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post #181 of 242 Old 05-04-2015, 06:24 PM
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Originally Posted by lovinthehd View Post
why couldn't a vibrating sub cabinet cause such rattles via shared surfaces, i.e. via the floor/walls/furniture?
Imagine a subwoofer and a lighted candle placed on a solid concrete floor. When the subwoofer operates, there is no way the concrete floor is going to vibrate. The vibration force will not be transferred to the candle. However, a strong bass wave can cause the candle to flame out, or even topple the candle.
You can add lots of vibration absorbers between the subwoofer and the floor, however, there is no way you can prevent the flame out.

If you have flimsy floor/wall/room construction, that's a totally different story. Fix the house before fixing the sound.
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post #182 of 242 Old 05-04-2015, 06:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post
Anything that can be heard can be measured, and anything that can't be measured can't be heard. Rattles are caused by low frequency long wavelengths sourced by the driver cone and, in the case of a vented enclosure, the port. What the sub sits on doesn't affect production of those waves. If it did it would affect everything, including what you hear. No one is immune to cognitive bias, but measuring tools are.

pmd918, you think you hear a decrease in the rattles because you want there to be, is what Bill is saying. You can't have actually heard a decrease because the transmission of vibration out of your sub cabs, into your floor, and then transmitted throughout your room causing objects to rattle has been proven by measurement to be insufficient to cause such an occurrence. So stop imagining things, and get back to measuring them. And don't use music as a signal---it's too distracting. Use test tones; they're more quantifiable.
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post #183 of 242 Old 05-04-2015, 06:37 PM
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Originally Posted by BDP24 View Post
pmd918, you think you hear a decrease in the rattles because you want there to be, is what Bill is saying. You can't have actually heard a decrease because the transmission of vibration out of your sub cabs, into your floor, and then transmitted throughout your room causing objects to rattle has been proven by measurement to be insufficient to cause such an occurrence. So stop imagining things, and get back to measuring them. And don't use music as a signal---it's too distracting. Use test tones; they're more quantifiable.
All I can say is . You imagined the vibration/rattle went away. lol
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post #184 of 242 Old 05-04-2015, 06:57 PM
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All I can say is . You imagined the vibration/rattle went away. lol
Why, I'll bet there weren't any rattles to begin with. pmd918 imagined them so that he could imagine they went away when he put his subs on isolators. He needed them to work, 'cause he had just spent the money to buy them. You know how gullible audiophiles are---just the kind of consumer the purveyors of snake oil love.
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post #185 of 242 Old 05-04-2015, 07:16 PM
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Originally Posted by BDP24 View Post
pmd918, you think you hear a decrease in the rattles because you want there to be, is what Bill is saying. You can't have actually heard a decrease because the transmission of vibration out of your sub cabs, into your floor, and then transmitted throughout your room causing objects to rattle has been proven by measurement to be insufficient to cause such an occurrence. So stop imagining things, and get back to measuring them. And don't use music as a signal---it's too distracting. Use test tones; they're more quantifiable.
LOL. I know, the boogyman did it.
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post #186 of 242 Old 05-04-2015, 07:21 PM
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Originally Posted by lovinthehd View Post
@Bill Fitzmaurice , why couldn't a vibrating sub cabinet cause such rattles via shared surfaces, i.e. via the floor/walls/furniture?
It could. The word that describes a sub cabinet that vibrates at low frequencies is: Defective. A well designed and constructed sub simply does not do that. To the extent that panels of a well made sub will vibrate it's in the midrange, 500Hz or higher, far higher in frequency than where any vibration would be transferred to the floor. A very well designed and built sub doesn't vibrate at all. You can play at full tilt and a glass of water atop it won't move, and you won't even see a ripple in the liquid.
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post #187 of 242 Old 05-05-2015, 07:53 AM
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William went deer hunting with his friend Thomas. They came upon a buck, and William took aim. His first shot missed the buck by a foot to the left. William adjusted, took aim for a second time, and missed the buck by a foot to the right. At this point, the buck ran away.


"Too bad," Thomas said to William, "you had that buck right in your sights. Oh well, better luck next time."
"What do you mean?" William replied. "According to the averages of my measurements, I got him!"
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post #188 of 242 Old 05-05-2015, 08:40 AM
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So for the folks who might be reading this thread - folks who are actually looking for real advice and want to know whether a damping device placed under their subwoofers or speakers is worth the price tag - I just want to address a couple of things.


First, there are a few people who, for whatever reason, have made it something of a mission to prevent everyone from using damping devices. I've no idea what the motivation for that attitude might be, but I won't be arguing directly with any such people. Their minds are set in stone, and there's just no point in spending the energy in engaging them.


But this all boils down to whether or not we can trust our own observations. And I get where some of the naysaying about damping comes from; we have things like cables and speaker wire and power conditioners. For ages and ages, there have been people who swear up and down that they make audible differences, and people who swear up and down that they don't. Now, the truth in those cases is that they don't, unless there is some sort of design or usage flaw that is altering the signal. But the REAL issue at hand is that there's some pretty simple advice that anyone can follow, which is to listen for yourself and make the comparison to draw your own conclusions.


Now, the problem with saying, "if you're really wondering whether speaker wire makes an audible difference, just go compare and listen for yourself" is that we really are pretty bad at honestly making those sorts of comparisons. When we know that a change has been made, we tend to hear a change if we want to - or even if we don't want to.


But knowing that, it's still a pretty simple experiment for you to simply compare the setups "blind" so that you don't know which is which, or whether any change has even been made at all. In one sense, any genuinely audible difference ought to be apparent without you knowing which setup is which. And in another sense, if this is a matter of deciding whether a product is worth its price tag, you should definitely be able to hear a difference in a "blind" comparison - especially when some of those price tags are ridiculously high!


So the damping naysayers are taking that type of comparison - where we very often cannot actually detect any difference in a "blind" comparison, and yet lots of people will swear up and down that they hear a difference when the comparison is "sighted" and they know which is which - and they're applying that to this topic of damping devices. Understandable.


But there's a big and important difference here.


Sometimes, observable differences are really obvious. Whether you're "sighted" or "blind" in the comparison, the differences are not subtle at all.


But let's say they ARE subtle. We can still do a "blind" comparison. And when running that experiment carries a cost of zero dollars, I think it's pretty reasonable to say, "this is a good candidate for listening and comparing for yourself and drawing your own conclusions."


Listening and comparing for yourself and drawing your own conclusions might easily lead you astray when it's speaker wire or interconnects or a power conditioner under question. If all you do is listen to one, then listen to another, and you know which is which - it's not a "blind" comparison - then you might easily fool yourself into thinking you heard something that you actually didn't. And when you have to spend hundreds or thousands of dollars to get that wire or power conditioner into your house so that you can test it with your won equipment, that just throws a whole new wrinkle into the proceedings.


But listening and comparing for yourself and drawing your own conclusions when it comes to damping is not the same situation. Could you still fool yourself into thinking you hear a difference when you actually do not? Sure. But you can mitigate that to a very large extent by doing the comparison "blind". Close your eyes and have a friend play bass sweeps with the subwoofer either in direct contact with the floor, or with the subwoofer atop a decoupling device. And since the decoupling device can be a folded up blanket, this experiment carries almost no monetary cost to it what-so-ever. You don't have to purchase any commercially sold damping device to hear whether damping under your subwoofer or speakers will make an audible difference. The device doesn't matter. Any sort of cushion will do!


So what might the results be? It depends. If you've got a subwoofer with opposing drivers that cancel out almost all physical vibration, you might not hear any difference at all in your blind comparison. Congratulations. You just saved yourself some money by using a blanket and a friend instead


If your floor is already covered in carpet with a nice, thick carpet pad underneath, your subwoofer is already damped in its connection to the floor. And you might not hear any difference at all. Congratulations. Once again, no need to buy anything. Your folded up blanket, closed eyes, and helpful friend just saved you $50.


Now maybe your subwoofer came with some "cone" or "spike"-type feet. And even on a carpeted floor, all of that downward force is now being "focused" into just four tiny "feet". Same pounds, many fewer square inches. Pounds per square inch - that's all "feet" are about. So now you listen "blind", and maybe you think you hear a tiny difference, but you're not really sure. OK. Up to you now. If you're really not sure, it probably ain't worth $50. Again, your blanket and helpful friend just saved you some money.


But then we come to another common scenario. You listen to the bass sweep the first time, and your window clearly rattles, or you hear a buzz somewhere, or you actually feel a vibration in your chair. Then the sweep plays a second time, and all of those buzzes and rattles go away, or they're really obviously reduced. "What the heck?" you ask yourself. So you have your friend run the sweeps again. Sometimes, the buzzes and rattles are really obvious, other times, they're almost completely gone. You keep track, and so does your friend. And after you've run a whole bunch of sweeps, you compare, and you discover that 100% of the time, you heard the buzzes and rattles when the subwoofer was just sitting directly on the floor, and you did not hear or feel them when the subwoofer was on top of the blanket.


Congratulations. You just confirmed that using a damping device - in your particular situation - will be worth while. Does it need to cost $50? Nope. Any cushion will do. But if $50 seems reasonable to you, at least it will get the job done.


Now, should you ignore all of that and just be told, "no matter what, you cannot trust your own senses. No matter how obvious the difference might seem, some guys measurements say they don't exist!" Well, that's just silly. When there are obvious differences, there are obvious differences! Things rattle and buzz in one scenario, they don't in another. It's consistent 100% of the time. And I can easily observe it "blind" without knowing which was which. At that point, if the measurements don't correlate, then there's an error in the measurements, not in the observation. That's part of the scientific process, too. Observation - with human senses - does still count for something. We don't need to get ridiculous about it.


But all of that, ALL of that, still might not be the best reason to try a damping experiment. This time, go and sit in the room next door to where the subwoofer is located, or in the room above or below. Get your helpful friend to play bass sweeps while you are in one of these adjacent rooms. Observe. Keep track of whether you really hear the bass clearly "coming through the walls" or if it sounds much more muffled, or even silent. Have your friend keep track, too. Then compare.


If 100% of the time, the bass easily "came through the walls" when the subwoofer was in direct contact with the floor, and 100% of the time, the bass sounded way more muffled, or even silent, when the subwoofer was on top of the folded up blanket, then congratulations, you just found a way to not bother your neighbors so much. That could easily be worth $50 - or at least a couple of dollars to find some sort of cushion And if you don't hear any difference, or the difference is really, really small and not even worth while, then now you know that, too.


So what I'm saying is, I really don't care whether you believe me. But don't just blindly follow this silly "damping doesn't work at all, ever" naysaying. Like I said in my first post in this thread, it's extremely easy to understand how putting a cushion of some sort under a vibrating object can reduce buzzes and rattles and prevent that sound "leaking through the walls or floor" into other rooms or neighboring apartments. These claims that speakers and subs don't vibrate in a way that can transmit energy into the surrounding structure - well, that's just flat out not true. I mean, heck, put your hand on your subwoofer while it's playing - you can feel the darn thing shaking! Although I guess that's human perception, too - haha.


But anyways, it honestly doesn't matter whether you agree that subwoofers and speakers vibrate when they play or whether you believe the crazy people. Believe me, don't believe me, totally doesn't matter. This is a case where you CAN believe yourself. Frankly, when the difference is super obvious - like things rattling vs. not rattling, or hearing bass coming through the wall vs. not hearing it come through the wall - I really, really don't think it's even necessary to compare "blind". But do it "blind" anyway! Take that variable out of the equation.


The experiment is easy and free. The results will either be clearly obvious or not. If you don't hear any difference - either in your own room or in any adjacent room - then don't bother with a damping device! Boom. Easy. Done. But if you DO hear a really obvious difference, then why the heck would you drive yourself crazy questioning whether you REALLY heard a difference or not. Observation counts. And we don't have to get so silly about this stuff. Listen to your two different cables. Do you honestly hear an obvious difference? I mean really. If the only things you can claim are super subtle, maybe you ought to question that. But rattle vs. no rattle? Bass "bleeding" through the walls vs. not? We're not talking subtle here. So yeah, you can trust your own damn ears with something like that. Let's not be so ridiculous.


- Rob H.
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post #189 of 242 Old 05-05-2015, 09:33 AM
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@FirstReflect that was a bit long, but well stated.

All that I have to say is that at one point in our history the prevailing theories were that the Earth was the center of the universe and the world was flat. Turned out that their assumptions were incorrect and the basis of their theories was incomplete.

So for the naysayers, please consider that.

And for Bill, since you decided to insult me by implying that I couldn't hear, I'll throw one back at you. If you were Christopher Columbus, America would never have been discovered. Your ships would have been perpetually in dry dock because the world is flat.

As a research engineer I have learned the hard way that sometimes you just have to bite the bullet and do the experiment. Sometimes the results are surprising and don't agree with what theoretical arguments predict.
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post #190 of 242 Old 05-05-2015, 09:56 AM
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@FirstReflect that was a bit long, but well stated.

All that I have to say is that at one point in our history the prevailing theories were that the Earth was the center of the universe and the world was flat. Turned out that their assumptions were incorrect and the basis of their theories was incomplete.

So for the naysayers, please consider that.

And for Bill, since you decided to insult me by implying that I couldn't hear, I'll throw one back at you. If you were Christopher Columbus, America would never have been discovered. Your ships would have been perpetually in dry dock because the world is flat.

As a research engineer I have learned the hard way that sometimes you just have to bite the bullet and do the experiment. Sometimes the results are surprising and don't agree with what theoretical arguments predict.
The only problem I see with your analogy is that it would be more accurate to say that Bill is Christopher Columbus, and you are the one who believes the world is flat.
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post #191 of 242 Old 05-05-2015, 10:06 AM
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The only problem I see with your analogy is that it would be more accurate to say that Bill is Christopher Columbus, and you are the one who believes the world is flat.
I'm not the one sitting back relying on incomplete theoretical arguments (believing the world is flat), I'm the one who sailed my ship, tested the SVS Isolation feet, and observed fewer rattles in my room (proved the world isn't flat).
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post #192 of 242 Old 05-05-2015, 10:10 AM
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I'm not the one sitting back relying on incomplete theoretical arguments (believing the world is flat), I'm the one who sailed my ship, tested the SVS Isolation feet, and observed fewer rattles in my room (proved the world isn't flat).
I see. I know that these would not help in my situation....the only rattle I get is on extremely high level LFE....my front door rattles unless I push on it with about 50 lbs of force lol. Although I have had to "soundproof" a number of items around the room with felt tabs. I currently have felt tabs as feet on my subs, the kind you buy at Lowe's to place under furniture. They seem to do the job and keep my subs as low as possible.
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post #193 of 242 Old 05-05-2015, 10:29 AM
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I bought 'em, I'll admit it. They seem to work, and even if they don't who cares? I spend a grand on a sub and then whine about spending $50 on an "accessory" for said sub? No.
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post #194 of 242 Old 05-05-2015, 10:40 AM
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If you are on a website called Audio Video SCIENCE, you had better be prepared to defend your assertion. "Seem to work" is just BS. It is the responsibility of the one staking the claim to support that claim. These feet and isolation mats have nothing to support their claimed benefits. Anecdotes are just a waste of keystrokes.
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post #195 of 242 Old 05-05-2015, 11:00 AM
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If you are on a website called Audio Video SCIENCE, you had better be prepared to defend your assertion. "Seem to work" is just BS. It is the responsibility of the one staking the claim to support that claim. These feet and isolation mats have nothing to support their claimed benefits. Anecdotes are just a waste of keystrokes.
I'm not going to defend rattmobbins poor choice of words.

But let me be clear. I did a controlled test. Ran test sweeps with my subs before installing the feet, and ran the same test sweeps after installing the feet. Nothing else changed. Sweeps and SPL were identical. Did absolutely nothing else to alter the room.

Result: far fewer objects in the room rattling after the feet were installed.

Nothing anecdotal about that observation/result. And it was unambiguous. It was obvious to everyone in the room (me, my wife and kids). So to say that "These feet and isolation mats have nothing to support their claimed benefits" is false. Stop saying it.

If you think that doesn't support the claimed benefits, I might as well be talking to the wall. For those who are more open minded, give them a try. SVS offers a money back guarantee, you have nothing to lose.

To be honest, most of the time I would let all of this go. I really couldn't care less whether anyone uses these or not. But I'm starting to take this personally. Who are you (and I mean the collective "you") to tell me that I imagined things. And furthermore, it baffles me why it's easier to believe people who come in here with a bunch of theoretical mumbo jumbo as opposed to those who have actually used the things!

I'm done with this thread - either believe me or don't.
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post #196 of 242 Old 05-05-2015, 11:00 AM
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If the SVS Isolation Feet work anything like the SubDude isolation pad I heard a substantial difference in my neighbors downstairs apartment as did they when I took a day to test out the difference.

Without the subwoofer isolation pad I was vibrating their pictures hung on wall and ceiling light fixture.
When I used the isolation pad I stopped the vibrating and shaking their wall pictures and ceiling light fixture through all volume range.

Yes you could still hear the bass from my apartment but at least I wasn't shaking the things on their walls or light fixtures. Which made them very happy.

The results I experienced are on par of those that reviewed the SVS SoundPath Subwoofer Isolation feet.
http://audiophilereview.com/subwoofe...on-system.html
http://www.pooraudiophile.com/2014/0...works-svs.html
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post #197 of 242 Old 05-05-2015, 11:26 AM
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I'm not the one sitting back relying on incomplete theoretical arguments (believing the world is flat), I'm the one who sailed my ship, tested the SVS Isolation feet, and observed fewer rattles in my room (proved the world isn't flat).
Ahoy there I just bought 2 boxes for my Ultras, Only wanted them as they look good on the SB13 and they'll make lifting it easier as it sinks into the thick carpet and the rubber feet grip so moving it is a nightmare.

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If you are on a website called Audio Video SCIENCE, you had better be prepared to defend your assertion.
That's the problem with this forum, and although it was probably the intention from the start, now this forum has to cater for all (this is why there's multiple sections for non AV related discussions) You will probably find that out of the 1.2 million members here about 1 or 2% are into the AV science and a very small percentage of those actually have some form of qualification in the field. With video I can understand the defense as it has standards that can be met. With audio it's all too subjective, with the exception of level matching and possibly a target frequency response there's no argument to say which is more accurate to an individual as there's no standard to start with. If you calibrate your TV to Rec. 709 standards and are within 2 Delta-E then you could quite safely say that that's how it's meant to look, you can't really say the same for audio though..

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post #198 of 242 Old 05-05-2015, 12:14 PM
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Yeah, see, the part that is weird is when the naysayers keep saying, "look at the numbers" or "look at the LACK of numbers", but then they don't want anyone else to simply try folding up a blanket and putting it under their subwoofer to try it for themselves. Or if someone DOES fold up a blanket (or uses a SubDude or Isolation Feet or whatever), and they come here and say that they noticed a very obvious, non-subtle difference, then they go back to saying, "look at the numbers" or "look at the lack of numbers".


It's, like, dudes, rattle vs. no rattle; very obvious bass bleeding through the walls vs. substantially more muffled bass. What the heck "numbers" do you need? I've got some numbers for you: 1 rattling window vs. 0 rattling windows. Do they need to be in the form of a pie chart?


Honestly, like I said, there's only a couple of people steadfastly hammering on this "damping doesn't work" statement. And I couldn't care less if anyone who hasn't already set their mind in stone believes me or not. But what DOES bother me is the idea that someone will come here in earnest, ask about damping under their subwoofer or speakers, only see these "damping doesn't work" naysayers, and then never even give it a try.


And never even giving it a try seems to be the goal of the naysayers, which is just weird to me. Wanna give esoteric speaker wires a try? Go right ahead! In MY experience, unless they are attenuating the signal is some way due to bad design (or just plain being too skinny), speaker wires don't make any audible difference. But go ahead and try for yourself! If you hear only a super subtle difference, I'd say to question that and try listening blind before making a final decision. But if you hear something rather obvious, cool! I'll have to give that a try myself.


So that's all I want from having posted in this thread. I just don't want the people who are asking in earnest to give up without trying - ESPECIALLY because the experiment is free, unlike a lot of the esoteric speaker wires and such.


I've had plenty of situations where putting a damping device under my subwoofer didn't make any audible difference. But I've also had plenty of situations where it made an obvious difference (rattle vs. no rattle. Not much to question in that). And in the situations where it made an obvious difference, I really did not have any reason to question why. I had a subwoofer that was clearly shaking - I could put my hand on it and feel it shaking when it played. That sub was in direct contact with a floor that only had a thin rug over it. And as a result, the physical shaking of the sub travelled through the structure of my house well enough that the window shook. Really don't see what's so confusing or impossible to believe about that.


Anywho, that's really all there is to it. I, too, am now done with this thread. But hopefully anyone who is asking about damping devices in earnest can see for themselves which side makes sense. You've got one group saying, "it doesn't work, and don't you dare try it for yourself! Because if you try it for yourself and it works, you're wrong!", and a second group saying, "try it for yourself. It's free. It's obvious if it does anything or not. If it works for you, great. If it doesn't, cool, you saved yourself some money."


Kinda don't see how to really argue with that...


- Rob H.
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post #199 of 242 Old 05-05-2015, 12:58 PM
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With audio it's all too subjective, with the exception of level matching and possibly a target frequency response there's no argument to say which is more accurate to an individual as there's no standard to start with. If you calibrate your TV to Rec. 709 standards and are within 2 Delta-E then you could quite safely say that that's how it's meant to look, you can't really say the same for audio though..
I don't agree at all. There are a load of ways to measure accuracy in a loudspeaker, and audio science is very well developed. There is a subject element of audio, as there is with video, but that has nothing to do with accuracy. Accurate sound playback can be measured.
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post #200 of 242 Old 05-05-2015, 01:41 PM
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I actually have these isolation feet. I bought a used PB12-NSD that had them already installed. My previous PB12 created a wall rattle/vibration with the wall directly behind the sub. When I sat the sub on my homemade riser, rattle stopped. Fast forward to the current PB12 I have, feet installed, still no wall rattle/vibration. I didn't imagine the rattle was stopped, nor is my PB12 defective. Did it stop all the rattles in the room? Absolutely not. However, it did actually do something positive in my room with wood sub-floor.

I've previously stated I don't really think these isolation feet are worth $50, but it wouldn't hurt anybody to try them if they feel so inclined. I do also like that the feet lift the sub up off the floor. Of the 29 reviews of these on Amazon, 26 are 5 star. The single 1 star was from somebody who bought them not knowing they wouldn't fit their sub. If these were nothing more than a gimmick, I would think the vast majority of people WHO HAVE tested these out would be posting 1 star reviews. I guess nearly all people just have vivid imaginations.
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post #201 of 242 Old 05-05-2015, 01:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post
I don't agree at all. There are a load of ways to measure accuracy in a loudspeaker, and audio science is very well developed. There is a subject element of audio, as there is with video, but that has nothing to do with accuracy. Accurate sound playback can be measured.
I'm wasn't saying there's no science in audio I was saying there's no audio standard and I believe audio is more subjective because of this. I agree with your comments regarding accurate sound totally. But I was mainly implying that people keeping enforcing the SCIENCE element of this forum in discussions but fail to realize that for this forum to become as mainstream as it has, then the 'average Joe's' are taking the majority and are here for the hobby, not the science. Although I am struggling to realize just how much science is required on whether you can hear your furniture rattle or not, and other than an unedited video showing the rattle before and after fitting isolation pads, I can't see how one could provide any unquestionable data..

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post #202 of 242 Old 05-05-2015, 02:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FirstReflect View Post
Yeah, see, the part that is weird is when the naysayers keep saying, "look at the numbers" or "look at the LACK of numbers", but then they don't want anyone else to simply try folding up a blanket and putting it under their subwoofer to try it for themselves. Or if someone DOES fold up a blanket (or uses a SubDude or Isolation Feet or whatever), and they come here and say that they noticed a very obvious, non-subtle difference, then they go back to saying, "look at the numbers" or "look at the lack of numbers".


It's, like, dudes, rattle vs. no rattle; very obvious bass bleeding through the walls vs. substantially more muffled bass. What the heck "numbers" do you need? I've got some numbers for you: 1 rattling window vs. 0 rattling windows. Do they need to be in the form of a pie chart?


Honestly, like I said, there's only a couple of people steadfastly hammering on this "damping doesn't work" statement. And I couldn't care less if anyone who hasn't already set their mind in stone believes me or not. But what DOES bother me is the idea that someone will come here in earnest, ask about damping under their subwoofer or speakers, only see these "damping doesn't work" naysayers, and then never even give it a try.


And never even giving it a try seems to be the goal of the naysayers, which is just weird to me. Wanna give esoteric speaker wires a try? Go right ahead! In MY experience, unless they are attenuating the signal is some way due to bad design (or just plain being too skinny), speaker wires don't make any audible difference. But go ahead and try for yourself! If you hear only a super subtle difference, I'd say to question that and try listening blind before making a final decision. But if you hear something rather obvious, cool! I'll have to give that a try myself.


So that's all I want from having posted in this thread. I just don't want the people who are asking in earnest to give up without trying - ESPECIALLY because the experiment is free, unlike a lot of the esoteric speaker wires and such.


I've had plenty of situations where putting a damping device under my subwoofer didn't make any audible difference. But I've also had plenty of situations where it made an obvious difference (rattle vs. no rattle. Not much to question in that). And in the situations where it made an obvious difference, I really did not have any reason to question why. I had a subwoofer that was clearly shaking - I could put my hand on it and feel it shaking when it played. That sub was in direct contact with a floor that only had a thin rug over it. And as a result, the physical shaking of the sub travelled through the structure of my house well enough that the window shook. Really don't see what's so confusing or impossible to believe about that.


Anywho, that's really all there is to it. I, too, am now done with this thread. But hopefully anyone who is asking about damping devices in earnest can see for themselves which side makes sense. You've got one group saying, "it doesn't work, and don't you dare try it for yourself! Because if you try it for yourself and it works, you're wrong!", and a second group saying, "try it for yourself. It's free. It's obvious if it does anything or not. If it works for you, great. If it doesn't, cool, you saved yourself some money."


Kinda don't see how to really argue with that...


- Rob H.
There is nothing to argue about. It's called a materials impedance mismatch. If there is a solid connection between two surfaces of similar density energy will flow freely between the two materials. If the materials are of different enough density/elasticity, energy will be reflected by the materials impedance mismatch.

All speakers rock back and forth a bit when the drivers are moving. Using a squishy material between the box and the floor will keep the rocking motion from transferring to the floor.

It's pretty simple.



Ref: https://www.nde-ed.org/EducationReso...ansmission.htm
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post #203 of 242 Old 05-06-2015, 05:32 AM
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I'm going to buy a set of these feet for my svs subwoofer when I decide which one to purchase, PB1000 or PB2000. Simply because I have hardwood floors and I don't want it scooting across the floor and I also think they look cool and if they sound or perform better well that's a bonus. Frankly I don't see how it couldn't help and I don't see any way it would hurt the subs performance.

Just my 2 cents
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post #204 of 242 Old 05-06-2015, 08:28 AM
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What is the durometer rating on these feet?
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post #205 of 242 Old 05-14-2015, 05:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iatacs19 View Post
What is the durometer rating on these feet?
(this system features optimized durometer elastomer feet which significantly reduce floor vibration)
don't know what this means but I got this from the svs website description of the subwoofer feet.
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post #206 of 242 Old 05-15-2015, 04:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MIX_MASTER_ICE View Post
Of the 29 reviews of these on Amazon, 26 are 5 star. The single 1 star was from somebody who bought them not knowing they wouldn't fit their sub. If these were nothing more than a gimmick, I would think the vast majority of people WHO HAVE tested these out would be posting 1 star reviews.
Concerning the validity of Amazon reviews(lol): 2,127 reviews, 4.6 stars, time for all of us to trade in our subs
http://www.amazon.com/Polk-Audio-10-...ords=subwoofer

Could have also linked the 4.5 star Bose.......

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post #207 of 242 Old 05-15-2015, 10:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bear123 View Post
Concerning the validity of Amazon reviews(lol): 2,127 reviews, 4.6 stars, time for all of us to trade in our subs
http://www.amazon.com/Polk-Audio-10-...ords=subwoofer

Could have also linked the 4.5 star Bose.......

Totally irrelevant point you attempted to make in an apples to oranges scenario. Would you rather refer to the 40 out of 42 reviews 4 and 5 star reviews at svsound.com? The lone 2 star review even stating the score had nothing to do with the product.
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post #208 of 242 Old 05-15-2015, 11:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bear123 View Post
Concerning the validity of Amazon reviews(lol): 2,127 reviews, 4.6 stars, time for all of us to trade in our subs
http://www.amazon.com/Polk-Audio-10-...ords=subwoofer

Could have also linked the 4.5 star Bose.......

Can one only be happy with a high end sub? I miss the relationship here. As for the isolation feet, I am not sure what the big deal is. Don't people feel the same about isolation platforms. To each his own. No one can claim to know every possible scenario and environment where these may actually provide some benefit.

Politics is like religion. You never know who you serve.
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post #209 of 242 Old 05-15-2015, 12:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by morrischestnut60 View Post
Can one only be happy with a high end sub? I miss the relationship here. As for the isolation feet, I am not sure what the big deal is. Don't people feel the same about isolation platforms. To each his own. No one can claim to know every possible scenario and environment where these may actually provide some benefit.
Ah, but see, there IS someone who does "claim to know" that the SVS isolation feet can't work because that's not the way vibrations from subs are propagated, and that until and unless SVS provides hard data proving that their isolation feet actually do provide isolation, they are purveyors of "snake oil". Sounds to me like the accusation that SVS is knowingly lying.
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post #210 of 242 Old 05-15-2015, 01:16 PM
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You guys crack me up with all of the scientific debate. I just put some on a PB-1000. I played some hard hitting action scenes on a couple movies, both with and without. While I won't say there was a difference in the sound quality, there WAS a difference in how the floor below was effected. I went downstairs to hear the difference, and what was once rattling things a bit, the vibrations downstairs became practically non-existent with the feet on. So it seems to me that with your house vibrating a bit less, that it could theoretically be less distracting from the bass output itself, and thus cleaner? Not debating the sound quality itself though; but rather the acceptance factor of your neighbors downstairs. Depending on the construction of the place, these feet CAN make a difference in that regard. With the feet, you could hardly even tell anything was going on upstairs.

I'm sure you could do some DIY treatments that would be far cheaper and every bit as, if not more effective. BUT, I personally liked the feet since they are a good looking, clean and easy solution. Whether or not they're worth $50 is up to you. I'd be much more likely to recommend them if they were half the price. I still liked them either way though. Can be worth it when on hardwood or upper floors that have little to no vibration isolating properties underneath the sub-flooring.
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