Tutorial: Dual sub integration using the MiniDSP - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 216 Old 09-30-2013, 07:07 PM
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Hey there, pdx.
I realize I could have run a splitter to create a 2-sub input, but I have always operated under the "less connection points, the better" philosophy.
With four identical subs being controlled from DSP, what advantage would the 2-way plug-in have over the 4-way? Why not opt for the 4-way from the get-go in my 4 sub scenario?
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post #32 of 216 Old 09-30-2013, 08:09 PM - Thread Starter
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I for one am glad blah450 manage to try the 4-way Advanced Crossover plugin. It's basically the same structure as the 2-way plugin, but with a 4-way Crossover block that works the same as the 2-way for our purposes: disabling all HPF and LPF transforms it into a 4-way splitter, and thus, this way, no need for a physical splitter.

I suspected there was no problem doing this but I'm also glad to see that one can switch plugins back and forth. Now, perhaps it would be interesting if MiniDSP made a plugind dedicated to subwoofer EQ! rolleyes.gif

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post #33 of 216 Old 09-30-2013, 10:41 PM
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Hey all I want to get into mini dsp, integrate one into my system for more control over my subs. I have no idea what I need, how to hook one up or how to work it. I just got a couple submersives and only have audyssey Multi EQ XT on my Denon 3313. So I know with time delay capabilities would allow me to move subs to different distances to MLP if desired. Also the EQ and boost capabilities. So is a 2x4 enough? And then should I future proof with a higher model? And what is balanced and unbalanced?

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post #34 of 216 Old 09-30-2013, 10:53 PM
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MiniDSP 2x4 balanced w/4-Way advanced plug-in
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post #35 of 216 Old 10-01-2013, 03:08 AM
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Thanks, Neutro.

Posted the following in DIY forum, but then started thinking maybe this was the more appropriate spot?

I built four DA 18" powered by a pair of EP4000 amps.
I have my single sub AVR pre-out signal going to a miniDSP 2x4 Balanced with 4-Way Advanced plug-in.
There is a nasty "thump" from subs when powering down system. This thump is eliminated if I leave the DSP powered on or turn it off after the sub amps are off.
If anyone has a solution that works to easily eliminate thump and power off DSP, please let me know...

otherwise, I have been trying to use the below product to turn DSP off after power is cut to amps/subs, but can't quite seem to figure the darn thing and its mode switches out.

http://www.electronctl.net/Note/BB_1R12A_TM80_1_UG.pdf

If there is another solution to the thump, I'd love to hear it, or at the least, a little assistance with someone in figuring out how to get the relay timer to work in this situation? (or for that matter, WOULD this relay switch work????)

Thanks in advance!!
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post #36 of 216 Old 10-01-2013, 08:56 AM
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Hey Neutro,
Fantastic detailed write up thanks very much. Maybe you can answer on a different minidsp/box use, I've been trying to figure out how to hookup a second pair of side surrounds in order to have two rows. I read Dennis Erskine say he uses in installs a QSC 322 dsp , a much pricier device then minidsp. I realize this thread is about subs but no one seems to be talking about minidsp and surrounds.
If you can please look into it as you have a working knowledge of the mini,maybe get a thread going on the forum.
Thanks!






PeterV
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post #37 of 216 Old 10-01-2013, 09:21 AM
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So where at in the signal chain does a mini DSP go and what do you connect with?

Ok I apologize. I will read through from the beginning tonight.

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post #38 of 216 Old 10-01-2013, 10:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blah450 View Post

Thanks, Neutro.

Posted the following in DIY forum, but then started thinking maybe this was the more appropriate spot?

I built four DA 18" powered by a pair of EP4000 amps.
I have my single sub AVR pre-out signal going to a miniDSP 2x4 Balanced with 4-Way Advanced plug-in.
There is a nasty "thump" from subs when powering down system. This thump is eliminated if I leave the DSP powered on or turn it off after the sub amps are off.
If anyone has a solution that works to easily eliminate thump and power off DSP, please let me know...

otherwise, I have been trying to use the below product to turn DSP off after power is cut to amps/subs, but can't quite seem to figure the darn thing and its mode switches out.

http://www.electronctl.net/Note/BB_1R12A_TM80_1_UG.pdf

If there is another solution to the thump, I'd love to hear it, or at the least, a little assistance with someone in figuring out how to get the relay timer to work in this situation? (or for that matter, WOULD this relay switch work????)

Thanks in advance!!

Do you not want to leave the mini on all the time?

Could you plug the mini into you AVR, and shut it off after the power amps?

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Quote:
Originally Posted by blah450 View Post

Hey there, pdx.
I realize I could have run a splitter to create a 2-sub input, but I have always operated under the "less connection points, the better" philosophy.
With four identical subs being controlled from DSP, what advantage would the 2-way plug-in have over the 4-way? Why not opt for the 4-way from the get-go in my 4 sub scenario?

I was just curious. My AVR has two sub hookups on it, but they are simply split inside the AVR and go to the same place.

I have not played with the 4 way plugin. I have the 2.1 advanced. The only reason I could see one wanting to stay with the 2.1 advanced is because a person has it and not the 4 way. Even though the plugins are rather inexpensive.

I wont have the option to eq my subs individually since I will have one amp (2 channels) powering all four of my enclosures. Kind of a bummer.

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post #40 of 216 Old 10-01-2013, 01:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pdxrealtor View Post

Do you not want to leave the mini on all the time?

Could you plug the mini into you AVR, and shut it off after the power amps?

In the end, I could just leave the DSP powered up...I just like to have everything off when I power down. Maybe I should get over that and be at peace, eh?
I could plug it in to AVR, but single AVR trigger out is what controls amp power, and if I turn amp/trigger off, then power would be cut to DSP.
Almost seems like more headache than it's worth...but now it's almost become a challenge.biggrin.gif
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post #41 of 216 Old 10-04-2013, 01:25 AM
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So where can I get Phoenix to RCA and Phoenix to XLR adapters. It was determined by that I need an output of 2Vrms to drive both of my speaker power 2400 watt amps to full potential and not limit anything. So I plan on buying the balanced 2x4. But I am hoping to hear final confirmation before I place my order smile.gif

"The first step is to set the subwoofer gains (on the sub's amps) at a relatively high level -- the MiniDSP can only attenuate the signal it gets from the AVR. In my own case, this allows me to set the gain on the subwoofers to the maximum setting, as recommended by the manufacturer. All subs can be set to the same gain."

So is this telling me to set my two Submersives Speaker Power amps to maximum gain? And then have them tuned down via the gain within the mini dsp user interface on my tv?

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post #42 of 216 Old 10-04-2013, 05:14 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blah450 View Post

In the end, I could just leave the DSP powered up...

This is what I do -- the MiniDSP consumes very little power anyway and doesn't make any noise. The only LED is internal. So there's little downside in leaving it on.
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So where can I get Phoenix to RCA and Phoenix to XLR adapters.

I assume you're planning on using the balanced 2x4 then. I have no idea where to find adapters, but I guess I'd try partsexpress.com...
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B
"The first step is to set the subwoofer gains (on the sub's amps) at a relatively high level -- the MiniDSP can only attenuate the signal it gets from the AVR. In my own case, this allows me to set the gain on the subwoofers to the maximum setting, as recommended by the manufacturer. All subs can be set to the same gain."

So is this telling me to set my two Submersives Speaker Power amps to maximum gain? And then have them tuned down via the gain within the mini dsp user interface on my tv?

You should ask what is the recommended settings for best performance for your specific subs. All I'm saying is that this is possible with the MiniDSP, not that it's necessarily recommended. In the case of the 800W and 1000W Sledge amps found in SVS subs, using the max gain seeing is recommended, but it's not really gain: it's input attenuation on the amp. The situation may be different with other amps of course.

The other problem with using too high a gain on the sub is as noted above: if this means reducing the signal coming from the AVR to compensate, the auto-on feature of the sub might not work correctly at lower listening levels.

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post #43 of 216 Old 10-04-2013, 05:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post

So where can I get Phoenix to RCA and Phoenix to XLR adapters. I...

 

I believe these should work.

_____

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post #44 of 216 Old 10-04-2013, 05:59 AM
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So where can I get Phoenix to RCA and Phoenix to XLR adapters.

The B&H source that was posted by Axel looks good.

Phoenix connectors are also known as Euroblock connectors. They generally accept stripped wires. The connectors are available from 100's of sources. Google is your friend. One easy way to break the availability blockade for XLR adaptors is to take a regular XLR mic cable (available in a range of lengths up to 100' or more), cut it it in half, and attach connectors of your choice. XLR mic cables are often sold for less than the cost of their connectors and cable at retail.
Quote:
It was determined by that I need an output of 2Vrms to drive both of my speaker power 2400 watt amps to full potential and not limit anything. So I plan on buying the balanced 2x4. But I am hoping to hear final confirmation before I place my order smile.gif

Don't the MiniDSP people answer their phones or email?
Quote:
"The first step is to set the subwoofer gains (on the sub's amps) at a relatively high level -- the MiniDSP can only attenuate the signal it gets from the AVR. In my own case, this allows me to set the gain on the subwoofers to the maximum setting, as recommended by the manufacturer. All subs can be set to the same gain."

Sounds reasonable.
Quote:
So is this telling me to set my two Submersives Speaker Power amps to maximum gain? And then have them tuned down via the gain within the mini dsp user interface on my tv?

The usual rule of thumb is to set outputs for their maximum undistorted output, and set inputs as low as possible and still obtain full output. That way any hum and noise that is picked up the interconnection is minimized.
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post #45 of 216 Old 10-04-2013, 08:01 AM
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When doing this should I have run auddysey before hand?
To run auddysey what should the volume on my sb13 ultra be set to?
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post #46 of 216 Old 10-04-2013, 10:27 AM
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Running Audyssey or any other room calibration software included in receivers should always be the last thing that you do.
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post #47 of 216 Old 10-04-2013, 11:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post

So where can I get Phoenix to RCA and Phoenix to XLR adapters. It was determined by that I need an output of 2Vrms to drive both of my speaker power 2400 watt amps to full potential and not limit anything. So I plan on buying the balanced 2x4. But I am hoping to hear final confirmation before I place my order smile.gif

"The first step is to set the subwoofer gains (on the sub's amps) at a relatively high level -- the MiniDSP can only attenuate the signal it gets from the AVR. In my own case, this allows me to set the gain on the subwoofers to the maximum setting, as recommended by the manufacturer. All subs can be set to the same gain."

So is this telling me to set my two Submersives Speaker Power amps to maximum gain? And then have them tuned down via the gain within the mini dsp user interface on my tv?

I’m curious as to why more people don’t look at the OpenDRC-AN ? Is it the price that turns people away? At least you don’t have to deal with phoenix connectors just xlr’s in’s and xlr out’s. Can be programmed to use your remote to power on/off and select 4 different profiles. Looks cool cool.gif , by remove the jumpers inside you can bump up sensitivity to 6v so should cover most applications. I run 2 SubM's and 2 diy of the unit , works great.

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post #48 of 216 Old 10-04-2013, 11:31 AM
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Don't the MiniDSP people answer their phones or email?

Actually Arnyk they said to post on this forum to bug you smile.gif

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post #49 of 216 Old 10-04-2013, 01:03 PM
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Don't the MiniDSP people answer their phones or email?

Actually Arnyk they said to post on this forum to bug you smile.gif

it takes like 2 weeks to get a email response.
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post #50 of 216 Old 10-04-2013, 01:57 PM
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I researched my way through it. Basically Mark Seaton told me he has the Submersive configured to be ran to full power by about 2Vrms so the 2x4 balanced was a no brainer smile.gif

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post #51 of 216 Old 10-05-2013, 08:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nb67 View Post

I’m curious as to why more people don’t look at the OpenDRC-AN ? Is it the price that turns people away? At least you don’t have to deal with phoenix connectors just xlr’s in’s and xlr out’s. Can be programmed to use your remote to power on/off and select 4 different profiles. Looks cool cool.gif , by remove the jumpers inside you can bump up sensitivity to 6v so should cover most applications. I run 2 SubM's and 2 diy of the unit , works great.

Does that do the same thing the 2x4 does? What is the difference?

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post #52 of 216 Old 10-06-2013, 08:17 AM
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Does that do the same thing the 2x4 does? What is the difference?

Does the same thing, just a lot more user friendly (hardware wise). I guess if you check under the hood it will have a different IC . My friend runs his 4 LMS ultras on it and loves it, prefers it from the SMS-1 mainly because you can control down to 10 Hz.

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post #53 of 216 Old 10-06-2013, 09:21 AM - Thread Starter
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The OpenDRC-AN is a bit more expensive at 299 and according to the specs it has 2 inputs, 2 outputs. There's only one plugin for it, the OpenDRC 2x2 plugin. There are level management for all inputs and outputs, plus two FIR blocks that can be used to implement various room correction algorithms. However I don't think REW can compute the FIR coefficient for the OpenDRC platform; in that regard integration with REW is more limited. I agree this looks like an awesome product though, but it's more aimed at full-band room EQ using the OpenDRC framework. MiniDSP sells additional software such as AcourateDRC ($75) to compute OpenDRC coefficients. If you're more of the hacker type, it's compatible with the (free) Python Open Room Correction (PORC) open-source software library. EDIT: it's also possible to use the rePhase free open-source software to compute the OpenDRC coefficients.

Note that I have no first-hand experience with the OpenDRC products from MiniDSP nor do I have any with the OpenDRC platform; I'm just trying to outline the differences between the MiniDSP and OpenDRC products.

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post #54 of 216 Old 10-06-2013, 10:04 PM
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The OpenDRC-AN is a bit more expensive at 299 and according to the specs it has 2 inputs, 2 outputs. There's only one plugin for it, the OpenDRC 2x2 plugin. There are level management for all inputs and outputs, plus two FIR blocks that can be used to implement various room correction algorithms. However I don't think REW can compute the FIR coefficient for the OpenDRC platform; in that regard integration with REW is more limited. I agree this looks like an awesome product though, but it's more aimed at full-band room EQ using the OpenDRC framework. MiniDSP sells additional software such as AcourateDRC ($75) to compute OpenDRC coefficients. If you're more of the hacker type, it's compatible with the (free) Python Open Room Correction (PORC) open-source software library. EDIT: it's also possible to use the rePhase free open-source software to compute the OpenDRC coefficients.

Note that I have no first-hand experience with the OpenDRC products from MiniDSP nor do I have any with the OpenDRC platform; I'm just trying to outline the differences between the MiniDSP and OpenDRC products.

I run the OpenDRC-AN with the OpenDRC 2x2 ($10) plug in. I have omnimic so took the easier way out to measure results.

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post #55 of 216 Old 10-06-2013, 10:30 PM
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I just got a reply from mini dsp so I can change my order from balanced 2x4 to the Open DRC-AN smile.gif

Noob question but what's the Open DRC 2x2 plug in? I'm only a few days old into learning about mini DSP's smile.gif

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post #56 of 216 Old 10-06-2013, 10:41 PM
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post #57 of 216 Old 10-06-2013, 10:47 PM
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Gotcha!

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post #58 of 216 Old 10-07-2013, 10:03 AM - Thread Starter
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nb67, can you tell us how you're choosing the FIR parameters for the OpenDRC-AN? Do you do it manually, tweaking until you get an appropriate response, or do you use a compatible software to compute OpenDRC filters to correct the response? Or can you somehow use REW for this? I thought REW only computed filter coefficients for the MiniDSP.

EDIT: I see in the OpenDRC 2x2 Plugin datasheet that the data flow goes through a 6-biquad PEQ block as with the MiniDSP, on top of the FIR filter block. So I guess you can use that to enter the REW-computed coefficents and simply not use the FIR blocks?

The OpenDRC 2x2 plugin also has a custom compressor block, which would be really useful for DIY subs using amps without limiters I guess. A very nice product, I'm tempted to buy one just to play with it biggrin.gif

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post #59 of 216 Old 10-07-2013, 10:44 AM
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Yea I'm stoked I got my order changed after the more research I did. The sales guy in Hong Kong was very fast as we exchanged about 4-5 emails.

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post #60 of 216 Old 10-07-2013, 05:13 PM
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Originally Posted by neutro View Post

nb67, can you tell us how you're choosing the FIR parameters for the OpenDRC-AN? Do you do it manually, tweaking until you get an appropriate response, or do you use a compatible software to compute OpenDRC filters to correct the response? Or can you somehow use REW for this? I thought REW only computed filter coefficients for the MiniDSP.

EDIT: I see in the OpenDRC 2x2 Plugin datasheet that the data flow goes through a 6-biquad PEQ block as with the MiniDSP, on top of the FIR filter block. So I guess you can use that to enter the REW-computed coefficents and simply not use the FIR blocks?

You are correct, I use the PEQ to get the desired results. It's done manually but with Omnimic it's realtime results. I have not used REW as I was introduced to the SMS-1 and then Omnimic for room correction. I just wanted to keep it simple as possible.

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