DTS-10 subs... MLP is about 2' in front of the opening for the DTS-10. I don't know if that effects the score or not.

Denon 4520ci, 3 JBL 2360As/EV DHA-1s, 3 1/4 Pie bass bins, MiniDSP 2x4s, 4 Klipsch HIPs, 2 Klipsch KP3002s, PS3, XBox 360, 3 Intel NUCs, Monoprice Redmere, Monster HTPS7000, 2 SUPER SPUD subs, Panasonic AE8000u, and a Yamaha P7000s.
ellisr63 is online now  
post #2242 of 2242 Old Today, 09:02 PM
AVS Special Member
 
basshead81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Fort Wayne, IN
Posts: 5,852
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked: 1397
This is my favorite thread!! Just thought I would share lol.
basshead81 is offline  
Reply Subwoofers, Bass, and Transducers

Tags
Fv15hp Subwoofer , Svs Sb13 Ultra Piano Gloss 13 Inch 1000 Watt Powered Subwoofer , Danley Sound Labs Dts 10 , Bic Pl 200 Acoustech Platinum Series Subwoofer , Elemental Designs A7s 450 , Bowers Wilkins Asw 610 , Epik Empire , Hsu Vtf 15h Subwoofer , Klipsch Sw 311 , Svs Pb12 Nsd Black Vinyl 12 Inch Powered Subwoofer , Velodyne Eq Max 15 15 Subwoofer , Seaton Sound Submersive H P

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off