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post #181 of 757 Old 09-23-2013, 08:59 PM
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Audyssey prompts you at the end of calibration to select either a Movie curve or Music/Flat curve. It also prompts you if you want to enable DynamicEQ and Dynamic Volume. Leave out Dynamic Volume and enable dynamicEQ.

You check audyssey settings in 7006 set up. If it is anything other than movies, change it to movie. Also, enable DynamicEQ if it is not already and then take the measurements.

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post #182 of 757 Old 09-23-2013, 09:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by braveheart123 View Post

Audyssey prompts you at the end of calibration to select either a Movie curve or Music/Flat curve. It also prompts you if you want to enable DynamicEQ and Dynamic Volume. Leave out Dynamic Volume and enable dynamicEQ.

You check audyssey settings in 7006 set up. If it is anything other than movies, change it to movie. Also, enable DynamicEQ if it is not already and then take the measurements.
Marantz 6007 didn't prompt for movie curve after Audyssey setup. It did ask if I wanted to disable volume control which I selected yes. So volume control was disabled, Dynamic EQ was enabled. I don't know if curve was movie though. Working on it to find out.
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post #183 of 757 Old 09-23-2013, 09:58 PM - Thread Starter
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the closest I found is Eq Check option that has two options 1 - Audyssey and 2 - Flat. Audyssey was selected. I don't know if that helps. Also, Audyssey set sub trim to +5 db after Audyssey ran.
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post #184 of 757 Old 09-23-2013, 10:06 PM
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the closest I found is Eq Check option that has two options 1 - Audyssey and 2 - Flat.

Different AVR manufactures use different naming convention for Audyssey's Movie curve. In your case, "Audyssey" is the one for movies. So, select that.
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Also, Audyssey set sub trim to +5 db after Audyssey ran.

You back up the sub trim level in avr to 00 and raise the gain knobs on sub to bump up the level. Both subs should collectively measure around 80dB.

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post #185 of 757 Old 09-23-2013, 10:12 PM - Thread Starter
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You back up the sub trim level in avr to 00 and raise the gain knobs on sub to bump up the level. Both subs should collectively measure around 80dB

You mean at 50.1? The graph I posted was with Audyssey curve selected. Everything was the way you asked for. Only difference was that it has +5 db instead on the gain on subs. I'll change that and take another reading.
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post #186 of 757 Old 09-23-2013, 10:17 PM
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You mean at 50.1? The graph I posted was with Audyssey curve selected. Everything was the way you asked for. Only difference was that it has +5 db instead on the gain on subs. I'll change that and take another reading.

No not 50.1Hz, forget about that now. Simply use the Speaker Levels setting in your avr. AVRs use a wide-band pink noise for level setting which has equal energy in every octave. You just use that to set the sub level.

Also, no need running the measurements again if they were done with Audyssey curve. It will be exactly the same now.

Just play your favourite movie scenes and post your impressions.

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post #187 of 757 Old 09-23-2013, 10:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by braveheart123 View Post

No not 50.1Hz, forget about that now. Simply use the Speaker Levels setting in your avr. AVRs use a wide-band pink noise for level setting which has equal energy in every octave. You just use that to set the sub level.

Also, no need running the measurements again if they were done with Audyssey curve. It will be exactly the same now.

Just play your favourite movie scenes and post your impressions.

Just to make sure I got it righ.
go to test level (that's where all speakers with their levels are and allow to update db) and change sub level until it reads 80 on SPL? I hope I'm correct this time :-).

Also, shouldn't I connect all the speakers and run Audyssey for all 8 positions before setting up sub level to 80? I am asking this because you asked me to now watch movies and see how the system sounds.
1 - Hook up all speakers
2 - Run Audyssey for all positions
3 - Set sub level to 80 on SPL
4 - Enjoy watching movie (hopefully)
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post #188 of 757 Old 09-23-2013, 10:58 PM
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Also, shouldn't I connect all the speakers and run Audyssey for all 8 positions before setting up sub level to 80? I am asking this because you asked me to now watch movies and see how the system sounds.
1 - Hook up all speakers
2 - Run Audyssey for all positions
3 - Set sub level to 80 on SPL
4 - Enjoy watching movie (hopefully)

Yes indeed Sir. I thought you had run audyssey with all the speakers connected including surrounds.

Anyway a couple of things you do before running 8 point calibration.

Make sure your front three speakers (FL, FR, CC) are equidistant from MLP. If your mains are lying in front of the sub then your CC would be slightly pushed back into the front wall. It should form an arch. And don't toe in you mains too much. It will narrow your sound stage.

Once that is done, run 8 point calibration. After calibration, change all your speakers to small at keep 80Hz crossover.

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post #189 of 757 Old 09-24-2013, 09:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Just to get the idea of having subs in the middle, I decided to test them. I didn't move the screen up and therefore sub ports are firing at the screen frame (not screen but frame). I don't know if that makes a big difference.

It turned out that the lower hz are very low. 21 hz and 22 hz are coming in 60 and 100hz spikes up to 86. Huge dips. The closer I brough subs to the center, the lower low test tones (20hz, 21, 22) resulted and highest (100) was around 24 db off.
Then I test one sub in the middle and one opposite to rear wall and the result were not good either.

In conclusion, the best spot for my subs as of now is having them hugging side walls 21" away from front walls.
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post #190 of 757 Old 09-24-2013, 09:36 AM
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Quote:
It turned out that the lower hz are very low. 21 hz and 22 hz are coming in 60 and 100hz spikes up to 86. Huge dips. The closer I brough subs to the center, the lower low test tones (20hz, 21, 22) resulted and highest (100) was around 24 db off.
Then I test one sub in the middle and one opposite to rear wall and the result were not good either.

That's coz you have no reinforcement for bass frequencies from the rear wall and that L shape room. Also your seating area is close to the middle of listening area.

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post #191 of 757 Old 09-24-2013, 11:07 AM - Thread Starter
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And here is our final result
1 - Before Audyssey: Only subs attached reading
2 - After running Audyssey will all subs connected. Set Speakers to small with 80 crossover. I also checked subs level after Audyssey completed for all 8 points and it was 0. So Audyssey didn't change that.

Before


After


What do you guys think?
Now I'm going to make an expresso for myself and watch some movies later on.
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post #192 of 757 Old 09-24-2013, 11:22 AM
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That's looks good; but it will sound a tad weaker in the low-end. Nevertheless, you may have different listening preferences. Anyway, listening is believing and trust your ears. If you feel bass is less; don't go past +2 or max +3 in AVR sub trmi level. If still less; raise the gain knob on the subs. Don't go past 2 o clock max.

Have a crack at your favourite movies scenes and post back the results.

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post #193 of 757 Old 09-24-2013, 01:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by braveheart123 View Post

That's looks good; but it will sound a tad weaker in the low-end. Nevertheless, you may have different listening preferences. Anyway, listening is believing and trust your ears. If you feel bass is less; don't go past +2 or max +3 in AVR sub trmi level. If still less; raise the gain knob on the subs. Don't go past 2 o clock max.

Have a crack at your favourite movies scenes and post back the results.

Wil do :-)

Next will be to get rid of reflection and put base traps. Garra read a lot more now :-)
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post #194 of 757 Old 09-24-2013, 02:51 PM
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I think you will end up wanting the subs a tad bit higher...most room correction software tends to set the subs weak. That being said if you decide to add a little bit of gain bump them up on the back of the sub instead of adding positive gain in the AVR. PSA subs work the best with the gain between 2-3:00.
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post #195 of 757 Old 09-24-2013, 02:55 PM
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

I think you will end up wanting the subs a tad bit higher...most room correction software tends to set the subs weak. That being said if you decide to add a little bit of gain bump them up on the back of the sub instead of adding positive gain in the AVR. PSA subs work the best with the gain between 2-3:00.
Or, just turn on Dynamic EQ.

SherazNJ, are you familiar with the well-vetted Audyssey Setup Guide available on this forum?

http://www.avsforum.com/t/795421/official-audyssey-thread-faq-in-post-1/5700#post_14456895

It was written by a forum member, with input and oversight from Chris Kyriakakis, the Cheif Technical Officer of Audyssey. It has lots of helpful hints and setup instructions.

Also, there is the excellent Audyssey FAQ, written by another forum member:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/795421/official-audyssey-thread-faq-in-post-1/51750#post_21782993

Between the 2, all your Audyssey questions should be answered.

Craig

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post #196 of 757 Old 09-24-2013, 03:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craig john View Post

Or, just turn on Dynamic EQ.

SherazNJ, are you familiar with the well-vetted Audyssey Setup Guide available on this forum?

http://www.avsforum.com/t/795421/official-audyssey-thread-faq-in-post-1/5700#post_14456895

It was written by a forum member, with input and oversight from Chris Kyriakakis, the Cheif Technical Officer of Audyssey. It has lots of helpful hints and setup instructions.

Also, there is the excellent Audyssey FAQ, written by another forum member:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/795421/official-audyssey-thread-faq-in-post-1/51750#post_21782993

Between the 2, all your Audyssey questions should be answered.

Craig
Yes I'm familiar with them and thanks for the links. They are great resource. Dynamic EQ is on by default after calibration.
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post #197 of 757 Old 09-24-2013, 03:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Here is how it should be done
and here is the summary. First of all, increasing the sub from avr trim is same as increasing it on sub. One catch is that you shouldn't exceed 3 db +/-. So If you need to increase more, turn up gain on subs and then rerun Audyssey. Then you still have option to change if you want more from avr.
Bottom line: Keep sub trim level in avr in between 3db +/-. If you change gain on sub, re-calibrate.
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post #198 of 757 Old 09-24-2013, 03:58 PM
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Originally Posted by SherazNJ View Post

Yes I'm familiar with them and thanks for the links. They are great resource. Dynamic EQ is on by default after calibration.
Did you take your measurements with Dynamic EQ on? If so, turn it off and re-measure.

Craig

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post #199 of 757 Old 09-24-2013, 05:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by craig john View Post

Did you take your measurements with Dynamic EQ on? If so, turn it off and re-measure.

Craig
May I ask the reason of doing that? Are we trying to find out what EQ changes?
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post #200 of 757 Old 09-24-2013, 05:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craig john View Post

Or, just turn on Dynamic EQ.

SherazNJ, are you familiar with the well-vetted Audyssey Setup Guide available on this forum?

http://www.avsforum.com/t/795421/official-audyssey-thread-faq-in-post-1/5700#post_14456895

It was written by a forum member, with input and oversight from Chris Kyriakakis, the Cheif Technical Officer of Audyssey. It has lots of helpful hints and setup instructions.

Also, there is the excellent Audyssey FAQ, written by another forum member:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/795421/official-audyssey-thread-faq-in-post-1/51750#post_21782993

Between the 2, all your Audyssey questions should be answered.

Craig

I knew about FAQ 101 but there are many useful links and docs. Thanks so much for the link.
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post #201 of 757 Old 09-24-2013, 05:52 PM - Thread Starter
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I was just watching Lord of the rings and few scenes. I did feel that the base needed to be a bit more hot. I changed arv level from 0 to 2 and then finally 3 and felt base a lot more. But I felt that speakers were not doing as good as compared to when they were in the corner. Another interesting observation is that Audyssey for the first time detected my speakers as small. I felt that the sound as dying very quickly or the subs were taking them over. I didn't change sub trim to 3 directly. I went step by step to get where I liked subs depth and loudness.

I still feel the emptiness of sound. Base is fine though if not great. I wonder if installing acoustic panels will make a big difference?
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post #202 of 757 Old 09-24-2013, 06:23 PM
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Originally Posted by SherazNJ View Post

May I ask the reason of doing that? Are we trying to find out what EQ changes?
Dynamic EQ has different effects at different Master Volume Control settings. When you take measurements, you want to see the "baseline" response, not the response with a variable "add-on" EQ. If your non-DEQ response is flat or down significantly at lower frequencies, you'll want to correct that primarily, (i.e., without EQ)

Get the response flat without DEQ. Then apply DEQ and it will work as intended.

Craig

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post #203 of 757 Old 09-24-2013, 07:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by craig john View Post

Dynamic EQ has different effects at different Master Volume Control settings. When you take measurements, you want to see the "baseline" response, not the response with a variable "add-on" EQ. If your non-DEQ response is flat or down significantly at lower frequencies, you'll want to correct that primarily, (i.e., without EQ)

Get the response flat without DEQ. Then apply DEQ and it will work as intended.

Craig

I moved the subs to the center of room. I didn't like the sound of speakers. Couldn't compromise. After I put the speakers where they belong and after calibration, they sound great. I also pointed center to angel ears (will buy speaker mount later).

Here are two readings. One with EQ on and one with EQ off. There is hardly any difference there. Please not that I was too last to move all the seats out (tired) and therefore I moved out only MLP seat to put the tripad with SPL on it.

Without EQ


With EQ


lower hzs are good. One bad dip at 44. Any way to fix it? Will base trap help? What about Acoustic panels?
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post #204 of 757 Old 09-24-2013, 11:58 PM
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I was just watching Lord of the rings and few scenes. I did feel that the base needed to be a bit more hot. I changed arv level from 0 to 2 and then finally 3 and felt base a lot more. But I felt that speakers were not doing as good as compared to when they were in the corner. Another interesting observation is that Audyssey for the first time detected my speakers as small. I felt that the sound as dying very quickly or the subs were taking them over. I didn't change sub trim to 3 directly. I went step by step to get where I liked subs depth and loudness.

I still feel the emptiness of sound. Base is fine though if not great. I wonder if installing acoustic panels will make a big difference?

You are having phase cancellation at 80Hz and 44Hz. You need to check if both your subs are in phase with each other and then if they both are in phase with the mains at the crossover frequency wrt your MLP.

What exactly are the distances your avr set for mains, cc, and subs?

Also, make sure Double Bass/LFE+Main setting for subwoofer mode is set to OFF. I don't know what Marantz calls this feature. Those are Onkyo/Denon naming conventions for the feature where mains are treated as Large and reproduce full range signal despite being set as small and their bass is copied below the crossover point to the sub also. That gives muddy bass with less definition.

Make sure this setting is off in AVR.

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post #205 of 757 Old 09-25-2013, 12:01 AM
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I felt that the sound as dying very quickly or the subs were taking them over.

That's coz your room is huge for a 92dB sensitivity pair of speakers, so, the decay time is minimal. Your room is not reinforcing sound.

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post #206 of 757 Old 09-25-2013, 07:03 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by braveheart123 View Post

You are having phase cancellation at 80Hz and 44Hz. You need to check if both your subs are in phase with each other and then if they both are in phase with the mains at the crossover frequency wrt your MLP.

What exactly are the distances your avr set for mains, cc, and subs?

Also, make sure Double Bass/LFE+Main setting for subwoofer mode is set to OFF. I don't know what Marantz calls this feature. Those are Onkyo/Denon naming conventions for the feature where mains are treated as Large and reproduce full range signal despite being set as small and their bass is copied below the crossover point to the sub also. That gives muddy bass with less definition.

Make sure this setting is off in AVR.

Sound (not base) was dull when I had speakers in front of subs. I moved them back and moved subs in the middle of room. Ran Audyssey and posted the graphs http://www.avsforum.com/t/1490184/one-better-sub-or-two-subs/180#post_23768660
After the change, sound is MUCH better. Base is not bad either. My only concern is that drop at 44 and relatively smaller drop at 79.
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post #207 of 757 Old 09-25-2013, 07:14 AM
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As I said earlier;

You are having phase cancellation at 80Hz and 44Hz. You need to check if both your subs are in phase with each other and then if they both are in phase with the mains at the crossover frequency wrt your MLP.

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Main System: Klipsch RF-82 II, Klipsch RC-62 II, RS-52 II, Onkyo 5010, Rythmik FV15HP, PSB S300
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post #208 of 757 Old 09-25-2013, 07:44 AM - Thread Starter
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braveheart:
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To kill early reflections you need acoustic panels on the side walls and the rear walls. This should clear up your mid bass area pretty well. Bass traps can go only in the front corner. You ironically don't have any other area in the listening area where three planes meet.

I don have one more are where three planes meet. Unfortunately it didn't come up in the photo. It is right behind the right seat (about 2 feet away) Here is the scatch of the room



As you can see, I have three points where base traps can be installed. Plus you also pointed out that installing acoustinc panels at early reflection point and in rear will (hopefully) smoothened out the mid base. So, I think I should go for it? Will it also improve the sound quality?
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post #209 of 757 Old 09-25-2013, 08:34 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by braveheart123 View Post

As I said earlier;

You are having phase cancellation at 80Hz and 44Hz. You need to check if both your subs are in phase with each other and then if they both are in phase with the mains at the crossover frequency wrt your MLP.

Both subs have phase to 0. how can I determine
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both are in phase with the mains at the crossover frequency wrt your MLP
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post #210 of 757 Old 09-25-2013, 08:46 AM
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Originally Posted by SherazNJ View Post

Both subs have phase to 0. how can I determine

reverse the phase on both subs and take another measurement. Its trial and error...you might as well try every placement and phase setting combination to eliminate the "what if" syndrome. Just make sure to write down the best placement and settings so you can revert
back if need be.
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