Your Home Theater ULF Score - Page 95 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #2821 of 2850 Old 01-18-2015, 01:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Fineberg View Post
Cool

How do you tune a port? Those are waaaaay to big for my place
You don't tune the port. Port tune is what the sub is supposed to play down to before roll off begins. Port tune is made up of driver parameters, box size, port size, and amplification. Simulations can help you decide on your dimensions and amplification.
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post #2822 of 2850 Old 01-18-2015, 02:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post
I thought the data-bass 18.1 numbers are for the passive unit using Josh's amp?
Hmmm, good point. I'll look at db to see how many volts it was given...I'm guessing it wasn't that much relatively speaking, meaning the speaker power amp would have enough juice to compensate for the small box.
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post #2823 of 2850 Old 01-18-2015, 03:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dominguez1 View Post
Time to estimate a couple of more subs' ULF performance:

Triax T-18
Reaction Audio PS-18x

Similar to the Chase Subs, the T-18 run a variant of the Eminence 18. Perhaps a starting point would be 3 Chase 18.1 (or 1.5 18.2s)?



For the PS-18X, perhaps similar performance to the UXL?



Thoughts? Sounds pretty reasonable to me.
Supposedly the new T-18 has a bit more output than the original triax but I haven't seen any data posted yet. Someone mentioned they were told 1.5 more db's across the board. According to your estimates it is less powerful. I thought I heard Ricci was going to get one to test.
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post #2824 of 2850 Old 01-18-2015, 04:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by raynist View Post
Supposedly the new T-18 has a bit more output than the original triax but I haven't seen any data posted yet. Someone mentioned they were told 1.5 more db's across the board. According to your estimates it is less powerful. I thought I heard Ricci was going to get one to test.
I would agree that it has more overall output, but my guess that's more in the bass and upper bass ranges given what we've seen of the chase 18in eminence. In fact, it probably has some MASSIVE output in the upper ranges.

But, it wouldn't surprise me if this does have less output in the ULF range than the prior triax. The box is very small for 3 18's and the eminence driver in the chase wasn't a bottom feeder by any means.

Of course, we're comparing estimates to estimates; so really hard to say.
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post #2825 of 2850 Old Yesterday, 01:01 PM
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I think I did this correctly
There is however no entry for the SI24 in a 15 CUFT sealed box so I just used the IB entry,


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post #2826 of 2850 Old Yesterday, 03:55 PM
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A thing of beauty Sibuna!


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post #2827 of 2850 Old Yesterday, 05:12 PM
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post #2828 of 2850 Unread Yesterday, 07:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sibuna View Post
I think I did this correctly
There is however no entry for the SI24 in a 15 CUFT sealed box so I just used the IB entry,
That's the correct one to use. I'm not sure why I have IB there in the name. It should just be the driver name...I'll fix in the next update. I believe @MKtheater put that sim together. He uses .707 for the box, which I believe is the optimal size? Not a sim person, so not sure what that means...

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Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
A thing of beauty Sibuna!

Solid score for 3 sealed subs! That nearfield 24 must be punishing...does your couch shake for the really low stuff (12.5hz and below)?

If you post your FR down to 5hz, I'll add you to the club and give you the 5hz ULF card badge...
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post #2829 of 2850 Unread Yesterday, 07:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dominguez1 View Post
Time to estimate a couple of more subs' ULF performance:

Triax T-18
Reaction Audio PS-18x

Similar to the Chase Subs, the T-18 run a variant of the Eminence 18. Perhaps a starting point would be 3 Chase 18.1 (or 1.5 18.2s)?



For the PS-18X, perhaps similar performance to the UXL?



Thoughts? Sounds pretty reasonable to me.


Going once....twice....
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post #2830 of 2850 Unread Yesterday, 10:22 PM
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You have been pretty good so far.

AVR-Yamaha A830
amps-5 Adcom 555 in 850 watt monoblock mode
sub amp-Sanway FP14K
LCR-Dual stacked BFM DR-250's
Surrounds- Dual stacked BFM W10's
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dominguez1 View Post
I would agree that it has more overall output, but my guess that's more in the bass and upper bass ranges given what we've seen of the chase 18in eminence. In fact, it probably has some MASSIVE output in the upper ranges.

But, it wouldn't surprise me if this does have less output in the ULF range than the prior triax. The box is very small for 3 18's and the eminence driver in the chase wasn't a bottom feeder by any means.

Of course, we're comparing estimates to estimates; so really hard to say.
I am not sure where the T-18 driver was mentioned being similar to the Chase subs, but they are not. The drivers are sourced from Eminence and that is where the similarities end. If you speak with Tom he will mention the T-18 increased output 1.5 across the board. I can tell you that it takes roughly 2 XV30se to slightly out gun a single T-18 in the 16-20hz range. At least this what we discussed in the past.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post
You have been pretty good so far.
no way does the PS-18x have more output then a T-18.

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Now I have to look up what they are lol. I am just talking about 10hz. Many drivers look great in Winisd and specs until they are actually measured and many fall off down low or don't even pass. Of course the room helps tremendously down low to bring distortion down.

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OK, I would bet and give the benefit of the doubt until tested that the T-18 will be like 3 Dayton HO 18 woofs and the PS-18x would be like 2 UM-18 drivers, maybe Cap drivers based on the RMS handling.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post
OK, I would bet and give the benefit of the doubt until tested that the T-18 will be like 3 Dayton HO 18 woofs and the PS-18x would be like 2 UM-18 drivers, maybe Cap drivers based on the RMS handling.
Yes and the T-18 amp is pushing 4k watts where the PS18x is pushing 2k watts. You only get the 4k watts when you add the slave.

The T-18 should have a 4-5db advantage over a PS18x. Add the master/slave then you have a pretty even match up. Adavantage going to the PS18 master/slave if you stacked them.

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Well, we know what the HO drivers can do but we don't on the UM yet, or Cap driver. We do know the UXL-18 but I doubt those drivers are going to be that good but you never know. Having 3 Dayton drivers with 4000 watts might not equal what Dom has estimated so he might be giving some spl there. Ricci used lots of watts to get what he did so the amp at 4000 watts means you only add the drivers which is 92.9 dBs at 10hz which is lower than the estimate. Now if the clone was used you could get 3 more dBs out of it. Of course these are all max numbers and once reference is reached the differences are distortion and extension in the room.

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We do not even know if the T-18 driver is comparable to a HO...so lets not go any further until we know more....Same goes for the PS-18x.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
Yes and the T-18 amp is pushing 4k watts where the PS18x is pushing 2k watts. You only get the 4k watts when you add the slave.

The T-18 should have a 4-5db advantage over a PS18x. Add the master/slave then you have a pretty even match up. Adavantage going to the PS18 master/slave if you stacked them.
We also don't know if PSA has any limiters setup in the amp, so we can't say for sure if those drivers are getting the full force of that SP amp. I asked Tom about it a while ago and his response was something to the effect of "it's a fine balancing act using the DSP" so some how I don't think the drivers are seeing full power in the ULF stuff below 20hz otherwise people might be cooking drivers.


So until either sub is tested it's hard to tell for sure, and PSA really hasn't given much info on the new drivers other then they are Eminence drivers. They do appear from the outside to look the same as the ones that Chase/Chane audio is using in their new SBE-118 passive subs though.
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Hey it is all a guess and trying to guess right is part of the fun. The submersive and caps are on here and they were never measured at DB.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post
Hey it is all a guess and trying to guess right is part of the fun. The submersive and caps are on here and they were never measured at DB.

I wish that they were sent in to be measured. Jeremy from Reaction Audio said that he was going to send in his PS-18x to get measured. Kudos to him for doing this! I don't know how it stacks up to a JTR S1, but it is still intriguing. I think that I remember Mark at Seaton saying recently that he was going to send in a submersive. Might be wrong about that. I need to go back and read his post again where he is talking to Craig John.

EDIT: I went back and re-read his post and Mark Seaton did say that he would send his product in for testing sometime this year.

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Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post
Well, we know what the HO drivers can do but we don't on the UM yet, or Cap driver. We do know the UXL-18 but I doubt those drivers are going to be that good but you never know. Having 3 Dayton drivers with 4000 watts might not equal what Dom has estimated so he might be giving some spl there. Ricci used lots of watts to get what he did so the amp at 4000 watts means you only add the drivers which is 92.9 dBs at 10hz which is lower than the estimate. Now if the clone was used you could get 3 more dBs out of it. Of course these are all max numbers and once reference is reached the differences are distortion and extension in the room.

I think it's fair to say that the PS18x driver is every bit as good as the UXL driver, maybe even a little better. But at the very least on par, the specs are extremely similar and a nice thing with the PS18's driver is that it has copper shorting rings which the UXL's don't.


It'll be nice to get the T-18 and the PS18x tested by Josh though, I know he can't test them during the winter though but I know that Jeremy wants to send him a few subs to test in the spring and the PS18x is one of them.
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Better than the UXL? There are only a few drivers that have measured better including the LMS-5400 when 10hz or ULF is concerned.

Where are they sourced?
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Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post
Better than the UXL? There are only a few drivers that have measured better including the LMS-5400 when 10hz or ULF is concerned.

Where are they sourced?
They are custom made Paul Pierce audio drivers.
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I never heard of that name, from where?
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Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post
I never heard of that name, from where?

Google search Paul Pierce Audio


really nice drivers. The drivers in the PS18x are a legit driver right up there with the UXL and LMS-U. RA is trying to make a name for themselves so they aren't cheapen out with the quality of components used in the PS18x. High excursion triple stack magnetic motor with copper shorting rings.


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Nice, still need to prove they are better from DB, or for this threads purposes.
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Nice, still need to prove they are better from DB, or for this threads purposes.

Agreed, but so much of this thread is unproven to begin with.
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Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post
I think it's fair to say that the PS18x driver is every bit as good as the UXL driver, maybe even a little better. But at the very least on par, the specs are extremely similar and a nice thing with the PS18's driver is that it has copper shorting rings which the UXL's don't.


It'll be nice to get the T-18 and the PS18x tested by Josh though, I know he can't test them during the winter though but I know that Jeremy wants to send him a few subs to test in the spring and the PS18x is one of them.
The UXL has aluminum shorting rings.

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The UXL has aluminum shorting rings.

You are correct Scott, how would copper vs aluminum shorting rings compare?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dominguez1 View Post
That's the correct one to use. I'm not sure why I have IB there in the name. It should just be the driver name...I'll fix in the next update. I believe @MKtheater put that sim together. He uses .707 for the box, which I believe is the optimal size? Not a sim person, so not sure what that means...


Solid score for 3 sealed subs! That nearfield 24 must be punishing...does your couch shake for the really low stuff (12.5hz and below)?

If you post your FR down to 5hz, I'll add you to the club and give you the 5hz ULF card badge...
my mic/signal chain really isn't good that low. i drop pretty hard ~9 Hz
this is the last measurement i had from when i set the 24 up. i think these were taken at -15

http://www.rootminus1.com/admin/AVS/SI24/aftereq3.JPG

and the entire house shakes, this stuff is on the 3rd floor of an old house
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