Two JTR Captivator S2's, how low at reference? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 58 Old 09-13-2013, 08:20 PM - Thread Starter
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I have two JTR Cap S2's on order and I was thinking about what frequencies I should anticipate at reference volume with those two S2's in my room(Of course, properly setup with measuring gear)? 15 Hz, 10Hz, 5Hz?

Anyone with a similar setup that has measured? Thanks

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post #2 of 58 Old 09-14-2013, 12:24 PM
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I have an S2 in an approximately 4400 cf soundproofed/sealed space............

Should have graphs later this evening once college football games come to an end.........I could post a few graphs for you here.

Based on data will decide if I need to purchase another S2, S1/pair or some other sub........I'm looking for smoothing at seven seating positions...............
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post #3 of 58 Old 09-14-2013, 02:26 PM
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It depend on sub location in the room, were room gain starts, number of other speakers used, ect, ect. Two to four subs is best for smoothing out a room.

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post #4 of 58 Old 09-14-2013, 03:14 PM
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First attempt with REW on S2...............
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post #5 of 58 Old 09-14-2013, 04:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doublewing11 View Post

First attempt with REW on S2...............


You really need a minidsp to boost up that low end!

Looks great other than that null at 65hz, what smoothing is that though?
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post #6 of 58 Old 09-14-2013, 05:10 PM
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Originally Posted by carp View Post

You really need a minidsp to boost up that low end!

Looks great other than that null at 65hz, what smoothing is that though?

none............

minidsp 10 X 10 is coming...............

Will take another measurement and eliminate Audyssey from chain......that might help low end
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post #7 of 58 Old 09-14-2013, 05:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doublewing11 View Post

First attempt with REW on S2...............

I don't think it should not be rolling off that quickly. Your measurement rolls off more than Jeff's ground plane measurement. Try doing a close mic of one of the woofers. That measurement should be close to the ground plane response and will show if the rolloff is from your mic or room / placement.

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post #8 of 58 Old 09-14-2013, 05:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ironhead1230 View Post

I don't think it should not be rolling off that quickly. Your measurement rolls off more than Jeff's ground plane measurement. Try doing a close mic of one of the woofers. That measurement should be close to the ground plane response and will show if the rolloff is from your mic or room / placement.


Mic is located at money seat..............which is what really matters. biggrin.gif

Will try your suggestion and see what differences there are...................
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post #9 of 58 Old 09-15-2013, 07:04 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doublewing11 View Post

Mic is located at money seat..............which is what really matters. biggrin.gif

Will try your suggestion and see what differences there are...................

doublewing, was that measurement done after optimizing the S2's room position? Also, I'm really blown away by how smooth your FR is with a single sub in your room - even with Audyssey in the chain. It really does look like there is some serious smoothing applied, although I don't doubt you when you say there is not. It's just that I have personally never seen a single sub FR look like that without smoothing.eek.gif You must have a killer room.
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post #10 of 58 Old 09-15-2013, 10:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Gooddoc View Post

doublewing, was that measurement done after optimizing the S2's room position? Also, I'm really blown away by how smooth your FR is with a single sub in your room - even with Audyssey in the chain. It really does look like there is some serious smoothing applied, although I don't doubt you when you say there is not. It's just that I have personally never seen a single sub FR look like that without smoothing.eek.gif You must have a killer room.

I can assure you.............no smoothing................

Just a huge null at 65 hz which is problematic..................and I bet the roll off at 30 hz is due to Audyssey. I have only one location for the S2, smack dab in the middle of my screen to hold up my Triad Gold LCR.

I will be adding more subs in back, what I don't know...................as one S2 is enough up front..............

Toying with idea using two of something behind the second row since I have five feet of empty space calling for subs. Two subs will easily elevate that 65 hz null at money seat. biggrin.gif

The room was professionally designed using Quest panels along with room dimensions selected to optimize sound..............was a little worried about the outcome, yet graphs are turning out better than I expected. Give Erskine Group credit..............
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post #11 of 58 Old 09-15-2013, 10:42 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doublewing11 View Post

I can assure you.............no smoothing................

Just a huge null at 65 hz which is problematic..................and I bet the roll off at 30 hz is due to Audyssey. I have only one location for the S2, smack dab in the middle of my screen to hold up my Triad Gold LCR.

I will be adding more subs in back, what I don't know...................as one S2 is enough up front..............

Toying with idea using two of something behind the second row since I have five feet of empty space calling for subs. Two subs will easily elevate that 65 hz null at money seat. biggrin.gif

The room was professionally designed using Quest panels along with room dimensions selected to optimize sound..............was a little worried about the outcome, yet graphs are turning out better than I expected. Give Erskine Group credit..............

I can assure you.....I believe you.......biggrin.gif

As I said, you must have a killer room and you just confirmed it.smile.gif
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post #12 of 58 Old 09-15-2013, 01:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Gooddoc View Post

I can assure you.....I believe you.......biggrin.gif

As I said, you must have a killer room and you just confirmed it.smile.gif

This graph may help..................turned off Audyssey XT32 and calibrated a little more accurately..........maybe a better representation...............three graphs compiled across front row seating.............again, no smoothing, and I've measured the sub from 0-200 hz, but mic will not measure accurately below 15 hz. Looking on the bright side................Audyssey XT32 neutered everything below 30 hz..............glad I have a minidsp coming. biggrin.gif

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post #13 of 58 Old 09-15-2013, 06:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Wow! What a difference! As Gru would say, "that's what I'm talking bout"smile.gif.

You might want to try a new Audyssey calibration with different mic positions. Sometimes Audyssey just gets it wrong, other times it does pretty good.




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post #14 of 58 Old 09-15-2013, 08:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doublewing11 View Post

This graph may help..................turned off Audyssey XT32 and calibrated a little more accurately..........maybe a better representation...............three graphs compiled across front row seating.............again, no smoothing, and I've measured the sub from 0-200 hz, but mic will not measure accurately below 15 hz. Looking on the bright side................Audyssey XT32 neutered everything below 30 hz..............glad I have a minidsp coming. biggrin.gif


Looks better. A minidsp will definitely help more. It's is strange what Audyssey did below 30hz. I've read people having issues with Audyssey boosting the ULF too much from its leveling process, but don't remember reading anything about it causing a roll off like yours. If you want to try it again, take a look at the official thread and guide.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/795421/official-audyssey-thread-faq-in-post-1
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post #15 of 58 Old 09-16-2013, 03:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doublewing11 View Post

This graph may help..................turned off Audyssey XT32 and calibrated a little more accurately..........maybe a better representation...............three graphs compiled across front row seating.............again, no smoothing, and I've measured the sub from 0-200 hz, but mic will not measure accurately below 15 hz. Looking on the bright side................Audyssey XT32 neutered everything below 30 hz..............glad I have a minidsp coming. biggrin.gif

Very interesting that XT32 had the effect of rolling off below 30Hz. I hardly hear of Audyssey doing that, it doesn't on my setup.
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post #16 of 58 Old 09-16-2013, 05:53 PM
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Very interesting that XT32 had the effect of rolling off below 30Hz. I hardly hear of Audyssey doing that, it doesn't on my setup.

Yeah, but the real issue is why 10 db's difference between 20 hz and 40 hz..................the guts IMHO.

With the length.............room mode is not an issue. I measured one meter from S2 and had almost the same graph but everything was lifted.........................have to figure out what is going on for sure. Looks like a pair of subs will have to be placed behind seating to level things out. Behind seating, I have more options for placement.
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post #17 of 58 Old 09-16-2013, 09:16 PM
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Originally Posted by doublewing11 View Post

First attempt with REW on S2...............

Almost 120db though with a single S2 in a room that size, very nice!

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post #18 of 58 Old 09-16-2013, 09:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post

You really need a minidsp to boost up that low end!

Looks great other than that null at 65hz, what smoothing is that though?

Hey Carp, where would you recommend would be a good place to learn about using the mini dsp? Something along the lines of a 101/201 course?

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post #19 of 58 Old 09-16-2013, 09:27 PM
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Jlpowell, check out hometheatreshack.com for mini dsp tutorial.
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post #20 of 58 Old 09-16-2013, 10:10 PM
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Jlpowell, check out hometheatreshack.com for mini dsp tutorial.

Ok, Thanks man! From the little I know what they do I am sure that is the EQ route I want to head down

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post #21 of 58 Old 09-17-2013, 08:33 AM
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Almost 120db though with a single S2 in a room that size, very nice!

Was the mic and REW calibrated for levels? How close was the subs to the mic? What mic was used?

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post #22 of 58 Old 09-17-2013, 09:53 AM
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Was the mic and REW calibrated for levels? How close was the subs to the mic? What mic was used?

I don't know. Double wing would have to confirm that

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post #23 of 58 Old 09-17-2013, 05:32 PM
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Was the mic and REW calibrated for levels? How close was the subs to the mic? What mic was used?

Yes......................mic was calibrated and used calibration file to do so. All levels were calibrated and reinforced with my SPL meter.

Mic was at money seat ie. middle front row. I also took measurements 1 meter from sub too and graphs were basically the same except elevated levels............same peaks and valleys.

Mic was sourced through Cross-Spectrum and was calibrated.................UMM-6.
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post #24 of 58 Old 09-17-2013, 05:55 PM
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Originally Posted by doublewing11 View Post

Yes......................mic was calibrated and used calibration file to do so. All levels were calibrated and reinforced with my SPL meter.

Mic was at money seat ie. middle front row. I also took measurements 1 meter from sub too and graphs were basically the same except elevated levels............same peaks and valleys.

Mic was sourced through Cross-Spectrum and was calibrated.................UMM-6.

Nice! I got the same mic but don't have a system to use it on yet smile.gif. Those numbers are really encouraging to me as I am looking at a pair of S2's. and years down the road the plans will call for a 22x14ish room all sealed up so I will get great extension as well! Thanks for running such a high spl sweep smile.gif

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How close is the LP or money seat? What was the difference between the speaker and LP measurement? How many dBs or his much do you lose?

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post #26 of 58 Old 09-17-2013, 06:40 PM
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How close is the LP or money seat? What was the difference between the speaker and LP measurement? How many dBs or his much do you lose?

Front row seat is 12.5 ft from sub.......................................when I did a 1m measurement, I was looking at approximately 3-4 db's more.........maybe five. Just a bump in SPL, but no real difference in graph form.

I thought that was very odd.........especially concerning huge difference between 30-40 hz
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post #27 of 58 Old 09-17-2013, 06:44 PM
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Thanks for running such a high spl sweep smile.gif

Yeah...........and I'm paying for it!

I'm so used to running a chainsaw.........................didn't think I'd have issues. WRONG!

It's my own fault................I couldn't find my ear plugs. biggrin.gif
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post #28 of 58 Old 09-17-2013, 08:28 PM
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My stepdad and I used to run an Alaskan sawmill to cut boards for horse stalls & corrals from oak and hickory. Talk about loud, and unbelievably dangerous. Gotta use ear protection, man! Protect your hearing and your teeth, and you'll enjoy your old age. wink.gif

Grats on the awesome results with the Captivator S2, too!
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post #29 of 58 Old 09-17-2013, 10:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post

[quote name="doublewing11" url="/t/1490537/two-jtr-captivator-s2s-how-low-at-reference#post_23745765"]Yes......................mic was calibrated and used calibration file to do so. All levels were calibrated and reinforced with my SPL meter.Mic was at money seat ie. middle front row. I also took measurements 1 meter from sub too and graphs were basically the same except elevated levels............same peaks and valleys.Mic was sourced through Cross-Spectrum and was calibrated.................UMM-6.[/quote]Nice! I got the same mic but don't have a system to use it on yet :). Those numbers are really encouraging to me as I am looking at a pair of S2's. and years down the road the plans will call for a 22x14ish room all sealed up so I will get great extension as well! Thanks for running such a high spl sweep :)

I've got 2 S2's on the way as well for my 13X28 room. Those numbers are VERY encouraging. I'll be running a couple sealed CHT 18.1s along with them. I intend to spread the subs into all 4 corners with the CHT's acting as fillers with reduced gain so they don't get overdriven.




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post #30 of 58 Old 09-17-2013, 11:04 PM
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I've got 2 S2's on the way as well for my 13X28 room. Those numbers are VERY encouraging. I'll be running a couple sealed CHT 18.1s along with them. I intend to spread the subs into all 4 corners with the CHT's acting as fillers with reduced gain so they don't get overdriven.




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Nice! I was at a demo in August where 2 submersives up in the front corners were doing most of the work with a couple SVS 13's in the rear corners acting as frequenting smoothing subs. It sounded really really good! Of course Mark Seaton tuned the system so there ya go... :/

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