Official PSA Triax Thread - Page 85 - AVS Forum
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post #2521 of 3438 Old 12-18-2013, 06:48 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I hate it when that happens. tongue.gif

(great! i get to do it again)
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post #2522 of 3438 Old 12-18-2013, 06:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Joshjp View Post

^^

I HATE YOU

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post #2523 of 3438 Old 12-18-2013, 06:58 AM
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Originally Posted by raynist View Post

After you level match the subs in Audyssey and run the first measurement, instead of moving on to measurements 2-8, you can stop there, calculate and then check the levels to see if the sub level is set correctly.

You will need to start over either way to get measurements 2-8, but at least you don't go through the whole process only to find out at the end that it is not calibrated correctly.

Gotcha! Thanks, ill try that tonight!

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post #2524 of 3438 Old 12-18-2013, 09:38 AM
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Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

Not being flip or cute in my following, for your size room, your above reads as if you're needing a third Triax to get you where you want to go.

I've thought about that yeah, or moving the 2nd Triax closer to the listening positions. Currently right now I have them as far away diagonally from each other as they can get within reason as I've heard that is somewhat the golden rule (I know all rooms are different). So if I do move the 2nd Triax I'll have one on the left side of the couch and one on the right side.

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post #2525 of 3438 Old 12-18-2013, 10:12 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by jarretc View Post

I've thought about that yeah, or moving the 2nd Triax closer to the listening positions. Currently right now I have them as far away diagonally from each other as they can get within reason as I've heard that is somewhat the golden rule (I know all rooms are different). So if I do move the 2nd Triax I'll have one on the left side of the couch and one on the right side.

What happens when you have one on the main speaker wall and one one the wall opposite the main speaker wall?

For a room that size, to get where I suspect you're wanting to go, you may be hosed and forced to add the likes of a S2 to compliment the two Triaxs you have.
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post #2526 of 3438 Old 12-18-2013, 11:02 AM
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Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

What happens when you have one on the main speaker wall and one one the wall opposite the main speaker wall?

For a room that size, to get where I suspect you're wanting to go, you may be hosed and forced to add the likes of a S2 to compliment the two Triaxs you have.

Why an S2 and not another triax?

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post #2527 of 3438 Old 12-18-2013, 11:05 AM - Thread Starter
 
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According to figures in the ULF thread, the S2 has more output than a Triax and it's a huge room, so one needs as much help as they can get to fill an 8000^3 room.
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post #2528 of 3438 Old 12-18-2013, 11:06 AM
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In a room that size (if you have a place to put them) I would use dual Orbit Shifters instead since they have the ouput of 2 S2's each above 20hz.
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post #2529 of 3438 Old 12-18-2013, 11:11 AM
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With that size room I'd put 4 Orbit Shifters.. That will be like 2 S2 20 down or 8 S2 20 up..eek.gifwink.gif
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post #2530 of 3438 Old 12-18-2013, 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted by rhed View Post

With that size room I'd put 4 Orbit Shifters.. That will be like 2 S2 20 down or 8 S2 20 up..eek.gifwink.gif


Well sure, but what kind of insane person would by a quad pack of JTR subs? Oh.... wait......


j/k rhed tongue.gifbiggrin.gif
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post #2531 of 3438 Old 12-18-2013, 11:22 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by rhed View Post

With that size room I'd put 4 Orbit Shifters.. That will be like 2 S2 20 down or 8 S2 20 up..eek.gifwink.gif

Eight S2s...eek.gif...I can't fathom that type of sound reproduction. eek.gif
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post #2532 of 3438 Old 12-18-2013, 11:25 AM
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Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

According to figures in the ULF thread, the S2 has more output than a Triax and it's a huge room, so one needs as much help as they can get to fill an 8000^3 room.

Don't take that thread as the bible, unless the subs they list there have been tested by the same person the whole thing is pretty silly.

They took guesstimates to determine the output of the S2 based on a sub with a similar driver (not the same), much bigger box and much more powerful amp.

Neither of those subs has been tested and it is all speculation as to which is more powerful until they are, which unfortunately may be never frown.gif

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post #2533 of 3438 Old 12-18-2013, 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by jarretc View Post

I've thought about that yeah, or moving the 2nd Triax closer to the listening positions. Currently right now I have them as far away diagonally from each other as they can get within reason as I've heard that is somewhat the golden rule (I know all rooms are different). So if I do move the 2nd Triax I'll have one on the left side of the couch and one on the right side.


I think its time for you to go diy...a third Triax is not going to add that much output. You need 4 FTW-21's in vented enclosures tuned around 17hz for that monsterous room.
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post #2534 of 3438 Old 12-18-2013, 12:50 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by raynist View Post

Don't take that thread as the bible, unless the subs they list there have been tested by the same person the whole thing is pretty silly.

I'm very impressed with the ULF thread. I'm not impressed with "String Theory."

We have very little to hang our hats on and the ULF thread is the best thing every for hanging one's subwoofer hat on.
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post #2535 of 3438 Old 12-18-2013, 01:29 PM
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Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

I'm very impressed with the ULF thread. I'm not impressed with "String Theory."

We have very little to hang our hats on and the ULF thread is the best thing every for hanging one's subwoofer hat on.

But you are recommending a sub that hasn't been tested over another sub that hasn't been tested based on some educated guess number.

The truth is we do not know if the S2 is more powerful at this point or not.

For subs that have been tested by Ricci I wholly agree that it is informative/useful and can help make a decision easier.

Really, 3 15's have a bit more surface area than 2 18's. Both have the same amp and same xmax I believe. Not sure of box size.

Even if the numbers are true, the difference at 10hz is 1.7db, I don't think you can even hear that difference.

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post #2536 of 3438 Old 12-18-2013, 02:28 PM - Thread Starter
 
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But you are recommending a sub that hasn't been tested over another sub that hasn't been tested based on some educated guess number.

Yes I am. And I encourage you to say why you think it's a really dumb recommendation and then the consumer has two sides to an issue in which to base their buying decision on.

To be fair, anybody who's willing to blow $3k on a single subwoofer is not going base a buying decision on a single post, by a single individual, on a single forum. It would be unreasonable to think they would.

Personally, we just purchased two subwoofers, based on the ULF thread but admittedly, the subwoofers I purchased had been through Ricci's testing methods. In my opinion, regarding subwoofers, my opinion, the ULF thread is the best thing since sliced bread and individually wrapped four ounce sticks of butter, soft, sitting in the cupboard, waiting to be applied to be thickly applied to freshly toasted bread.

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post #2537 of 3438 Old 12-18-2013, 02:52 PM
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I thought I saw Tom post that the Triax should have around 3db's more output than a Submersive? If he never said that I apologize!!!! For some reason that seems right though...

If that is the case it would have around 3 db's less than the Cap S2 because a Cap S1 and a Submersive are on par with each other.
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post #2538 of 3438 Old 12-18-2013, 02:54 PM
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

I think its time for you to go diy...a third Triax is not going to add that much output. You need 4 FTW-21's in vented enclosures tuned around 17hz for that monsterous room.

Oh yes for sure, if he is open to DIY that is the way to go. A couple of G-Horns (if he has speakers that can cross at 60hz) would be a good solution BUT only the experienced DIY guy should attempt a build like that.

Your FTW 21's is a good idea, but 4 of the Stereo Integrity 24" might be a better idea. A member has owned both and prefers the 24" SI.
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post #2539 of 3438 Old 12-18-2013, 04:40 PM
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Oh yes for sure, if he is open to DIY that is the way to go. A couple of G-Horns (if he has speakers that can cross at 60hz) would be a good solution BUT only the experienced DIY guy should attempt a build like that.

Your FTW 21's is a good idea, but 4 of the Stereo Integrity 24" might be a better idea. A member has owned both and prefers the 24" SI.

Is there an Official G-Horn thread? Id like to read it :-)

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post #2540 of 3438 Old 12-18-2013, 04:46 PM - Thread Starter
 
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...eek.gif

Do you really want to go there?

That's some mighty strong sauce.
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post #2541 of 3438 Old 12-18-2013, 04:47 PM
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Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

Yes I am. And I encourage you to say why you think it's a really dumb recommendation and then the consumer has two sides to an issue in which to base their buying decision on.

To be fair, anybody who's willing to blow $3k on a single subwoofer is not going base a buying decision on a single post, by a single individual, on a single forum. It would be unreasonable to think they would.

Personally, we just purchased two subwoofers, based on the ULF thread but admittedly, the subwoofers I purchased had been through Ricci's testing methods. In my opinion, regarding subwoofers, my opinion, the ULF thread is the best thing since sliced bread and individually wrapped four ounce sticks of butter, soft, sitting in the cupboard, waiting to be applied to be thickly applied to freshly toasted bread.

-

The JTR S2 is not a dumb recommendation at all, by all accounts it is a monster of a sub. Recommending any comparable sub would be fine.

I asked you why you recommended the get the S2 over another Triax because I knew why you were recommending it. I just don't think the reason you are recommending it has any merit.

You put a lot of faith in the ULF Score thread, I see you quoting the numbers all of the time, and there is nothing wrong with it if you are comparing subs that have been tested by Ricci.

If you want to compare a FV15hp to a XV15 or a PB12 plus or PB13 ultra that is a perfect tool for doing so as they have all been tested by the same person

You say the S2 scored higher than the Triax, but the problem is that neither sub was tested, the numbers are speculation. At least the Triax numbers were taken by a sweep posted on PSA's website, but I don't even think that sweep is showing the max CEA-2010 value at 10hz. The S2 numbers were arrived at by taking a driver with similar specs (how similar?), a much larger box and a much more powerful amp (tested by Ricci) and then they added 6db for the other driver. That may be a good guesstimate, but it could also be off a DB or two or more. The Triax in theory has more surface area for the drivers, the same power (box size? don't know) so why would it be less powerful? We will not know until they are both tested.

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post #2542 of 3438 Old 12-18-2013, 05:01 PM - Thread Starter
 
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The JTR S2 is not a dumb recommendation at all, by all accounts it is a monster of a sub. Recommending any comparable sub would be fine.

The comment was tongue in cheek and was not intended as a slight against you challenging my comments. If someone thinks what I post is dumb, I'm comfortable with this point. Just saying. And I'm comfortable with calling myself dumb, ignorant and an incompetent as, depending on the situation, I easily qualify on all three descriptors.

(i'm a qualified incompetent which makes me a competent, incompetent)

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I just don't think the reason you are recommending it has any merit.

And I have no trouble with this opinion and based on the rational I posted, I believe it does have merit.

Quote:
You put a lot of faith in the ULF Score thread, I see you quoting the numbers all of the time, and there is nothing wrong with it if you are comparing subs that have been tested by Ricci.

In a positive way, I comment, you're welcome to do what you see fit and I am welcome to do the same and you're welcome to challenge me on anything I post and I'm welcome to explain why I post what I post and if someone doesn't like what I have to post, they're welcome to share their displeasure.

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You say the S2 scored higher than the Triax, but the problem is that neither sub was tested, the numbers are speculation.

Yep. You're correct and I'm comfortable with this point. Just a thought, based on the fact that neither sub has independent testing data that consumers can, at their pleasure, readily review, nobody really knows anything. Maybe nobody should be purchasing anything that hasn't been tested. When one thinks about it, making independent testing a litmus test, sure leaves one with fewer choices.

(when in doubt, we always have assumptions and conjecture)

In my opinion, for those in the market for performance based subwoofers, the ULF thread is a God send. And based on the amount of effort that's been put into it's creation, not to mention the continual updating that takes place, also in my opinion, it's the most valid tool forum members have to compare tested and untested subwoofers in varying environments. The point, unless one can show the information to be terribly flawed, I'm not going throw this tool away or stop recommending products based on the information found on the first two pages of the ULF thread, simply because doing so, makes another happy.

(i'm not going argue your points as in my opinion, there's no point to argue)

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post #2543 of 3438 Old 12-18-2013, 05:27 PM
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Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

The comment was tongue in cheek and was not intended as a slight against you challenging my comments. If someone thinks what I post is dumb, I'm comfortable with this point. Just saying. And I'm comfortable with calling myself dumb, ignorant and an incompetent as, depending on the situation, I easily qualify on all three descriptors.

(i'm a qualified incompetent which makes me a competent, incompetent)
And I have no trouble with this opinion and based on the rational I posted, I believe it does have merit.
In a positive way, I comment, you're welcome to do what you see fit and I am welcome to do the same and you're welcome to challenge me on anything I post and I'm welcome to explain why I post what I post and if someone doesn't like what I have to post, they're welcome to share their displeasure.

Yep. You're correct and I'm comfortable with this point. Just a thought, based on the fact that neither sub has independent testing data that consumers can, at their pleasure, readily review, nobody really knows anything. Maybe nobody should be purchasing anything that hasn't been tested. When one thinks about it, making independent testing a litmus test, sure leaves one with fewer choices.

(when in doubt, we always have assumptions and conjecture)

In my opinion, for those in the market for performance based subwoofers, the ULF thread is a God send. And based on the amount of effort that's been put into it's creation, not to mention the continual updating that takes place, also in my opinion, it's the most valid tool forum members have to compare tested and untested subwoofers in varying environments. The point, unless one can show the information to be terribly flawed, I'm not going throw this tool away or stop recommending products based on the information found on the first two pages of the ULF thread, simply because doing so, makes another happy.

(i'm not going argue your points as in my opinion, there's no point to argue)

-

No problem, spirited debate is good!

On another note, has anyone had problems with this site over the last few days? My mac browser has crashed on this site 10 times tonight - it hasn't crashed once in 4 years.

I am also having problems accessing it on my iPhone and iPad too!

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post #2544 of 3438 Old 12-18-2013, 05:28 PM
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Personally, I think the ULF thread has limited value. It is a very cool academic thread by hobbyists with lots of value for a hobbyists. (Probably some pro's on there too)

I think data - bass is much more valuable for determining what sub would meet buyers needs.

ULF focuses on just that .... ULF. My mains are crossed at 80hz so 20-80 is very important too.

If a person is a music fan then 40hz and up to around 100hz or so is important.
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post #2545 of 3438 Old 12-18-2013, 05:37 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I think data - bass is much more valuable for determining what sub would meet buyers needs

And what does a forum member do if the subs they're considering, aren't on Data-Bass? Based on your above, my take away is, some here think only tested subs on Data-Bass are legitimate contenders of consideration. In my opinion, that's mighty narrow minded for such an educated crowd.

Does anybody have any quarrel with the information found on the ULF thread? Not the concept of the thread but the actual posted information and if so, why and have they notified the thread starter (dominguez1) about their displeasure?

(Just saying, this is all off topic and should be carried on in the ULF thread)

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post #2546 of 3438 Old 12-18-2013, 05:44 PM
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Based on your above, my take away is, some here think only tested subs on Data-Bass are legitimate contenders of consideration. In my opinion, that's mighty narrow minded for such an educated crowd

I reject your conclusion wink.gif

There are a lot if fantastic subs not tested. Personally I looked at numbers on data-bass and then found comparison reviews for subs not on data-bass with subs that were. In the end I was torn between the XV15 and FV15HP. I chose the best I could afford (i.e. not be in the doghouse with the boss).

I am not knowledgeable enough to comment on the veracity of the data in the ULF thread. On the surface it all looks legit.
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post #2547 of 3438 Old 12-18-2013, 05:46 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I am not knowledgeable enough to comment on the veracity of the data in the ULF thread. On the surface it all looks legit.

And dominguez1 was kind enough to include the Triax.

(nor am I knowledgeable on anything)

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post #2548 of 3438 Old 12-18-2013, 06:03 PM
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No problem, spirited debate is good!

On another note, has anyone had problems with this site over the last few days? My mac browser has crashed on this site 10 times tonight - it hasn't crashed once in 4 years.

I am also having problems accessing it on my iPhone and iPad too!

Seems to be ok on my iPad Mini (original). As a matter of fact, the past month or so I was having a problem when I clicked on an image it would take me to the first image in the entire thread. Now that problem seems to be fixed as it takes me to the image I clicked on. smile.gif

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post #2549 of 3438 Old 12-18-2013, 06:26 PM
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I occasionally get the "we are updating the site page"

& Beeman, don't sell yourself short. You have proven yourself to be quite the poet with a number of your posts
Ozzie Isaac is offline  
post #2550 of 3438 Old 12-18-2013, 06:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raynist View Post

No problem, spirited debate is good!

On another note, has anyone had problems with this site over the last few days? My mac browser has crashed on this site 10 times tonight - it hasn't crashed once in 4 years.

I am also having problems accessing it on my iPhone and iPad too!
It is working fine on my iPhone that I mainly use to visit this forum. It is also working fine on my PC with IE9.
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