Can someone tell me the difference? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 22 Old 09-28-2013, 10:27 PM - Thread Starter
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I am currently am looking at these 2 subwoofers. Polk PSW121  and the Polk PSW10

 

I honestly dont know the difference i cant find what makes what one better. On Newegg they are the same price ill link them

PSW121
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882290286&Tpk=PSW121

 

PSW10

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882290034

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post #2 of 22 Old 09-28-2013, 10:46 PM
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PSW121 is 12" and PSW10 is 10". Subwoofer is all about displacement of air and lots and lots of it. A 12" sub has bigger surface area than a 10er; hence more displacement. Between those two I'd get the biggest and the one that digs the lowest.

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post #3 of 22 Old 09-28-2013, 11:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Digs the lowest? looking at the stats what one would that be?

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post #4 of 22 Old 09-28-2013, 11:19 PM
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The frequency response spec. Neither of these subs will dig super low, but the 12 will obviously have the advantage over the 10 at 30hz vs 35hz.
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post #5 of 22 Old 09-29-2013, 01:56 AM - Thread Starter
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but the 12" sub is on the bottom and the 10" in front. is there a difference

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post #6 of 22 Old 09-29-2013, 02:18 AM
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No difference. Bass is omnidirectional but I have always found down firing subs cause more shake, which is good for movies.

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post #7 of 22 Old 09-29-2013, 03:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by braveheart123 View Post

PSW121 is 12" and PSW10 is 10". Subwoofer is all about displacement of air and lots and lots of it.

So far, so good.
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A 12" sub has bigger surface area than a 10er; hence more displacement.

Not necessarily so. Displacement depends on both diaphragm area and linear cone travel or Xmax, Volume displacement of the cone is the product of the two. There are 12 inchers with 3 mm Xmax, and 10 inchers with more like 12 mm. Guess which one moves more air? ;-)

The development of hgh Xmax drivers is one reason why we now have a lot of alleged full range speakers, towers etc with 6" inch bass drivers that aren't total jokes.

Maximum possible Xmax still scales with frame size, but when comparing drivers the actual numbers are all over the map.

All other things being equal, Xmax and efficiency fight with each other. However, a big strong well-deigned magnet assembly can tip the compromise in favor of Xmax. But, that costs money!

It might be reasonable to presume that a subwoofer in the same product line from the same manufacturer has more bass dynamic range in the model with the larger driver, but if some designer wanted to play games and put a driver with far more Xmax in the speaker with the smaller driver, it could be the one with the better bass.
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post #8 of 22 Old 09-29-2013, 03:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBigSmooth View Post

but the 12" sub is on the bottom and the 10" in front. is there a difference,

There is always some difference with speakers, but the direction the woofer is facing can easily be overcome by other differences. Where you put the speakers can matter more than which way the bass driver is pointing, and of course bass drivers themselves can vary all over the map. So can box size.
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post #9 of 22 Old 09-29-2013, 04:17 AM
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I think it is a safe bet that, in this case, the 12" will outperform the 10". It is cheaper and easier for the manufacturer to move more air with the bigger driver, assuming a ported design in both cases. The larger sub will provide more gross profit.
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post #10 of 22 Old 09-29-2013, 04:29 AM
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If your not committed to the Polk, a suggestion in your price range I would suggest is the Dayton 12” http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=300-635 It has better specs (goes lower with more power) and should/will do a better job for you.

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post #11 of 22 Old 09-29-2013, 08:01 AM
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There are 12 inchers with 3 mm Xmax, and 10 inchers with more like 12 mm. Guess which one moves more air? ;-)

Then yet again there are 12 inchers with 25+mm Xmax........A guy who still is wrapping his head around polks eek.gif in subwoofer arena, he should be best served with plain and simple knowledge so he can get going than diving into t/s parameters, which turn key sub manufacturers do not care to list for obvious reasons.

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post #12 of 22 Old 09-29-2013, 08:02 AM
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It is cheaper and easier for the manufacturer to move more air with the bigger driver, assuming a ported design in both cases.

+1

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post #13 of 22 Old 09-29-2013, 08:08 AM
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Quote:
Then yet again there are 12 inchers with 25+mm Xmax

And even some 12" 40 lb luggers with 28mm Xmax biggrin.gif


http://creativesound.ca/details.php?model=SDX12%20Single

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post #14 of 22 Old 09-29-2013, 08:10 AM
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History is written by those who have hanged heroes ...

The best EQ is no EQ ...

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Dual Dayton RSS390HO-4 Reference 15 Build For HT

Main System: Klipsch RF-82 II, Klipsch RC-62 II, RS-52 II, Onkyo 5010, Rythmik FV15HP, PSB S300
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post #15 of 22 Old 09-29-2013, 05:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Im so lost!!! Im just wanting to know whats better! The 10in Front Facing Sub or the Bottom Facing 12in?

 

Also whats the difference between front and bottom subs

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post #16 of 22 Old 09-29-2013, 07:09 PM
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Go with the 12" it will have more output and dig deeper. Downfiring can help mask harmonics and offer more tactile sensation when placed near field(close to the listening position).
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post #17 of 22 Old 09-29-2013, 07:12 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steve nn View Post

And even some 12" 40 lb luggers with 28mm Xmax biggrin.gif

http://creativesound.ca/details.php?model=SDX12%20Single

And sadly, due to high quality issues, there goes the price. Our not as nice, 8ohm drivers were ~$146.00 with an Xmax of 14mm vs a complete subwoofer system for $130.00.

Agreed, when working with budget minded subwoofers, go with the bigger driver.

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Originally Posted by TheBigSmooth View Post

Im so lost!!! Im just wanting to know whats better! The 10in Front Facing Sub or the Bottom Facing 12in?

The subwoofer with the twelve inch, down firing driver. As suggested by another, checkout the budget minded subwoofers one can get from Parts-Express.

-
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post #18 of 22 Old 09-30-2013, 03:20 AM
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Originally Posted by FMW View Post

I think it is a safe bet that, in this case, the 12" will outperform the 10". It is cheaper and easier for the manufacturer to move more air with the bigger driver, assuming a ported design in both cases. The larger sub will provide more gross profit.

Actually, the cost of a driver goes up fast with the size of the frame. The reason why we have so many small, large Xmax drivers is the cost savings with the same amount of bass.

It is cheaper and easier for the manufacturer to move more air with smaller driver if it can be done.

Ultimately, more air can be moved with the larger woofer, but that would be for SOTA drivers. If we are talking economy speakers, then cost effectiveness rules the day.

Modern SOTA 6.5 inch drivers move as much air as 12 incher SOTA drivers did back in the 1960s.

Some people remember when Electrovoice built a 30" woofer back in the 1960s. It only had 3 mm Xmax. That's a volume displacement of less than 105 cubic inches.

A modern subwoofer driver with a 12" cone and 20 mm Xmax has a volume displacement on the order of 113 cubic inches.

Guess which one is cheaper to build?
Quote:
assuming a ported design in both cases.

Assuming everything else is equal, ported or sealed.
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post #19 of 22 Old 09-30-2013, 03:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by braveheart123 View Post

Quote:
There are 12 inchers with 3 mm Xmax, and 10 inchers with more like 12 mm. Guess which one moves more air? ;-)

Then yet again there are 12 inchers with 25+mm Xmax........A guy who still is wrapping his head around polks eek.gif in subwoofer arena, he should be best served with plain and simple knowledge so he can get going than diving into t/s parameters, which turn key sub manufacturers do not care to list for obvious reasons.

Let's get back on topic. Where are the Xmax numbers for the speakers mentioned by the OP.

What about CEDIA numbers?

I see none.

Without them, or something like them, we are taking it all on faith.
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post #20 of 22 Old 09-30-2013, 03:43 AM
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That's what my point is. There are none. So, let's feed him the info most pertinent with the problem at hand

History is written by those who have hanged heroes ...

The best EQ is no EQ ...

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post #21 of 22 Old 10-05-2013, 01:02 PM - Thread Starter
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I decided on the PSW10 cause the price on the 12" went up by $50 and after plenty of research most people like having the the ability to direct the sound. YOU ALL ARE THE BEST THANK YOU!

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post #22 of 22 Old 10-05-2013, 05:32 PM
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I've never had an issue with either down or front firing subs, I prefer down. I don't agree with the ability to direct the sound by turning the sub every which way, it's about placement within the room you don't want to be able to determine where the bass is coming from.
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