Your Home Theater ULF Score - Page 79 - AVS Forum
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post #2341 of 2464 Old 09-04-2014, 07:07 AM
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BTW,
I still can't open the new ULF calculator.
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post #2342 of 2464 Old 09-04-2014, 07:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post
It does not matter, any response is good. I was curious on how much boost you needed to bring up the low end of each.
More boost was needed than what I was expecting. Guess I was just jaded from the awesome motor tech of the LMS-U.

However, I was eventually able to get the redline as my ULFTard curve with a bit of miniDSP tweaking.





Don't be disappointed in their low end response right off the bat, because it does take a bit of work...

 

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post #2343 of 2464 Old 09-04-2014, 07:26 AM
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I already know they have the chops for that 7hz Bass I love you note. The roll off will be based on box design as well. The smaller the box the more roll off but more power can bring that up unless the driver does not have enough motor to keep distortion down like my IB3-18's. I built the wall too small and to bring up the low end causes too much THD. A proper box will net you the same spl but less THD. This is why I am changing. I am tempted to buy Chops 4 24's but 16 18's are showing me a better low end with my wall. Wiring 4 drivers is much easier though!
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post #2344 of 2464 Old 09-04-2014, 08:46 AM
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Guess we know who to turn too now for help.


I've always had a few questions about the Matterhorn. Why the need for 40 individual amps vs. getting a few powerhouse amps drive multiple subs to save space and money? What kind of DSP work would go into the design to get it dialed in? I mean 40 drivers, each vertical row has a different distance from the horn mouth, so it seems like it would be a very tedious task to dial everything in properly. Maybe I'm just over thinking it and with a little time and patience anything can be done. It would be nice if @Ivan Beaver chimed in to provide just a glimpse of the secret sauce in the Matterhorn design.

I've seen some very great input from @Ricci about using multiple drivers in a tapped horn, but can't find the post...
Hey. I didn't mean to come off like a 'know-it-all' but I don't see what about it is so special that it could not be replicated with another horn sub design but upsized to ridiculousity. Take the Ohorn or Ghorn. Build forty of those and stack em together or even better line up half in front of one another and then build a horn extension between them to create a new larger mouth to couple them acoustically and extend their natural low corner. Bam. What else is there? Tack on the Danley name maybe for better?
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post #2345 of 2464 Old 09-04-2014, 02:40 PM
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Fatshaft,
what mic are you using?
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post #2346 of 2464 Old 09-04-2014, 03:30 PM
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Quote:
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Fatshaft,
what mic are you using?
Calibrated Dayton UMM-6 from Cross-Spectrum

http://cross-spectrum.com/measurement/calibrated_umm6.html



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post #2347 of 2464 Old 09-04-2014, 03:49 PM
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I have that one too!
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post #2348 of 2464 Old 09-04-2014, 03:54 PM
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me three!
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post #2349 of 2464 Old 09-04-2014, 04:55 PM
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I have that one too!
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me three!
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post #2350 of 2464 Old 09-04-2014, 05:00 PM
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When I simulate my ports and wall it says I should have 138 dBs at 18hz yet it had no gain over sealed with less low end, why? When I first built them it should have been tuned to 10.2hz with 126 dBs at 10hz ground plane yet it was a dud, why? The sims show a huge advantage with ports for my room gaining 5-20hz with quadruple to double the output yet nothing. I wonder what was going on? The only thing that has worked so far are my sealed near field subs, huge gains in just feel. However, a sim shows tuning this to 10hz gives me 12 SI more at 10hz and even at 5hz so it seems like a no brainer, I don't trust it anymore. Maybe the IB drivers just don't have enough motor for ported or small sealed boxes and nothing will help it other than IB? Maybe the SI's with the bigger motor will?
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post #2351 of 2464 Old 09-04-2014, 06:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post
When I simulate my ports and wall it says I should have 138 dBs at 18hz yet it had no gain over sealed with less low end, why? When I first built them it should have been tuned to 10.2hz with 126 dBs at 10hz ground plane yet it was a dud, why? The sims show a huge advantage with ports for my room gaining 5-20hz with quadruple to double the output yet nothing. I wonder what was going on? The only thing that has worked so far are my sealed near field subs, huge gains in just feel. However, a sim shows tuning this to 10hz gives me 12 SI more at 10hz and even at 5hz so it seems like a no brainer, I don't trust it anymore. Maybe the IB drivers just don't have enough motor for ported or small sealed boxes and nothing will help it other than IB? Maybe the SI's with the bigger motor will?
10hz is like 110ft long, perhaps the wall is completely acoustically-transparent at those frequencies.
Air leakage undermining the expected port pressure addition.
Maybe you've maxed out your mic.

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post #2352 of 2464 Old 09-04-2014, 06:59 PM
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"Maybe the IB drivers just don't have enough motor for ported or small sealed boxes and nothing will help it other than IB?"



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post #2353 of 2464 Old 09-06-2014, 09:12 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post
BTW,
I still can't open the new ULF calculator.
It must be something on your end...no one else seems to be having problems. Can you try a different program?
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post #2354 of 2464 Old 09-06-2014, 09:19 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post
When I simulate my ports and wall it says I should have 138 dBs at 18hz yet it had no gain over sealed with less low end, why? When I first built them it should have been tuned to 10.2hz with 126 dBs at 10hz ground plane yet it was a dud, why? The sims show a huge advantage with ports for my room gaining 5-20hz with quadruple to double the output yet nothing. I wonder what was going on? The only thing that has worked so far are my sealed near field subs, huge gains in just feel. However, a sim shows tuning this to 10hz gives me 12 SI more at 10hz and even at 5hz so it seems like a no brainer, I don't trust it anymore. Maybe the IB drivers just don't have enough motor for ported or small sealed boxes and nothing will help it other than IB? Maybe the SI's with the bigger motor will?
Maybe your setup was behaving like you were in the ported sub as opposed to outside of it. Who knows how your response is supposed to behave INSIDE a ported sub!!!
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post #2355 of 2464 Old 09-06-2014, 10:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Fatshaft View Post
Calibrated Dayton UMM-6 from Cross-Spectrum

http://cross-spectrum.com/measurement/calibrated_umm6.html

Dayton sell a mic with a kit that has software for around $300 http://www.parts-express.com/dayton-...ystem--390-792 Can this mic be used with REW? I am thinking about getingt the kit but, there is not much help on this forum for the software.

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Yaquin VK 2100 amp, McIntosh XR 5 speakers, Samsung BDP F 7500

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post #2356 of 2464 Old 09-07-2014, 02:36 PM
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It must be something on your end...no one else seems to be having problems. Can you try a different program?
Try setting the security setting to low, and download all the SP updates for Office.
You could try Open Office if Microsoft is giving you issues.

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post #2357 of 2464 Old 09-07-2014, 05:56 PM
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I fixed it. Still getting new setup up and running, stay tuned.
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post #2358 of 2464 Old 09-08-2014, 05:20 PM - Thread Starter
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jbrown15,

I can't post an attachment in a PM, so I'm just posting it here.

I checked out the sim...looks almost identical as your other subs. Less than 1db difference overall. I just added another sub like your other subs so you have a total of 5.

Here's what I get if you build that 5th sub and place it nearfield:



What amps are you running for these?
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Last edited by dominguez1; 09-08-2014 at 05:26 PM.
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post #2359 of 2464 Old 09-08-2014, 07:02 PM
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I'll run a single inuke 3000 to power the 5th sub.
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post #2360 of 2464 Old 09-08-2014, 07:09 PM - Thread Starter
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I'll run a single inuke 3000 to power the 5th sub.
What about the other subs?
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post #2361 of 2464 Old 09-08-2014, 07:12 PM
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I was powering then with two iNuke 6000's but I sold one and so I still have one and a Peavey IPR2 7500.
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post #2362 of 2464 Old 09-08-2014, 09:20 PM
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Ok, I just calibrated a new elite AVR to see how it does. It sounds good except the levels are so over cooked it is ridiculous. Every AVR I have ever tried calibrates reference about 10 dBs too hot. This is with the mains. I want to measure it's new MCACC EQ and then add my Nano AVR. The amps in this are good for my 4 ohm speakers. I tried to measure and one lap top does not recognize my UMIK, another does not have HDMI, and the one I usually use was dead and I can't find the power cord. I actually pulled out my old RS meter but I think it is broken as it never shows steady responses like it used to. Anyways, based on it I was extending down to 6hz for my two near field subs where it started to drop but I want to confirm this.
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post #2363 of 2464 Old 09-08-2014, 09:21 PM
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Hey Luke,
How do you like that peavy? Did you ever try a Sanway to compare?
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post #2364 of 2464 Old 09-09-2014, 07:56 PM
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This is why you don't trust auto EQ's, here is my center channel with subs(100 hz XO) with MCAAC.

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post #2365 of 2464 Old 09-09-2014, 08:03 PM
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BTW, the levels are off by 25 dBs for true reference. So people should check their AVR's for how loud 0 dB's really is before letting it rip. My reference is -25 dBs! This is an Elite SC-81. Powerful amps in it though.
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post #2366 of 2464 Old 09-09-2014, 08:46 PM
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I was just trying out this calculator and noticed the JTR OS was listed. Is this for the OS LF or OS LFU? I have the LFU which is tuned to 22hz, I think the LF was tuned to 25hz. Anyway here is what I came up with below. Obvioulsy ULF is a relative term...just eeked my way on to the list though.

Room Size 3500 Number of Subs 3 Member: lbrown105 Min Room Gain 6 Type Com 10hz 12.5hz 16hz 20hz SI Equivalent - - - 18.6 ULF Score NA NA NA 188 Groundplane SPL NA NA NA 135.6 GP Stars - - - 5.0 Stars (2 and up) (1.0) (1.0) (1.0) 5.0 Stars (1.5 and below) - - - - Category Stars 1.0 1.0 1.0 5.0 Stars 1.0 1.0 1.0 5.0 Reference Estimate Above Reference Subwoofage JTR OS LFU Power Tactile Feedback FX Total Cost $ 8,997 Cost per SI $ - $ - $ - $ 484 Cost per Star $ 8,997 $ 8,997 $ 8,997 $ 1,799

Pre-Pro: Emotiva XMC-1, DSP: Mini DSP 2x4 balanced
Amplifier: Sunfire TGA7400, Lab Gruppen FP10000Q
Speakers: JTR Noesis 212HT (LCR), JTR Slant 8's (surrounds), 3 Orbit Shifter LFU's
Sources: PS3, HTPC, Dish Network
Projector: Epson 8350
Screen: Seymour XD AT 138" diagonal 16:9

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post #2367 of 2464 Old 09-09-2014, 10:01 PM
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Here is the response from my nearfield subs, sealed.

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post #2368 of 2464 Old 09-10-2014, 05:49 AM
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Here is the response from my nearfield subs, sealed.

Nice! Is this with no eq?


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post #2369 of 2464 Old 09-10-2014, 06:33 AM
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EQ'd 20-60hz.
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post #2370 of 2464 Old 09-10-2014, 06:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Impressive mk! Where did you take the mic reading (how many feet or inches away)?
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