Sub decision- HSU VTF15 or PSA XV30f - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 52 Old 09-12-2013, 02:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Hi all,

Up until recently I owned a VTF3.4 but I sold it to go for something bigger. I've narrowed it down to the VTF15 or the XV30. The main reason I've picked these 2 is that they are within 400 bucks of each other and while I loved the sound of the VTF3 (hence the VTF15) the XV30 intrigues me with it's dual 15s for not a whole (relatively) lot more.

Has anyone heard both of these subs? If so and if you had to choose one over the other..which would you go with and why? Anyone else feel welcome to chime in of course!

This will be used for 70% movies and 30% gaming give or take. Sound quality is a big thing as I loved the way the VTF3 blended with the rest of my system and I don't want to regret giving that up "just" for more SPL. The VTF would be run 2 ports open, EQ2 more than likely as that is how I ran the VTF3.

At this point in time there will only be the 1 sub in the 6000 cubic ft. room.

Thanks!
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post #2 of 52 Old 09-12-2013, 02:29 PM
 
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I'm pretty sure the xv30 will be superior. I just got the xs30 today myself..
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post #3 of 52 Old 09-12-2013, 02:41 PM - Thread Starter
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I have a feeling you are right..they seem close when I look at some of the numbers floating around but I see the XV30 going a bit deeper maybe (in room) and possibly having more tactile feedback... then again the VTF3 shocked me in this room and again I loved the sound quality so I'm trying my best not to just be blinded by the numbers. biggrin.gif
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post #4 of 52 Old 09-12-2013, 02:45 PM
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I would go for a Rythmik FV15HP. It'll extend deeper than either and likely have much better sound quality. Not only is it using a much better driver than either, it has a feedback circuit to correct its cone position.
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post #5 of 52 Old 09-12-2013, 02:50 PM
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Omg. I have to agree with shady on this......eek.gif

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post #6 of 52 Old 09-12-2013, 03:08 PM
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Yup, FV15HP all the way.

The XV30f doesn't seem like great value compared to the VTF-15H. According to PSA's own numbers, it only has a 3dB edge over the XV15, which means that the XV30f only has a ~1.5dB advantage over the VTF-15H according to Josh Ricci's new numbers. Additionally, the VTF-15H seems to have a slight advantage in extension, although it will probably not be noticeable in your big room.
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post #7 of 52 Old 09-12-2013, 08:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tenderchkn View Post

Yup, FV15HP all the way.

The XV30f doesn't seem like great value compared to the VTF-15H. According to PSA's own numbers, it only has a 3dB edge over the XV15, which means that the XV30f only has a ~1.5dB advantage over the VTF-15H according to Josh Ricci's new numbers. Additionally, the VTF-15H seems to have a slight advantage in extension, although it will probably not be noticeable in your big room.

The XV15 and VTF-15 average out very close. They both average 110db 16-125hz with the VTF15 in 1 port and 111db in 2 port. The XV30 would have 2-3db advantage in most of the FR and up to 4db around 50-60hz. That being said I agree the FV15HP is the sub to get, but the XV30 is closer to the FV15HP then you might think.

Rythmik FV15HP 16-30hz average in 2 port = 110.2db, 20-125hz = 116.7db

PSA XV30 16 -30hz avearage = 108.65db, 20-125hz = 115.2db

Remeber Ricci said the XV15 numbers are between 1-2db low due to mic placement in relation to the driver when testing. So you would add 4-5db to the XV15 numbers to get XV30 numbers. Also the lower end could be a bit more since the XV30 has less compression then the XV15.
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post #8 of 52 Old 09-13-2013, 06:09 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

The XV15 and VTF-15 average out very close. They both average 110db 16-125hz with the VTF15 in 1 port and 111db in 2 port. The XV30 would have 2-3db advantage in most of the FR and up to 4db around 50-60hz. That being said I agree the FV15HP is the sub to get, but the XV30 is closer to the FV15HP then you might think.

Rythmik FV15HP 16-30hz average in 2 port = 110.2db, 20-125hz = 116.7db

PSA XV30 16 -30hz avearage = 108.65db, 20-125hz = 115.2db

Remeber Ricci said the XV15 numbers are between 1-2db low due to mic placement in relation to the driver when testing. So you would add 4-5db to the XV15 numbers to get XV30 numbers. Also the lower end could be a bit more since the XV30 has less compression then the XV15.

I'll have to consider the FV15HP it sounds like. It's amazing to me that it looks to be outperforming the XV30.I do like the smaller footprint.
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post #9 of 52 Old 09-13-2013, 07:44 AM
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^^
If you like your vtf3.4, you are going to like the FV15hp a lot. I upgraded to the FV15hp from HSU VTF2.3 and the difference is substantial. Like you, I love the HSU vtf2.3 but wanted to upgrade to the vtf15h but when I went and auditioned the dual vtf15h's at their head quarter in Anaheim, CA, they did not impress me as I expected. The hunt continued and after reading threads after threads, reviews after reviews, and all the GTGs here, I decided with the fv15hp (550W version which is no longer available), and it is a hell of a sub (deep, loud and articulate). The XV30 was not available when I upgraded but from what I have read here, it is also a great sub.
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post #10 of 52 Old 09-14-2013, 01:11 PM
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I haven't heard the VTF15 but I have the xv30f and used to have a VTF3.4.

I can say that the xv30 sounds more effortless and has a much more tactile feel from the couch.. my house sits on a slab and my 8000+ cubic ft room is nicely pressurized. I feel the rumble to a degree I never did on the vtf3.

Having said all that, I get what you are saying about the Hsu sound. I've not been able to replicate it with the xv30.. it's just a different sound.

I had the same concerns as you originally so I called Hsu to address this and was told that the vtf15 would sound different than the vtf3.4. Based on that info I took a chance with the PSA sub.

I AM curious about the Rythmik sub as well but I guess I will never know... the xv30f is staying put in my living room.

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post #11 of 52 Old 09-15-2013, 05:28 AM
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Rythmik all the way.
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post #12 of 52 Old 09-15-2013, 02:07 PM
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If I were to drop more money than the VTF-15H then it would be a FV15HP but I am very happy with my VTF-15H.
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post #13 of 52 Old 09-16-2013, 07:09 AM
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Man, you guys are going to give me a complex about my XV30f now wink.gif

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post #14 of 52 Old 09-16-2013, 07:44 AM
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If you have the room, consider 2 XV15's. It will cost a little more, but having 2 subs helps smooth the overall response. Something a single sub can't match regardless of how good it is.
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post #15 of 52 Old 09-16-2013, 07:49 AM
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I believe the OP stated at this time there will only be one sub so he should get the best his budget can go.
What is the budget?
We already know the size of the room so this definitely rules out subs under 800.00.
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post #16 of 52 Old 09-16-2013, 08:46 AM - Thread Starter
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Oz is correct...one sub would be best given the layout of my room. The budget is $1500. I think I have narrowed it down to the PSA and the Rythmik at this point unless there is something else I am missing that you would recommend?

I like the idea of the servo but I keep thinking about dual drivers vs. pushing just one driver (old car stereo habits).
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post #17 of 52 Old 09-16-2013, 08:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oztech View Post

I believe the OP stated at this time there will only be one sub so he should get the best his budget can go.
What is the budget?
We already know the size of the room so this definitely rules out subs under 800.00.

To be honest one sub is silly at best. The OP's best bet would of been to add another VTF3-MK4. 2 of these would outperform the VTF-15 and come close to the XV30 from 16hz on up... not mention the main point which is a smoother response across the seats. If one is serious about a good sub system, then they should consider 2-4 subs...especially in a 6000^3 room. One sub can not smooth room modes and nulls, so most likely alot of eq'ing will be needed to obtain a flat response, which more then likely will not happen since nulls can not be eq'd. Also Eq'ing eats headroom and depending on how much is needed that 1000-1500 dollar sub could end up sounding worse with less output then a pair 500.00 sub's. Thats why I went with 3 -XV15's because I could squeeze them in my budget and I gurantee my setup sounds better with more output then any single sub I could by under 2500.00 from 15hz on up. Sure some get hung up on deep extension, but imo no single sub under 2k is going to offer extension into the 10hz range that will be noticed compared to the rest of the FR. The FV15HP might come close but I still think you would need duals to really make use of that 10hz extension.
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post #18 of 52 Old 09-16-2013, 09:09 AM - Thread Starter
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Hindsight tells me a 2nd VTF3 might have been the wiser path as well. I appreciate all of the input so far everyone. I have plenty of things to ponder now smile.gif
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post #19 of 52 Old 09-16-2013, 09:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

One sub can not smooth room modes, so most likely alot of eq'ing will be needed to obtain a flat response.

You can't eq out a null. Raising or lowering the SPL at a null frequency just means you'll have a larger or smaller cancellation. With a single sub, it's nearly impossible to have a flat eq curve.
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post #20 of 52 Old 09-16-2013, 10:00 AM
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Originally Posted by KidHorn View Post

You can't eq out a null. Raising or lowering the SPL at a null frequency just means you'll have a larger or smaller cancellation. With a single sub, it's nearly impossible to have a flat eq curve.

I agree...my post was agreeing with your initial, but was more or less adding to it. Thats why I said a single 1000-1500 dollar sub can sound worse then a pair of 500.00 dollar subs, but I see where I left the pair out. Sometimes my posts are not always clear when I am posting from my phone. smile.gif
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post #21 of 52 Old 09-16-2013, 08:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

I agree...my post was agreeing with your initial, but was more or less adding to it. Thats why I said a single 1000-1500 dollar sub can sound worse then a pair of 500.00 dollar subs, but I see where I left the pair out. Sometimes my posts are not always clear when I am posting from my phone. smile.gif
I bet if you took a poll right now no one would take two 500.00 subs instead of one 1500.00 sub ,true two will smooth things out but in that price range you give up depth and impact .
Some rooms are so bad that two subs have to be collocated as an installer I have seen some really bad rooms that all the equing in the world could not fix and sometimes its just as simple as putting the sub where it works best rather than what looks best.
You would think with everyone pushing two subs forgot how to find the sweet spots in the room how did we ever do it 10 years ago we did a lot of measuring and made wives and girlfriends mad because we put the sub where it would do the job.
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post #22 of 52 Old 09-16-2013, 09:04 PM
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post #23 of 52 Old 09-16-2013, 09:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oztech View Post

I bet if you took a poll right now no one would take two 500.00 subs instead of one 1500.00 sub ,true two will smooth things out but in that price range you give up depth and impact .
Some rooms are so bad that two subs have to be collocated as an installer I have seen some really bad rooms that all the equing in the world could not fix and sometimes its just as simple as putting the sub where it works best rather than what looks best.
You would think with everyone pushing two subs forgot how to find the sweet spots in the room how did we ever do it 10 years ago we did a lot of measuring and made wives and girlfriends mad because we put the sub where it would do the job.

I does not matter to me what others folks would go with..Imo you dont give up anything if the 1000-1500 sub response is full of peaks and nulls. If two subs do not do the job then more need to be added. colocating is far from a solution to fixing a response issue. One sub can not smooth peaks and nulls...its a fact not something I pulled out of a hat. I always place the subs where they perform best. 10yrs ago I did not have measuring gear or care about smoothing the response across the seats so my guests have the same impact as my primary LP. One sub will not achieve that...been there done that.
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post #24 of 52 Old 09-16-2013, 09:30 PM
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Hey guys this is completely worthless now right?
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post #25 of 52 Old 09-16-2013, 09:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

I does not matter to me what others folks would go with..Imo you dont give up anything if the 1000-1500 sub response is full of peaks and nulls. If two subs do not do the job then more need to be added. colocating is far from a solution to fixing a response issue. One sub can not smooth peaks and nulls...its a fact not something I pulled out of a hat. I always place the subs where they perform best. 10yrs ago I did not have measuring gear or care about smoothing the response across the seats so my guests have the same impact as my primary LP. One sub will not achieve that...been there done that.
Looking at charts from various posters has not shown a night and day in smoothing but I will agree it does some and looking at dips and peaks that are still there tells me they suffer from wave cancellation as well as boosting room gain but had they took some time to find the best spot a lot of that would be gone and I don't play musical chairs in my room it is set for the best curve from my easy chair since I am the only one in my house that listens to music critically.
As for giving up something if it ain't capable of getting there then it can't be smoothed out and most of those 500.00 subs fall off a cliff after 35Hz.
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post #26 of 52 Old 09-16-2013, 09:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oztech View Post

I bet if you took a poll right now no one would take two 500.00 subs instead of one 1500.00 sub ,true two will smooth things out but in that price range you give up depth and impact .
Some rooms are so bad that two subs have to be collocated as an installer I have seen some really bad rooms that all the equing in the world could not fix and sometimes its just as simple as putting the sub where it works best rather than what looks best.
You would think with everyone pushing two subs forgot how to find the sweet spots in the room how did we ever do it 10 years ago we did a lot of measuring and made wives and girlfriends mad because we put the sub where it would do the job.

Why would you say between $1000-1500 and then just right to $1500 when saying I bet if you put up a poll if people would take two $500 subs or one $1500. I think if the choices were two $500 subs or one $1000, or even two $750 subs or one $1500 sub, most would go with two of the lesser subs.

I think you'd be surprised at how many people that understand subs would choose the two vs one sub setup.
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post #27 of 52 Old 09-16-2013, 09:54 PM
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Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

Why would you say between $1000-1500 and then just right to $1500 when saying I bet if you put up a poll if people would take two $500 subs or one $1500. I think if the choices were two $500 subs or one $1000, or even two $750 subs or one $1500 sub, most would go with two of the lesser subs.

I think you'd be surprised at how many people that understand subs would choose the two vs one sub setup.
I personally don't care but if you want to take the time and make a poll and see the outcome go for it.
I just read a lot of threads where they sold their smaller cheaper subs or moved them to a bedroom and blew their budget on one nice sub and were happier with the outcome.
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post #28 of 52 Old 09-16-2013, 10:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oztech View Post

I personally don't care but if you want to take the time and make a poll and see the outcome go for it.
I just read a lot of threads where they sold their smaller cheaper subs or moved them to a bedroom and blew their budget on one nice sub and were happier with the outcome.

Two subs will always be better them one if you're keeping a relative cost comparison. Of course one $3000 sub would be better then two $500 subs, that's not exactly rocket science. But I'm willing to bet my two XS30's have more output and better room response then a single SubM HP or Cap S1 that I was considering getting.
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post #29 of 52 Old 09-16-2013, 10:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

Two subs will always be better them one if you're keeping a relative cost comparison. Of course one $3000 sub would be better then two $500 subs, that's not exactly rocket science. But I'm willing to bet my two XS30's have more output and better room response then a single SubM HP or Cap S1 that I was considering getting.
Hard to say since we don't have a test on that yet and each room is different I have seen it both ways where it had to have 2 and only one location worked not every room is a nice retangle with proper width to length for sound. But I will agree it takes two subs in a square room one of the worst scenarios for sound .
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post #30 of 52 Old 09-16-2013, 10:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oztech View Post

Hard to say since we don't have a test on that yet and each room is different I have seen it both ways where it had to have 2 and only one location worked not every room is a nice retangle with proper width to length for sound. But I will agree it takes two subs in a square room one of the worst scenarios for sound .

We don't have a test on the XS30's?

Well of course if the scenario was to have two same in the same location you'd be better off with one high end sub. That's not what I meant with two is always better then one sub.
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