3x5 meter room: SVS PB1000, SB1000, PB12NSD or SB12NSD? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 23 Old 09-24-2013, 02:07 PM - Thread Starter
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I have a 3x5 living room that is part of a larger open space, with a Denon 1713 and B&W 685s. Someone suggested I consider a SVS sub, probably the PB1000.

I want something that sounds good with movie effects but also want a sub that enhances rock and classical music, from drums in heavy metal numbers to the deep hums of a cello sonata. I am not too concerned about volume given I will have a 3 meter listening distance, but want a sophisticated sound when listening to music. I enjoy listening to music each night to unwind am am thus quite confused by which sub I should be considering.

Based on reviews, one would think I should consider the SB1000 for a tighter sound. However, the SB12NSD or even the SB13 Ultra would probably give me a more sophisticated sound if budget permits.

What might make sense?
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post #2 of 23 Old 09-24-2013, 02:31 PM
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What's your budget? For $500 in that size room the PB1000 would be best. $1000 you're into a whole other performance bracket, several HSU models, PSA models, bigger SVS models, and on up as your budget increases. So what are you looking to spend?

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post #3 of 23 Old 09-24-2013, 02:36 PM
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If you are stuck on SVS, I would go with the NSD or better models. They will have better drivers.
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post #4 of 23 Old 09-24-2013, 04:56 PM
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Large open space equals ported sub. Do you have any size constraints?
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post #5 of 23 Old 09-25-2013, 11:58 AM - Thread Starter
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No space constraints though a smaller, less obstructing sub is always a plus. Not stuck on a brand.

The entire space is about 8x8 meters, with the TV in the middle, the couch against a wall 3 meters away, and with the opposite wall a 8 meter stretch of floor to ceiling windows in a condo.

So I can benefit from a larger sub with larger drivers despite the relatively small viewing area? What models should I be considering if I am looking at the PB1000 and PB12 for SVS? Please note the music I listen to.

For SVS, why ported and not sealed here?
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post #6 of 23 Old 09-25-2013, 12:22 PM
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If you find yourself contemplating the PC or PB+ know it is a very substantial sub with great SQ. Don’t let the 12” driver scare you off, it will hang or surpass many 15”s. A good sub will do music and HT well. The amp on the + has dsp options/selectability as well, which can be a big help in dialing things in.

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post #7 of 23 Old 09-25-2013, 01:05 PM - Thread Starter
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...and it won't be too big for my space right?
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post #8 of 23 Old 09-25-2013, 01:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coolnewbie View Post

...and it won't be too big for my space right?

No it would be perfect. You might have a little headroom but that’s a good thing and it can be needed at times considering what they’re coming out with nowadays. You want 115dB peak capable and don’t want to be worrying about not having the headroom to get you there. Yeah the NSD would be good, but imo it would serve you well to just make the jump and be done with it if that’s possible.

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post #9 of 23 Old 09-25-2013, 02:12 PM
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Also consider dual nsd or pb1000

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post #10 of 23 Old 09-25-2013, 07:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steve nn View Post

If you find yourself contemplating the PC or PB+ know it is a very substantial sub with great SQ. Don’t let the 12” driver scare you off, it will hang or surpass many 15”s. A good sub will do music and HT well. The amp on the + has dsp options/selectability as well, which can be a big help in dialing things in.

+1

I used to have B&W 601s (previous version of the 685) paired with an Outlaw Audio LFM-1 EX, which is similar in class to the PB12-NSD. Sounded great together. I can't imagine that the PB12/PC12 wouldn't sound just as good with your speakers.

I also own an SB-1000. Given the size of your space and your primary interest in HT usage, I would definitely go with the PB12-NSD (or PC12) over the SB series.

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post #11 of 23 Old 09-25-2013, 08:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Ok I am now grasping the concept that a big sub is not just about loud volume. The 8x8 meters is including a larger dining area and natural walkways in the space but if the speakers will be on stands, they can be rotated in a pinch to produce background music for the entire space. Instant dance floor.

I might be more concerned with music sound quality for cellos, double bass and low horns, though I would also love to physically feel explosions and other effects watching movies. Does this change the P over S answer?

Finally, how would I determine whether to have a dual sub setup? I imagine I don't since I should get a sub I like and can get a second of the same anytime I want?
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post #12 of 23 Old 09-25-2013, 08:06 PM
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I used to have B&W 601s (previous version of the 685) paired with an Outlaw Audio LFM-1 EX, which is similar in class to the PB12-NSD. Sounded great together. I can't imagine that the PB12/PC12 wouldn't sound just as good with your speakers.

You brought back a good memory cel, I used to run B&W and really enjoyed them coupled with different SVS options. good stuff

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post #13 of 23 Old 09-25-2013, 08:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coolnewbie View Post

Ok I am now grasping the concept that a big sub is not just about loud volume. The 8x8 meters is including a larger dining area and natural walkways in the space but if the speakers will be on stands, they can be rotated in a pinch to produce background music for the entire space. Instant dance floor.

I might be more concerned with music sound quality for cellos, double bass and low horns, though I would also love to physically feel explosions and other effects watching movies. Does this change the P over S answer?

Finally, how would I determine whether to have a dual sub setup? I imagine I don't since I should get a sub I like and can get a second of the same anytime I want?

Dang that’s a hard one! Both would be great options in dual down the road, that was part of my thinking with the + although one would do you justice. Two to smooth things out if needed and of course more headroom. Ah! If it were me I would go with two Pluses over two SB-ULTRAS. Some are going to differ though. I lean more towards HT and know how good the PLUS does with music as well. I have never tried any of SVS’s sealed SW’s although I have and have had other sealed options. If your bent is music, then the two SB-U might be the better choice?

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post #14 of 23 Old 09-25-2013, 09:40 PM
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I thought the pb13 sounded just as good as the sb13

I don't go for the sealed for music ported for HT bs.

Sealed subs are for smaller rooms. Unless you want to use a lot of them.

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post #15 of 23 Old 09-25-2013, 10:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coolnewbie View Post

Ok I am now grasping the concept that a big sub is not just about loud volume. The 8x8 meters is including a larger dining area and natural walkways in the space but if the speakers will be on stands, they can be rotated in a pinch to produce background music for the entire space. Instant dance floor.

I might be more concerned with music sound quality for cellos, double bass and low horns, though I would also love to physically feel explosions and other effects watching movies. Does this change the P over S answer?

Finally, how would I determine whether to have a dual sub setup? I imagine I don't since I should get a sub I like and can get a second of the same anytime I want?

Since you mention dance floor, the advantage of dual subs is that you can, with good placement, create a more even bass response through a larger area of the room. If you like to throw parties, or have a lot of people sitting around watching movies throughout the room, dual subs would be a good plus smile.gif

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post #16 of 23 Old 09-26-2013, 04:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Would you consider getting a stronger amp if you are considering a larger sub (or dual subs)?

I am considering a Denon 1713 with B&W685s in 5.1.
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post #17 of 23 Old 09-26-2013, 07:44 AM
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edit* nevermind!
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post #18 of 23 Old 09-26-2013, 07:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coolnewbie View Post

Would you consider getting a stronger amp if you are considering a larger sub (or dual subs)?

I am considering a Denon 1713 with B&W685s in 5.1.

No that would work fine if that's the receiver you’re leaning towards. The receiver/amp does not power your SW, it only sends a signal to your SW which has it’s own amp to run it. The receiver does power your speakers though and the Denon would be adequate to do so with your B&W’s. I really like Denon myself.

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post #19 of 23 Old 09-26-2013, 07:49 AM
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Is there more than one thread with the same title? Could of sworn I posted in this thread but I do not see my posts lol.

LOL.. hey bass I know what that's like.. did I post in the right thread?

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post #20 of 23 Old 09-26-2013, 07:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coolnewbie View Post

Would you consider getting a stronger amp if you are considering a larger sub (or dual subs)?

I am considering a Denon 1713 with B&W685s in 5.1.

Subs typically have their own power amps.

When you get a more expensive AVR the thing that seems to vary with price in a really audible way is the automated system optimization feature (Audyssey, MCACC, YPAO) If I was going to generalize, these features seem to change the most in how they treat the subwoofer. More money - the tighter the optimization. Cheap, cheap often means that it does pretty much nothing for the sub(s).
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post #21 of 23 Old 09-26-2013, 10:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Do you need more amp for a 5.2 set up with dual subs, or no as well?
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post #22 of 23 Old 09-26-2013, 10:56 AM
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Nope. These subs are a self amplified. In fact, depending on where you set the crossover, your avr will be working less to power your other speakers. A 80hz crossover will take a lot of the load off the avr allowing you to play the whole system louder.

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post #23 of 23 Old 09-26-2013, 11:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Coolnewbie View Post

Do you need more amp for a 5.2 set up with dual subs, or no as well?

The only thing I would ad is that you don’t need a 5.2 receiver to get 5.2 You can use a simple Y to achieve 5.2 off of a 5.1 You can go .3 or .4 for that matter. It still boils down to .1 in a sense though smile.gif

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