One better sub or two subs - Page 25 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #721 of 757 Old 12-27-2013, 10:25 AM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
SherazNJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 643
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by flickhtguru View Post

Looks awesome!!!. The one thing that I would do that will net you a big improvement in sound is BUY a 3rd identical matching tower for your center speaker. Then you will have the setup most ppl crave when they decide to go with and AT screen 3 identical vertical fronts.

I don't get it. Are you suggesting to replace central speaker with a tower? Also you said BIG improvement. Really???? Will it be a big improvement?

After calibration, my side speakers came to -1 and -1.5 db and central to -6db. Don't know why there is such big difference. I did make sure that side speakers are pointed to MLP and all tweeters are at same levels.

Could it be because my side speakers are a little too much on side? If you look at the pics, you'll see that side speakers are all the way on side. I also took picture to show their angle as compared to wall to give an idea how they are towed in.

Could it also be because when I took 8 point calibration, for 4,5,6 position readings, I put mic about 4 feet ahead from MLP? This is how I calibrated (I followed Audyssey instructions)
1- Center,
2- Left of Center (2 feet)
3 - Right of Center (2 feet)
4- Left to Center 3 feet ahead,
5- In front of Center 3 feet ahead,
6- Right to Center 3 feet ahead,
7- 1 feet left from center 1 feet behind,
8- 1 feet right from center 1 feet behind
SherazNJ is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #722 of 757 Old 12-27-2013, 10:45 AM
AVS Special Member
 
flickhtguru's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Lebanon, PA
Posts: 2,458
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 105
Yes I am suggesting replacing the "dedicated center" speaker with a tower. A dedicated center speaker only exists for a couple reasons 1). most people can't place a tower or bookshelf size speaker vertically oriented in their rooms because of the TV stand or entertainment center and so on. 2). because most manufactures know that the general public doesn't know better and thinks that you need a "center" designed speaker. The horizontal center is a huge compromise, the dispertion pattern of a speaker is widest in the speakers narrowest demension. So a horizontal center's sound dispertion is from floor to ceiling NOT so much Left to Right which unless you always listen by yourself horizontal dispertion is way more important than vertical. Also the MTM designed horizontal center is the worst cuz of the lobing effect that happens off axis in the all important freq range where the Mid/woofers cross over to the tweeter. Actually a bookshelf speaker laid on its side sounds better than a MTM horizontal center.

The absolute best ideal situaion would be to have in a 7.2 system: 7 identical vertically oriented speakers and 2 identical subs. The most important thing would be to have the front 3 speakers all be identical and all vertically oriented with all the tweeters at the same height which should be seated ear level. I don't have a setup like I'm explaining but I promise you if I had an AT screen I would. With 3 identical vertically oriented speakers across the front the sound will be the same as it pans from one speaker to the next which is what you want.

Shawn
flickhtguru is offline  
post #723 of 757 Old 12-27-2013, 10:48 AM
AVS Special Member
 
flickhtguru's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Lebanon, PA
Posts: 2,458
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by SherazNJ View Post

I don't get it. Are you suggesting to replace central speaker with a tower? Also you said BIG improvement. Really???? Will it be a big improvement?

After calibration, my side speakers came to -1 and -1.5 db and central to -6db. Don't know why there is such big difference. I did make sure that side speakers are pointed to MLP and all tweeters are at same levels.

Could it be because my side speakers are a little too much on side? If you look at the pics, you'll see that side speakers are all the way on side. I also took picture to show their angle as compared to wall to give an idea how they are towed in.

Could it also be because when I took 8 point calibration, for 4,5,6 position readings, I put mic about 4 feet ahead from MLP? This is how I calibrated (I followed Audyssey instructions)
1- Center,
2- Left of Center (2 feet)
3 - Right of Center (2 feet)
4- Left to Center 3 feet ahead,
5- In front of Center 3 feet ahead,
6- Right to Center 3 feet ahead,
7- 1 feet left from center 1 feet behind,
8- 1 feet right from center 1 feet behind

What did your towers calibrate to?

Shawn
flickhtguru is offline  
post #724 of 757 Old 12-27-2013, 10:49 AM
AVS Special Member
 
braveheart123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Lone Wolf McQuade from Islamabad Pakistan
Posts: 1,814
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 115
Quote:
Could it also be because when I took 8 point calibration, for 4,5,6 position readings, I put mic about 4 feet ahead from MLP?

Yes. I never went beyond 3 ft of the first position in 8 point calibration when I used Audyssey.

History is written by those who have hanged heroes ...

The best EQ is no EQ ...

Alpine SWR-1223D Slot Ported HT Sub

Dual Dayton RSS390HO-4 Reference 15 Build For HT

Main System: Klipsch RF-82 II, Klipsch RC-62 II, RS-52 II, Onkyo 5010, Rythmik FV15HP, PSB S300
braveheart123 is offline  
post #725 of 757 Old 12-27-2013, 11:52 AM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
SherazNJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 643
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by flickhtguru View Post

What did your towers calibrate to?
Left tower = -1
Right tower = -1.5
Center = -6.5
SherazNJ is offline  
post #726 of 757 Old 12-27-2013, 11:53 AM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
SherazNJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 643
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by braveheart123 View Post

Yes. I never went beyond 3 ft of the first position in 8 point calibration when I used Audyssey.
Yes and I think that 8 point is to calibrate for more that one row which I don't have. Audyssey always suggests to provide more data (more points) but then it can also mislead the system if I have only one row but placing mics all around as if I have more rows.
When Craig came to my house (where are you buddy???), he calibrated up to 3 points and left and right were also very darn close to MLP (in between seat area).
SherazNJ is offline  
post #727 of 757 Old 12-27-2013, 12:04 PM
Senior Member
 
Dave A.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 204
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by SherazNJ View Post

Yes and I think that 8 point is to calibrate for more that one row which I don't have. Audyssey always suggests to provide more data (more points) but then it can also mislead the system if I have only one row but placing mics all around as if I have more rows.
When Craig came to my house (where are you buddy???), he calibrated up to 3 points and left and right were also very darn close to MLP (in between seat area).

I've read that you can get better results by staying very close to the MLP with all 8 measuring points. The first position is the only one that sets the levels, though.
Dave A. is offline  
post #728 of 757 Old 12-27-2013, 02:25 PM
AVS Special Member
 
braveheart123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Lone Wolf McQuade from Islamabad Pakistan
Posts: 1,814
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by SherazNJ View Post

Yes and I think that 8 point is to calibrate for more that one row which I don't have. Audyssey always suggests to provide more data (more points) but then it can also mislead the system if I have only one row but placing mics all around as if I have more rows.
When Craig came to my house (where are you buddy???), he calibrated up to 3 points and left and right were also very darn close to MLP (in between seat area).

Stay within 3 ft diameter max and you should be ok with your levels.

History is written by those who have hanged heroes ...

The best EQ is no EQ ...

Alpine SWR-1223D Slot Ported HT Sub

Dual Dayton RSS390HO-4 Reference 15 Build For HT

Main System: Klipsch RF-82 II, Klipsch RC-62 II, RS-52 II, Onkyo 5010, Rythmik FV15HP, PSB S300
braveheart123 is offline  
post #729 of 757 Old 12-27-2013, 02:32 PM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
SherazNJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 643
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by braveheart123 View Post

Stay within 3 ft diameter max and you should be ok with your levels.
Ok thx.
SherazNJ is offline  
post #730 of 757 Old 12-27-2013, 02:37 PM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
SherazNJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 643
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by flickhtguru View Post

Yes I am suggesting replacing the "dedicated center" speaker with a tower. A dedicated center speaker only exists for a couple reasons 1). most people can't place a tower or bookshelf size speaker vertically oriented in their rooms because of the TV stand or entertainment center and so on. 2). because most manufactures know that the general public doesn't know better and thinks that you need a "center" designed speaker. The horizontal center is a huge compromise, the dispertion pattern of a speaker is widest in the speakers narrowest demension. So a horizontal center's sound dispertion is from floor to ceiling NOT so much Left to Right which unless you always listen by yourself horizontal dispertion is way more important than vertical. Also the MTM designed horizontal center is the worst cuz of the lobing effect that happens off axis in the all important freq range where the Mid/woofers cross over to the tweeter. Actually a bookshelf speaker laid on its side sounds better than a MTM horizontal center.

The absolute best ideal situaion would be to have in a 7.2 system: 7 identical vertically oriented speakers and 2 identical subs. The most important thing would be to have the front 3 speakers all be identical and all vertically oriented with all the tweeters at the same height which should be seated ear level. I don't have a setup like I'm explaining but I promise you if I had an AT screen I would. With 3 identical vertically oriented speakers across the front the sound will be the same as it pans from one speaker to the next which is what you want.

Thanks for the info. I thought that Center speakers were designed horizontally so that they could cover the sound stage horizontally better. Didn't know that its in fact causing more issue. The time I bought these speakers, I didn't have AT. Now I do. Anyway, I called the guy I bought it from and he said he'll take care of it and will give me a tower instead :-). Hopefully I'll have it tomorrow by late evening.
SherazNJ is offline  
post #731 of 757 Old 12-27-2013, 02:53 PM
AVS Special Member
 
RapalloAV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Posts: 1,727
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 32 Post(s)
Liked: 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by SherazNJ View Post

Thanks for the info. I thought that Center speakers were designed horizontally so that they could cover the sound stage horizontally better. Didn't know that its in fact causing more issue. The time I bought these speakers, I didn't have AT. Now I do. Anyway, I called the guy I bought it from and he said he'll take care of it and will give me a tower instead :-). Hopefully I'll have it tomorrow by late evening.

If you want the best sound from the fronts they should all be exactly the same. A cinema doesn't use a different centre channel speaker to the L+R.

Read this.
http://www.seymourav.com/centerbestpractice.asp
RapalloAV is offline  
post #732 of 757 Old 12-28-2013, 03:59 AM
AVS Special Member
 
flickhtguru's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Lebanon, PA
Posts: 2,458
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by SherazNJ View Post

Thanks for the info. I thought that Center speakers were designed horizontally so that they could cover the sound stage horizontally better. Didn't know that its in fact causing more issue. The time I bought these speakers, I didn't have AT. Now I do. Anyway, I called the guy I bought it from and he said he'll take care of it and will give me a tower instead :-). Hopefully I'll have it tomorrow by late evening.

Awesome!!! I'm sure you will be happy. That's what belonging to this forum does it makes you learn more things and spend more money too. But most times its worth it cuz if your trying to do it right you might as well do it right. Hope you like the results.

Shawn
flickhtguru is offline  
post #733 of 757 Old 12-28-2013, 09:11 AM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
SherazNJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 643
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 18
a quick question guys. As you can see in pics, my sitting arrangement has only 3 seats (Left Center Right). Left and Right seats go only 3 feet from center but my Left and Right speakers are placed all the way in the corners of room toed in to face MLP. Would I get better results if I were to move these side speakers a bit closer to center? I'm not saying to place them exactly opposite to side seats and toe them in to face MLP but to bring a bit closer?
How can one determine how far side speakers be from center speaker?
SherazNJ is offline  
post #734 of 757 Old 12-28-2013, 11:27 AM
Advanced Member
 
rcohen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 875
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 88 Post(s)
Liked: 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by SherazNJ View Post

a quick question guys. As you can see in pics, my sitting arrangement has only 3 seats (Left Center Right). Left and Right seats go only 3 feet from center but my Left and Right speakers are placed all the way in the corners of room toed in to face MLP. Would I get better results if I were to move these side speakers a bit closer to center? I'm not saying to place them exactly opposite to side seats and toe them in to face MLP but to bring a bit closer?
How can one determine how far side speakers be from center speaker?
Putting the subs in the corners will give you a lot more power. I haven't read back through the thread, but also try moving one to the back of the room, to see if that fixes nulls for you. I suggest opposite corners.

If you have the mains further to the side, it will give you a wider sound stage. If you go that route, I'd put some acoustical treatment between the sub and the wall. You could put the mains in front of the subs. Alternately, you could put the mains inside the sub. Good news is that they are further from the wall. It's up to you whether the narrower soundstage is worse or just right.

Regarding the center speaker, try setting the center speaker to phantom (off), to get a taste for the difference in sound. Usually, the main downside of a phantom center is that the imaging breaks down as you move away from the middle seat. If you move your mains closer together, one advantage is that a phantom center works better. A matching center is ideal.
rcohen is online now  
post #735 of 757 Old 12-28-2013, 12:15 PM
AVS Special Member
 
braveheart123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Lone Wolf McQuade from Islamabad Pakistan
Posts: 1,814
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 115
Quote:
How can one determine how far side speakers be from center speaker?

Your speakers layout for the front stage is absolutely fine. The only problem was that you didn't run audyssey properly. Don't over think smile.gif

History is written by those who have hanged heroes ...

The best EQ is no EQ ...

Alpine SWR-1223D Slot Ported HT Sub

Dual Dayton RSS390HO-4 Reference 15 Build For HT

Main System: Klipsch RF-82 II, Klipsch RC-62 II, RS-52 II, Onkyo 5010, Rythmik FV15HP, PSB S300
braveheart123 is offline  
post #736 of 757 Old 12-29-2013, 07:43 AM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
SherazNJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 643
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by braveheart123 View Post

Your speakers layout for the front stage is absolutely fine. The only problem was that you didn't run audyssey properly. Don't over think smile.gif

The reason I asked is because I have to turn the volume up to around -3db to get a good sound level. Before It was around -8/-6. Now its -3/-1. I understand that screen material could be cause a little bit of hindrance if any but its still a big difference..
SherazNJ is offline  
post #737 of 757 Old 12-29-2013, 10:15 AM
AVS Special Member
 
braveheart123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Lone Wolf McQuade from Islamabad Pakistan
Posts: 1,814
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 115
Quote:
Before It was around -8/-6. Now its -3/-1.

That's coz your CC is way too low. It should have the same trim level as your mains if all of them are equidistant from MLP. Run Audyssey again and you should be ok with the levels.

History is written by those who have hanged heroes ...

The best EQ is no EQ ...

Alpine SWR-1223D Slot Ported HT Sub

Dual Dayton RSS390HO-4 Reference 15 Build For HT

Main System: Klipsch RF-82 II, Klipsch RC-62 II, RS-52 II, Onkyo 5010, Rythmik FV15HP, PSB S300
braveheart123 is offline  
post #738 of 757 Old 12-30-2013, 04:25 AM
AVS Special Member
 
flickhtguru's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Lebanon, PA
Posts: 2,458
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 105
Yes rerun Audyssey as suggested and see what results you com up with.

Here is the most recent way I calibrated my system. I used Audyssey Mult EQ and also a Radio Shack Digital SPL Meter.

I set the sub trim in the AVR to 0db I placed the SPL meter on a tripod at my MLP and turned on the 1st sub and adjusted the gain on the sub til the meter read 75db then I turned off that sub and turned on the 2nd sub and adjusted the gain til the meter read 75db then when both subs were on the meter read approx 78db. Then I ran Audyssey with the mic on tripod at all 6 positions as is recommended. Then I went back to the SPL meter at the MLP and then I adjusted the Front L & R to 75db the Center to 81db and all 4 surrounds to 75db. And I put the sub trim level to +6db. So I am essentially running the Center and Subs 6db hot and that is how it sounds best to me. (Also for me the trim levels that Audyssey sets are vastly different than what the SPL meter sets them to to get to 75db on the SPL meter I have to bump up all the speakers 3 to 6 dbs I forget the exact amount).

Also I have my center speaker which is a horizontal center exactly center in the room directly below the TV but slightly angled up toward my ears. My Front L&R speakers are near each front corner of my room the on back corner is 1' away from the front wall and the other back corner is 1' away from the side wall. I have my speakers majorly toed in! I found for my speakers in my room it sounds best to have my speakers toed in so that the center line crosses 1' in front of my ears. This gives the biggest widest soundstage. And it also helps alot with stereo imaging with 2 ch music. Like if you sit in the seat to the left of the MLP you are closer to the Left front speaker but it is angled away from you but you are farther from the right speaker but it is angled toward you. So what happens is the sound stays stereo it DOESN'T collapse to the side of the room that you are sitting on. And BTW I have BIC Acoustech speakers so they have horn loaded tweeters as well.

Shawn
flickhtguru is offline  
post #739 of 757 Old 12-30-2013, 09:22 AM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
SherazNJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 643
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by flickhtguru View Post

Yes rerun Audyssey as suggested and see what results you com up with.

Here is the most recent way I calibrated my system. I used Audyssey Mult EQ and also a Radio Shack Digital SPL Meter.

I set the sub trim in the AVR to 0db I placed the SPL meter on a tripod at my MLP and turned on the 1st sub and adjusted the gain on the sub til the meter read 75db then I turned off that sub and turned on the 2nd sub and adjusted the gain til the meter read 75db then when both subs were on the meter read approx 78db. Then I ran Audyssey with the mic on tripod at all 6 positions as is recommended. Then I went back to the SPL meter at the MLP and then I adjusted the Front L & R to 75db the Center to 81db and all 4 surrounds to 75db. And I put the sub trim level to +6db. So I am essentially running the Center and Subs 6db hot and that is how it sounds best to me. (Also for me the trim levels that Audyssey sets are vastly different than what the SPL meter sets them to to get to 75db on the SPL meter I have to bump up all the speakers 3 to 6 dbs I forget the exact amount).

Also I have my center speaker which is a horizontal center exactly center in the room directly below the TV but slightly angled up toward my ears. My Front L&R speakers are near each front corner of my room the on back corner is 1' away from the front wall and the other back corner is 1' away from the side wall. I have my speakers majorly toed in! I found for my speakers in my room it sounds best to have my speakers toed in so that the center line crosses 1' in front of my ears. This gives the biggest widest soundstage. And it also helps alot with stereo imaging with 2 ch music. Like if you sit in the seat to the left of the MLP you are closer to the Left front speaker but it is angled away from you but you are farther from the right speaker but it is angled toward you. So what happens is the sound stays stereo it DOESN'T collapse to the side of the room that you are sitting on. And BTW I have BIC Acoustech speakers so they have horn loaded tweeters as well.

I did pretty much same steps. I first disabled all Audyssey features and unplugged subs. Then only measures L/R speakers with SPL. It came around 76. Then I Set each sub to around 70 db and collectively they came to 76. Then I calibrated. I also change subs trim to +6db after Audyssey run. I didn't check speakers with SPL after Audyssey as you did. This is interesting. Audyssey sets level around 6db below to get 75 on SPL? May be there is a reason it does that? Since its bringing all the speakers 6db low equally, we can increase volume higher to get same effect. Isn't that correct?
SherazNJ is offline  
post #740 of 757 Old 12-30-2013, 09:42 AM
AVS Special Member
 
flickhtguru's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Lebanon, PA
Posts: 2,458
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 105
I'm not sure why Audyssey does this or why I'm getting those results. Also its not really 6db i think its closer to 4db but yes I suppose you can just turn the volume up higher to get the same output. I do run my Center and Subs 6db hot even compared to what the SPL meter says is 75db. My speaker levels in the AVR after tweeking with SPL meter are something like FL -3db, Center +3db, FR -3db, RS -1db, RRS -1db, LRS -1db, LS -1db, Subs +6db. My distances are FL 12ft, Center 10ft, FR 12ft, RS 8ft, RRS 8ft, LRS 8ft, LS 8ft, Subs 14ft.

Shawn
flickhtguru is offline  
post #741 of 757 Old 12-31-2013, 11:46 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Alan P's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: South Dakota
Posts: 1,752
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 142 Post(s)
Liked: 145
Hey Sheraz - you're running Audyssey with your AT screen in place, right?
Alan P is online now  
post #742 of 757 Old 12-31-2013, 12:35 PM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
SherazNJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 643
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post

Hey Sheraz - you're running Audyssey with your AT screen in place, right?
Yes
SherazNJ is offline  
post #743 of 757 Old 01-02-2014, 10:05 AM
wse
AVS Special Member
 
wse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 6,285
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 105 Post(s)
Liked: 279
Quote:
Originally Posted by flickhtguru View Post

Yes,.....

The absolute best ideal situaion would be to have in a 7.2 system: 7 identical vertically oriented speakers and 2 identical subs. The most important thing would be to have the front 3 speakers all be identical and all vertically oriented with all the tweeters at the same height which should be seated ear level. I don't have a setup like I'm explaining but I promise you if I had an AT screen I would. With 3 identical vertically oriented speakers across the front the sound will be the same as it pans from one speaker to the next which is what you want.

Yes I did that almost with my three B&W 800Diamonds and four 802Ds, and also in the mini cinema with 7 KEF LS 50
wse is offline  
post #744 of 757 Old 01-06-2014, 08:38 PM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
SherazNJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 643
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 18
Finally I got my speaker yesterday. It took a while. Today I put it in center and ran Audyssey. I did 3 point calibration. I placed mic for Left and Right from center around 28 inches away (within 3 feet). Here is the result after calibration.
FL = -1
C = -3
R = -1
SR = -6
S-Back R = 0
S-Back L = +.5
SL= = -6
Sub = -10.5.

I made sure to place SL and SR 3 feet away from MLP. Then I changed sub trim to -5 and here is subs reading. Notice the bump around 110Hz. Is that bump ok?

SherazNJ is offline  
post #745 of 757 Old 01-07-2014, 11:51 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Alan P's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: South Dakota
Posts: 1,752
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 142 Post(s)
Liked: 145
Your graph looks very very similar to mine, although I'm not getting as much sub 20hz extension as you.

Where is your crossover set? if it's at 80hz, you could try raising it to 100hz and playing with the sub distance in your AVR to try and smooth that 100hz hump, although it's not too bad at all.

I notice, just like me, you have a wide dip between 45hz and 100hz....I used just 2 filters in my mini dsp to cure that; a really wide filter at 70hz with a boost of around 5d and a tight filter at 100hz at around -5db. It improved my mid-bass slam a lot.
Alan P is online now  
post #746 of 757 Old 01-07-2014, 02:04 PM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
SherazNJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 643
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post

Your graph looks very very similar to mine, although I'm not getting as much sub 20hz extension as you.

Where is your crossover set? if it's at 80hz, you could try raising it to 100hz and playing with the sub distance in your AVR to try and smooth that 100hz hump, although it's not too bad at all.

I notice, just like me, you have a wide dip between 45hz and 100hz....I used just 2 filters in my mini dsp to cure that; a really wide filter at 70hz with a boost of around 5d and a tight filter at 100hz at around -5db. It improved my mid-bass slam a lot.

not sure what you mean by a dip around 45hz? It's a house curve. so should be increasing from cross over till 20hz.Its not a dip if its increasing or decreasing slowly. Mine goes up to 45 with nice increment then flattens out around 45hz. I did try to see if there is a big difference if I get a house curve from 80 straight to 20 using mini dsp but didn't find a big difference. So sattled with this one. Its better not to use mini dsp if you can get away with it. So far bass sounds really good specially in suspense scene where low pass is played. I can feel bass in my chest very nicely. I don't even have transducers connected yet and feel some vibration.
SherazNJ is offline  
post #747 of 757 Old 01-07-2014, 02:13 PM
AVS Special Member
 
primetimeguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: St. Paul, MN
Posts: 3,664
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 58 Post(s)
Liked: 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by SherazNJ View Post


not sure what you mean by a dip around 45hz? It's a house curve. so should be increasing from cross over till 20hz.Its not a dip if its increasing or decreasing slowly. Mine goes up to 45 with nice increment then flattens out around 45hz. I did try to see if there is a big difference if I get a house curve from 80 straight to 20 using mini dsp but didn't find a big difference. So sattled with this one. Its better not to use mini dsp if you can get away with it. So far bass sounds really good specially in suspense scene where low pass is played. I can feel bass in my chest very nicely. I don't even have transducers connected yet and feel some vibration.

I think a majority of the bass you are hearing is the 40hz and the 110hz because they are 6db higher than everything in between.  If you could tame that upper bass bump I think you would like it even that much better.  :)

primetimeguy is online now  
post #748 of 757 Old 01-07-2014, 02:49 PM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
SherazNJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 643
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by primetimeguy View Post

I think a majority of the bass you are hearing is the 40hz and the 110hz because they are 6db higher than everything in between.  If you could tame that upper bass bump I think you would like it even that much better.  smile.gif
Wouldn't that give you a flat graph then?
SherazNJ is offline  
post #749 of 757 Old 01-07-2014, 02:54 PM
AVS Special Member
 
primetimeguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: St. Paul, MN
Posts: 3,664
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 58 Post(s)
Liked: 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by SherazNJ View Post


Wouldn't that give you a flat graph then?

I'd bring down just the 110hz peak so you and a slight increase from there all the way to 40hz

primetimeguy is online now  
post #750 of 757 Old 01-07-2014, 05:44 PM
AVS Club Gold
 
craig john's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Lancaster, PA
Posts: 10,244
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 34 Post(s)
Liked: 283
Quote:
Originally Posted by SherazNJ View Post

Finally I got my speaker yesterday. It took a while. Today I put it in center and ran Audyssey. I did 3 point calibration. I placed mic for Left and Right from center around 28 inches away (within 3 feet). Here is the result after calibration.
FL = -1
C = -3
R = -1
SR = -6
S-Back R = 0
S-Back L = +.5
SL= = -6
Sub = -10.5.

I made sure to place SL and SR 3 feet away from MLP. Then I changed sub trim to -5 and here is subs reading. Notice the bump around 110Hz. Is that bump ok?

What is your crossover set at for the sub/main spice? What speaker(s) were playing when you took that measurement?

Assuming you have an 80 Hz crossover, that bump at 110 Hz is coming from the speakers, not the subs. You can't impact a speaker-induced issue with an EQ on the subwoofer channel. You can only impact a speaker induced problem with speaker placement or an EQ on the speaker channel.

In order to isolate the issues, you only want to measure one speaker/subwoofer combo at a time. Start with just the CC/subwoofer splice. Put your receiver in Dolby PLIIx Movie Mode, (or Cinema Mode, which ever your receiver calls it.) This will rout all the signal to just the CC. Show us that graph. Show the CC speaker by itself, the sub by itself and then the two playing together.

Then put the receiver back in Stereo and disconnect the left speaker. Repeat the above measurements. That will show us the R speaker, the sub, and the R/sub splice. Then reconnect the left speaker and disconnect the right speaker, and repeat the measurements. This will show us the L speaker, the sub, and the L/sub splice.

Craig

Lombardi said it:
Perfection is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence."

My System

craig john is offline  
Reply Subwoofers, Bass, and Transducers

Tags
Rythmik Audio , Svs Pb12 Nsd Black Vinyl 12 Inch Powered Subwoofer

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off