Your Home Theater ULF Score - Page 82 - AVS Forum
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Old 09-16-2014, 07:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eljaycanuck View Post
Thanks...and woo-hoo!! ;-)



Not sure about reference at 12.5Hz. The back-right corner seems to have little to no gain, so the FR curve for the SS-18s alone drops fast below ~40Hz or so.


Up front, the UXLs dig a bit deeper than the SS-18s used to, but I haven't tried forcing a "flat to 10Hz" curve on them yet and then seeing what kind of SPL I can get at the lower end.


Together, though, the subs play very well and I'm getting what I would describe as very smooth, "full" and deep bass, with more tactile effect than I've ever experienced (without even having to run the subs as hot as I used to).


1. I'll try to post a couple of graphs tonight.
2. If I get tired of quad subs (I can't see that happening any time soon), my next step would be to try ported cabs for the UXLs and see how a pair would compare to what I've got right now.
Good to know that reality is fairly close to the ULF score estimate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eljaycanuck View Post
Here's the graph (+/-3dB to 16Hz, 80Hz x-over), with:
- yellow = SS-18s (Aud off)
- green = UXLs (Aud off)
- red = all subs (Aud off)
- black = all subs (Aud on)
Quote:
Originally Posted by eljaycanuck View Post
No, that's room positioning. Here's a graph of the UXLs in those spots vs. the SS-18s in the same spots a few months ago:
- Audyssey off
- black = UXLs (w/ 80Hz x-over)
- red = SS-18s (w/ 200Hz x-over)
I still think there's something wrong with your setup or measuring gear. That drop is very strange...and you can't EQ through it? Have you tried playing with the phase real time? I would play with the phase until the dip goes away, and then eq the other parts of your response until you are flat.
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Old 09-16-2014, 07:54 PM
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I'll try playing with phase, but that dip has always been there, whether it's been one sub or two up front, ported or sealed.


The only time the dip hasn't been there was when I forced a "flat to 10Hz" curve onto the SS-18s - see details in this post.

Last edited by eljaycanuck; 09-17-2014 at 05:11 AM.
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Old 09-16-2014, 08:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dominguez1 View Post
Nice cubalis, and good timing...

I had asked mk to run a sim of the lmsr-15 this weekend. He said at 20hz and below, it was only .5 db off from the 18in SI! Very impressive for a 15in sub...

I'll post the SI conversion later on this evening and will get it in the next update.


I'll say again...damn impressive for a 15in driver!
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Old 09-16-2014, 09:42 PM
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Laugsbach,
Nice! Can you post what gear you have and what boost you added with what EQ? I mean what processor, amp, EQ, etc.

For example mine was flat, no EQ, pioneer elite SC-81 and Sanway FP14K. I am going to buy 4 more SI's, 8 on the way, for my front wall and have been wondering what amp to use.
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Old 09-17-2014, 06:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post
Laugsbach,
Nice! Can you post what gear you have and what boost you added with what EQ? I mean what processor, amp, EQ, etc.
Thanks MK...

I am going to put my LONG answer in spoilers...

Spoiler!
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Old 09-17-2014, 06:55 AM
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Originally Posted by dominguez1 View Post
Umm, when can I get a demo please? Upgradeitus still runs through your blood with that kind of response???
Yeah...I need you over for a demo next week!!!

Upgradeitus will never leave me...
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Old 09-18-2014, 12:09 AM
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I just discovered something weird, when I open my theater doors my response becomes flatter and deeper, 3hz deeper. Took me 1.5 years to just discover this tonight.
The room volume becomes the volume of the earth when I do this. (Opens to the world).

Red is mains, Blue is 8 more subs added.

Puzzling...
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Old 09-18-2014, 05:15 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BassThatHz View Post
I just discovered something weird, when I open my theater doors my response becomes flatter and deeper, 3hz deeper. Took me 1.5 years to just discover this tonight.
The room volume becomes the volume of the earth when I do this. (Opens to the world).

Red is mains, Blue is 8 more subs added.

Puzzling...
Perhaps your room becomes a big ported sub (Helmholtz Resonator) with a very low tune?
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Old 09-18-2014, 05:32 AM
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just moved one of my xs30's next to my HT seats (MLP) and ordered a buttkicker LFE...what does that do to my ratings if anything?

Panasonic 65VT30 | Panasonic AE8000 HD PJ | Denon x4100 ATMOS 5.2.4| Emotiva XPA-5 | PSA MT110 x 3 FL/C/FR | PSB B4's | DUAL PSA XS30 | OPPO 103 | minidsp | Buttkicker LFE

the SadieMax HT build thread - my first build
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Old 09-18-2014, 06:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BassThatHz View Post
I just discovered something weird, when I open my theater doors my response becomes flatter and deeper, 3hz deeper. Took me 1.5 years to just discover this tonight.
The room volume becomes the volume of the earth when I do this. (Opens to the world).

Red is mains, Blue is 8 more subs added.

Puzzling...
I have read in the past that people have the thing going on in their rooms. Kind of reminds me of my car stereo days. If you roll the window down a little bit, the subs sounded louder and deeper. Of course back then I did not have measuring equipment or even the thought of measuring to confirm this.

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Old 09-18-2014, 06:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BassThatHz View Post
I just discovered something weird, when I open my theater doors my response becomes flatter and deeper, 3hz deeper. Took me 1.5 years to just discover this tonight.
The room volume becomes the volume of the earth when I do this. (Opens to the world).

Red is mains, Blue is 8 more subs added.

Puzzling...
I discovered something similar years ago when I was measuring my response at the MLP. If I just leave my HT door cracked a few inches, I get about 2db more output at 15hz and below (my subs drop off around 12-13hz anyway). I always leave it cracked now.

JVC 3D: Been there, done that, bought a DLP
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Old 09-18-2014, 07:48 AM
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You just increased the box so you are making it closer to IB which raises the sensitivity down low and lowers the F3 but the same power may blow them up. IB's require much less power so you will lose a little up top.
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Old 09-18-2014, 07:26 PM
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So basically you are saying that I've turned my entire room into a giant subwoofer box that you sit inside and the door is now the port, but with all the inefficiencies of a sealed.
I thought that might be the case...

Like a poorly-implemented IB, or some sort of cat-lady ported sub of death?
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Old 09-18-2014, 07:48 PM
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some sort of cat-lady ported sub of death?
Now THAT is a good title for a build thread!
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Old 09-18-2014, 09:21 PM
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dominguez1

Can you update mine, please? I measured my room, and I was off on my dimensions. My room is 3984 cuft which would give me 4.5 stars @ 12hz, and 3.5 stars @10hz if I calculated correctly.

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Old 09-19-2014, 09:42 AM
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Dom,
You need a spot o the calculator for 5Hz! My most power is there as I am building my new sub system to increase sensitivity where I drop off with my signal chain. I am building 12 ported SI's tuned to 6hz. I will power 4 drivers each with a channel of a peavey IPR2 7500 and the other two with my Sanway FP14K. The rear subs are on risers and nearfield tuned to 6hz as well. 4 drivers back there and 8 up front like before as this keeps amp channels and wiring more simple. I will end up with 24 Si's at 4hz, 48 Si's at 5hz, 24 Si's at 10hz, and 18 Si's above. This way I use less amp power and I won't need a LT boost at all. This will also give me a natural house curve below 10hz. My drivers are in and my Peavy will be in next week.
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Old 09-19-2014, 12:10 PM
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Dom needs to make a 6th Star based on the Threshold of Pain for that frequency, I'm getting bored with this "wimpy" 5 Star stuff, we need a target to endeavour.

and instead of measuring by SI's, start measuring by UXL's say...
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Old 09-19-2014, 12:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BassThatHz View Post
Dom needs to make a 6th Star based on the Threshold of Pain for that frequency, I'm getting bored with this "wimpy" 5 Star stuff, we need a target to endeavour.

and instead of measuring by SI's, start measuring by UXL's say...

It does not matter which driver he uses, it all comes out the same. I don't care about raising my above 20hz stuff as that is too loud for my room in sealed form, I just love the LT boost effects but my 20 amp breakers start tripping. When I run my subs hot with a LT boost, and I know it is not accurate, it feels so awesome. Doing this will give me the same effect except without tripping the breakers!
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Old 09-19-2014, 12:25 PM
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Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post
It does not matter which driver he uses, it all comes out the same. I don't care about raising my above 20hz stuff as that is too loud for my room in sealed form, I just love the LT boost effects but my 20 amp breakers start tripping. When I run my subs hot with a LT boost, and I know it is not accurate, it feels so awesome. Doing this will give me the same effect except without tripping the breakers!
Is it the vibration or the power draw that is tripping them?

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Old 09-19-2014, 12:30 PM
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I am being crazy but it happened once during Lone Survivor and I was running hot with a LT boost!
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Old 09-19-2014, 12:31 PM
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Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post
I will power 4 drivers each with a channel of a peavey IPR2 7500 and the other two with my Sanway FP14K.
MK,

I'm dying to hear your impression of the IPR2 7500 compared to the clone.
I need to buy another amp (My EP4000 is dying) and am aiming at the another FP10000Q.

But my 2nd choice is the 7500 and so what you have to say will greatly influence my decision.
Thanks in advance

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Old 09-19-2014, 12:38 PM
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It all depends on the rolloff! If I am flat to the same with the 14K then it is a winner. I don't use all the clone power anyways, I just want the low end extension from them.
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Old 09-19-2014, 01:12 PM
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The problem with the 7500 is that you loose the sensitivity and limiter adjustments.
If you run one amp per sub you get 7500watts, the only question is: down to what frequency?
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Old 09-19-2014, 01:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post
It does not matter which driver he uses, it all comes out the same. I don't care about raising my above 20hz stuff as that is too loud for my room in sealed form, I just love the LT boost effects but my 20 amp breakers start tripping. When I run my subs hot with a LT boost, and I know it is not accurate, it feels so awesome. Doing this will give me the same effect except without tripping the breakers!
Have you tried replacing the breaker? Once they've been tripped a few times, they start to weaken and trip easier. It's possible you aren't getting a real 20A through them anymore. (By no means is this a recommendation to change course. Keep on keepin' on! Just a recommendation to also replace the breaker.)
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Old 09-19-2014, 01:36 PM
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It tripped once. Trust me, I was using too much power. I ran the 1 minute scene from Lone survivor which is 6-7hz. I was running my IB 10 dBs hot with a LT boost! Lots of power. The Sanway did not even clip. I use the I only need two channels at 1000 watts each to reach X-max for my 4 drivers. A IPR2 3000 could probably do the job and I can get that next door for $400. The biggest benefit to having so many drivers is so you don't come close to X-max and stay very clean all the time. To reach x-max my subs need 1000 watts each and my wall needs 2000 watts. 4000 watts total and the clone alone could easily do that, I just can't wire them all as one.
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Old 09-20-2014, 07:17 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Fineberg View Post
just moved one of my xs30's next to my HT seats (MLP) and ordered a buttkicker LFE...what does that do to my ratings if anything?
Doesn't change your score, but it does change your ULF card. Under that Tactile Feedback FX you'd list:
  • Nearfield Sealed
    Buttkicker LFE
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toe View Post
I discovered something similar years ago when I was measuring my response at the MLP. If I just leave my HT door cracked a few inches, I get about 2db more output at 15hz and below (my subs drop off around 12-13hz anyway). I always leave it cracked now.
Hmmm...will have to try this! I know when I open my windows in the car, there is a bass frequency that attenuated.

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Originally Posted by ellisr63 View Post
dominguez1

Can you update mine, please? I measured my room, and I was off on my dimensions. My room is 3984 cuft which would give me 4.5 stars @ 12hz, and 3.5 stars @10hz if I calculated correctly.
Got it. Will be doing a calculator update this weekend, and will update your score.
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Old 09-20-2014, 08:56 AM
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Ok thanks!!
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Old 09-20-2014, 10:16 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post
Dom,
You need a spot o the calculator for 5Hz! My most power is there as I am building my new sub system to increase sensitivity where I drop off with my signal chain. I am building 12 ported SI's tuned to 6hz. I will power 4 drivers each with a channel of a peavey IPR2 7500 and the other two with my Sanway FP14K. The rear subs are on risers and nearfield tuned to 6hz as well. 4 drivers back there and 8 up front like before as this keeps amp channels and wiring more simple. I will end up with 24 Si's at 4hz, 48 Si's at 5hz, 24 Si's at 10hz, and 18 Si's above. This way I use less amp power and I won't need a LT boost at all. This will also give me a natural house curve below 10hz. My drivers are in and my Peavy will be in next week.
I may make at least a place for it on the ULF card. It's in the member scores. I haven't done that yet because I really don't have any data on the performance subs at 5hz. I've made assumptions that it is just 12db down from the 10hz score. Even still, 5hz is more of a signal chain thing IMO. That's why you have to post your FR to join the club...

That's still cray that nearfield you get that low. Did you mention that you think you have a single digit resonancy in your riser as well???

Looking forward to reading more about your new setup!
Quote:
Originally Posted by BassThatHz View Post
Dom needs to make a 6th Star based on the Threshold of Pain for that frequency, I'm getting bored with this "wimpy" 5 Star stuff, we need a target to endeavour.

and instead of measuring by SI's, start measuring by UXL's say...
LOL! What db is the threshold for pain in the ULF range? Just curious...
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Old 09-20-2014, 01:27 PM
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MK I am going to have to come check out your theater some day if you really have that kind of single digit output.

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Old 09-20-2014, 05:23 PM
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I have a peak at 7hz where my seats are located now. Whenever 7hz hits you can feel air hitting your arms from behind. Tuning at 6hz will just increase this effect. I install the 8 drivers up front tomorrow!

Dom, I can tell you already that just the sealed near field subs alone feel like 16 of the front wall or running the front wall 12 dBs hot!
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