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Subwoofers, Bass, and Transducers

blake18's Avatar blake18
10:12 AM Liked: 63
post #121 of 145
10-31-2013 | Posts: 905
Joined: Feb 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by braveheart123 View Post

Your perception of loudness and SQ require rejuvenation. You've heard it a few times, I've dissected it for 2 months on nothing less than 50 movies and countless stereo songs.

That's all fine, but I still think it's a great sub. Especially considering he's getting brand new for way under retail price.
steve nn's Avatar steve nn
10:34 AM Liked: 428
post #122 of 145
10-31-2013 | Posts: 6,207
Joined: Aug 2003
I think the OP has bought the sub and that’s that. Nothing will be really gained by going on about what sub he could have bought or trashing the sub.. or the OP for that matter.
jpcamaro70's Avatar jpcamaro70
10:41 AM Liked: 25
post #123 of 145
10-31-2013 | Posts: 391
Joined: May 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by braveheart123 View Post

What other subs have you owned in the past?

I am by no means trying to discredit your opinion of a sub. More like reaffirm my purchase.

To answer your question though: I'll leave out the countless car audio subs.
My current subs are a supercube 2000, and a klipsch sub 8 (from a set). Prior to this home I've had a Polk (don't know the model) but it was 10". And I had borrowed a friends PSB for a year or so, that was also a 10".

I love the supercube, it's nice and tight, hits pretty low and is great for home theater IMO, but I've never had a sub strictly for music. Like i said I'm surprised because I had low expectations because of some of the comments left and I'm somewhat satisfied at this point. Time will tell as I can get the wife out of the house and use this to it's potential. But it has already done one very important thing which i wanted, provided good low's at low volume. And considering I paid, I'm a happy camper.

Now that i've gotten so much help with the setup, it does continue to get better.
braveheart123's Avatar braveheart123
10:42 AM Liked: 119
post #124 of 145
10-31-2013 | Posts: 1,850
Joined: Jul 2011
I'm glad OP is enjoying the new sub. After all, it all comes down to what one likes.
jpcamaro70's Avatar jpcamaro70
11:16 AM Liked: 25
post #125 of 145
10-31-2013 | Posts: 391
Joined: May 2012
Oh I will bash one thing on the sub so far. In the short time i've had it the vinyl cover on the edge has either peeled or rubbed off on a small spot, this certainly isn't a centerpiece sub. But hey, it's in my garage and will probably end up with Makita tags all over it.
lovinthehd's Avatar lovinthehd
11:18 AM Liked: 1143
post #126 of 145
10-31-2013 | Posts: 7,788
Joined: Dec 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpcamaro70 View Post

Oh I will bash one thing on the sub so far. In the short time i've had it the vinyl cover on the edge has either peeled or rubbed off on a small spot, this certainly isn't a centerpiece sub. But hey, it's in my garage and will probably end up with Makita tags all over it.

As any appliance cabinet in a garage should be!
jpcamaro70's Avatar jpcamaro70
01:57 PM Liked: 25
post #127 of 145
11-05-2013 | Posts: 391
Joined: May 2012
So, I'll give some of my first impressions. I still have yet to see all she's got but came close.

Like I said, at low volumes, using the avr sub adjustments, this provides nice lows, very low, at time a little boomy, but who knows, could be the source or my settings. I'm very happy with it's ability to provide lows at low volume.

Now at high volume. I've only gotten her up to -18 on the Denon volume scale and with the gain at 12 oclock but the avr at -.05 this really had the power to travel. Standing outside my garage, about 25 ft away the bass was very good. I was pumping it all morning but had to keep it there because it was 8am and we have neighbors. I have no doubt that when i get this closer to 0 the sub will have more than enough to keep up. I look forward to really pushing some bassy music through it with the avr set to the plus side. I find myself having to turn the bass down too often.

Which leads to one thing that drives me crazy. I have all different kinds of music on my ipod which is my only source material. I have to adjust the settings a lot to get the desired effect per track, it's almost like there is no happy medium with this sub.

Overall, this thing really digs deep, really deep.
lovinthehd's Avatar lovinthehd
06:57 PM Liked: 1143
post #128 of 145
11-05-2013 | Posts: 7,788
Joined: Dec 2007
Sounds like you like bass a lot, you need more subbage smile.gif

Glad it's working out but that part about having to change the bass a lot from track to track....could be your room has nulls/peaks at certain frequencies thus making different tracks bass seem different. The room is a huge factor with bass.

Boosting the bass on the sub above flat in setup, then adding to it with the master volume control.....be careful, don't blow that driver!
steve nn's Avatar steve nn
07:48 PM Liked: 428
post #129 of 145
11-05-2013 | Posts: 6,207
Joined: Aug 2003
Quote:
I have all different kinds of music on my ipod which is my only source material. I have to adjust the settings a lot to get the desired effect per track, it's almost like there is no happy medium with this sub.

I have no doubt that much of your downloaded material is very lossy. That’s to say the range/dynamics/bass is not all there. +1 to what lovin says also, could be a combination. You are on cement.
jpcamaro70's Avatar jpcamaro70
08:38 AM Liked: 25
post #130 of 145
11-06-2013 | Posts: 391
Joined: May 2012
That driver doesn't sound like it's having any trouble with anything I throw at it. But, is it suggested that I leave the gain at 12 oclock and not go above flat? Or leave it flat in the avr and mess with the gain? And by flat i guess you mean 0.

The latter like i said is very hard to do. This sub is huge and I have it under a work bench, to adjust the gain i have to lay down and reach behind this monster.
SanchoPanza's Avatar SanchoPanza
08:49 AM Liked: 489
post #131 of 145
11-06-2013 | Posts: 3,052
Joined: Jan 2010
It's generally recommended to adjust at the AVR after running Audyssey, because you can easily restore the settings.
basshead81's Avatar basshead81
09:08 AM Liked: 1815
post #132 of 145
11-06-2013 | Posts: 6,690
Joined: Mar 2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpcamaro70 View Post

That driver doesn't sound like it's having any trouble with anything I throw at it. But, is it suggested that I leave the gain at 12 oclock and not go above flat? Or leave it flat in the avr and mess with the gain? And by flat i guess you mean 0.

The latter like i said is very hard to do. This sub is huge and I have it under a work bench, to adjust the gain i have to lay down and reach behind this monster.

calibrate the sub 5db hot...meaning turn the gain to 1:00 and run audyssey. Aud. should set the sub trim level -5db, then you can adjust the avr trim manually. I prefer this method because calibrating the sub @ 0 then adding positive trim in the AVR can clip the signal.
braveheart123's Avatar braveheart123
11:36 AM Liked: 119
post #133 of 145
11-06-2013 | Posts: 1,850
Joined: Jul 2011
Quote:
I prefer this method because calibrating the sub @ 0 then adding positive trim in the AVR can clip the signal.

+1
jpcamaro70's Avatar jpcamaro70
02:39 PM Liked: 25
post #134 of 145
11-06-2013 | Posts: 391
Joined: May 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

calibrate the sub 5db hot...meaning turn the gain to 1:00 and run audyssey. Aud. should set the sub trim level -5db, then you can adjust the avr trim manually. I prefer this method because calibrating the sub @ 0 then adding positive trim in the AVR can clip the signal.

So audyssey should set the sub to -5 with no input from me. Keep the gain at 1 o'clock position and trim the sub with the avr only. Do i have that straight.
jpcamaro70's Avatar jpcamaro70
07:36 AM Liked: 25
post #135 of 145
11-19-2013 | Posts: 391
Joined: May 2012
Ok, so ran audyssey again. This time it set the sub at -12 db with the gain at the 1 oclock position? It just sounds kind of flat there so i trimmed it to about 0 on the avr. It sounds better there. Is this right, should audyssey have set the sub at -12?

I just can't get this the way i want it. The sub sounds better when i stand outside the garage or in certain positions in the garage, but i have nowhere else to put it.
BeeMan458's Avatar BeeMan458
07:40 AM Liked: 801
post #136 of 145
11-19-2013 | Posts: 8,374
Joined: Jun 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpcamaro70 View Post

Ok, so ran audyssey again. This time it set the sub at -12 db with the gain at the 1 oclock position? It just sounds kind of flat there so i trimmed it to about 0 on the avr. It sounds better there. Is this right, should audyssey have set the sub at -12?

I just can't get this the way i want it. The sub sounds better when i stand outside the garage or in certain positions in the garage, but i have nowhere else to put it.

The setting are politely telling you your subwoofer has a problem. You have a weak subwoofer and Audyssey is telling the AVR to turn the gain down to preserve headroom.

Did you set the gain using a sound meter or did you just pick a setting and went with that setting?

Did you take time to download and get a room measuring program like a freeware copy of REW up and running so you can see how your subwoofer is interacting with your room acoustics.

Without taking the time to do what I ask about in my above, just saying, one can never know what's what with what.
SanchoPanza's Avatar SanchoPanza
07:46 AM Liked: 489
post #137 of 145
11-19-2013 | Posts: 3,052
Joined: Jan 2010
-12 is the limit of adjustment for Audyssey, so you need to adjust the volume on the SW down & re-run Audyssey from 1 position until it is less than -12. Some people try to get it to Zero, but between -12 & +12 is OK. Makes sure it's is not really -13, or greater.

Once you get the trim level on the SW OK, run Audyssey, run from all positions.

After that, adjust Bass from the AVR, don't change on SW.
SanchoPanza's Avatar SanchoPanza
07:48 AM Liked: 489
post #138 of 145
11-19-2013 | Posts: 3,052
Joined: Jan 2010
That is try running it at 10 O'clock
jpcamaro70's Avatar jpcamaro70
07:51 AM Liked: 25
post #139 of 145
11-19-2013 | Posts: 391
Joined: May 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

The setting are politely telling you your subwoofer has a problem. You have a weak subwoofer and Audyssey is telling the AVR to turn the gain down to preserve headroom.

Did you set the gain using a sound meter or did you just pick a setting and went with that setting?

Did you take time to download and get a room measuring program like a freeware copy of REW up and running so you can see how your subwoofer is interacting with your room acoustics.

Without taking the time to do what I ask about in my above, just saying, one can never know what's what with what.

Not sure what headroom exactly means?

I do not have a sound meter and set the gain on the sub based on another recommendation on the board.

I did not take the time to get a room measuring program, I'll look into that. I was hoping it wouldn't be this complicated, it's just a garage but i'm being a pain in the a**. It sound incredible to anyone who comes over and i crank it up, but not to me.

I seriously think it's car audio that has me all worked up, I'm looking for something that is to difficult to achieve.
jpcamaro70's Avatar jpcamaro70
08:04 AM Liked: 25
post #140 of 145
11-19-2013 | Posts: 391
Joined: May 2012
Wow, the REW looks very time consuming, and i can barely understand what the tutorial on youtube was talking about.
BeeMan458's Avatar BeeMan458
08:13 AM Liked: 801
post #141 of 145
11-19-2013 | Posts: 8,374
Joined: Jun 2012
Agreed, REW has a frustrating learning curve but once learned, it's all point and click. You can get an inexpensive digital sound meter at Radio Shack that qualifies as the forum standard.

Intentionally overly simplifying, headroom is basically, available amplification above normal play, that allows the sub to explode when asked to, without bottoming out.

Yes, it does take a bit to learn how to get the best out of your subwoofer but in the end, it's well worth the effort.
jpcamaro70's Avatar jpcamaro70
03:18 PM Liked: 25
post #142 of 145
11-19-2013 | Posts: 391
Joined: May 2012
What do you mean by bottoming out? would that be where it can no longer over power the mains?
BeeMan458's Avatar BeeMan458
05:39 PM Liked: 801
post #143 of 145
11-19-2013 | Posts: 8,374
Joined: Jun 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpcamaro70 View Post

What do you mean by bottoming out? would that be where it can no longer over power the mains?

Without reaching the extent of the amplifiers ability. Available amplification, above and beyond normal play is headroom.

"What do you mean we got no more power Scottie?"

"I gave you all we got captain and we got no more."
jpcamaro70's Avatar jpcamaro70
10:00 AM Liked: 25
post #144 of 145
12-04-2013 | Posts: 391
Joined: May 2012
So a friend of mine was over, I think of him as a DJ but he has a studio and records as well. showed him all my equipment and the garage and he pretty much surmised that I'll never get "my" desired effect due to the garage layout.

High ceiling with a loft over half the garage, the walls aren't straight due to the house jutting in, and a tractor, air compressor, work bench, bunch of power tools, refrigerator etc. According to him only multiple subs in different parts of the room would help.

However, he did say it sounded great for a garage.

Yesterday morning I was doing some work in the morning and put the system through it's paces, she sounded good but at the top end BeeMan hit the nail on the head, it just sounds like it needs more power.
braveheart123's Avatar braveheart123
11:01 AM Liked: 119
post #145 of 145
12-04-2013 | Posts: 1,850
Joined: Jul 2011
Quote:
Yesterday morning I was doing some work in the morning and put the system through it's paces, she sounded good but at the top end BeeMan hit the nail on the head, it just sounds like it needs more power.

That sub sounds good at low volumes only and that too in a tiny room. You crank it and the output is badly compressed.
Tags: Klipsch Sw 115 Front Firing Subwoofer , Klipsch Sw 112 Reference Series Powered Subwoofer Black

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