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post #2401 of 2420 Old 09-13-2014, 09:23 AM - Thread Starter
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nube's ULF Card:



...and entry into the 5hz club!



Glad to see a ULF Ambassador join the membership . His HT is a great example of full bandwidth capability at a very economical price ($1300 or so I believe). Reference capable down to 5hz I suspect.
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post #2402 of 2420 Old 09-13-2014, 10:20 AM - Thread Starter
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Version 17.0 of the ULF Calculator now available. Post 2 Updated with Member scores:
  • Corrected error with groundplace SPL calculation. It was adding 6db across the board to everyone's GP SPL. Thanks to basshead81 for finding!
  • This did impact a lot of members ULF Stars with the error correction. The stars seem more in line now though with 'Reference' and 'Above Reference' output. I take a general approach in defining these: Reference is 115-118, and Above Reference is > 118.

Welcome new members @Luke Kamp , @nube , and @popalock 's new warehouse..er, I mean HT.

I've also created a Tactile Feedback FX member list.


Member ULF Stars


Member ULF Scores


Member ULF SI Equivalents


Member Tactile Feedback FX


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post #2403 of 2420 Old 09-13-2014, 12:40 PM
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post #2404 of 2420 Old 09-13-2014, 12:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dominguez1 View Post
Hmmm, something doesn't seem right...



This is an 18db rolloff below 20hz...I have 20hz listed at 120db for the OS. That would put 10hz at 102db, which is more than I have estimated for the S2 at 98.2db.

I've heard that the S2 has twice the output (6db) below 20hz compared to the OS, and the OS has twice the output above 20hz.

Something is amiss here...
Quote:
Originally Posted by lbrown105 View Post
that is my understanding too about the difference between the OS and S2 above and below 20hz. I thought the OS LFU had output up to 133dB but not sure what freq that was measured at. I had Jeff on the phone today but did not ask him any of these questions so I am not sure.
Here are the links in case in makes more sense seeing the specs.


http://jtrspeakers.com/home-audio/orbit-shifter-lfu/
http://jtrspeakers.websitetoolbox.co...it+shifter+lfu
@lbrown105 ,

I didn't add you yet because I want to try and sort out the JTR subs...

Is this sim you posted from 1M?

Do you have sim's from other JTR subs like the S1, S2, and Captivator?


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post #2405 of 2420 Old 09-13-2014, 02:17 PM
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With the new figures in the calculator, my new score almost looks like my old score. It would be nice if a ? mark or some other form of info could be noted to indicated that the 10 and 12 Hz data is incomplete and is not include for two of the subs since there is no measurement data on them at those frequencies. Some may be interested in the Ultimax and know that there can be out lower than 16 Hz is possible if the sub is tuned lower as in this case.

I get the same spl at 10 and 12 Hz from the Vented subs as the dual sealed sub. It just seem that the score is not indicative of the the four subs performance capabilities. This may be a mute point and I may be the only one with this problem.

Klipsch RF 7 based HT 7.4, Pioneer SC 35, Acurus 200 Five, Dayton 18 Ultimxa Dual Sub Cab(2), Dayton 18 Ultimax Large Vented Sub Cab (2), on Berhinger I Nuke DPS amps, Samsung BDP F 7500, Asus/My Book Live HPC 4 TB

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post #2406 of 2420 Old 09-13-2014, 06:23 PM
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Not bad...assuming I did the numbers right.
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post #2407 of 2420 Old 09-13-2014, 09:38 PM
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Yes I believe the OS LFU measurement was 1M at arbitrary level. Max output is 133dB. Below is the measurement for the Cap S again arbitrary level and I believe 1M




JTR Cap S

Pre-Pro: Emotiva UMC-1, DSP: Mini DSP 2x4 balanced
Amplifier: Sunfire TGA7400, Lab Gruppen FP10000Q
Speakers: JTR Noesis 212HT (LCR), JTR Slant 8's (surrounds), 3 Orbit Shifter LFU's
Sources: PS3, HTPC, Dish Network
Projector: Epson 8350
Screen: Seymour XD AT 138" diagonal 16:9
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post #2408 of 2420 Old Yesterday, 05:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eljaycanuck View Post
Not bad...assuming I did the numbers right.
Congrats on the increase ULF! I bet things sound great now.

Klipsch RF 7 based HT 7.4, Pioneer SC 35, Acurus 200 Five, Dayton 18 Ultimxa Dual Sub Cab(2), Dayton 18 Ultimax Large Vented Sub Cab (2), on Berhinger I Nuke DPS amps, Samsung BDP F 7500, Asus/My Book Live HPC 4 TB

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post #2409 of 2420 Old Yesterday, 06:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by derrickdj1 View Post
With the new figures in the calculator, my new score almost looks like my old score. It would be nice if a ? mark or some other form of info could be noted to indicated that the 10 and 12 Hz data is incomplete and is not include for two of the subs since there is no measurement data on them at those frequencies. Some may be interested in the Ultimax and know that there can be out lower than 16 Hz is possible if the sub is tuned lower as in this case.

I get the same spl at 10 and 12 Hz from the Vented subs as the dual sealed sub. It just seem that the score is not indicative of the the four subs performance capabilities. This may be a mute point and I may be the only one with this problem.
Definitely see what you're saying...unfortunately, it will be difficult to account for in-room gain with different designs/rooms. However, you're not alone in this, as the ULF score treats everyone the same.


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post #2410 of 2420 Old Yesterday, 06:57 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eljaycanuck View Post
Not bad...assuming I did the numbers right.


Nice eljay...did you use the latest version (17)? If not, you should as I had some calculation errors in prior versions.

Are you integrating all 4 subs then in your room? Congrats if you are!


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post #2411 of 2420 Old Yesterday, 10:51 AM
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Curious that it lists my setup at 4.5 at 10hz, since it's really only down a few db there. I assume that's probably from model vs reality?




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post #2412 of 2420 Old Yesterday, 11:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dominguez1
Nice eljay...did you use the latest version (17)? If not, you should as I had some calculation errors in prior versions.
I was using v16.something, so I re-did it just now with v17. Not quite as good way down low, but still pretty good overall, IMO.

Quote:
Are you integrating all 4 subs then in your room? Congrats if you are!
Thanks. Yes, I have the UXLs up front and the SS-18s at the back right. The combination is very satisfying.
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post #2413 of 2420 Old Yesterday, 12:06 PM
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Notnyt, that graph shows a little compression everywhere except 10hz and under? It should be the opposite.
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post #2414 of 2420 Old Yesterday, 12:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post
Notnyt, that graph shows a little compression everywhere except 10hz and under? It should be the opposite.
I think I was compressing the mic or something on the top sweep. Was just the quickest one I had available, the lower two are standard response


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post #2415 of 2420 Old Yesterday, 12:30 PM
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Damn mics!
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post #2416 of 2420 Old Today, 08:24 AM
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Wink

Quote:
Originally Posted by dominguez1 View Post
Definitely see what you're saying...unfortunately, it will be difficult to account for in-room gain with different designs/rooms. However, you're not alone in this, as the ULF score treats everyone the same.
I am not talking about room gain, the vented subs have lower output than the windisp but, there are no measurement for this sub with a 16 Hz tune since I think I am the first person that converted the Chase VS 18.1 with the Ultimax . I was just thinking that page 74 used the ? marks for the 10 and 12 Hz measurements since it is not know. Most likely, not enough subs to note unknown measurements. It's all good so I won't bother you anymore, lol. Thanks for a great thread!

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post #2417 of 2420 Old Today, 06:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eljaycanuck View Post
I was using v16.something, so I re-did it just now with v17. Not quite as good way down low, but still pretty good overall, IMO.


Thanks. Yes, I have the UXLs up front and the SS-18s at the back right. The combination is very satisfying.
Eljay, not that it matters that much, but I re-did your ULF score using the Chase 18.2 instead of dual 18.1s. The estimate for the 18.2 extends to 10hz because it should lower distortion overall netting you deeper extension; going from a 3.5 star at 10hz to a 4.0 star.



One of the reasons why I double checked because it looked odd that you have a couple of UXLs and the Chase's, but still only got you to Reference at 16hz. I would have thought you would be in the 12.5hz range...of course this calculator is conservative by design.

Curious to your impressions of what's really happening in your room. Do you think/know you can hit 115-118 at 12.5hz? You're very close to that cutoff as 674 is 4.5 star, so I wouldn't be surprised if you do.
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post #2418 of 2420 Old Today, 06:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by notnyt View Post
Curious that it lists my setup at 4.5 at 10hz, since it's really only down a few db there. I assume that's probably from model vs reality?
You got it.


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post #2419 of 2420 Old Today, 07:36 PM
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Dom,
Here is the raw unsmoothed with no EQ near filed subs.

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post #2420 of 2420 Old Today, 07:36 PM - Thread Starter
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I think it's worth noting that these 4.5 Star and above systems are crazy capable...and certainly not "needed" for great bass (LF)!

In fact, I remember when I had just 2 eD A7s-450s:



3.5 Star system. I was super pleased with this system, and some of the best bass I had heard. A 3.5 star system put me on the extreme end of all other HT systems I had encountered. At the time I had some vintage Cambridge PSW12s placed nearfield. They were sealed, and probably didn't extend much beyond 28-30hz...but they still provided some nice shake.

The nearfield had always interested me, and a fellow AVS'r was selling his LFM1-EXs...so he let me try before I buy...needless to say, I bought them. This upgraded my ULF score to:



This was the upgrade where I had thought I had reached bass nirvana...the tactile feedback from the ported nearfield was incredible. Combined with the sealed A7S's, and there was no reason for me to upgrade. I was at 4.5 star 16hz and 20hz, but 3.5 star below that.

It wasn't until I blew a driver with my eD's, that I decided to upgrade. I wanted to not have to 'worry' about pushing my subs too hard, so went the FTW21 route....thought that was nirvana. Then wanted to try the FV15HP because it had been raved about so much, so sold the outlaws to fund the FV...thought that was nirvana...but wanted to get more even shake across all seating, so purchased another FV...you get the picture.

My point is: For folks that don't have 4.5 star systems, your system is not incapable by any means! In fact, I'm sure it's pretty impressive.
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