Two JTR Captivator S2's, how low at reference? - Page 2 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #31 of 58 Old 09-18-2013, 06:22 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Gooddoc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 3,379
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post

[quote name="Gooddoc" url="/t/1490537/two-jtr-captivator-s2s-how-low-at-reference#post_23746698"]I've got 2 S2's on the way as well for my 13X28 room. Those numbers are VERY encouraging. I'll be running a couple sealed CHT 18.1s along with them. I intend to spread the subs into all 4 corners with the CHT's acting as fillers with reduced gain so they don't get overdriven.Sent from my mobile phone and approved by the NSA[/quote]Nice! I was at a demo in August where 2 submersives up in the front corners were doing most of the work with a couple SVS 13's in the rear corners acting as frequenting smoothing subs. It sounded really really good! Of course Mark Seaton tuned the system so there ya go... :/

Well, hopefully it works for me too. I don't see why it wouldn't. It seems to me it's likely I'll see a better FR using the 2 CHT's to fill some nulls than just the 2 S2's alone. The trick will be getting the gain on the CHT's high enough to be effective in that role, but low enough that they are not overdriven at the limits of the S2's.

What I need to experiment with is to see if it's better to have both S2's in the corners of the front soundstage and the CHT 18.1's in the back corners, or have an S2 and CHT 18.1 in the front and a S2 and CHT 18.1 in the back( but opposite to one another (if that makes sense:o).

Assuming, of course, that the corner positions even works well...




Sent from my mobile phone and approved by the NSA

JTR Noesis 212HT x 3 (LCR) powered by Lab Gruppen 10000Q amp
CHT SHO-10 x 4 (sides and rear) powered by Denon 4311
JTR S2 x 2
CHT 18.1 x2
Oppo BDP103D bluray player/Sonos/PS3
Gooddoc is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #32 of 58 Old 09-18-2013, 07:27 AM
AVS Special Member
 
jlpowell84's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Eugene, OR
Posts: 3,902
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 79 Post(s)
Liked: 208
You should try and get Jeff's opinion. Also send Mark Seaton a PM and I'm sure he will give you a couple really good pointers.
jlpowell84 is offline  
post #33 of 58 Old 09-18-2013, 07:51 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Gooddoc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 3,379
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 145
Yes, no doubt. I don't want to bother Jeff until he's done building my speakers and sub's smile.gif. But I also like to flesh out the thought process before I talk to either one of them since I get more out of the discussion.





Sent from my mobile phone and approved by the NSA

JTR Noesis 212HT x 3 (LCR) powered by Lab Gruppen 10000Q amp
CHT SHO-10 x 4 (sides and rear) powered by Denon 4311
JTR S2 x 2
CHT 18.1 x2
Oppo BDP103D bluray player/Sonos/PS3
Gooddoc is offline  
post #34 of 58 Old 09-18-2013, 08:10 AM
AVS Special Member
 
basshead81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Fort Wayne, IN
Posts: 5,630
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 1346
The less capable sub should be placed closer to the seating area...so put the CHT's back by the seats and the S2's up front.This way you can run less gain on the CHT's and not limit the S2's capability.
basshead81 is offline  
post #35 of 58 Old 09-18-2013, 08:53 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Gooddoc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 3,379
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 145
That's very well how things could end up. With identical subs my plan for all 4 corners would be solid, but given the disparity with output I'm not so sure. But, since I've never had 4 subs to put in the corners of my room, I'm going to try it and see what the FR curve looks like.

JTR Noesis 212HT x 3 (LCR) powered by Lab Gruppen 10000Q amp
CHT SHO-10 x 4 (sides and rear) powered by Denon 4311
JTR S2 x 2
CHT 18.1 x2
Oppo BDP103D bluray player/Sonos/PS3
Gooddoc is offline  
post #36 of 58 Old 09-18-2013, 10:09 AM
AVS Club Gold
 
craig john's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Lancaster, PA
Posts: 10,245
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 34 Post(s)
Liked: 283
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooddoc View Post

That's very well how things could end up. With identical subs my plan for all 4 corners would be solid, but given the disparity with output I'm not so sure. But, since I've never had 4 subs to put in the corners of my room, I'm going to try it and see what the FR curve looks like.

You might consider the "Geddes technique" as explained by Marcus Mehlau here: http://mehlau.net/audio/multisub_geddes/

Lombardi said it:
Perfection is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence."

My System

craig john is offline  
post #37 of 58 Old 09-18-2013, 10:53 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Gooddoc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 3,379
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 145
Thanks Craig. I'm very familiar with the Geddes approach and what I'm doing I guess could be considered a variation/modification. The Geddes approach is really for use with 3 subs, but the biggest problem I have with the approach is that it sacrifices a lot of sub output.

Not only do I want to use my fourth sub, but I want to use both the third and fourth sub to a greater degree then what a strict Geddes approach would get me.

What I have in mind at this point is a Harman/Geddes hybrid approach smile.gif





Sent from my mobile phone and approved by the NSA

JTR Noesis 212HT x 3 (LCR) powered by Lab Gruppen 10000Q amp
CHT SHO-10 x 4 (sides and rear) powered by Denon 4311
JTR S2 x 2
CHT 18.1 x2
Oppo BDP103D bluray player/Sonos/PS3
Gooddoc is offline  
post #38 of 58 Old 09-18-2013, 12:14 PM
AVS Club Gold
 
craig john's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Lancaster, PA
Posts: 10,245
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 34 Post(s)
Liked: 283
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooddoc View Post

Thanks Craig. I'm very familiar with the Geddes approach and what I'm doing I guess could be considered a variation/modification. The Geddes approach is really for use with 3 subs, but the biggest problem I have with the approach is that it sacrifices a lot of sub output.

Not only do I want to use my fourth sub, but I want to use both the third and fourth sub to a greater degree then what a strict Geddes approach would get me.

What I have in mind at this point is a Harman/Geddes hybrid approach smile.gif

Sent from my mobile phone and approved by the NSA
I was primarily referring to the level-setting part of the Geddes technique. If you use the placements suggested by basshead81, or any other placements for that matter, you'll still need to decide how you set the levels of the different subs. You have 3 choices: level-matching, gain-matching, (although this is harder to do with dissimilar subs), or the Geddes technique.

I am using the rather "random" placement of the Geddes technique but without the volume attenuation. I run my 3 identical Submersive HP's all at the same gain settings, (gain-matched), irrespective of their in-room positioning or the levels measured at one position in the room, (the primary LP.) So I guess I too am using a variation/modification of the Geddes technique, and a hybrid Harman/Geddes approach, (the Harman approach uses identical subs with gain-matching), although a different hybrid than the one you'll be using.

BTW, I think you can use more than 3 subs with the Geddes technique. You just keep repeating the same procedure for the additional subs. In your case, my suggestion would be to gain-match the 2 S2's and then use the Geddes level setting techniques for the CHT subs. If you level match them at the LP, you will likely end up with the CHT subs set too high. The Geddes level-setting technique allows you to get optimal benefit from the CHT subs while staying within their output wheelhouse.

Bottom line, just do whatever works best in your system. You have the benefit of being able to measure your response. Let the measurements guide you and you'll be fine.

Good luck.

Craig

Lombardi said it:
Perfection is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence."

My System

craig john is offline  
post #39 of 58 Old 09-18-2013, 01:04 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Gooddoc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 3,379
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 145
Thanks for your thoughts Craig, very well said and appreciated. I will certainly update this thread as I progress. I hope to have the S2's end of next week.






Sent from my mobile phone and approved by the NSA

JTR Noesis 212HT x 3 (LCR) powered by Lab Gruppen 10000Q amp
CHT SHO-10 x 4 (sides and rear) powered by Denon 4311
JTR S2 x 2
CHT 18.1 x2
Oppo BDP103D bluray player/Sonos/PS3
Gooddoc is offline  
post #40 of 58 Old 09-19-2013, 06:59 PM
AVS Special Member
 
jlpowell84's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Eugene, OR
Posts: 3,902
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 79 Post(s)
Liked: 208
Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

Jlpowell, check out hometheatreshack.com for mini dsp tutorial.

Hey basshead. Can you link that for me? Couldn't find it
jlpowell84 is offline  
post #41 of 58 Old 09-19-2013, 08:07 PM
AVS Special Member
 
basshead81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Fort Wayne, IN
Posts: 5,630
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 1346
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post

Hey basshead. Can you link that for me? Couldn't find it
http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/rew-forum/
basshead81 is offline  
post #42 of 58 Old 09-20-2013, 05:23 PM
AVS Special Member
 
basshead81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Fort Wayne, IN
Posts: 5,630
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 1346
did that help you? there is a youtube tutorial stickied in that forum. thats what I used to get started. smile.gif
basshead81 is offline  
post #43 of 58 Old 09-20-2013, 06:01 PM
AVS Special Member
 
jlpowell84's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Eugene, OR
Posts: 3,902
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 79 Post(s)
Liked: 208
Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

did that help you? there is a youtube tutorial stickied in that forum. thats what I used to get started. smile.gif

Hey ya! Thanks again. I'm going take some time this weekend and get into those threads and educate myself., I wanna go with a mini dsp I'm pretty sure!
jlpowell84 is offline  
post #44 of 58 Old 09-21-2013, 11:52 AM
AVS Special Member
 
jlpowell84's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Eugene, OR
Posts: 3,902
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 79 Post(s)
Liked: 208
Basshead81, I see a number of REW tutorials on your link but I don't really see any info on how to get acquainted with the mini dsp. I did find some forums linked from the mini dsp website though biggrin.gif
jlpowell84 is offline  
post #45 of 58 Old 09-21-2013, 04:57 PM
AVS Special Member
 
basshead81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Fort Wayne, IN
Posts: 5,630
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 1346
oops I linked ya to the wrong section...for some reason I was thinking REW not MINI DSP.


http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/tags/minidsp.html
basshead81 is offline  
post #46 of 58 Old 09-21-2013, 05:23 PM
AVS Special Member
 
jlpowell84's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Eugene, OR
Posts: 3,902
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 79 Post(s)
Liked: 208
^sweet! So do you use a mini dsp?
jlpowell84 is offline  
post #47 of 58 Old 09-21-2013, 05:25 PM
AVS Club Gold
 
craig john's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Lancaster, PA
Posts: 10,245
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 34 Post(s)
Liked: 283
Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

oops I linked ya to the wrong section...for some reason I was thinking REW not MINI DSP.


http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/tags/minidsp.html

Good stuff guys.

Now, can Gooddoc have his thread back? rolleyes.gif

Lombardi said it:
Perfection is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence."

My System

craig john is offline  
post #48 of 58 Old 09-21-2013, 05:39 PM
AVS Special Member
 
basshead81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Fort Wayne, IN
Posts: 5,630
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 1346
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post

^sweet! So do you use a mini dsp?

Yep...pm of you have any more questions. The forum police showed up. rolleyes.gif
basshead81 is offline  
post #49 of 58 Old 09-21-2013, 06:56 PM
AVS Special Member
 
jlpowell84's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Eugene, OR
Posts: 3,902
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 79 Post(s)
Liked: 208
Quote:
Originally Posted by craig john View Post

Good stuff guys.

Now, can Gooddoc have his thread back? rolleyes.gif

Hey you bet Craig!
jlpowell84 is offline  
post #50 of 58 Old 09-21-2013, 07:14 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Gooddoc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 3,379
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 145
Any topic is welcome...I get my subs and speakers Friday, so until then, well, its all good. After that I'll have plenty to keep the thread focused. smile.gif

Sent from my mobile phone and approved by the NSA

JTR Noesis 212HT x 3 (LCR) powered by Lab Gruppen 10000Q amp
CHT SHO-10 x 4 (sides and rear) powered by Denon 4311
JTR S2 x 2
CHT 18.1 x2
Oppo BDP103D bluray player/Sonos/PS3
Gooddoc is offline  
post #51 of 58 Old 09-21-2013, 07:21 PM
AVS Special Member
 
jlpowell84's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Eugene, OR
Posts: 3,902
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 79 Post(s)
Liked: 208
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooddoc View Post

Any topic is welcome...I get my subs and speakers Friday, so until then, well, its all good. After that I'll have plenty to keep the thread focused. smile.gif

Sent from my mobile phone and approved by the NSA

Thanks for not being a forum Nazi. It goes a long way man! I'm really excited for you to get your gear. What exactly did you order again? Also did you make the Sherbourn amp deal too?
jlpowell84 is offline  
post #52 of 58 Old 09-21-2013, 07:30 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Gooddoc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 3,379
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 145
I've got 3 Noesis 212HT's and two Cap S2's. I saw the Sherbourne feeding frenzy today, lol. I've got a Sunfire 7401 that I'm VERY happy with, and at 800 watts/channel x 7 I just don't think another amp will add any more joy to my life smile.gif




Sent from my mobile phone and approved by the NSA

JTR Noesis 212HT x 3 (LCR) powered by Lab Gruppen 10000Q amp
CHT SHO-10 x 4 (sides and rear) powered by Denon 4311
JTR S2 x 2
CHT 18.1 x2
Oppo BDP103D bluray player/Sonos/PS3
Gooddoc is offline  
post #53 of 58 Old 09-21-2013, 08:21 PM
AVS Special Member
 
jlpowell84's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Eugene, OR
Posts: 3,902
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 79 Post(s)
Liked: 208
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooddoc View Post

I've got 3 Noesis 212HT's and two Cap S2's. I saw the Sherbourne feeding frenzy today, lol. I've got a Sunfire 7401 that I'm VERY happy with, and at 800 watts/channel x 7 I just don't think another amp will add any more joy to my life smile.gif




Sent from my mobile phone and approved by the NSA

Nice, your amp is similar but a little more juice! Nice one indeed! Nice order! That is actually the exact order I will most likely be placing. The 212's for sure. I am looking forward to your impressions on dual CapS2's. I was certainly impressed with double wings graph of about 118 db in a 4000cu ft room! I have also heard that a CapS2 will be -6db less than an Orbit Shifter above 20hz and +6db more than an OS below 20hz. My rental is fairly small but open, but years down the road I plan on a sealed room all done up with wall decoupling, double drywall, expensive doors, etc. anyway dual Cap should play 115 db ref down pretty low in a sealed room and decent in an open room. I would do OS's but the are just so damn big! But CapS2's lack just a little headroom so...can't wait for your impressions. Congrats wink.gif
jlpowell84 is offline  
post #54 of 58 Old 09-21-2013, 09:40 PM
AVS Special Member
 
basshead81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Fort Wayne, IN
Posts: 5,630
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 1346
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooddoc View Post

I've got 3 Noesis 212HT's and two Cap S2's. I saw the Sherbourne feeding frenzy today, lol. I've got a Sunfire 7401 that I'm VERY happy with, and at 800 watts/channel x 7 I just don't think another amp will add any more joy to my life smile.gif




Sent from my mobile phone and approved by the NSA

Nice setup sir!!! smile.gif
basshead81 is offline  
post #55 of 58 Old 09-22-2013, 12:52 AM
AVS Special Member
 
jbrown15's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Vancouver B.C.
Posts: 5,149
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 316 Post(s)
Liked: 736
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooddoc View Post

I've got 3 Noesis 212HT's and two Cap S2's. I saw the Sherbourne feeding frenzy today, lol. I've got a Sunfire 7401 that I'm VERY happy with, and at 800 watts/channel x 7 I just don't think another amp will add any more joy to my life smile.gif




Sent from my mobile phone and approved by the NSA

What are you running for surrounds Gooddoc?

My Gear:

JTR Noesis 228HT (LCR)
Axiom Audio QS8 surrounds
Sherbourn PA 7-350
Pioneer VSX-21TXH
JVC RS45
Falcon Screens FVHD105
Dual PSA XS30's (gone but not forgotten)
jbrown15 is online now  
post #56 of 58 Old 09-22-2013, 03:26 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Gooddoc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 3,379
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

Nice setup sir!!! smile.gif

Yessir! It is finally the reference setup I've been pining for for many years but have held off due to cost. After seeing and hearing those Noesis 212's at a GTG though....couldn't shake the upgrade bug smile.gif.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post

Nice, your amp is similar but a little more juice! Nice one indeed! Nice order! That is actually the exact order I will most likely be placing. The 212's for sure. I am looking forward to your impressions on dual CapS2's. I was certainly impressed with double wings graph of about 118 db in a 4000cu ft room! I have also heard that a CapS2 will be -6db less than an Orbit Shifter above 20hz and +6db more than an OS below 20hz. My rental is fairly small but open, but years down the road I plan on a sealed room all done up with wall decoupling, double drywall, expensive doors, etc. anyway dual Cap should play 115 db ref down pretty low in a sealed room and decent in an open room. I would do OS's but the are just so damn big! But CapS2's lack just a little headroom so...can't wait for your impressions. Congrats wink.gif

Headroom is all relative:). I was actually fairly satisfied with my current subs (dual CHT 18.1's) and they didn't extend very deep in my room. They dropped off after 30 Hz and had essentially nothing below 20 Hz(apparently I'm easy to please). So as far as I'm concerned any improvement will put a huge smile on my face.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

What are you running for surrounds Gooddoc?

I'll be running CHT SHO-10's as sides and rears. JTR surrounds are the next upgrade to complete the system. I just couldn't justify the immediate cost given the CHT's are very capable in that role.

JTR Noesis 212HT x 3 (LCR) powered by Lab Gruppen 10000Q amp
CHT SHO-10 x 4 (sides and rear) powered by Denon 4311
JTR S2 x 2
CHT 18.1 x2
Oppo BDP103D bluray player/Sonos/PS3
Gooddoc is offline  
post #57 of 58 Old 09-22-2013, 11:05 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
MKtheater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: New Hartford, NY
Posts: 14,243
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 113 Post(s)
Liked: 408
Gooddoc,
Hey man, I didn't realize it was you! CHT is good stuff for sure and a great bang for buck. The JTR is a great bang, period. Let me know what you think when all said and done which I am sure you will!
MKtheater is online now  
post #58 of 58 Old 09-22-2013, 09:49 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Gooddoc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 3,379
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 145
Will do MK. There's no doubt the Noesis is a big step up from the SHO-10's, particularly with music.

And the S2's are monsters, I can't wait to get them in the system.




Sent from my mobile phone and approved by the NSA

JTR Noesis 212HT x 3 (LCR) powered by Lab Gruppen 10000Q amp
CHT SHO-10 x 4 (sides and rear) powered by Denon 4311
JTR S2 x 2
CHT 18.1 x2
Oppo BDP103D bluray player/Sonos/PS3
Gooddoc is offline  
Reply Subwoofers, Bass, and Transducers

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off