One better sub or two subs - Page 22 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #631 of 757 Old 11-12-2013, 08:05 AM
AVS Special Member
 
rcohen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,228
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 264 Post(s)
Liked: 88
I've never heard great bass from headphones, and I've heard plenty of nice headphones and nice headphone amps. I've heard headphone bass that is "great for headphones."

Great bass is something you can only do with subs and attention to detail, but it's worth it. IMO, it makes a bigger difference than upgrading anything else.

I suspect you want "clean" sound, if you want something closer to the headphone experience. Clean, lean, balanced, not loud, thick, or boomy. You can definitely achieve that with good subs.
rcohen is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #632 of 757 Old 11-14-2013, 08:50 PM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
SherazNJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 643
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 18
I put all advices together. First I calibrated subs with speakers at 80hz. I took reading and saw that lower frequency is more than 3 db. Then I changed subs from facing MLP to port facing the wall. That made a very good difference. All graphs include loud speakers as well. Here is the graph with 5 db verticle and with normal.




The highest point at 80hz is at 95 and lowest at 30db is at 91. The rest of the graph is falling in b/w these two points. I think its a very flat graph. So I thought I was giving Audyssey an easy run. Here is the graph after Audyssey 8 point calibration (dynamic is on). This includes both (original and Audyssey to see the difference). A disappointing result from Audyssey.


Considering it had to work with a very flat graph, I was hoping to give much better result. I don't know what the logic is behind Audyssey calibration but it seems like it took the middle point and tilted each side. What a pity. Also, this brought a big difference in between crossover point and beyond. (80-100hz)

Then I tried DSP but including it without any equalization brings graph down from crossover point even further. I think this unit is not working well since it changes graph without even any equalization or maybe there is some settings I need to change???


Regardless I applied equalization to see how that'd work. Idea was to get rid of small dip that audyssey introduced at 50hz. It did and got a diff of 7db from 30-80.



I tested the system and no issue with bottoming. But it didn't sound so amazing that I could neglect 5db of difference in between crossover point to 100hz.

This one is the final graph that I took with original Audyssey (No DSP) and changing sub trim from -9 to -6. System sounds great. Very good.



So here we go. This is so far the best of all and I only needed to change the gain from -9 to -6 to get the desired bass. It also reduced the diff from cross-over to 100 hz to only 2 db.
One exercise I can do is to use DSP with sub trim at -4 (need to increase more since dsp reduces at crossover) to get rid of diff at 50 hz and see if it makes a big difference. Another idea is to exclude subs from Audyssey calibration and then include them from dsp after equalizing them.
But, so far system sounds great :-)
SherazNJ is offline  
post #633 of 757 Old 11-14-2013, 11:56 PM
AVS Special Member
 
braveheart123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Lone Wolf McQuade from Islamabad Pakistan
Posts: 1,832
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked: 116
Quote:
Then I tried DSP but including it without any equalization brings graph down from crossover point even further. I think this unit is not working well since it changes graph without even any equalization or maybe there is some settings I need to change???

Whenever you add any eq device; add 1 ms to the sub distance in AVR. That is to account for the delay caused by DSP resulting in slight phase cancellation. Just add 1 ft extra to the sub distance and you will get rid of that dip in the crossover region.

History is written by those who have hanged heroes ...

The best EQ is no EQ ...

Alpine SWR-1223D Slot Ported HT Sub

Dual Dayton RSS390HO-4 Reference 15 Build For HT

Main System: Klipsch RF-82 II, Klipsch RC-62 II, RS-52 II, Onkyo 5010, Rythmik FV15HP, PSB S300
braveheart123 is offline  
post #634 of 757 Old 11-15-2013, 12:16 AM
AVS Special Member
 
braveheart123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Lone Wolf McQuade from Islamabad Pakistan
Posts: 1,832
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked: 116
Quote:
Another idea is to exclude subs from Audyssey calibration and then include them from dsp after equalizing them.

I don't think that's possible with Marantz receivers.

History is written by those who have hanged heroes ...

The best EQ is no EQ ...

Alpine SWR-1223D Slot Ported HT Sub

Dual Dayton RSS390HO-4 Reference 15 Build For HT

Main System: Klipsch RF-82 II, Klipsch RC-62 II, RS-52 II, Onkyo 5010, Rythmik FV15HP, PSB S300
braveheart123 is offline  
post #635 of 757 Old 11-15-2013, 09:01 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Alan P's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Rapid City, South Dakota
Posts: 2,793
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 747 Post(s)
Liked: 400
Quote:
Originally Posted by braveheart123 View Post

Whenever you add any eq device; add 1 ms to the sub distance in AVR. That is to account for the delay caused by DSP resulting in slight phase cancellation. Just add 1 ft extra to the sub distance and you will get rid of that dip in the crossover region.

This is exacty what I found last night (by trial and error) with my first night playing with the Mini DSP. smile.gif
Alan P is online now  
post #636 of 757 Old 11-15-2013, 09:31 AM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
SherazNJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 643
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by braveheart123 View Post

Whenever you add any eq device; add 1 ms to the sub distance in AVR. That is to account for the delay caused by DSP resulting in slight phase cancellation. Just add 1 ft extra to the sub distance and you will get rid of that dip in the crossover region.

Oh man. Ok I"ll try it now. Also one very interesting finding is that making subs port face the wall made a very big difference in the way it sounds. I can't logically explain since the graph doesn't show but the bass is not strong and tide instead of just loud. Remember, I was constantly asking if the bass hits you and gets you scared or move your rib cage? Well, making the port facing the wall made that change. I have no idea how but man it sounds awesome :-).
SherazNJ is offline  
post #637 of 757 Old 11-15-2013, 11:34 AM
AVS Special Member
 
braveheart123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Lone Wolf McQuade from Islamabad Pakistan
Posts: 1,832
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked: 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by SherazNJ View Post

Oh man. Ok I"ll try it now. Also one very interesting finding is that making subs port face the wall made a very big difference in the way it sounds. I can't logically explain since the graph doesn't show but the bass is not strong and tide instead of just loud. Remember, I was constantly asking if the bass hits you and gets you scared or move your rib cage? Well, making the port facing the wall made that change. I have no idea how but man it sounds awesome :-).

Yeah that's coz of the boundary gain. If you want the big shake and that pressurization feeling, get a pair of 1 Female RCA to 2 Male RCA y-cables and feed both Left and Right inputs on your subs, and dial the crossover/LPF knob on both subs to around 50Hz mark. Leave the crossover in avr at 80Hz Try it and you would be surprised.

History is written by those who have hanged heroes ...

The best EQ is no EQ ...

Alpine SWR-1223D Slot Ported HT Sub

Dual Dayton RSS390HO-4 Reference 15 Build For HT

Main System: Klipsch RF-82 II, Klipsch RC-62 II, RS-52 II, Onkyo 5010, Rythmik FV15HP, PSB S300
braveheart123 is offline  
post #638 of 757 Old 11-15-2013, 12:10 PM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
SherazNJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 643
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by braveheart123 View Post

Yeah that's coz of the boundary gain. If you want the big shake and that pressurization feeling, get a pair of 1 Female RCA to 2 Male RCA y-cables and feed both Left and Right inputs on your subs, and dial the crossover/LPF knob on both subs to around 50Hz mark. Leave the crossover in avr at 80Hz Try it and you would be surprised.

I tried with DSP. Chaning distance didn't make graph exactly the way without it but I'm sure its because of a little delay. But I was able to get rid of any dips with just changing distance. I equalized it with 2 -ve filters and tested it. No bottoming issues what so ever. I also had to increase subtrim to -2 form -6 to get 80 higer. No bottoming issue but I ddin't enjoy the sound as much as I did without dsp. Without dsp, bass felt tidier. So, I took it out of the mix and moved sub trim back to -4.

At this setting, I can feel the waves in scenes. Its pretty awesome. And just when I thought I can't this system any better, Braveheart comes with one of his goodies again. Man, you put a smile on my face. How much knowledge you have is just remarkable. Now, I'm going to Radio shack to buy a pair of Female RCA to 2 Male RCA y-cable :-). Can't wait to see what difference it will make :-)

Here is the image that shows difference of DSP with subtrim at -2 with 2 filters VS no dsp and subtrim at -4.
SherazNJ is offline  
post #639 of 757 Old 11-15-2013, 12:18 PM
AVS Special Member
 
braveheart123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Lone Wolf McQuade from Islamabad Pakistan
Posts: 1,832
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked: 116
Quote:
Now, I'm going to Radio shack to buy a pair of Female RCA to 2 Male RCA y-cable :-). Can't wait to see what difference it will make :-)

Um using my PSB sub this way. Feeding both line level inputs increases the gain by 6dB keeping every other thing constant. But that extra 6dB per sub is huge and will make your subs sound boomy. Brining LPF down to around 50Hz on subs will interact with the crossover set in AVR. This will have a cascading effect bringing the extra energy between 50Hz and 80Hz down while lifting the low end. It sounds fantastic. If you still think bass is boomy; bring the LPF on both subs down to 40Hz and check.

History is written by those who have hanged heroes ...

The best EQ is no EQ ...

Alpine SWR-1223D Slot Ported HT Sub

Dual Dayton RSS390HO-4 Reference 15 Build For HT

Main System: Klipsch RF-82 II, Klipsch RC-62 II, RS-52 II, Onkyo 5010, Rythmik FV15HP, PSB S300
braveheart123 is offline  
post #640 of 757 Old 11-15-2013, 12:19 PM
AVS Special Member
 
primetimeguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: St. Paul, MN
Posts: 3,857
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 154 Post(s)
Liked: 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by braveheart123 View Post


Yeah that's coz of the boundary gain. If you want the big shake and that pressurization feeling, get a pair of 1 Female RCA to 2 Male RCA y-cables and feed both Left and Right inputs on your subs, and dial the crossover/LPF knob on both subs to around 50Hz mark. Leave the crossover in avr at 80Hz Try it and you would be surprised.

Not sure I understand this recommendation.  Using the y-cable will just net a higher signal at the sub, which you would just decrease the gain to get back to equivalent level.  You could get the same by turning up the volume 3db.  Setting the crossovers in this manner means you are throwing out, or at least minimizing subwoofer content in the 80-50hz range.  So you reduced the amount of content going to the sub, which is going to make the 40-50hz standout more.  I personally feel you get more bass chest slam in the 80-100hz range and so your recommendation goes exactly against what I would recommended.

 

So for the OP, just have to try it, measure it and listen to it.  

primetimeguy is online now  
post #641 of 757 Old 11-15-2013, 12:35 PM
AVS Special Member
 
braveheart123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Lone Wolf McQuade from Islamabad Pakistan
Posts: 1,832
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked: 116
See post 639

History is written by those who have hanged heroes ...

The best EQ is no EQ ...

Alpine SWR-1223D Slot Ported HT Sub

Dual Dayton RSS390HO-4 Reference 15 Build For HT

Main System: Klipsch RF-82 II, Klipsch RC-62 II, RS-52 II, Onkyo 5010, Rythmik FV15HP, PSB S300
braveheart123 is offline  
post #642 of 757 Old 11-15-2013, 12:35 PM
AVS Special Member
 
jproy13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: East of West, Canada
Posts: 1,196
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 23
I have nothing new to to bring to this thread that wasn't discussed or suggested, just to say that this is one of the best thread I've seen in quite a while on AVS. Tons of great info.

Carry on now...smile.gif
jproy13 is offline  
post #643 of 757 Old 11-15-2013, 01:13 PM
AVS Special Member
 
primetimeguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: St. Paul, MN
Posts: 3,857
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 154 Post(s)
Liked: 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by braveheart123 View Post

See post 639

Right, you initially get an overall level boost which you say is boomy and you don't like.  Then you adjust the crossover to lose some of the content going to the sub.  Seems like you created a big dip in the response which you prefer.  Or it gave you a house curve possibly.  Do you have a plot showing the end result, I'm curious.

 

Couldn't you get the same result setting receiver crossover to 50hz and boosting the sub level?

primetimeguy is online now  
post #644 of 757 Old 11-15-2013, 01:31 PM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
SherazNJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 643
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by primetimeguy View Post

Right, you initially get an overall level boost which you say is boomy and you don't like.  Then you adjust the crossover to lose some of the content going to the sub.  Seems like you created a big dip in the response which you prefer.  Or it gave you a house curve possibly.  Do you have a plot showing the end result, I'm curious.

Couldn't you get the same result setting receiver crossover to 50hz and boosting the sub level?

Here is the differece. Three graphs.
1 - Blue: Default to comapre with
2 - Red: Splitter included without any change in subs cross-over
3 - Black: Cross-over at 50.

That didn't look so good. But, if you try with one sub only, its a different story then. Here is the graph with one sub only with crossover to 150(max) using Y-Splitter.


What a perfect graph. Too bad that its only with one sub.
SherazNJ is offline  
post #645 of 757 Old 11-15-2013, 01:37 PM
AVS Special Member
 
primetimeguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: St. Paul, MN
Posts: 3,857
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 154 Post(s)
Liked: 148

^^^^

 

The black graph is exactly what I would expect with braveheart123's method and that's why I was looking for his plot to see if it was something other than that.

 

As for your plot of one sub, that doesn't make any sense at all, or does that not include the crossover change?

primetimeguy is online now  
post #646 of 757 Old 11-15-2013, 01:39 PM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
SherazNJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 643
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by primetimeguy View Post

^^^^

The black graph is exactly what I would expect with braveheart123's method and that's why I was looking for his plot to see if it was something other than that.

As for your plot of one sub, that doesn't make any sense at all, or does that not include the crossover change?

That dones't inlcude cross over. I pointed that out in the post. Cross over is at max for sub one.
SherazNJ is offline  
post #647 of 757 Old 11-15-2013, 01:41 PM
AVS Special Member
 
braveheart123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Lone Wolf McQuade from Islamabad Pakistan
Posts: 1,832
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked: 116
I never measured it; but I will when I receive my FV15HP.
Quote:
Seems like you created a big dip in the response which you prefer.

It doesn't create a dip in 50Hz-80Hz region. When both line level inputs are used; you get 6dB extra output keeping every other thing constant. So, if you calibrate your system flat; you end up with 6dB extra gain per sub from crossover point and below (In the subwoofer region), which should actually create a 6dB LP shelf all the way down to where the sub actually rolls off.

By utilizing LPF on avr at 80Hz and dialing LPF on the sub at around 50Hz will have a cascading effect in the region between 50Hz and 80Hz. The response should be sloping from 50Hz and above and should roughly be at the same level at 80Hz as speakers are. From 80Hz up; speakers pick up anyway.

History is written by those who have hanged heroes ...

The best EQ is no EQ ...

Alpine SWR-1223D Slot Ported HT Sub

Dual Dayton RSS390HO-4 Reference 15 Build For HT

Main System: Klipsch RF-82 II, Klipsch RC-62 II, RS-52 II, Onkyo 5010, Rythmik FV15HP, PSB S300
braveheart123 is offline  
post #648 of 757 Old 11-15-2013, 01:44 PM
AVS Special Member
 
primetimeguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: St. Paul, MN
Posts: 3,857
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 154 Post(s)
Liked: 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by SherazNJ View Post


That dones't inlcude cross over. I pointed that out in the post. Cross over is at max for sub one.

Right, missed that.  So I wouldn't expect much difference in level, doubled input to one sub vs using two subs.  But it does say you can get very good response with one sub, at least at that one position.  So you gain headroom and better response at other locations with another sub.

primetimeguy is online now  
post #649 of 757 Old 11-15-2013, 01:48 PM
AVS Special Member
 
primetimeguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: St. Paul, MN
Posts: 3,857
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 154 Post(s)
Liked: 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by braveheart123 View Post

I never measured it; but I will when I receive my FV15HP.
It doesn't create a dip in 50Hz-80Hz region. When both line level inputs are used; you get 6dB extra output keeping every other thing constant. So, if you calibrate your system flat; you end up with 6dB extra gain per sub from crossover point and below (In the subwoofer region), which should actually create a 6dB LP shelf all the way down to where the sub actually rolls off.

By utilizing LPF on avr at 80Hz and dialing LPF on the sub at around 50Hz will have a cascading effect in the region between 50Hz and 80Hz. The response should be sloping from 50Hz and above and should roughly be at the same level at 80Hz as speakers are. From 80Hz up; speakers pick up anyway.

I guess we'll have to see what your graphs show but the data SherazNJ shows fits my theory.  You just created a hole from 50-80hz in the sub which is the range most people want there sub playing.

primetimeguy is online now  
post #650 of 757 Old 11-15-2013, 01:50 PM
AVS Special Member
 
braveheart123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Lone Wolf McQuade from Islamabad Pakistan
Posts: 1,832
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked: 116
Sheraz, you have to engage the LPF at 50Hz on both the subs and you need to take FR with both subs+speakers. Do not bypass LPF on subs by dialling them to max position.

History is written by those who have hanged heroes ...

The best EQ is no EQ ...

Alpine SWR-1223D Slot Ported HT Sub

Dual Dayton RSS390HO-4 Reference 15 Build For HT

Main System: Klipsch RF-82 II, Klipsch RC-62 II, RS-52 II, Onkyo 5010, Rythmik FV15HP, PSB S300
braveheart123 is offline  
post #651 of 757 Old 11-15-2013, 01:56 PM
AVS Special Member
 
primetimeguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: St. Paul, MN
Posts: 3,857
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 154 Post(s)
Liked: 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by braveheart123 View Post

Sheraz, you have to engage the LPF at 50Hz on both the subs and you need to take FR with both subs+speakers. Do not bypass LPF on subs by dialling them to max position.

Good catch if his measurements are sub only.

primetimeguy is online now  
post #652 of 757 Old 11-15-2013, 01:59 PM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
SherazNJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 643
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by braveheart123 View Post

Sheraz, you have to engage the LPF at 50Hz on both the subs and you need to take FR with both subs+speakers. Do not bypass LPF on subs by dialling them to max position.

To clarify, I'll write down exactly what I did.
1 - To connected Y-Splitter and took reading
2 - I changed cross-over to 50 on both subs and took reading.
3 - I changed cross-over to 80 on both subs and took reading.

All readings inlcude subs+speakers and Audyssey engaged.
SherazNJ is offline  
post #653 of 757 Old 11-15-2013, 02:00 PM
AVS Special Member
 
braveheart123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Lone Wolf McQuade from Islamabad Pakistan
Posts: 1,832
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked: 116
You need 2 y-splitters; one for each sub. Keep crossover at 80Hz in the avr, feed L/R inputs on both subs, set LPF at 50Hz on both subs, don not change any other setting, and take the FR of both subs+speakers.

History is written by those who have hanged heroes ...

The best EQ is no EQ ...

Alpine SWR-1223D Slot Ported HT Sub

Dual Dayton RSS390HO-4 Reference 15 Build For HT

Main System: Klipsch RF-82 II, Klipsch RC-62 II, RS-52 II, Onkyo 5010, Rythmik FV15HP, PSB S300
braveheart123 is offline  
post #654 of 757 Old 11-15-2013, 02:19 PM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
SherazNJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 643
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by braveheart123 View Post

You need 2 y-splitters; one for each sub. Keep crossover at 80Hz in the avr, feed L/R inputs on both subs, set LPF at 50Hz on both subs, don not change any other setting, and take the FR of both subs+speakers.

I do have Y-Splitter on EACH subs. Crossover is at 80 hz in avr. Y-Spliter is in L/R inputs on both subs. LPF was set to 50Hz on both subs. Nothing else was changed. All the time speakers were included.
This is exactly what I did in the first place.
SherazNJ is offline  
post #655 of 757 Old 11-15-2013, 02:27 PM
AVS Special Member
 
primetimeguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: St. Paul, MN
Posts: 3,857
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 154 Post(s)
Liked: 148
Method looks good and results as expected is how I look at it
primetimeguy is online now  
post #656 of 757 Old 11-15-2013, 02:29 PM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
SherazNJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 643
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 18
Including Y-Splitter did exactly what i was looking for. I gave me that 3db raise at lower frequency that my room couldn't provide. I then placed miniDSP in the chain, applied only one filter to bring 60-80 area down and ended up with this (Blue default Vs Red with dsp). I reduced the limit to show the difference. Main difference is from 66Hz to all the way down. See how the graph is lifted about 1 1/2 db and guys trust me, it makes a difference when there is this 1 1/22 db lift. Before when I included dsp, I didn't like the sound as much but with splitters included and having this lift in lower frequency changed the game completely.



Tested with dsp. Subs are not bottoming. Amazing sound. Absolutely earth shaking. I didn't that I'd say that but I can't even handle any more bass that this :-). It starts making my heart beat faster. I can hear all the details. I can very easily feel the tactile motion on my chair and my feet :-). It's just simply insane. I was watching everything at -10db volume in avr but got so scared that coudln't watch the pod scene from WOW at -10. I reduced volume to -13 and still it scared the sh** out of me.

Finally I ended up with a hard-knee curve and it's again AMAZING.
SherazNJ is offline  
post #657 of 757 Old 11-15-2013, 02:30 PM
AVS Special Member
 
braveheart123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Lone Wolf McQuade from Islamabad Pakistan
Posts: 1,832
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked: 116
That's strange then. Feeding both L/R inputs on each sub in your room should lift the FR by 6-7dB collectively from 80Hz all the way down to whatever point your subs roll off without changing any other configuration.
Then engaging LPF on both of them at 50Hz should bring the already elevated 50-80hz region down by roughly the same amount bringing the response in that region at par with speakers. Seems like one of your subs goes out of phase. You tried this with one sub and it worked. When you engaged both; the response dipped badly.

History is written by those who have hanged heroes ...

The best EQ is no EQ ...

Alpine SWR-1223D Slot Ported HT Sub

Dual Dayton RSS390HO-4 Reference 15 Build For HT

Main System: Klipsch RF-82 II, Klipsch RC-62 II, RS-52 II, Onkyo 5010, Rythmik FV15HP, PSB S300
braveheart123 is offline  
post #658 of 757 Old 11-15-2013, 02:33 PM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
SherazNJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 643
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 18
I wanted to make one very important point. I figured out the main issue with subs bottoming before. It had nothing to do with subs limit. Sub were placed hugging the wall and RCA cable was going with the wall as well toasted in between the sub and wall. In loud bass scenes, sub would shake things up that made wire shake a bit and caused that distortion. I figured it out by paying attention that it was happening to only one sub. Also when I changed subs direction from facing MLP to having their port facing the wall, it went away completely. Distortion was not brought in because of miniDSP or subs limit. it was the wire. I think someone here also mentioned about checking wire.
SherazNJ is offline  
post #659 of 757 Old 11-15-2013, 02:35 PM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
SherazNJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 643
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by braveheart123 View Post

That's strange then. Feeding both L/R inputs on each sub in your room should lift the FR by 6-7dB collectively from 80Hz all the way down to whatever point your subs roll off without changing any other configuration.
Then engaging LPF on both of them at 50Hz should bring the already elevated 50-80hz region down by roughly the same amount bringing the response in that region at par with speakers. Seems like one of your subs goes out of phase. You tried this with one sub and it worked. When you engaged both; the response dipped badly.

But including splitters did what my room couldn't. I gave me that extra elivation that I was looking for. Thanks so much for bringing splitters in the mix.
SherazNJ is offline  
post #660 of 757 Old 11-15-2013, 02:46 PM
AVS Special Member
 
braveheart123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Lone Wolf McQuade from Islamabad Pakistan
Posts: 1,832
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked: 116
But, I'm still wondering as to why crossover cascading worked with one sub and not with two. I will check it on my system.
Till then, enjoy your ribcage flex smile.gif Um glad it finally shook you the way you wanted.

History is written by those who have hanged heroes ...

The best EQ is no EQ ...

Alpine SWR-1223D Slot Ported HT Sub

Dual Dayton RSS390HO-4 Reference 15 Build For HT

Main System: Klipsch RF-82 II, Klipsch RC-62 II, RS-52 II, Onkyo 5010, Rythmik FV15HP, PSB S300
braveheart123 is offline  
Reply Subwoofers, Bass, and Transducers

Tags
Rythmik Audio , Svs Pb12 Nsd Black Vinyl 12 Inch Powered Subwoofer

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off