SVS SB13Ultra Vs 2 x Rhythmik LV12R - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 37 Old 09-08-2013, 03:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Here we go again!

Room 18'x29' 9' and 10' ceilings, tv area around 18'x17' but all one open room. Mostly TV, occasional music and movies. Will be running with either Klipsch or Paradigm in wall speakers. From what I have read here it looks like the Rhythmik might be more accurate choice but not have the output the SB13Ultra has. My room is good sized and I am sure having 2 subs will benefit me, but trying to keep the aesthetics of the room as clean as possible. I also worry about getting 2 subs in the right location and correctly set up. My receiver is a Onkyo TV-NR818 which has Aud 32 but when I have tried to set up dual subs with it before it never seemed to sound right. The previous subs were Klipsch Rw 12d. Maybe I was doing something wrong but I ran the "full" room set up, tried to balance the subs out to get 75db in the middle of the room and went through 3 positions with all the tones through the speakers. It never seemed to do anything with the subs other than run the tones through them each time around. Is it supposed to do more than that? Thanks in advance!
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post #2 of 37 Old 09-08-2013, 03:10 PM
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In that size room. I would get the dual lv12r's.

setting up two subs can be tricky. Finding the two best spots then level matching them and then EQing them together is the basic idea but the devil can be in the details. Sounds like you have the level matching half right. You want the sum of both subs to be about 75db with the sub level trim as close to zero as you can. then run Audyssey.

Get each sub around 70-72. Then measure both together.

The sb13 is a great sub but two lv12's will do much better in that room.
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post #3 of 37 Old 09-08-2013, 03:11 PM
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IMO in a room that size you would be better off with a ported sub or subs, so out of those two the pair of Rythmiks would be the better choice for HT.

I have a SVS PC12+ and it's great. So I would favor an SVS sub, maybe a PC13 ultra.
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post #4 of 37 Old 09-08-2013, 03:16 PM
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The 818 has sub eq but not HT which has the ability to eq 2 subs. You can eq both subs correctly with your 818 but they must be equal distance from the mic position.

I would go dual subs and the Rythmik LV12's should be great performers. I think the SB13 may be a bit better for music, but I am only speculating there. I know Rythmik servo subs are known for being articulate and very musical, but the SB13 is a music Legend.

I would say if you are looking for a combination of HT/Music get the dual LV12's
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post #5 of 37 Old 09-08-2013, 03:32 PM
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The subs do not HAVE to be equal distances. It would help but its not critical.
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post #6 of 37 Old 09-08-2013, 03:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brian6751 View Post

The subs do not HAVE to be equal distances. It would help but its not critical.

I agree, its optimal but not required. smile.gif
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post #7 of 37 Old 09-08-2013, 03:40 PM
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I wouldn't expect the Rythmiks to be more accurate than a SB13. I also wouldn't expect two Rythmiks to get louder either, except at around their tuning point, 20 Hz. What the Rythmiks would offer is more consistent bass sound over a wider area of the room and a flatter frequency response- but only if they are placed correctly. If you want something that will tackle that room easily, check out a Hsu VTF3 dual drive. As for Audyssey, its sound like you are confused about its functionality. What were you expecting it to do?
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post #8 of 37 Old 09-08-2013, 03:56 PM
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How about dual SVS PC12-NSD. On sale for $699 each and you would get a multi-sub discount. That said, dual HSU VTF-3 or dual PSA XV15 are excellent options too.
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post #9 of 37 Old 09-08-2013, 04:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post

I wouldn't expect the Rythmiks to be more accurate than a SB13. I also wouldn't expect two Rythmiks to get louder either, except at around their tuning point, 20 Hz. What the Rythmiks would offer is more consistent bass sound over a wider area of the room and a flatter frequency response- but only if they are placed correctly. If you want something that will tackle that room easily, check out a Hsu VTF3 dual drive. As for Audyssey, its sound like you are confused about its functionality. What were you expecting it to do?
I have looked at the HSU's, only thing I don't like is the significantly bigger cabinets. I am pretty new to this game so please explain why this sub is better than the Rhythmiks.

As far as Audyssey, like I said, I'm pretty new to all this. The way I understand it, you run Audyssey and it sets everything up the way it should for the room. Am I wrong on this.
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post #10 of 37 Old 09-08-2013, 04:13 PM
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The VTF3s can get louder and go deeper. They are simply more powerful, and a pair will set you back the same price as the SB13.

For Audyssey, you understand it correctly. It corrects the speaker's frequency response so that it works with the room better. For some rooms and setups, that means doing a lot, but in others, it barely has to change anything. If you didn't perceive a big difference, that might be because things were already pretty good in your room.
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post #11 of 37 Old 09-08-2013, 04:15 PM
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Using audyssey has it own thread. There is a lot to it in order to get the most out of it. Check it out for more info

http://www.avsforum.com/t/795421/official-audyssey-thread-faq-in-post-1

Audyssey is going to try to flatten the response up to the -3db point of the subs so since the sb13 will not get jack for room gain the lv12's will most certainly outperform it after calibration. Having more output above 30hz doesn't do you any good when you want to be flat to 20. Unless you prefer a reverse house curve.....

Also, don't be so sure about the lv12's not being as articulate. Brian's servo tech is very impressive.
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post #12 of 37 Old 09-08-2013, 04:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for everyone's feedback. I am going to bookmark this the Audyssey thread so when we are finally in our new house and everything is set up I know how to use it correctly.

The subwoofer choice is a stressful one as I know how important they are to the sound of the overall system. If the HSU dual sub set up is the way to go then that is what I will do.

I had Jeff Meyer calibrate my system in my old house and claimed that while Audyssey can help get your system closer to where it needs to be that his manual set up is much more accurate. He has measurements on his website of after Audyssey and after his calibration. There is also a lot of talk about Audyssey not working correctly on the 818 and there was even a software patch to resolve but it had to be a manual download and would not automatically upload with the other software uploads. Seems like the more I read on here the more I am confused! I don't have the time to research and learn about all this stuff, I just want a nice area to watch TV/games/movies and have to sound good and accurate.
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post #13 of 37 Old 09-08-2013, 04:50 PM
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Ill second the dual HSU vtf3's. they will have tons of output and sound great. They also have multiple tuning options that you can play with. They are big though so make sure your ok with the size.
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post #14 of 37 Old 09-08-2013, 05:15 PM
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You will have to do some manual calibration with dual subs. Your receiver does not carry the version of audyssey that can calibrate more than one sub. It won't be that difficult though, unless you insist on an absolutely flat response at all seats.
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post #15 of 37 Old 09-08-2013, 05:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lees23 View Post

Thanks for everyone's feedback. I am going to bookmark this the Audyssey thread so when we are finally in our new house and everything is set up I know how to use it correctly.

The subwoofer choice is a stressful one as I know how important they are to the sound of the overall system. If the HSU dual sub set up is the way to go then that is what I will do.

I had Jeff Meyer calibrate my system in my old house and claimed that while Audyssey can help get your system closer to where it needs to be that his manual set up is much more accurate. He has measurements on his website of after Audyssey and after his calibration. There is also a lot of talk about Audyssey not working correctly on the 818 and there was even a software patch to resolve but it had to be a manual download and would not automatically upload with the other software uploads. Seems like the more I read on here the more I am confused! I don't have the time to research and learn about all this stuff, I just want a nice area to watch TV/games/movies and have to sound good and accurate.
Big is not good for me.. WAF(the reason I am using in walls). Anything else smaller that will be able to handle that room? Are the Rhythmik's the next best option(smaller cabinet).
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post #16 of 37 Old 09-08-2013, 05:57 PM
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The Rythmiks would be smaller. They are going to be about your smallest option as far as a pair of capable subs for that room. Wife's get used to big subs....... I think.....
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post #17 of 37 Old 09-08-2013, 06:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by brian6751 View Post

The Rythmiks would be smaller. They are going to be about your smallest option as far as a pair of capable subs for that room. Wife's get used to big subs....... I think.....

Cheapest too. I looked at the cabinet dimensions of the HSU's and dint think they were terrible until I saw one in a youtube video. JESUS!
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post #18 of 37 Old 09-08-2013, 06:24 PM - Thread Starter
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How about sealed subs for the smaller cabinet. What are the thoughts on the 2x SB12NSD or Rhythmik F12. The SVS route is much cheaper... is one SB13 ultra better than 2x SB12NSD's? Please also keep in mind that this is not going to be a theater... just a TV room. The sound doesn't need to be perfect, just pretty damn good. I have a feeling that any of these combinations are going to have plenty of output for my needs.
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post #19 of 37 Old 09-08-2013, 06:40 PM
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Check out the dual svs pb1000 package


http://www.svsound.com/dual-subwoofers/dual-pb-1000#.Ui0YTGS9Kc0

I'm using one now. And I'll be adding another one once we are in our new house. Huge area but same usage as your looking at.

Very small. Looks great with a black oak vinyl wrap that looks just as good as the real deal IMO. Sounds great. Great output as well.

If you don't like them, return shipping is free.
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post #20 of 37 Old 09-08-2013, 06:42 PM
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Oh yeah. They are also cheaper than your other options and have a 5 year bumper to bumper warranty. What's not to love?
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post #21 of 37 Old 09-08-2013, 07:14 PM
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you are not going to get much room gain going sealed with that size of room. Your best bet is a pair of Rythmik LV12's, SVS PB1000's, PSA XV15's, or HSU VTF3's.

LV12- 16" w x 22" h x 20.5" d 1070.00 shipped

XV15- 17"w x 23" h x 22" d 1518.10 shipped

PB1000- 15"w x 19.7" h x 20" d 998.00 shipped

HSU VTF3- 17"w x 21.25" h x 25" d 1517.00 shipped

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I'm sure this will change but due to my restrictions on size I think I have decided on either the SVS SB 13 Ultra or the Rhythmik F/E15HP. Any thoughts on the better sub here. It will be "corner loaded", I know I will have peaks and nulls but I think I will be okay with that. I can always add another down the road if needed.

Once again, thanks all!
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post #23 of 37 Old 09-08-2013, 07:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lees23 View Post

I'm sure this will change but due to my restrictions on size I think I have decided on either the SVS SB 13 Ultra or the Rhythmik F/E15HP. Any thoughts on the better sub here. It will be "corner loaded", I know I will have peaks and nulls but I think I will be okay with that. I can always add another down the road if needed.

Once again, thanks all!

I wouldnt do it...go ported as everybody in this thread has mentioned. I wouldnt be ok with peaks and nulls...a jacked up frequency response will make the best sub sound terrible lol.
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post #24 of 37 Old 09-08-2013, 07:32 PM
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The pb1000 is barely bigger than the sb13 and duals are only $998 if you have to pay tax. Not all states do

I would get dual pb1000's
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post #25 of 37 Old 09-08-2013, 07:44 PM
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The pb1000 is barely bigger than the sb13 and duals are only $998 if you have to pay tax. Not all states do

I would get dual pb1000's

Agreed! You could get 3 PB1000's for the price of 1 SB13. I would go for the Triple play smile.gif

A smooth response is the ticket to a good sounding sub system imo.
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post #26 of 37 Old 09-08-2013, 08:35 PM
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Heck it might be about the same size if not a tiny bit smaller when you figure in the grill on the sb13.
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post #27 of 37 Old 09-08-2013, 08:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks all.
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post #28 of 37 Old 09-08-2013, 08:54 PM
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Thanks all.

Just like that, you leave us hanging? I thought we were all in this together! tongue.gif

Let us know what you end up with and how you like it
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post #29 of 37 Old 09-08-2013, 10:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Just like that, you leave us hanging? I thought we were all in this together! tongue.gif

Let us know what you end up with and how you like it
I just read some of the reviews on the website and think I am sold on the PB1000! I will, more than likely, start with 2. I just signed the contract on building our house so I have 8 months until I will be able to follow up. While I have you guys here and recommendations on in wall speakers. I have liked what I have read about the Klipsch 5800's and some of the lower grade Paradigm's(lower grade because I can't afford their top tier stuff). I would like to keep it around $400/speakers bad will be doing a 5.1(2) system running with a Onkyo 818 and a Panny 65VT50(stuff I had in my old house).
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post #30 of 37 Old 09-08-2013, 10:25 PM
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I don't know a lot about inwall speakers but if I were going to use them I would shop at Aperion audio. I've had many of their products and have always been happy with them. They also have great CS and warranties.

http://www.aperionaudio.com/speakers/in-wall-and-in-ceiling-home-theater-speakers
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