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post #91 of 145 Old 10-29-2013, 03:57 AM
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This is weird, when something goes out, sometimes it does it at the most inopportune time. Do you have the ability to measure your LFE out jack? I also wonder if resetting all your settings might work? I’m reaching I admit, but I’ve seen it happen.

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post #92 of 145 Old 10-29-2013, 04:22 AM - Thread Starter
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Oddly, I played with the settings this morning but did not play music (need to wait for the wifey to leave), but the speakers were set to large and the crossover at 40. Maybe that's it.

I'll try in a little while. maybe do a full reset (not sure how though), or run audyssey.

You are right about the most inopportune time, I've been dying to get this thing for weeks.

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post #93 of 145 Old 10-29-2013, 04:36 AM
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SWEET! Set your speakers to small and your cross to 80 and you should be good. I would check your other settings also, having your speakers set to large might have automatically changed a few??

EDIT> If I was short last night, it was only that I needed to go to bed.

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post #94 of 145 Old 10-29-2013, 06:51 AM - Thread Starter
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Ugh, underwhelmed. I hope this breaks in well.

The house shakes to the point where the wife will kill me, but the low end power in the listening area leaves a bit to be desired. My old sub could not keep up with the high volumes of my music, this one can, but the bass gets lost. I had to put the gain all the way up and the other to 150. phase doesn't seem to do a thing.

I don't know if i'm doing something wrong, I ran audyssey but it just doesn't feel like the bass is filling the room. Any ideas

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post #95 of 145 Old 10-29-2013, 07:00 AM - Thread Starter
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Excuse me? Did i miss something?

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post #96 of 145 Old 10-29-2013, 07:05 AM
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^^^ Thinking about it I deleted my post. Things are differen't today than what things used to be is all.

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post #97 of 145 Old 10-29-2013, 07:14 AM - Thread Starter
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I still don't understand, please enlighten me.

I'm just asking for help.

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post #98 of 145 Old 10-29-2013, 07:47 AM
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I wonder when you disconnected your old sub your avr updated itself? Thought you had to do that manually but....

Have you gone through and set your sub up properly with your avr completely now, including setting level and re-running Audyssey? You shouldn't run the sub with full gain in any case, but that should be taken care of by properly setting level when running Audyssey. After you run Audyssey make sure to change the speakers back to small if necessary and like Steve said try 80hz for crossover (keep in mind it isn't really Audyssey setting your crossover to 40 or 60 or whatever, as Audyssey recommends setting your speakers to small and crossover at 80, it's the avr manufacturer who has the avr translating the results otherwise).

Did you try moving the sub around for better bass response? Changing phase can be a very subtle difference so don't read too much into that.
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post #99 of 145 Old 10-29-2013, 08:13 AM - Thread Starter
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I did move the sub to the other side of my work bench, it's more wedged between a toolbox and behind a tractor, and i do get much better results, but still with the gain all the way up. with gain in the middle where audyssey recommends there just isn't enough bass. What harm am i doing with the gain up like that?

And I can't seem to find the setting for the speaker crossover anymore so i'm not sure what i's set at now after running audyssey.

I am surprised at how 4-5 feet of movement changes the sound.

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post #100 of 145 Old 10-29-2013, 08:32 AM - Thread Starter
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OK, i found the crossover setting and put it at 80. All of these hours of fiddling has produced much better response. At 80 the speakers are clearer at high volume and the sub sounds a little tighter with the gain lowered a little. With the gain at 12 oclock it still isn't what i want.

I guess this will take many more hours of messing around to get it where i need it. What do you mean by setting level?

On a side note, with the right song, this sub can really pound. Not really with the music i listen to but if I play 50 cent or something, damn!!!

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post #101 of 145 Old 10-29-2013, 03:04 PM
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I thought the Denons had you set level with the measurement microphone to a pre-determined dB level (my Onkyo uses 75 dB for the sub before running full Audyssey), but in the 791 manual it looks like they just have you put the gain on the sub to 12 o'clock like you have now and then run Audyssey and it will set the sub level (trim it's often called) and depending where it sets it then may have you adjust gain and run it again....I'm sure if you check the official Denon 791 thread or the Audyssey setup threads there's plenty of help available.

As to how much bass, a lot of music simply doesn't have a lot of bass content compared to movies or some genres of bass-heavy music. Might also be expectations are higher than a flat setup, but that's your preference. Moving a sub sometimes a very small distance can make a big difference but depends if you have a main listening position or if you're trying to get even response across a big room....

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post #102 of 145 Old 10-29-2013, 06:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovinthehd View Post

As to how much bass, a lot of music simply doesn't have a lot of bass content compared to movies or some genres of bass-heavy music. Might also be expectations are higher than a flat setup, but that's your preference. /quote]

Someone else mentioned this in a PM to me and it's probably hitting the nail right on the head.

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post #103 of 145 Old 10-29-2013, 06:33 PM
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A lot of guys run their subs hot, too...but you should start with flat so you know at least how much you're bumping it up (using the trim on the avr so you can revert to flat when needed). Keep in mind a boost in level will cost in you in terms of output limit as you'll reach limits earlier, just in case you're pushing the sub to high levels (like when you have a strong signal to begin with, the gain to your sub at the highest level, like you were, and then turn the volume up).

Now if you want a larger amount of bass at lower overall volume levels, use Dynamic EQ, it's a loudness contour to help with that....

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post #104 of 145 Old 10-29-2013, 07:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Unfortunately I'm not sure I understand. I did see a flat setting on the avr. As far as pushing the sub, there hasn't been a song or volume level that has given this sub a problem, I haven't heard it struggle at all, just drowned out by the other 4 bookshelfs.

I think I need to Brush up on all the avr settings you are talking about, I thought audyssey took care of all that.

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post #105 of 145 Old 10-29-2013, 07:48 PM
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With the gain at 12 oclock it still isn't what i want.

I would adjust your gain on your sub to what correlates to about –6 to –4 on your SW trim. That way you can ratchet up your sub and still be under the trim rule.

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post #106 of 145 Old 10-29-2013, 08:05 PM
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post #107 of 145 Old 10-30-2013, 02:58 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steve nn View Post

I would adjust your gain on your sub to what correlates to about –6 to –4 on your SW trim. That way you can ratchet up your sub and still be under the trim rule.

And that would be somewhere in the avr settings? I'm doing this all by the cheesy menu buttons I don't have a monitor to hook up to run through the menus.

Unless, can I run an hdmi to my laptop for that?

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post #108 of 145 Old 10-30-2013, 03:46 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks so far for all the help. My other systems are HT's which went together nicely with now tweaking, in a nice small square room, this one is a challenge for me.

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post #109 of 145 Old 10-30-2013, 05:40 AM
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Sometimes they all can be a challenge in one way or another. You do have a window on the front of your receiver that’ll communicate all the info to you yes. Figuring out the different functions of the buttons can be especially tricky if you’re working from your remote though. That being that, I have no experience with hooking up a lap to the receiver, but I see guys do it all the time. Maybe bass or lovin will step back in and help you through that. It's very easy.. I have a old school Denon and calibrate with a disk and spl meter. Anyway maybe a good way to relate to you SW trim and gain/volume on your SW amp/plate is what is the best gear to be running at 55 mph (ok 90 for you) wink.gif in your car. You have a choice in gears and how that relates to the peddle which relates to the engine.

I’m sure you mentioned your receiver model, so maybe I or someone else will download the manual and figure out your trim button. I have a busy day going though. Do you still have your manual thinking about it though?

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post #110 of 145 Old 10-30-2013, 07:19 AM
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Oh a Denon! Page 35.. Press channel level, then toggle down to SW >for increase and

http://sonify.psych.gatech.edu/~walkerb/classes/hci/extrareading/AVR-791-OM-E_009.pdf

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post #111 of 145 Old 10-30-2013, 10:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for that link. I will definitely try this new info.

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post #112 of 145 Old 10-30-2013, 04:31 PM - Thread Starter
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What a huge difference those settings make. I can listen low with lots of bass, I love that, will need time to see what it does at high volume.

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post #113 of 145 Old 10-30-2013, 09:24 PM
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Cool! we're hoping

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post #114 of 145 Old 10-31-2013, 04:45 AM - Thread Starter
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Again thanks for all the help getting to the settings. I do have more questions though, and hopefully after the weekend I'll be able to provide a detailed review of the sub.

If I set the avr sw setting at 0 and the gain at @12 oclock, I get strong bass on some songs and not so much on others (I understand this could be the source material). And the gain would be the easiest way to adjust bass on certain tracks, but here is the problem, take a look at the photo below:





Don't judge the mess, it's a garage and I will put flooring in soon. Anyway, because that sub is so huge and heavy and have to lay down and reach around to mess with the gain. Should I just raise the sw level in the avr and lower the gain on the sub? Or will I lose that punch at high volume?

I remember years ago when i installed car stereo for fun, I always installed a subwoofer control on the dash for this specific reason.

Again thanks all for your continued help and support.

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post #115 of 145 Old 10-31-2013, 05:02 AM
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Just use the adjustment in the avr, lots easier that way (and more precise). You can always turn it back down....

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post #116 of 145 Old 10-31-2013, 05:55 AM
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Quote:
(I understand this could be the source material).

+1 Like lovin says. That’s why we would like to see your trim at around –6 to –4. Of course you want to have your SW gain turned up high enough that with the two settings you’re generally at the bass level you like. So when you do adjust it up you stay under the 0 level on your trim/receiver sw setting. It’s not the end of the world if you do go over though. It’s more of a best practice kind of thing. It has to do with clipping and distortion.

Some material will not have the bass that you think it should and some bass might be more prominent at a level where you might be lacking in your room response. I have no doubt you will find the bass increasing and decreasing as you walk around the garage. If you had a dB meter this would be very easy for you to measure and thus understand your room better. The bass can be more than twice/three times as heavy in some locations. How that location relates to the room and your listening position makes a big difference. Might I ask if you put your SW where you wanted to or where it seemed to have the best response? I understand realistically you can only have so many placement options.

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post #117 of 145 Old 10-31-2013, 06:50 AM
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Another reason you may not be getting desired bass is because concrete walls and floors can negatively affect output.
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post #118 of 145 Old 10-31-2013, 06:59 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steve nn View Post

+1 Like lovin says. That’s why we would like to see your trim at around –6 to –4. Of course you want to have your SW gain turned up high enough that with the two settings you’re generally at the bass level you like. So when you do adjust it up you stay under the 0 level on your trim/receiver sw setting. It’s not the end of the world if you do go over though. It’s more of a best practice kind of thing. It has to do with clipping and distortion.

Some material will not have the bass that you think it should and some bass might be more prominent at a level where you might be lacking in your room response. I have no doubt you will find the bass increasing and decreasing as you walk around the garage. If you had a dB meter this would be very easy for you to measure and thus understand your room better. The bass can be more than twice/three times as heavy in some locations. How that location relates to the room and your listening position makes a big difference. Might I ask if you put your SW where you wanted to or where it seemed to have the best response? I understand realistically you can only have so many placement options.

I haven't trimmed the avr that low, if I did I believe I'd have to have the gain up much higher to achieve my desired results. I have yet to hear any clipping , she seems to handle anything. In fact, if it's too high on a strong track the only drawback is "boomy" rather than tight.

I had the sub where I wanted it and had to move it for better results. If you look at the photo below (this is old photo, it's much improved since then) I had the sub where the cardboard box is under the table but moved it to the other side of the table where it's hidden by my lawn tractor.



Other than sticking it in a corner and taking up valuable tool space, there is no other spot for the sub. So I really don't know if it would even sound better elsewhere. But i'll tell you, last night it sounded great at low volumes after the adjustments. I'm really surprised at some of the earlier comments in this thread regarding this sub.

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post #119 of 145 Old 10-31-2013, 07:07 AM
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Hey that’s good to hear! All you have to do now is get yourself some type of screen now and you can have a little garage party. smile.gif Anyway, look forward to your mini review..

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post #120 of 145 Old 10-31-2013, 07:32 AM
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I'm really surprised at some of the earlier comments in this thread regarding this sub.

What other subs have you owned in the past?

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