Keep order for DSW PRO 660 or order XV15 or VTF-15H? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 44 Old 08-28-2013, 11:42 AM - Thread Starter
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I just received the following Polk Audio speakers.
2 x RTiA9
1 x CSiA6
2 x F/XiA6

I have the Polk DSW PRO 660 on order, but it is out of stock.

I know from others that the Polk isn't that good but I'm getting it for $355 new. I want it to be good enough because spending less is good. But if in the end it isn't going to support the rest of the speakers, it will just be a waste of money.

So, right now, I'm trying to decide if I should bite the bullet and spend over twice as much and get a better sub. And if I did which one would be the better choice for the money. The XV15 or the VTF-15H. Either one is going to be a tight fit in my room.

Thoughts? Thanks in advance.
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post #2 of 44 Old 08-28-2013, 11:47 AM
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I have the Polk DSW PRO 660 on order, but it is out of stock.

Thank your lucky stars or else you'd have wasted $335 by now.

I'll put my money into XV15. Your maximum HT budget should flow into quality subs.
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post #3 of 44 Old 08-28-2013, 01:10 PM
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Try to pick up the September issue of Sound&Vision magazine. Of the 5 subs in the ~$800 price range, the XV15 was the output champ. Using CEA 2010 measurement Low Bass, the XV 15 put out 125.from 20- db (from 40-63Hz. For Ultra Low Bass, (20-31.5db, the XV15 measured 116..2 db. Unfortunately, listeners have varying priorities. Some listeners might favor the sound of a sealed sub for various reasons. That is why Power Sound Audio also sells sealed subs.

If you want the deepest, loudest bass for $799, the XV15 is hard to beat. From the article., The whole room pulsated almost as if sort of monster had plucked my house off the slab,and began shaking it like a toy.'

In the article, some of the listeners, (besides Brent Butterworth) who were part of the listening panel, had other prefereneces in the group of 5 subs. So, if you want house shaking bass, the XV15 should please you.
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post #4 of 44 Old 08-28-2013, 01:28 PM
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If space is an issue take a look at another sub in that issue, the SVS PC12. Takes up only about 17 square inches of floor space. SVS had an outlet model for $649.

Not as much output as the XV15 but still much more and goes much lower than the Polk.
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post #5 of 44 Old 08-28-2013, 02:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by spyboy View Post

Try to pick up the September issue of Sound&Vision magazine. Of the 5 subs in the ~$800 price range, the XV15 was the output champ. Using CEA 2010 measurement Low Bass, the XV 15 put out 125.from 20- db (from 40-63Hz. For Ultra Low Bass, (20-31.5db, the XV15 measured 116..2 db. Unfortunately, listeners have varying priorities. Some listeners might favor the sound of a sealed sub for various reasons. That is why Power Sound Audio also sells sealed subs.

If you want the deepest, loudest bass for $799, the XV15 is hard to beat. From the article., The whole room pulsated almost as if sort of monster had plucked my house off the slab,and began shaking it like a toy.'

In the article, some of the listeners, (besides Brent Butterworth) who were part of the listening panel, had other prefereneces in the group of 5 subs. So, if you want house shaking bass, the XV15 should please you.

Yeah, i have that issue. That is why I'm considering the XV15. It sounds like a great sub!

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Originally Posted by Kini62 View Post

If space is an issue take a look at another sub in that issue, the SVS PC12. Takes up only about 17 square inches of floor space. SVS had an outlet model for $649.

Not as much output as the XV15 but still much more and goes much lower than the Polk.

Due to the space I have and the price, I probably would get the SVS PC12. But I'm seriously scared my cat would use it as a scratching post! It shaped just like the one he uses.

I'm going to measure my space in a few minutes and see how much I have to work with.
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post #6 of 44 Old 08-28-2013, 02:30 PM
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I think the DSW660 is a good buy for that price...but if you are second guessing, might aswell get a ID sub and have no regrets. PC12 or XV15 would both be great choices.
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post #7 of 44 Old 08-28-2013, 02:49 PM
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You might consider this Dayton dual driver kit. It's a bit more expensive then the XV15 and a bit less expensive than the VTF15h (unless you live near Hsu and can do pick up), but it has higher quality components than either. You do have to assemble it, but that is very easy, all you have to do is glue in the damping, screw in the amp and connect it to the driver then screw in the driver and you are done. You only need a screwdriver, some glue, and maybe an hour of assembly time. I think the driver used in that kit would be considerably higher quality than the XV15 and VTF15h driver, and you get two such drivers, plus a much more powerful amplifier. I don't see anything at $1k that can compete with it.
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post #8 of 44 Old 08-28-2013, 02:52 PM - Thread Starter
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I measured and I can make any of them fit. I'll just have to remove some decorations from the room. They aren't needed. I have about 23'' x 35'' to work with.

Although I will be limited which way I could position the VTF-15H. As it will only fit one way.

I guess I need to read some guides on sub placement. Either way I go.

Although it seems everyone says go with the XV15.

Thanks to everyone who has shared so far.
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post #9 of 44 Old 08-28-2013, 02:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

I think the DSW660 is a good buy for that price...but if you are second guessing, might aswell get a ID sub and have no regrets. PC12 or XV15 would both be great choices.

I'm second guessing because I can't find anyone (short of amazon reviews) that seems to say it is any good. BUT this will probably be my last speakers upgrade/update until I build a true Home Theater in my basement. And that probably won't be till my daughters are out of college!

But I don't want to spend any more money than I need to. So I want the most value.
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post #10 of 44 Old 08-28-2013, 03:39 PM
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Originally Posted by ColdBrew View Post

I'm second guessing because I can't find anyone (short of amazon reviews) that seems to say it is any good. BUT this will probably be my last speakers upgrade/update until I build a true Home Theater in my basement. And that probably won't be till my daughters are out of college!

But I don't want to spend any more money than I need to. So I want the most value.

I have owned and herd several Polk subs over the years in several different models. None of them even come close to the XV15. If you can spend the money DO IT, you will not regret. When I upgraded my polk speaker system 2yrs ago to RTI A7, CSI A4, and last week FXI A6, I spoke to Kim Jasper @ Polk Audio over the phone. I was going to buy a DSW Pro 660, however he said go with the PSW505 and save some coin. So I bought 2 of them, while they had plenty of mid bass boom, I actually preferred to listen to my A7's with no subs because the accuracy was not there in the 505's. Also they do not extend much deeper then the A7's. So 5mo ago I decided to try internet direct and purchased a pair of XV15's from PSA...and all I can say is WOW! Clean, deep, and powerful bass. Now if I turn my subs off the A7's sound anemic. The XV15's compliment the A7's in both HT and music. It was worth the extra coin no doubt in my mind. I have listened to my HT setup more in the last 5mo then I have in the last 5yrs combined. Quality subs make or break a system, its no place to skimp. I would buy lesser main speakers before skimping on the sub.
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post #11 of 44 Old 08-28-2013, 04:20 PM
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post #12 of 44 Old 08-28-2013, 04:37 PM
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Hell yeah the SDX12, but that driver costs almost 2x the Dayton driver. Any sub with that in it will probably cost at least $1k alone, but it it make for a hell of a 12" sub. I wouldn't be surprised if that driver were equal or better than the SVS Plus drivers. The Daytons are nothing to sneeze at though, check out the BL, Mms, Q, and Fs. But hell, while we are fantasizing about 12"s, why not go straight up to this bad boy?
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post #13 of 44 Old 08-28-2013, 05:49 PM
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^^^ I could go on about the SDX and what’s available, but this isn't the place for it imo. It’s hard to see you keep suggesting those kits even though they’re not really DIY. So much more can be achieved for $100 more using two SDX’s... back to reg programing

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post #14 of 44 Old 08-28-2013, 06:08 PM
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Originally Posted by steve nn View Post

^^^ I could go on about the SDX and what’s available, but this isn't the place for it imo. It’s hard to see you keep suggesting those kits even though they’re not really DIY. So much more can be achieved for $100 more using two SDX’s... back to reg programing

Yea he totally missed your point lol.
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post #15 of 44 Old 08-28-2013, 07:22 PM
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Originally Posted by steve nn View Post

^^^ I could go on about the SDX and what’s available, but this isn't the place for it imo. It’s hard to see you keep suggesting those kits even though they’re not really DIY. So much more can be achieved for $100 more using two SDX’s... back to reg programing

Lol, I don't regard the kits as DIY either, which is why I suggest them. For the same price as that kit, you could do way better in the world of DIY, but at that point it turns into a big project. Those kits are not big projects at all. Anyone could do them. It's a shame they get overlooked because a tiny bit of assembly is required, because you know they have some big advantages over the finished subs of the same price.
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post #16 of 44 Old 08-28-2013, 11:20 PM
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while we are fantasizing about 12"s, why not go straight up to this bad boy?

I don't think that is a bad boy; more like an average joe. In a ported alignment an F3 of just 40Hz which won't drop below 35Hz after break-in, I don't think this driver will be any good in movies. Even in the sensitivity department alone (85dB) one will require at least 4 drivers to be of some use in terms of SPL. The rubber surrounds look scary; but what the hec ..... only 16mm Xmax???
I think the only drivers worth buying from TC Sounds are 3000 and LMS Ultra 5400.
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Originally Posted by braveheart123 View Post

I don't think that is a bad boy; more like an average joe. In a ported alignment an F3 of just 40Hz which won't drop below 35Hz after break-in, I don't think this driver will be any good in movies. Even in the sensitivity department alone (85dB) one will require at least 4 drivers to be of some use in terms of SPL. The rubber surrounds look scary; but what the hec ..... only 16mm Xmax???
I think the only drivers worth buying from TC Sounds are 3000 and LMS Ultra 5400.

It has a nice low Q and a nice high BL, I think its sound quality would be tight. Yeah, it doesn't look like the best sub for deep frequencies, but still its definitely still better than your average 12" for that. That driver would be about sound quality.
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post #18 of 44 Old 08-28-2013, 11:54 PM
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I think SVS PB12-NSD (one box solution) @ $769 is a better option and will outperform this tc.

$436 for the driver, an iNuke 1000DSP for $249 without shipping, roughly $30 for the 19mm mdf sheet, and $40 for miscellaneous (12 AWG cable, binding posts, glue).......it all adds up to $755 and still the whole project depends on the wood working skills of the OP. I think it's a big gamble

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post #19 of 44 Old 08-29-2013, 05:37 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the suggestions guys/gals (whatever you are), I'm going to call and cancel my Polk sub order when they open this morning and place an order for a XV15.
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post #20 of 44 Old 08-29-2013, 06:04 AM
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You won't regret your decision. Who could refuse a mustang for a ford fiesta?

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post #21 of 44 Old 08-29-2013, 06:12 AM
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Thanks for the suggestions guys/gals

btw how many girls/women are there on this forum?? I think there should be a poll

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post #22 of 44 Old 08-29-2013, 07:01 AM
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Originally Posted by ColdBrew View Post

Thanks for the suggestions guys/gals (whatever you are), I'm going to call and cancel my Polk sub order when they open this morning and place an order for a XV15.

Nice choice, Congrats! Let us know what you think if you can find the time.

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post #23 of 44 Old 08-29-2013, 07:10 AM - Thread Starter
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Another reason I canceled the order is because I finally got my mains bi-amped and the center connected and I could no longer even detect my old sub. The new RTiA9's seem to over power it. I figured I'm going to need a good sub to keep up.

I canceled the Polk sub order and I've placed the order for the XV15.

I'm thinking that an amp upgrade is need in my future, but that is going to have to wait a bit. I've spent so much money in the past couple of weeks. New TV (TCP60VT60) and speakers, plus misc other parts and pieces to make it all work.
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post #24 of 44 Old 08-29-2013, 07:17 AM
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Little off subject here Coldbrew, but have you thought of a cold brew for your Avatar? That would be quite fitting imo. wink.gif

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post #25 of 44 Old 08-29-2013, 07:38 AM - Thread Starter
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Little off subject here Coldbrew, but have you thought of a cold brew for your Avatar? That would be quite fitting imo. wink.gif

You would think since I've been registered since 2002, I would have changed my profile pic... Maybe I'll put that on my to do list. smile.gif
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post #26 of 44 Old 08-29-2013, 07:43 AM
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You would think since I've been registered since 2002, I would have changed my profile pic... Maybe I'll put that on my to do list. smile.gif

WHOOPS! LOL.. I didn’t notice that. Ok sorry if I stepped out of line. That's funny! biggrin.gif

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post #27 of 44 Old 08-29-2013, 07:57 AM
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coldbrew...........you are wasting money on amp for your mains if there is a sub in your system esp for movies. Also, passive bi-amping offers nothing but an extra run of cables.

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post #28 of 44 Old 08-29-2013, 01:11 PM - Thread Starter
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coldbrew...........you are wasting money on amp for your mains if there is a sub in your system esp for movies. Also, passive bi-amping offers nothing but an extra run of cables.

I use them for movies, music, and mostly gaming.

I think there was a huge difference IMHO after I bi-amped them. I was able to double the wattage to the mains from 110 to 220.

Why do you think that bi-amping offers nothing?
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post #29 of 44 Old 08-29-2013, 03:09 PM
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I use them for movies, music, and mostly gaming.

I think there was a huge difference IMHO after I bi-amped them. I was able to double the wattage to the mains from 110 to 220.

Why do you think that bi-amping offers nothing?

"Passive bi-amping

Passive bi-amping (also known as "fools bi-amping" for good reason) requires loudspeakers with the dual binding posts used for bi-wiring, again with the shorting bar removed. The difference (and profit advantage for the retailer) is that it requires two stereo power amplifiers, instead of one, and an additional pair of speaker cables. (Can you guess who is getting fooled by passive bi-amping?)

In passive bi-amping, the output from the pre-amplifier is fed to a pair of identical stereo power amps. All four amplifier channels are fed the same, full range, signal from the pre-amp. This is important, so take note of it. The output of the power amps is fed to the stereo loudspeakers, the left and right outputs of one power amp to the left and right loudspeakers' high frequency binding posts and the left and right outputs of the other power amp to the left and right loudspeakers' low frequency binding posts. We now have the same, full range signal everywhere. The high frequency part of each loudspeaker's passive internal crossover is doing what it always does with a full range signal, as is the low frequency part of each loudspeaker's crossover.

From the listener's perspective, if all goes well, the sound quality should remain exactly the same. However, the placebo effect insures that most folks who passively bi-amp their music systems report a sonic improvement."

A pretty good explanation from a quick internet search- smile.gif

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post #30 of 44 Old 08-29-2013, 10:50 PM
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From the listener's perspective, if all goes well, the sound quality should remain exactly the same. However, the placebo effect insures that most folks who passively bi-amp their music systems report a sonic improvement.

Very rightly said..... if you are at fence churning out $600-700 on a stereo amplifier; better buy another xv15. Dual subs are one hec of an investment and you will have very balanced response over a larger listening area.
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