So the RW-12D is finally sold out, but what is the RW-12 II? Refresh of a good seller or a predecessor? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 21 Old 09-21-2013, 01:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Okay so the RW-12D gets a bit of love on the low budget front. They have been official cancelled for some time but Newegg had an apparently endless supply until June when they finally seemed to have sold out (right before I decided to purchase a second). Anyway, I've been keeping and eye on Ebay, craigslist and other used/'grey' markets to find another and I stumbled on this.

http://www.amazon.com/Klipsch-RW12II-RW-12II-Powered-Subwoofer/dp/B00EV5AFH8/ref=zg_bs_tab_pd_bsnr_1

Any idea what's going on? It looks to be the same cabinet but no mention of a DSP or display. The driver is different and it is listed as 400W instead of 340.

I can't find any mention of it on Klipsch site. At $500 it doesn't seem to be anywhere near as good as the 12D.

Any budget guys in the know? Thanks.
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post #2 of 21 Old 09-21-2013, 04:05 PM
 
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post #3 of 21 Old 09-21-2013, 04:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Actually I did find SOMETHING on the Klipsch site, but it isn't really informative.

http://www.klipsch.com/rf-600-series

All the way at the bottom it mentions this sub with a pic and some brief specs. It mentions side mounted controls so maybe the moved the display? Looks like maybe the RW-12 lives on in some form. Here's to hoping it sees the $280 price at some point. smile.gif
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post #4 of 21 Old 09-21-2013, 05:05 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by giveup813 View Post

Actually I did find SOMETHING on the Klipsch site, but it isn't really informative.

http://www.klipsch.com/rf-600-series

All the way at the bottom it mentions this sub with a pic and some brief specs. It mentions side mounted controls so maybe the moved the display? Looks like maybe the RW-12 lives on in some form. Here's to hoping it sees the $280 price at some point. smile.gif

Thanks. I'll amend my comments so I don't get in trouble. As you suggest, the RW-12D may have been redesigned into the RW-12II.

Personally, I find the RW-12D to qualify more as "training" wheels as opposed to a final solution. If you're considering the RW-12II, if you can, I'd recommend saving to get better and I'd recommend looking at fifteen inch driver solutions as opposed to twelve inch driver solutions.

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post #5 of 21 Old 09-21-2013, 05:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Haha Yeah I know. wink.gif I'm not considering this version, just thought it was interesing and other might want to know given the following the RW has.

I'm doomed with a 30x30x8 family room open to the rest of the house upstairs. I started with an Outlaw EX basically sitting on it and added a couple RWs to smooth things out.

I'm not digging into good deep LFE without a ton more cash or DIY. But 2 RWs plus 1 EX and hopefully a 2nd EX during tax season should get me OK to good response in 70-80% of movies. But like you said, the RW was a good starter for $280-300 for the average joe that isn't addicted and just wants to have a decent movie experience without tweaking off, buying off, or bargaining with their intimate other. wink.gif The added bonus of an IR repeater and a Harmony remote was a nice feature of the RW for WAF that was often overlooked.
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post #6 of 21 Old 09-21-2013, 06:08 PM
 
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That sounds like a huge room to fill. Maybe one of the PSA, XV30's or the XV30f? A couple of those would go a long way in filling up that 30x30x8 room.

And I know women know how much the WAF messes with our playtime but that doesn't stop them. tongue.gif
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post #7 of 21 Old 10-16-2013, 08:16 AM
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Date first available at Amazon.com: August 29, 2013

Maybe we'll see some of these for $280???

just 1 more pair of KLIPSCH Classic speakers...
RED AND BLUE=MAROON!

PANASONIC 60" PLASMA 3D, DENON AVR-3312CI, LG BD670 3D NETWORK BRD (iPhone APPs), TOSHIBA HD-XA2 HD DVD, SAMSUNG BD-UP5000 HD DVD/BRD, iPod 8 GB, 13.2: KLIPSCH La Scala 1980 (Crites Rebuilt Type AA Crossovers Sonicaps) FRONT, HERESY II "SIGNATURE EDITION" WIDE, HERESY II CENTER/SURROUND, kg2 SB, kg3/kg1 Front/Rear HEIGHT, RW-12d SW, km-rsw
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post #8 of 21 Old 10-16-2013, 08:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

Thanks. I'll amend my comments so I don't get in trouble. As you suggest, the RW-12D may have been redesigned into the RW-12II.

Personally, I find the RW-12D to qualify more as "training" wheels as opposed to a final solution. If you're considering the RW-12II, if you can, I'd recommend saving to get better and I'd recommend looking at fifteen inch driver solutions as opposed to twelve inch driver solutions.

-

Might I ask you to clarify exactly what you are saying in this post? Thanks Bee

EDIT> I'm referring to just the driver size part.

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post #9 of 21 Old 10-16-2013, 09:32 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steve nn View Post

EDIT> I'm referring to just the driver size part.

All things being equal, at 20Hz, a fifteen inch driver has approximately twice the SPL output of a twelve inch driver. Twice the output being a minimum SPL increase of 3db in a sealed subwoofer setting. My above does not address issues of perceived volume increase but instead, deals with SPL increase. As an example, I replaced two of our drivers with twelve inch drivers that have an Xmax of 14.5mm. Using the 14.5mm Xmax as the the standard, if one uses this calculator, all things being equal, there is a +r4dB increase in SPL output when going from a twelve inch driver to a fifteen inch driver.

If all things are equal, going from three twelve inch drivers with an Xmax of 14.5 to three fifteen inch drivers with an Xmax of 25mm, the increase in SPL calculates out to an increase of a +r9dB or ~8x's the the output in SPL. Ten dB being the accepted threshold for the perception of the sound level being twice as loud.

Based on the above, my recommendation is when possible, all things being equal, twelve inch driver vs fifteen inch driver, due to output issues, always go with the larger driver.

(hopefully I got my above correct and what I posted above makes sense to you)

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post #10 of 21 Old 10-16-2013, 10:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

All things being equal, at 20Hz, a fifteen inch driver has approximately twice the SPL output of a twelve inch driver. Twice the output being a minimum SPL increase of 3db in a sealed subwoofer setting. My above does not address issues of perceived volume increase but instead, deals with SPL increase. As an example, I replaced two of our drivers with twelve inch drivers that have an Xmax of 14.5mm. Using the 14.5mm Xmax as the the standard, if one uses this calculator, all things being equal, there is a +r4dB increase in SPL output when going from a twelve inch driver to a fifteen inch driver.

If all things are equal, going from three twelve inch drivers with an Xmax of 14.5 to three fifteen inch drivers with an Xmax of 25mm, the increase in SPL calculates out to an increase of a +r9dB or ~8x's the the output in SPL. Ten dB being the accepted threshold for the perception of the sound level being twice as loud.

Based on the above, my recommendation is when possible, all things being equal, twelve inch driver vs fifteen inch driver, due to output issues, always go with the larger driver.

(hopefully I got my above correct and what I posted above makes sense to you)

-

How would you rate 4 JBL 12 inch subs for $800 delivered

http://www.amazon.com/JBL-ES250PBK-High-Performance-12-Inch-Subwoofer/dp/B00166ZFSO/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1381939252&sr=8-2&keywords=jbl+subwoofer

versus 1 PSA XV15?
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post #11 of 21 Old 10-16-2013, 10:31 AM
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Thank you Bee. I would add to your previous statement I had in question that they're other 12-13” offerings that will far outdo the 12D or many 15” offerings for that matter. That’s why I asked for your clarification regarding what sort of seemed like a blanket statement. A good case in point would be http://www.data-bass.com/data?page=system&id=7 over at data. With SW designs "all else being equal" is a very hard thing to discern being design differences, power, dsp and driver parameters all come into play.

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post #12 of 21 Old 10-16-2013, 10:49 AM
 
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Originally Posted by steve nn View Post

With SW designs "all else being equal" is a very hard thing to discern being design differences, power, dsp and driver parameters all come into play.

The RW-12d is an ~$300.00 subwoofer. My comments included this comment: "If you're considering the RW-12 II, if you can, I'd recommend saving to get better and I'd recommend looking at fifteen inch driver solutions as opposed to twelve inch driver solutions."

I sure wish I could understand what is so controversial about my above. It reads like some just want to find fault with others as opposed to reading the OP's original comments and tying my comments into his.

Based on the OP's original and follow up comments, what would you recommend the OP buy and maybe you'd be so good as to expand your recommendation and lay it out for the benefit of the OP, why you feel this is an excellent recommendation?
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post #13 of 21 Old 10-16-2013, 11:27 AM
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Even if everything else was equal between a 12" and 15", you still may not see a full 4 dB increase because the greater moving mass of a 15" would make it less sensitive. There are too many other variables, and whats worse is you are focuses too much on xmax. There are other parameters that govern a subwoofer's performance.
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post #14 of 21 Old 10-16-2013, 11:43 AM
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No I see you amended/removed, so lets just leave it at that, I already explained it in short. Recommendation.. in the $300 price range I leave that up to more knowledgeable members (like yourself) now that the $278 12D is over.

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post #15 of 21 Old 10-20-2013, 01:47 PM
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Found the RW-12 ii on sound distributors web site $499 today.
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post #16 of 21 Old 10-20-2013, 01:58 PM
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Not worth it imo when you can get a Rythmik LV12R for 589.00 shipped.
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post #17 of 21 Old 10-27-2013, 04:11 PM
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Granted, but what if....I need to put the subwoofer in a built-in wall entertainment unit/cabinet and the room is too large for a sealed subwoofer, and from what I have learned on this forum that a rear firing subwoofer would be bad in a cabinet, thus the Rythmik would be out, and I would need to look for a front firing front ported subwoofer, so the Klipsch RW-12ii may be viable since it is front ported? smile.gif or would the SVS PB-1000 still be better for HT more than music? Thanks!
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post #18 of 21 Old 10-27-2013, 04:26 PM
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Originally Posted by ainsworth View Post

Granted, but what if....I need to put the subwoofer in a built-in wall entertainment unit/cabinet
Unless the unit is made of solid granite doing so would probably create so many vibration noises as to make the sub unusable at normal listening levels. Corollary #37 of Murphy's Law states that wherever subs look the best tends to be where they work the worst.

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post #19 of 21 Old 10-27-2013, 04:37 PM
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That one made me laugh...solid granite...
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post #20 of 21 Old 10-27-2013, 05:52 PM
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Originally Posted by ainsworth View Post

Granted, but what if....I need to put the subwoofer in a built-in wall entertainment unit/cabinet and the room is too large for a sealed subwoofer, and from what I have learned on this forum that a rear firing subwoofer would be bad in a cabinet, thus the Rythmik would be out, and I would need to look for a front firing front ported subwoofer, so the Klipsch RW-12ii may be viable since it is front ported? smile.gif or would the SVS PB-1000 still be better for HT more than music? Thanks!

The PB-1000 would be better imo.
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post #21 of 21 Old 01-12-2014, 09:38 AM
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If anyone has comment on this or other subs around this pricepoint, AND that are 110/220v 50/60Hz switchable, I would like to hear from you. The recent Klipsch models all seem to be autoswitching multivoltage units. This is important to me, as I move between US and foreign mains power. TIA. Paul
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