Changing calibration setting for the sub. - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 21 Old 09-05-2013, 11:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Hello! This is my first post. Sorry for my poor english.
Few days before I bought M&K SB 1250 sub. I connected it to LFE (Onkio 708 reciever) and hi-level (Pioneer A-50 amp which i use for front speakers).
For movies, after the calibration, level on the sub is less than ref level on the sub (less than middle of the scale). The reciever set -3dB for the sub.
The problem is that it is not enouth for hi-level. If I use sub for music (reciever is not in use in this case, only amp) I need to increase the level on the back of the sub, somehow remembering position of the level for movies.
The question is:
Can I set the level I need for hi-level connection and than start new calibration. For example reciever at the beginning (then mic starts measuring) shows sub level 85 dB. Then I'll stop calibration and set not -2dB (as now) but -12db in reciever.
In this case I'll have the same level for both connections of my sub.
But I feel that -2dB and less level on the sub and -12dB with more level on the sub is not the same. May be because of the weaker signal from the reciever I'll get worse sound (loss in little details, more distortion).
But may be it is the simple mathematical task and I shouldn't bother?
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post #2 of 21 Old 09-09-2013, 12:00 AM - Thread Starter
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Finally, I marked the level for movies by marking pen and didn't do any changes in the reciever.
For stereo (hi-level connection from the amp) I set the cross on the sub from bypass (fully open) to 40 Hz as my Kef XQ 40 has its own deep bass and set the level on the sub near 80%.
I got very fast and deep bass from my sub.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9kHN_3Ou8_w&feature=youtu.be

For movies I simply return cross to bypass and set the level to the mark I did ealier.
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post #3 of 21 Old 09-09-2013, 07:43 PM - Thread Starter
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I see I have my own personal thread smile.gif

As for my question I understand that in my case it doesn't matter because the difference between hi-level and low-level connections is too big. For lfe it is near 35% and for hi-level it is near 85%. So I can't do the same level by changing lfe level in my reciever because the smaller digits I can set is -15dB. It is not enough.

I wonder if subs for about 1500$ with separate controls (cross and level) for hi and low level connections are on the market?
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post #4 of 21 Old 09-12-2013, 01:45 AM - Thread Starter
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As I understand no such subs frown.gif
And I realize no one sees the problem in it smile.gif
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post #5 of 21 Old 09-12-2013, 03:05 AM
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I do not mean any disrespect, but whatever your are trying to say is flying over my head. I just can't understand what you your problem is. If I could or somebody else did, your problem would have had some work done on it.

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post #6 of 21 Old 09-12-2013, 03:14 AM - Thread Starter
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I see my new avatar helps me to get the answer smile.gif

The problem is:
in HT i use LFE connection (from the reciever) and for the music I use high-level connection (from the amp).
The level and cross settings I need for both connections are different. But the sub has only one knob for every control.
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post #7 of 21 Old 09-12-2013, 03:18 AM
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So, what I can gather is that you are using both, Line Level and Speaker Level, connections on the subwoofer and you are having trouble setting the sub output for movies and music. Am I correct?

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post #8 of 21 Old 09-12-2013, 03:22 AM - Thread Starter
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I don't use them both on the same time. So the only problem is - it's not comfortable to change knobs positions every time I decide to listen music (from the amp) and then return to the previous position then I want to see movie (from reciever).
And I asked if I can do the same level for both connections by lowing the level in the reciever and in the same time rise it on the sub.
As I get no answer and I realized that I have to lower the level in my reciever for too much value (far from the scale of audissey allow me) I wondered if exists any sub with different knobs for every connections.
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post #9 of 21 Old 09-12-2013, 03:33 AM
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Quote:
As I get no answer and I realized that I have to lower the level in my reciever for too much value (far from the scale of audissey allow me) I wondered if exists any sub with different knobs for every connections.

There is no sub on planet earth that has separate gain knobs for High Level (Speaker Level) and Line Level (LFE) connections.
Your AVR does not have the Audyssey version that can calibrate the sub, so you have to pretty much set it up yourself. What speakers do you have?
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post #10 of 21 Old 09-12-2013, 03:38 AM - Thread Starter
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My reciever has Audissey MultiEQ. It callibrates sub channel.
I have KEF XQ40 as front speakers.
All this I wrote in my previous posts.
Thank you for the information!

All this started for me than I read on mksound site;
"To facilitate easy connection and ideal system integration, the SB-1250 has inputs and outputs for line-level phono and speaker level signals. Separate controls allow you to set bass level and upper roll-off frequency between 40 – 200 Hz, with a bypass for using the filter in a home theater receiver."

Now I see I got it wrong smile.gif
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post #11 of 21 Old 09-12-2013, 03:51 AM
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Quote:
My reciever has Audissey MultiEQ.

Yeah it does have sub eq. I thought your avr had 2EQ. Anyway, remove the High Level (Speaker Level) connection and only use the Line Level (LFE) input. Re-run the audyssey. It may set your speakers to large. Change them to small and set the crossover frequency at 80Hz for a start. Also, after running audyssey, it prompts you to select DynamicEQ and Dynamic/Dolby Volume. Choose to enable DynamicEQ and discard Dynamic/Dolby Volume (Leave it disabled).

Audyssey is not the definitive point. It's more like a starting point. Once you are done with it. We will do some tweaking from there on. What is the layout of your room? where is your main listening position? How far is it from rear wall? Room size? And most importantly, where is your sub located in the room?

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post #12 of 21 Old 09-12-2013, 03:57 AM
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Also do not forget to bypass Low Pass Filter on the subwoofer. Dial it to it's max value before running audyssey

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The best EQ is no EQ ...

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post #13 of 21 Old 09-12-2013, 04:00 AM - Thread Starter
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Now you don't get smile.gif
For music I don't use my reciever.
My amp has only high level connections and no lfe connection. So I can't "remove the High Level" wink.gif
In this case I'll not be able to use sub for music.

And I don't have any problem with callibration. My new sub does its job very good in ht and in stereo.
The problem is not in re-run callibration and so on.
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post #14 of 21 Old 09-12-2013, 04:06 AM
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Wait a second.....are you saying that you have an amplifier also in the sound chain? Are you using it to drive your mains i.e. it is connected with your AVR through pre-outs?

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post #15 of 21 Old 09-12-2013, 04:06 AM
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Cigarette break for me. wink.gif

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The best EQ is no EQ ...

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post #16 of 21 Old 09-12-2013, 04:08 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by braveheart123 View Post

Wait a second.....are you saying that you have an amplifier also in the sound chain? Are you using it to drive your mains i.e. it is connected with your AVR through pre-outs?

Bingo!

It was in my first post smile.gif

In details:
Onkyo front pre-outs - Pioneer A-50 direct amp in.
Fronts are allways connected to the amplifier.

For ht I use res and amp. Sub gets signal from lfe only - from reciever.
As for the amp -speakers "A", to which I have connected my sub, are switched off .
Amp has two separate connections for speakers and each can be switched on|off separatly - It can be seen on video I posted earlier - I press the button on my amp and only sub sounds, no fronts.

In stereo I switch on both connections (speakers "A" and "B") on my amp and have signal to fronts and sub at the same time. And no lfe signal because my reciever can be switched off.
My Yamaha NP-2000 connected only to amp so I do not need the reciever for music.
If my amp has lfe out (or something like pre-out) I'll not use high-level connection at all.
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post #17 of 21 Old 09-12-2013, 05:18 AM
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In stereo I switch on both connections (speakers "A" and "B") on my amp and have signal to fronts and sub at the same time. And no lfe signal because my reciever can be switched off.
My Yamaha NP-2000 connected only to amp so I do not need the reciever for music.
If my amp has lfe out (or something like pre-out) I'll not use high-level connection at all.

Your mains are 8 ohms. Pioneer A-50 is 90 wpc @ 4 Ohms, so I assume it is around 50wpc max @ 8ohms. Remove that High Level connection from the sub, it is of no use. Simply run your mains off Pioneer. Your speakers will sound as good as they are and so will your amp. If you feel you have less grunt in the lower octaves, that's because of the amp, most probably. Your speakers (KEF XQ40) are not terribly efficient with 90dB sensitivity. So, playing them loud would render your amp run out of steam.

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post #18 of 21 Old 09-12-2013, 05:23 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by braveheart123 View Post

Simply run your mains off Pioneer..

I've allready have this connection!
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post #19 of 21 Old 09-12-2013, 05:25 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by braveheart123 View Post

Remove that High Level connection from the sub, it is of no use..

Why? It is the only way to use my sub with my amp!

KEF XQ40 sounds great but atfer I started using sub I'd never return to 2.0. I like 2.1 for music. Because sub with its cross set to 40Hz adds 22-40 Hz range which my speakers can not produce with the level i need.
I can't get why you write about watts and so on. Sub has its own amp - no extra power is needed from Pioneer A-50 for the sub.

After such an interesting discussion may be somebody answer me:
-2dB in reciever and less level on the sub knob and -15dB in reciever with more level on the sub knob is the same?
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post #20 of 21 Old 09-12-2013, 07:42 AM
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Quote:
no extra power is needed from Pioneer A-50 for the sub

I was discussing your speakers not the sub.
Quote:
-2dB in reciever and less level on the sub knob and -15dB in reciever with more level on the sub knob is the same?

On paper there is no difference. In real world, differing opinions are there. Personally I won't feed my sub such a weak signal (-15dB) and crank the sub amp hard. I prefer to keep the sub trim level in AVR close to 00 and the gain knob on amp not past 1 o clock max and 10 o clock min.
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post #21 of 21 Old 09-12-2013, 07:50 AM - Thread Starter
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Thank you very much!
Finally I got the answer.
I feel the same way. I keep -2db after the callibration.
For stereo I do as I described in post#2.
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