What sub would you like to see tested next? - Page 4 - AVS Forum
View Poll Results: What sub would you like to see tested next by Josh Ricci?
PSA XS30 11 9.91%
PSA Triax 29 26.13%
HSU ULS 15 6 5.41%
Rythmik F25 13 11.71%
Captivator 1000 3 2.70%
Captivator S2 13 11.71%
Seaton SubM 29 26.13%
Seaton SubM F2 7 6.31%
Voters: 111. You may not vote on this poll

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post #91 of 104 Old 06-25-2014, 12:08 AM
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Although this is an old thread, I thought there was actually a forum member that lived close to Josh Ricci that even volunteered to let him test his SubM HP but only if Mark gave his blessing. Am I crazy or did I dream that up?

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post #92 of 104 Old 06-25-2014, 04:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LowerFE View Post
Didn't Mark explicitly say he doesn't want the Submersive tested for fear of sales outstripping his supply capabilities after the measurements?
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Originally Posted by Mark Seaton View Post

I've exchanged with Ricci in the past and again recently on getting SubMersives to him for testing when his schedule allows. I'll be caught up to send him some subwoofers in a few weeks, but everyone should know it could take a while for Ricci to have an opening in his testing schedule.
There you have it.

AVR:       Yamaha RXV-375

Display:  Panasonic  TH-50PC77U

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post #93 of 104 Old 06-25-2014, 05:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post
I agree and would take this a bit further even. Lets see how the Dayton 1200 does, and some of the other <$200 subs.
Ditto! Not everyone can afford to spend big bucks on subwoofers. Although I find it highly unlikely for Josh to start testing subwoofers that are this inexpensive.

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post #94 of 104 Old 06-25-2014, 05:17 AM
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No Craig, not directed at you, just a general statement and I said there were risks involved in testing your sub.

I agree with Nube, boosting sales means just raising prices to meet demands, so I don't follow that logic. I am not saying even if the numbers are not as good as expected the sub will be bad, just that every sub gets scrutinized until tested so the submersive is no exception. I want the submersive that has been winning all these GTG's to be tested too, not some new and improved version. Why not show both?
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post #95 of 104 Old 06-25-2014, 05:55 AM
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In addition, I would love to see an ID company have top spot on DB for commercial subs to prove we at AVsforum are not full of it when recommending ID subs. I recommend JTR all the time when it fits their goals.
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post #96 of 104 Old 06-25-2014, 06:01 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by JT78681 View Post
Ditto! Not everyone can afford to spend big bucks on subwoofers. Although I find it highly unlikely for Josh to start testing subwoofers that are this inexpensive.
Look at the poll...its pretty obvious out of all the subs listed the 2 most expensive have the highest votes. You can look up Tom Nousaines list that has over 200subs tested...many of them affordable brick and mortar units and what not.
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post #97 of 104 Old 06-25-2014, 08:40 AM
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Look at the poll...its pretty obvious out of all the subs listed the 2 most expensive have the highest votes.
Sure, they're the coolest. However, once the SPL drag racers are done comparing everything, the measurements won't really matter. The SubM, JTRs, Traixes, etc are already considered top dogs; that's not going to change no matter what the measurements say.

Testing cheap subs is a little different. Nobody is surprised when an expensive sub measures well: it's supposed to. OTOH, if something in the <$500 ballpark does much better than price would suggest, you've found yourself a diamond in the rough. While it won't have the cool factor of the top dogs, from a practical standpoint its something a lot more people would be interested in.
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post #98 of 104 Old 06-25-2014, 01:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Steve1981 View Post
Sure, they're the coolest. However, once the SPL drag racers are done comparing everything, the measurements won't really matter. The SubM, JTRs, Traixes, etc are already considered top dogs; that's not going to change no matter what the measurements say.

Testing cheap subs is a little different. Nobody is surprised when an expensive sub measures well: it's supposed to. OTOH, if something in the <$500 ballpark does much better than price would suggest, you've found yourself a diamond in the rough. While it won't have the cool factor of the top dogs, from a practical standpoint its something a lot more people would be interested in.
Welllll....

While all are top dogs and we all agree that should/will measure favourably...D-B testing would inevitably establish a "king of the hill," thus would have some sort of impact on sales.

Politics...
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post #99 of 104 Old 06-26-2014, 04:43 AM
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The ID market needs a cheap, 15" high output bang for the buck ported sub that plays solid to 20 Hz. Plenty of cheapies below that, SVS has a 10" at that price point, then it goes to $600 for some 12's.

AVR:       Yamaha RXV-375

Display:  Panasonic  TH-50PC77U

LCR:       Hsu HB1.2  HC1.2

Sub:       (2) PSA XV15se

Blu Ray:  Sony BDP-S5100

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post #100 of 104 Old 06-26-2014, 06:50 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bear123 View Post
The ID market needs a cheap, 15" high output bang for the buck ported sub that plays solid to 20 Hz. Plenty of cheapies below that, SVS has a 10" at that price point, then it goes to $600 for some 12's.
That is simply not possible without going DIY. A 15" sub that has high output and digs to 20hz will never be less then 700.00 unless the company is not in the businees to make money. The closest thing is the PA150, but it sacrafices extension for output. A quality driver with high excursion is going to run atleast 150-200.00. A 500-1000watt plate amplifier is going to be in the 2-300.00 range. Then you have the cab cost and factor in the profit...at this point you quickly realize a sub such as the XV15se is a bargain at its price point.
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post #101 of 104 Old 06-26-2014, 06:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
That is simply not possible without going DIY. A 15" sub that has high output and digs to 20hz will never be less then 700.00 unless the company is not in the businees to make money. The closest thing is the PA150, but it sacrafices extension for output. A quality driver with high excursion is going to run atleast 150-200.00. A 500-1000watt plate amplifier is going to be in the 2-300.00 range. Then you have the cab cost and factor in the profit...at this point you quickly realize a sub such as the XV15se is a bargain at its price point.
I think it could be done...look at Reaction Audio's dual 12" BPS212 sub. Take a cab about that size, switch to a single inexpensive 15" driver with a port, tuned to 20 Hz, should be able to achieve the same profit margin at that price point, maybe even better considering one inexpensive 15" driver vs two 12" and a similar amp. Maybe we should start something up?

AVR:       Yamaha RXV-375

Display:  Panasonic  TH-50PC77U

LCR:       Hsu HB1.2  HC1.2

Sub:       (2) PSA XV15se

Blu Ray:  Sony BDP-S5100

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post #102 of 104 Old 06-26-2014, 07:15 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bear123 View Post
I think it could be done...look at Reaction Audio's dual 12" BPS212 sub. Take a cab about that size, switch to a single inexpensive 15" driver with a port, tuned to 20 Hz, should be able to achieve the same profit margin at that price point, maybe even better considering one inexpensive 15" driver vs two 12" and a similar amp. Maybe we should start something up?
Reaction is using 2 low xmax 12" drivers. More displacement then a 15" and twice the voice coils increasing sensitivity. Stuffing a el cheapo 15" driver in a 18x15x18 enclosure with 300watts and trying to tune for 20hz would be a disaster of a 500.00 sub.

There is a reason why the PV15x jumps up to 949.00.
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post #103 of 104 Old 06-26-2014, 07:19 AM
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I suppose it is a good thing I don't build subs for a living

AVR:       Yamaha RXV-375

Display:  Panasonic  TH-50PC77U

LCR:       Hsu HB1.2  HC1.2

Sub:       (2) PSA XV15se

Blu Ray:  Sony BDP-S5100

Apple TV

Harmony 650

miniDSP

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post #104 of 104 Old 06-26-2014, 01:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
Reaction is using 2 low xmax 12" drivers. More displacement then a 15" and twice the voice coils increasing sensitivity. Stuffing a el cheapo 15" driver in a 18x15x18 enclosure with 300watts and trying to tune for 20hz would be a disaster of a 500.00 sub.

There is a reason why the PV15x jumps up to 949.00.
I could not agree more with everything said here.
Although I would not really consider just over 1" peak to peak xmax "low xmax". It may be low by today's standards. It is a trick of efficiency and that is why the 212 is a bit of a mid bass monster and capable of quite a bit of clean output in the most prominent bass region for $500.

Getting lots of good clean output at 20hz requires a fairly large box, ample power and a good bit of driver displacement. 20hz is more felt than heard and it takes a fair amount of SPL to feel it. This is why I do not feel it is in our interest to put out a "budget" or "compact" ported subwoofer at this juncture.

I also will not try and L/T or eq a budget, compact sealed sub to play deep into infrasonics. Simply because it would be difficult for say, a single average 10" or 12" sealed driver to produce enough down there to really be felt and enjoyed by anything but a measurement microphone. There are exceptions, with super high excursion drivers, but the cost goes up. Something like that is attractive because of the size, but there is greater cost involved because super high excursion drivers require more power. You end up with a costly driver and amp to get a small sealed subwoofer that is as powerful as it's bigger bretheren.

We did entertain offering the PV 15x cabinet with something like a 300w amp and a budget 15". but honestly....much of the cost of that model is making a large cabinet, boxing it up and shipping it.
It just did not make sense to skimp on components just to lower the price $100-$200. So we chose the best driver we could find and some rock solid, class AB amps that are proven and powerful as well as having flexible eq.
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