Paradigm Sub 15 competitors on a $4K - 5K budget - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 28 Old 09-12-2013, 12:00 PM - Thread Starter
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I am trying to make a final decision on equipment for my home Theater.  I need to make a final choice on a pair of subs.  I have had a Paradigm Servo 15 in my family room for 7 years and have loved it.  The plan was to put a pair of Sub 15's in the room.  Several people have mentioned that I need to be looking at other alternatives and I am looking for some ideas.

 

The room is 21 x 13 x 9.  It is sound proof construction and will have Quest Acoustic treatments.  My only space for the subs is behind the false wall in the front.  I had to push the false wall back to get the throw ration right and now only have about 23" of depth available for the subs.  My build thread is in my sig.

 

The room will be mostly for movies but I love to listen to music as well.  I love the accuracy and detail of my Servo 15's with plenty of output and want something similar or better.  The Sub budget is 4K - 5K.

 



I also prefer a sealed sub and I am not looking to do a DIY sub.

Thoughts?


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post #2 of 28 Old 09-12-2013, 02:46 PM
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The Seaton HP+ or F2+ come to mind, as do a pair of Rythmik FV15HP's. Either of those should work quite well.

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post #3 of 28 Old 09-12-2013, 04:50 PM
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If its being hidden behind your false wall maybe take a look at a JTR Orbit Shifter ULF. It's the size of a fridge but will blow the roof off of your room.

http://jtrspeakers.com/home-audio/orbit-shifter-lfu/

Like Jim mentioned Seaton subs would be a great option too, you could get the SubM HP or F2
with the master/slave option. Which basically means you use the one sub with power amp to power a passive version at the same the time.

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post #4 of 28 Old 09-12-2013, 05:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

If its being hidden behind your false wall maybe take a look at a JTR Orbit Shifter ULF. It's the size of a fridge but will blow the roof off of your room.

http://jtrspeakers.com/home-audio/orbit-shifter-lfu/

Like Jim mentioned Seaton subs would be a great option too, you could get the SubM HP or F2
with the master/slave option. Which basically means you use the one sub with power amp to power a passive version at the same the time.

I can personally attest, the JTR Orbital Shifter has been the best sub I've heard..........but it's a monster.........with monster output to boot. The sub is exceptionally clean with mega output!

I've been a Velodyne DD owner and still use a DD-12.............IMHO, the DD series is a cleaner sub than any Paradigm's offering...........but the OS really puts both to shame. If I could have fit an OS, it would be in my theater.

My S2 is not as clean nor has the output of an OS............but it sure digs deeper thus requires no tactile transducers..................the sub in itself is a Buttkicker! biggrin.gif

I suspect, if you could fit an OS.........then smoothing can be done with other subs. I'm looking into RythmiK F15's or F-25's. Both are servo........................

From my best recollection regarding your building thread.............rear subs may not fit in back? I could be wrong.........
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post #5 of 28 Old 09-12-2013, 05:24 PM - Thread Starter
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W
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Originally Posted by doublewing11 View Post

I can personally attest, the JTR Orbital Shifter has been the best sub I've heard..........but it's a monster.........with monster output to boot. The sub is exceptionally clean with mega output!

I've been a Velodyne DD owner and still use a DD-12.............IMHO, the DD series is a cleaner sub than any Paradigm's offering...........but the OS really puts both to shame. If I could have fit an OS, it would be in my theater.

My S2 is not as clean nor has the output of an OS............but it sure digs deeper thus requires no tactile transducers..................the sub in itself is a Buttkicker! biggrin.gif

I suspect, if you could fit an OS.........then smoothing can be done with other subs. I'm looking into RythmiK F15's or F-25's. Both are servo........................

From my best recollection regarding your building thread.............rear subs may not fit in back? I could be wrong.........

Since you have the S2 did you compare it to the SubM HP or F2?

I can't fit an orbital shifter behind my false wall and the subs will be upfront.

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post #6 of 28 Old 09-12-2013, 06:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avtexan View Post

W

Since you have the S2 did you compare it to the SubM HP or F2?

I can't fit an orbital shifter behind my false wall and the subs will be upfront.

The S2 was ideal to fit behind my wall.......16-1/4 inches deep.......uses the same amp manufacturer as Seaton but is 4000 watt version. Both F2 and S2 have similar DSP......so it really comes down to driver size as I believe both subs would be similar.

The S2 is a beast and a pair upfront would be more than adequate.....but smoothing throughout all seating positions might be your issue......or maybe not.

I planned on attending the AVS Get-to-gether in Seattle area to hear the Seaton subs but missed due to other commitments. Wish I could help you with differentiation......but I can't.

I suspect the S2 would have more output than F2.......those who have heard both might chime in. I believe two S2's up front would be fantastic.....I bet the same for F2.

With that said....I'll take a pair of OS's. biggrin.gif
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post #7 of 28 Old 09-12-2013, 06:58 PM
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I had a paradigm servo v1 and then a paradigm sub 15 up until a year ago. While the paradigms were great subs, my current dual s2 are every bit as accurate and the output is in a whole different league. For HT it's not even close...music I could live with either brand. I think the JTRs are a much better value as well and are built like tanks.
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post #8 of 28 Old 09-13-2013, 10:36 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by doublewing11 View Post

. I suspect the S2 would have more output than F2.......those who have heard both might chime in. I believe two S2's up front would be fantastic.....I bet the same for F2

I am thinking the SubM HP or F2 performance would be somewhere in between the JTR S1 and S2? A pair of S2's may be more than my room needs. Does anybody have any thoughts about a pair of HP / F2's or a pair of S1's in my room? Which would be better for music and still provide plenty of output for movies?

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post #9 of 28 Old 09-13-2013, 10:48 AM
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My room is similar is size to yours, but more open. I have dual JTR S1's and they are amazing for both music and movies. A pair of S2's would blow your eye sockets out! wink.gif
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post #10 of 28 Old 09-13-2013, 12:30 PM
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A pair of S2's would blow your eye sockets out! wink.gif

I resemble that remark :-)
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post #11 of 28 Old 09-13-2013, 03:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avtexan View Post

I am thinking the SubM HP or F2 performance would be somewhere in between the JTR S1 and S2? A pair of S2's may be more than my room needs. Does anybody have any thoughts about a pair of HP / F2's or a pair of S1's in my room? Which would be better for music and still provide plenty of output for movies?

In all honesty, my room is almost double your size ie. at 4400 cf one S2 loads the room quite well................two would be insane but does not address issues for smoothing. I have approximately 5 feet behind my second row were I can move around a pair of subs which can be hidden and out of sight which I believe you are saying in not possible in your case. I've toyed with the idea of using a pair of S1's in back or another S2, but have not run REW yet..............maybe tomorrow I'll have a better idea.

In your case, maybe a single S2 would be the ticket.........................since subs are located upfront you are not gaining by adding a pair of S1's or F2's. Smoothing in your set up would not be effective with just front located subs. At $3000 + shipping for S2 seems to be more cost effective than adding a pair of whatever up front.
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post #12 of 28 Old 09-13-2013, 07:45 PM
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I think dual S2 would be great in that size room. You can always recalibrate and tune down to your taste in sound. Everyone has different taste. Though dual OS would be wicked but fun at the same time..smile.gif

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Originally Posted by avtexan View Post

I am trying to make a final decision on equipment for my home Theater.  I need to make a final choice on a pair of subs.  I have had a Paradigm Servo 15 in my family room for 7 years and have loved it.  The plan was to put a pair of Sub 15's in the room.  Several people have mentioned that I need to be looking at other alternatives and I am looking for some ideas.

 

The room is 21 x 13 x 9.  It is sound proof construction and will have Quest Acoustic treatments.  My only space for the subs is behind the false wall in the front.  I had to push the false wall back to get the throw ration right and now only have about 23" of depth available for the subs.  My build thread is in my sig.

 

The room will be mostly for movies but I love to listen to music as well.  I love the accuracy and detail of my Servo 15's with plenty of output and want something similar or better.  The Sub budget is 4K - 5K.

 



I also prefer a sealed sub and I am not looking to do a DIY sub.

Thoughts?

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post #13 of 28 Old 09-14-2013, 08:18 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by rhed View Post

I think dual S2 would be great in that size room. You can always recalibrate and tune down to your taste in sound. Everyone has different taste. Though dual OS would be wicked but fun at the same time..smile.gif

 

This may be a stupid question but if you do go to big and turn it down do you loose "efficiency"?  Are you better off driving a smaller set of speakers harder?  


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post #14 of 28 Old 09-14-2013, 11:04 AM
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Better off having ample head room.....................

If you are driving near capacity...............no way to reach + 30-40 db peaks of some source material. Head room is a good quality to have especially with dynamic movie material! So to answer your question................leaving lots of head room is best when selecting subs.
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post #15 of 28 Old 09-28-2013, 10:51 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doublewing11 View Post

In your case, maybe a single S2 would be the ticket.........................since subs are located upfront you are not gaining by adding a pair of S1's or F2's. Smoothing in your set up would not be effective with just front located subs. At $3000 + shipping for S2 seems to be more cost effective than adding a pair of whatever up front.

I just read this again and it got me thinking......is there not an advantage with smoothing out room response when you use 2 subs up front? One sub at the 1/4 width on the left and one at the 1/4 width on the right?

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post #16 of 28 Old 09-28-2013, 03:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avtexan View Post

I just read this again and it got me thinking......is there not an advantage with smoothing out room response when you use 2 subs up front? One sub at the 1/4 width on the left and one at the 1/4 width on the right?

1 sub can not smooth any modes, 2 subs can smooth certain modes depending on placement, 4 subs can effectively smooth all modes. So yes dual subs definately have an advantage, but you need to be flexible placing them where they will sound best, not where you want to put them. Rule of thumb is where one thinks the sub looks best is where it normally performs the least...however you may get lucky.
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post #17 of 28 Old 09-28-2013, 09:30 PM
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I would add JL F113 to your list.

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post #18 of 28 Old 09-28-2013, 10:13 PM
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I would add JL F113 to your list.

Unless the OP needs a very compact sub I don't know why he would go with a JL F113. Although I do think the JL is a great sub, it just doesn't have the steam to keep up with some of the other mentioned subs.

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post #19 of 28 Old 09-30-2013, 06:00 PM
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1 sub can not smooth any modes, 2 subs can smooth certain modes depending on placement, 4 subs can effectively smooth all modes. So yes dual subs definately have an advantage, but you need to be flexible placing them where they will sound best, not where you want to put them. Rule of thumb is where one thinks the sub looks best is where it normally performs the least...however you may get lucky.


He is placing both subs up front...........no real advantage IMHO.

Moving another sub to back or to side is not in his design. I Agee.......placing other subs around room would be much better.........but dual S2's up front is overkill. One S2 is enough for me............I'm currently looking for leveling subs for sides and rear.
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post #20 of 28 Old 09-30-2013, 06:21 PM
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He is placing both subs up front...........no real advantage IMHO.

There's plenty of advantage of two vs one sub upfront, if I turn of one of my two subs it becomes much easier to localize the bass. Two subs upfront still provides plenty of benefits over a single up front.

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Well I think it is dual subs for sure.  So now the BIG question...(2) Submersive HP+ (master/slave) or (2) JTR S1's.  Any thoughts??


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post #22 of 28 Old 09-30-2013, 11:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avtexan View Post

Well I think it is dual subs for sure.  So now the BIG question...(2) Submersive HP+ (master/slave) or (2) JTR S1's.  Any thoughts??

Personally I would go with the SubM HP option over the Cap S1's, I also believe it would be the cheaper of the two options.

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Falcon Screens FVHD105
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post #23 of 28 Old 10-09-2013, 11:33 AM - Thread Starter
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I ordered (2) SubM HP+'s today in black maple. They should be here in 3-4 weeks. I am VERY excited. Now to get the room finished so I will be ready for them when they arrive.

I really appreciate everyone's help with the decision!!

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post #24 of 28 Old 10-09-2013, 05:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avtexan View Post

I ordered (2) SubM HP+'s today in black maple. They should be here in 3-4 weeks. I am VERY excited. Now to get the room finished so I will be ready for them when they arrive.

I really appreciate everyone's help with the decision!!

Nice! Congrats, did you get the two SubM HP+'s or a HP+ master/slave setup?

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Nice! Congrats, did you get the two SubM HP+'s or a HP+ master/slave setup?

I got the SubM HP+ master/slave. It seemed to be a perfect fit for my setup. I'm glad it was an option.

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post #26 of 28 Old 10-09-2013, 07:38 PM
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Quote:
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I got the SubM HP+ master/slave. It seemed to be a perfect fit for my setup. I'm glad it was an option.

Yeah, as much as I really like the Triax from PSA its hard to beat the new master/slave combo from Seaton. Plus the SubM HP performance speaks for itself. IMO much better performance/value then a Sub 2.

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post #27 of 28 Old 10-09-2013, 09:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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Plus the SubM HP performance speaks for itself. IMO much better performance/value then a Sub 2.

 

I was set on getting a pair of Paradigm Sub 15's but I have read of so many former Paradigm owners that had made the switch to the SubM and they have been really happy.  The value is not even close.  The master/slave set up with shipping is only $500 more than a single Sub 15's MSRP.


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post #28 of 28 Old 10-11-2013, 06:07 AM
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