Official PSA Triax Thread - Page 37 - AVS Forum
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post #1081 of 3537 Old 10-26-2013, 12:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Blackmambakila View Post

The JTR 212 is the stronger one, he was talking about his 228s which are 98dbs. Man it would be something to hear in person, def couldn't have neighbors around!
When you get your new house... SOUNDPROOF it, then you don't have to worry about the neighbors. The Triax is going to be the hardest thing to stop the noise from travelling I believe. smile.gif

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post #1082 of 3537 Old 10-26-2013, 12:13 AM
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Originally Posted by ellisr63 View Post

When you get your new house... SOUNDPROOF it, then you don't have to worry about the neighbors. The Triax is going to be the hardest thing to stop the noise from travelling I believe. smile.gif

I think you made out good, you spent way less then me and have a lot more headroom. I'm just going over possibilities sooner then later that way when the time comes I'll have a head start on what's out there and make better choices in a real setup. That's one requirement, I need some decent land so I can be spaced out from any neighbors, but having the room built from scratch should contain a nice setup also. Can't wait but for now I'm just going to keep working hard and saving smile.gif
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post #1083 of 3537 Old 10-26-2013, 06:05 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by Saturn94 View Post

Reminds me of a line I heard in a movie; "...it's big, it's beautiful, and you're gonna love it!"

Looking forward to your posted REW measurements. I'm curious how a single, corner loaded Triax performs. Based on what everybody is posting, if one can do a flat room graph at reference in a single Triax, then a subwoofer at this price is cost effective.
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post #1084 of 3537 Old 10-26-2013, 08:07 AM
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Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

Looking forward to your posted REW measurements. I'm curious how a single, corner loaded Triax performs. Based on what everybody is posting, if one can do a flat room graph at reference in a single Triax, then a subwoofer at this price is cost effective.

Hey thats exactly what im interested in knowing, a single corner loaded Triax. That will be nice to know what kind of measurements would come off that scenario as it may be the most common.
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Dual PSA Triaxes!
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Christmas Surprise! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJcmWTpBcm0
Triax! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rhoKuxirdIg
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post #1085 of 3537 Old 10-26-2013, 08:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Blackmambakila View Post

Crank it up, I'd love to see the results! biggrin.gif

I'm scared.... eek.gif

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Originally Posted by Blackmambakila View Post

Saturn, how's the house holding up? Your having fun without us....... tongue.gif

Unfortunately it's gonna be a busy weekend (plus I always work Saturdays) so I won't get much time to listen. frown.giffrown.giffrown.gif

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Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

Looking forward to your posted REW measurements. I'm curious how a single, corner loaded Triax performs. Based on what everybody is posting, if one can do a flat room graph at reference in a single Triax, then a subwoofer at this price is cost effective.

When I get a chance I need to take some measurements to dial in the crossover, level, and distance settings for HT and music (my processor offers separate speaker configurations and settings for both). I'll certainly post a graph when I get a chance. Right now I have no EQ, but may get a miniDSP unit depending on the results of my measurements.
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post #1086 of 3537 Old 10-26-2013, 08:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Saturn94 View Post

I'm scared.... eek.gif
Unfortunately it's gonna be a busy weekend (plus I always work Saturdays) so I won't get much time to listen. frown.giffrown.giffrown.gif
When I get a chance I need to take some measurements to dial in the crossover, level, and distance settings for HT and music (my processor offers separate speaker configurations and settings for both). I'll certainly post a graph when I get a chance. Right now I have no EQ, but may get a miniDSP unit depending on the results of my measurements.

Just make sure your home owners insurance covers earthquakes and you should be fine smile.gif
Whenever you have free time itll be awesome to hear your feedback, goodluck!
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Klipsch RF-82 II, RC-62 II, RS-62 II
Dual PSA Triaxes!
Xbox one, xbox 360 My Videos! >
Christmas Surprise! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJcmWTpBcm0
Triax! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rhoKuxirdIg
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post #1087 of 3537 Old 10-26-2013, 08:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Blackmambakila View Post

Just make sure your home owners insurance covers earthquakes and you should be fine smile.gif
Whenever you have free time itll be awesome to hear your feedback, goodluck!

Thanks, will do. smile.gif
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post #1088 of 3537 Old 10-26-2013, 09:05 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by Saturn94 View Post

Right now I have no EQ, but may get a miniDSP unit depending on the results of my measurements.

Nothing in your AVR? eek.gif
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post #1089 of 3537 Old 10-26-2013, 09:09 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by Blackmambakila View Post

Hey thats exactly what im interested in knowing, a single corner loaded Triax.

As absurd as it might sound, if one could get a flat graph, using a corner loaded Triax, would make financial sense and have high WAF as one has but a single subwoofer raising the roof.

Due to room smoothing, I may be pushed back to other configurations but in my way of thinking, it does have possibilities.
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post #1090 of 3537 Old 10-26-2013, 09:35 AM
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Originally Posted by ellisr63 View Post

I bet they sound great too... Just not quite as efficient as the Klipsch are since they are 104db. Do they make one that is more efficient?

These are supposed to be the best Klipsch makes... http://images.klipsch.com/KPTJUBILEE535_635042121835280000.pdf

Some people are getting the LaScalas and putting these horns on and they supposedly sound awesome.

I am in no way saying the Klipsch is better... just more efficient than the one you have. Klipsch have a love em or hate them reputation.

Every speaker I've compared, including Klipsch, has not had the stated sensitivity compared to the JTR 212 Noesis, (ha, even the 228's).

The 212's have a rated sensitivity of 101 but I turn the 228's trim down 5 db's to match the 212's.

The Klipsch rf 63's are rated at 99 db's yet the JTR 228's were 3 more db's sensitive when compared head to head and level matched, so the Klipsch are around 8 db's less than the 212's.

The Tekton Pendragons are rated at 99 but were also 3 db's less than the 228's, so also 8 db's less than the 212's

Axiom m60's are rated at 93 db's but are 15 dbs less than the JTR 212's.


Last weekend we had a get together in a local park with a bunch of speakers including the Pendragons and JTR 212's and we had a switch box so we could immediately switch between speakers. It was laughable how much louder the 212's were compared to all the other speakers including the 99 db rated Pendragons.


IMO, either JTR underrated their sensitivity ratings or most everyone else inflates theirs, including Klipsch.



BTW, I'm not saying one speaker is better than another either, I just think it's interesting how that rated sensitivity number can be so off.
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post #1091 of 3537 Old 10-26-2013, 09:43 AM
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Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

Nothing in your AVR? eek.gif

Hehe..... I don't change equipment very often. I usually buy for the long haul. It was over 30 years before I replaced my amps/preamp and over 25 years before I replaced my speakers. I bought my SVS sub in Jan. 2003.

My Anthem AVM20 is from the pre HDMI/room correction era. It does have a single parametric filter for the sub which can be used to tame a single peak. I still love this pre/pro and have no plans to replace it.
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post #1092 of 3537 Old 10-26-2013, 09:43 AM
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Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

Your receiver would be able to easily allow some 212HT's to hit 124dB.
Just go do some reading in the JTR thread if you don't believe me.


A buddy of mine is borrowing my 212's right now and posted a video showing that in his room using 1 watt he can hit 5.5 under reference before clipping the amp - which remember is limited to 1 watt.

This is 5.5 under refernce 11 feet from the speakers.

I plan on borrowing his inuke 3000 amp so I can do this experiment in my room, I want to see how far over reference I can get with my AVR at my main listening position. I know I don't need an external amp, but I want to know exactly when my AVR starts to clip and using his technique I'll be able to determine this.
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post #1093 of 3537 Old 10-26-2013, 09:51 AM
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Here is that video, he is making it look like another classic JTR video posted at the bottom:






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post #1094 of 3537 Old 10-26-2013, 10:01 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by Saturn94 View Post

I still love this pre/pro and have no plans to replace it.

I love my Marantz SR5008. I've had it approximately a year and it's been nothing short of fabulous. Great stuff at a great price. Got no complaints. Double blind studies have shown, my pathetic hearing can't tell a difference between a two hundred dollar AVR and a two thousand dollar separate amplifier. As soon as I'm able, for all the right reasons, I have my sights on a Denon 4520ci. Despite my love for our Marantz SR5008, I have every intention of replacing it as soon as fiscally able.

(the 4520ci comes with Audyssey MultEQ XT32 and nine independent/discrete amplifier channels that are configurable)

Denon 4520ci review.

4520ci review.



The point, in my opinion, other than financial, hanging back with an old technological love.....well, I guess it's a personal call. In the meantime, the 4520ci Sirens are whispering seductively in my ear.......buy me.

"O Brother, Where Art Thou": Sirens

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post #1095 of 3537 Old 10-26-2013, 10:12 AM
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Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

I love my Marantz SR5008. I've had it approximately a year and it's been nothing short of fabulous. Great stuff at a great price. Got no complaints. Double blind studies have shown, my pathetic hearing can't tell a difference between a two hundred dollar AVR and a two thousand dollar separate amplifier. As soon as I'm able, for all the right reasons, I have my sights on a Denon 4520ci. Despite my love for our Marantz SR5008, I have every intention of replacing it as soon as fiscally able.

(the 4520ci comes with Audyssey MultEQ XT32 and nine independent/discrete amplifier channels that are configurable)

Denon 4520ci review.

4520ci review.



The point, in my opinion, other than financial, hanging back with an old technological love.....well, I guess it's a personal call. In the meantime, the 4520ci Sirens are whispering seductively in my ear.......buy me.

"O Brother, Where Art Thou": Sirens

-
Buy one!!
I wish that a person could by a pre/processor for less than a receiver.... I would love to have a 4520 without all the amplification. My reasoning is I can go with as little or as much power as I want and just get a new processor every few years (as new tech is developed), and not have to replace everything. I mean if you have a power amp you like why change it?
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post #1096 of 3537 Old 10-26-2013, 10:22 AM
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Originally Posted by ellisr63 View Post

Buy one!!
I wish that a person could by a pre/processor for less than a receiver.... I would love to have a 4520 without all the amplification. My reasoning is I can go with as little or as much power as I want and just get a new processor every few years (as new tech is developed), and not have to replace everything. I mean if you have a power amp you like why change it?


I agree, its an awesome receiver especially when you can now find it under $2k, with effecient speakers it should do amazing and the Aud Eq system on it has been doing a real good job getting my setup calibrated to my liking. Plenty of power so far and hasnt clipped at all or had any disortion even cranked well above reference
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80 in Sharp Aquos Quattron led 3d tv
Denon AVR-4520CI receiver DBT-3313UDCI blu ray player
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Dual PSA Triaxes!
Xbox one, xbox 360 My Videos! >
Christmas Surprise! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJcmWTpBcm0
Triax! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rhoKuxirdIg
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post #1097 of 3537 Old 10-26-2013, 10:30 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by carp View Post

A buddy of mine is borrowing my 212's right now and posted a video showing that in his room using 1 watt he can hit 5.5 under reference before clipping the amp - which remember is limited to 1 watt.

Just saying, as folks are bragging on these fine examples of what a speaker should be, in fairness it needs to be mentioned the price of one of these beauties; $2,199.00........each.

OTOH, those Klipsch speakers of ours that seem to get no respect, we paid $2k for our pair; Klipsch Epic CF-3. Hardly seems like a fair fight yet they seem to end up in the same ring together and in my opinion, our speakers are much easier on the eyes with a much higher WAF. eek.gif...biggrin.gif




-
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post #1098 of 3537 Old 10-26-2013, 10:39 AM
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Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

Nothing in your AVR? eek.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

I love my Marantz SR5008. I've had it approximately a year and it's been nothing short of fabulous. Great stuff at a great price. Got no complaints. Double blind studies have shown, my pathetic hearing can't tell a difference between a two hundred dollar AVR and a two thousand dollar separate amplifier. As soon as I'm able, for all the right reasons, I have my sights on a Denon 4520ci. Despite my love for our Marantz SR5008, I have every intention of replacing it as soon as fiscally able.

(the 4520ci comes with Audyssey MultEQ XT32 and nine independent/discrete amplifier channels that are configurable)

Denon 4520ci review.

4520ci review.



The point, in my opinion, other than financial, hanging back with an old technological love.....well, I guess it's a personal call. In the meantime, the 4520ci Sirens are whispering seductively in my ear.......buy me.

"O Brother, Where Art Thou": Sirens

-

While AQ is certainly important, one reason I hang onto the AVM20 is it's extremely flexible/configurable to suit my individual needs. Perhaps one day I'll get to the point where it no longer meets my needs, but I'm not there yet. wink.gif
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post #1099 of 3537 Old 10-26-2013, 10:43 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by ellisr63 View Post

I mean if you have a power amp you like why change it?

Agree with the pre/pro and a separate Amp issue. No argument from me. Personally, I like having everything in one box. In a short bit, the 4K standard for televisions will come out at an affordable price. When a 70", 4K television comes down in price to what we consider to be our price point and it's time to replace our current flat screen, we will upgrade to the 4k standard. The point, no matter how much we protest, we can't stop progress.

As consumers and hobbyists, our job is to make sure we have enough money to sacrifice to the upgrade gods.

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post #1100 of 3537 Old 10-26-2013, 10:47 AM
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Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

Just saying, as folks are bragging on these fine examples of what a speaker should be, in fairness it needs to be mentioned the price of one of these beauties; $2,199.00........each.

OTOH, those Klipsch speakers of ours that seem to get no respect, we paid $2k for our pair; Klipsch Epic CF-3. Hardly seems like a fair fight yet they seem to end up in the same ring together and in my opinion, our speakers are much easier on the eyes with a much higher WAF. eek.gif...biggrin.gif




The BMS 4993 compression driver all by itself in the Noesis 212's costs 700 dollars if you were to buy it yourself, that's a huge chunk of the total cost of 2199. Some guys in the DIY forum were going to mimic the 212 Noesis and ended up deciding it would be a waste of time because you wouldn't save all that much money by the time you bought all the parts and assembled it, plus Jeff at JTR is about at good as it gets at building crossovers.



Hey, trust me I never, and I mean EVER thought I would spend that much on speakers. That was until I heard them... and I knew I was in trouble.
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post #1101 of 3537 Old 10-26-2013, 10:48 AM
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Originally Posted by carp View Post

Every speaker I've compared, including Klipsch, has not had the stated sensitivity compared to the JTR 212 Noesis, (ha, even the 228's).

The 212's have a rated sensitivity of 101 but I turn the 228's trim down 5 db's to match the 212's.

The Klipsch rf 63's are rated at 99 db's yet the JTR 228's were 3 more db's sensitive when compared head to head and level matched, so the Klipsch are around 8 db's less than the 212's.

The Tekton Pendragons are rated at 99 but were also 3 db's less than the 228's, so also 8 db's less than the 212's

Axiom m60's are rated at 93 db's but are 15 dbs less than the JTR 212's.


Last weekend we had a get together in a local park with a bunch of speakers including the Pendragons and JTR 212's and we had a switch box so we could immediately switch between speakers. It was laughable how much louder the 212's were compared to all the other speakers including the 99 db rated Pendragons.


IMO, either JTR underrated their sensitivity ratings or most everyone else inflates theirs, including Klipsch.



BTW, I'm not saying one speaker is better than another either, I just think it's interesting how that rated sensitivity number can be so off.




Have you ever compared to the original Klipsch horns with a 105db sensitivity?
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post #1102 of 3537 Old 10-26-2013, 10:52 AM
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

Have you ever compared to the original Klipsch horns with a 105db sensitivity?


No, I haven't. I would love to hear those sometime!! smile.gif

I imagine those are a lot closer to their rated sensitivity, but it would be very interesting to compare their sensitivity to the 212's.
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Perhaps one day I'll get to the point where it no longer meets my needs, but I'm not there yet.wink.gif

When you get there, I'll look forward to your comments. In the meantime, as I posted, it's a personal call.
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post #1104 of 3537 Old 10-26-2013, 10:59 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Hey, trust me I never, and I mean EVER thought I would spend that much on speakers. That was until I heard them... and I knew I was in trouble.

You make a good case not to listen to them........la, la, la, la, la, la, la.......(shooting muffs over my ears, with plugs in my ears).....I can't hear them. tongue.gif I'm still trying to get my wife to get over her offense at my current upgrade path. There's absolutely no room for additional upgrades as once this current upgrade path (subwoofers and AVR) is completed, it's time to focus on the more mundane, new forty/fifty year, fancy pants, roof; exterior paint; A/C; fence, the usual home money pit sort of maintenance items.
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post #1105 of 3537 Old 10-26-2013, 11:21 AM
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No, I haven't. I would love to hear those sometime!! smile.gif

I imagine those are a lot closer to their rated sensitivity, but it would be very interesting to compare their sensitivity to the 212's.

I am just curious if and when the time comes I would be better served by integrating the pair I have into my HT. This being if/when I get a dedicated HT room. Or I could try and sell them to fund some JTR's.
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post #1106 of 3537 Old 10-26-2013, 11:40 AM
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After learning to take notice if the importance of speaker efficiency, im curious to the other specs that the jtrs show and why some other brands dont. The part on their specs that give the db sensitivity and the usable level of dbs and then the max dbs. This seems to be some useful specs to go off of, im not sure if i remembered seeing those full specs on some other brands that ive checked out?
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post #1107 of 3537 Old 10-26-2013, 11:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post

Every speaker I've compared, including Klipsch, has not had the stated sensitivity compared to the JTR 212 Noesis, (ha, even the 228's).

The 212's have a rated sensitivity of 101 but I turn the 228's trim down 5 db's to match the 212's.

The Klipsch rf 63's are rated at 99 db's yet the JTR 228's were 3 more db's sensitive when compared head to head and level matched, so the Klipsch are around 8 db's less than the 212's.

The Tekton Pendragons are rated at 99 but were also 3 db's less than the 228's, so also 8 db's less than the 212's

Axiom m60's are rated at 93 db's but are 15 dbs less than the JTR 212's.


Last weekend we had a get together in a local park with a bunch of speakers including the Pendragons and JTR 212's and we had a switch box so we could immediately switch between speakers. It was laughable how much louder the 212's were compared to all the other speakers including the 99 db rated Pendragons.


IMO, either JTR underrated their sensitivity ratings or most everyone else inflates theirs, including Klipsch.







BTW, I'm not saying one speaker is better than another either, I just think it's interesting how that rated sensitivity number can be so off.



JTR 212s sensitivity is in 4,0 x Pi Steradians (101 dB) while others speakers sensitivity is in 2,0 x Pi Steradians to compare apples to apples should to be the same Pi Steradians. So 212 vs Klipsh is (101+6 = 107 dB) vs 105 dB, difference 2 dB

Frequency +/-3db
60hz-24khz
Sensitivity*
101db (2.0 volts, free air)

Useable Output **
134db (calculated peak 137 – 3db compression)
Recommended Amplification
up to 2000 watts RMS (program)
Impedance
4 ohm
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post #1108 of 3537 Old 10-26-2013, 12:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZivkoF View Post

JTR 212s sensitivity is in 4,0 x Pi Steradians (101 dB) while others speakers sensitivity is in 2,0 x Pi Steradians to compare apples to apples should to be the same Pi Steradians. So 212 vs Klipsh is (101+6 = 107 dB) vs 105 dB, difference 2 dB

Frequency +/-3db
60hz-24khz
Sensitivity*
101db (2.0 volts, free air)

Useable Output **
134db (calculated peak 137 – 3db compression)
Recommended Amplification
up to 2000 watts RMS (program)
Impedance
4 ohm

Interesting, both sound pretty good

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post #1109 of 3537 Old 10-26-2013, 12:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZivkoF View Post

JTR 212s sensitivity is in 4,0 x Pi Steradians (101 dB) while others speakers sensitivity is in 2,0 x Pi Steradians to compare apples to apples should to be the same Pi Steradians. So 212 vs Klipsh is (101+6 = 107 dB) vs 105 dB, difference 2 dB


I had never heard of this before. Interesting.... could explain why the JTR speakers are always higher than all others I've had in my room with the exception of the Elemental Designs Cinema 12 speakers that were rated for 98db's and were indeed 3 db's lower than the Noesis 212's.
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post #1110 of 3537 Old 10-26-2013, 12:37 PM
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More pics...I was so excited to take more pics. My friend who helped took these so I thought I'd share them. BTW, that's not me in the pic. I'm better looking than that...lol wink.gif





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