$1000-1500 Subwoofer Suggestions and Thoughts - Page 2 - AVS Forum
View Poll Results: Subwoofer of Choice
Definitive Technology 8000 1 9.09%
Paradigm Seismic 110 0 0%
Other ( please specify) 10 90.91%
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post #31 of 61 Old 10-15-2013, 02:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Kini62 View Post

Nope. And I don't need it in my room. I get a nice even response across all four seats in my small room, so a second sub would add little to smoothness only add output, which I currently don't need.
No by "really awesome" I mean one that sounds better, has less distortion, more headroom, deeper extension and better build.

You can spend $1000 on two pretty good subs or spend $1000-$1200 on one really good sub that will have all the above over the pair of subs.

Do you have any graphs? I believe you would be the first person on AVS to have a nice flat response with 1 sub across 4 seats...I can see for 1-2 seating positions but 4?

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Not saying I don't believe you, I just find it hard to believe.
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post #32 of 61 Old 10-15-2013, 02:58 PM
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Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

For right around the same price as those two subs you could get a XS30 from PSA. I have two of them, they're a great sub and could fit your requirements nicely.



And for $150 more you could get it in a really nice veneer finish.

No offense to PSA sealed subs but why is the plate on the side of the sub? Man thats really ugly. I wouldn't want sub cable to be hanging out the side.

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post #33 of 61 Old 10-15-2013, 03:01 PM
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Originally Posted by cchunter View Post

No offense to PSA sealed subs but why is the plate on the side of the sub? Man thats really ugly. I wouldn't want sub cable to be hanging out the side.

Hahaha. What is a "side," anyway?

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post #34 of 61 Old 10-15-2013, 03:08 PM
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Originally Posted by SaviorMachine View Post

Hahaha. What is a "side," anyway?
Hmm lets see here the definition of side is a position to the left or right of an object, place, or central point. Now I'm assuming that big black circle thing there is considered the central point and usually faces towards the listener but not always. So I think that there plate with the turn knobbys would be considered to be on the "side".

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post #35 of 61 Old 10-15-2013, 03:10 PM
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Originally Posted by cchunter View Post

No offense to PSA sealed subs but why is the plate on the side of the sub? Man thats really ugly. I wouldn't want sub cable to be hanging out the side.
Cuz it has dual opposed drivers similar to the submersive
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post #36 of 61 Old 10-15-2013, 03:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Cowboys View Post

Cuz it has dual opposed drivers similar to the submersive
Ahhh that makes sense lol. Thanks. I'll do a little more research next time before I stick my foot in my mouth. I should've known better rolleyes.gif I still dont like the looks of it though

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post #37 of 61 Old 10-15-2013, 03:14 PM
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Originally Posted by cchunter View Post

Ahhh that makes sense lol. Thanks

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post #38 of 61 Old 10-15-2013, 03:18 PM
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Originally Posted by SaviorMachine View Post

I'm sorry that I'm a jerk
No offense taken. I had a brain fart and was called out on it. tongue.gif

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post #39 of 61 Old 10-15-2013, 04:46 PM
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Where else would you put a plate amp on a dual opposed sub?.....lol
It wouldn't look any different to anything else that's dual opposed design.

So I'm guessing you think a SubM HP is an ugly sub too.
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post #40 of 61 Old 10-15-2013, 05:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cchunter View Post

Ahhh that makes sense lol. Thanks. I'll do a little more research next time before I stick my foot in my mouth. I should've known better rolleyes.gif I still dont like the looks of it though
Aren't the drivers on the sides, the amp on the back and a clean veneered or black front?

Randy
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post #41 of 61 Old 10-15-2013, 06:46 PM
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For a dual driver sub with a more palatable amp placement, check out the Dayton dual woofer kit. It's big and heavy and needs a little bit of assembly, but it is under $1k shipped and will have terrific sound quality and a decent punch too. Given the quality of the drivers and how overbuilt the cabinet is, I doubt any sub near $1k could match it for sound quality.
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post #42 of 61 Old 10-15-2013, 09:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Oh that gets me thinking, what do you guys think about DIY subs? Such as this Dayton?^^

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post #43 of 61 Old 10-15-2013, 09:43 PM
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That Dayton kit isn't really DIY, its just a kit. Real DIY can do way better for bang-for-the-buck. For $1500 you could have dual 18" subs pretty easily. You won't get close to that kind of performance value with any commercial subwoofer.
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post #44 of 61 Old 10-15-2013, 11:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Player3 View Post

Oh that gets me thinking, what do you guys think about DIY subs? Such as this Dayton?^^

Be sure to look at the spec sheet on that Dayton...it shows the FR dropping like a rock after 25hz. If low end extension is important to you, you can do a lot better for a lot cheaper.
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post #45 of 61 Old 10-15-2013, 11:43 PM
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It's a sealed sub, it doesn't drop like a rock at 25 Hz, a ported sub would do that. It drops at a 12/dB per octave below the f3 which looks like 40 Hz on that sub.
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post #46 of 61 Old 10-16-2013, 12:11 AM
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Well, you might want to tell that to Dayton, because the graph they show in the manual drops over 15db from 30hz to 20hz ...http://www.parts-express.com/pdf/300-766m.pdf In fact the manual claims its -3db is 27hz, and that is with a 6db boost on the parametric EQ.
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post #47 of 61 Old 10-16-2013, 12:42 AM
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I would take that graph with a grain of salt. There is nothing about the drivers or amp that suggest anything with differ from a typical sealed roll off.
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post #48 of 61 Old 10-16-2013, 01:21 AM
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I'm not sure why a company would shortchange its specs in its own literature. It seems to me the main goal of that design is high output above 30db (which it achieves), but it doesn't look like low end extension was part of the design or the result.
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post #49 of 61 Old 10-16-2013, 06:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Audiophile2k View Post

I'm not sure why a company would shortchange its specs in its own literature. It seems to me the main goal of that design is high output above 30db (which it achieves), but it doesn't look like low end extension was part of the design or the result.

It’s your typical case of modesty. wink.gifsmile.gif

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post #50 of 61 Old 10-16-2013, 06:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Audiophile2k View Post

I'm not sure why a company would shortchange its specs in its own literature. It seems to me the main goal of that design is high output above 30db (which it achieves), but it doesn't look like low end extension was part of the design or the result.

Agreed. It's very rare that a company's own measurements will be a lot worse than actual performance.
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post #51 of 61 Old 10-16-2013, 09:53 AM
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That is more likely an illustration of the EQ'd response than an actual measurement. There is nothing else that would suggest this subwoofer would have anything other than a typical sealed roll off. Take a look at the driver measurement. The amp itself is designed to be used with any driver, it probably isn't going to have a special filter built in for that particular unit.
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post #52 of 61 Old 10-16-2013, 10:21 AM
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Shady, I'm not trying to start any sort of argument here, and we have somewhat derailed the original topic by focusing so much on this...but I don't know what you aren't seeing. Even the driver specs state it has a usable frequency response of only 25hz. The graph in your link looks almost identical to the one I linked to without the EQ boosting it in the mid 20s. Please explain to me what you are seeing!!! This driver simply isn't capable of anything much below 25hz. Its wheelhouse is high output in the above 30hz range. That is what this driver was designed for, NOT subsonic frequencies. Nothing wrong with that, I'm not bashing the speaker or the design...but it is a simple statement of fact that you are not going to have any useful output below about 25hz with this sub or this driver.
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post #53 of 61 Old 10-16-2013, 10:36 AM
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I don't believe this sub is any worse than any other sealed subs with respect to the low end roll off. you are giving too much weight to ambiguous specs ("usable frequency range"). You can argue that the subwoofer wouldn't have much oomph below 25 hz, and I would agree to an extant, but I don't believe that it would be any worse than any other sealed subwoofer. I don't know for sure, and I could be wrong, I'll shoot Dayton an email asking about it.
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post #54 of 61 Old 10-16-2013, 10:49 AM
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Compare it to this driver, which has useful output to 15hz. http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=295-514 Different drivers, different design goals. If I wanted something that would go deep on a budget, that is the Dayton driver I would choose. Check out the DIY section of the forum for drivers that can get down to the single digits, but don't ever expect a driver that was designed for output to 25hz to ever do much better than that, no matter what the design of the cabinet is.
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post #55 of 61 Old 10-16-2013, 10:57 AM
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The Ultimax places more emphasis on xmax, which does give it greater extension, however that would be irrelevant to the slope of the roll off, which is what we are arguing here.
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post #56 of 61 Old 10-16-2013, 11:41 AM
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A sub can be high passed wherever. Weird that there's so much zeal to attribute characteristics to the product in defiance of its advertised performance. Also have you heard this unit, ever?

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post #57 of 61 Old 10-16-2013, 12:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Player3 View Post

Oh that gets me thinking, what do you guys think about DIY subs? Such as this Dayton?^^

If you want to go full DIY without the need to cut your own enclosures you can always get flat packs online. If you are truly looking for the best bang for your buck with a medium sized budget DIY is a great option.

It will take a little assembly, but you'll learn a few things along the way and get a great performing system out of it.

I would recommend:

Dual 18" subs. There is no question that having a second subwoofer will help provide a better response throughout the room.

Enclosure:
4 cu ft enclosure: http://www.diysoundgroup.com/subwoofer-flatpacks-2/4-sub-flat-pack.html - Erich does a great job shipping these out and does it basically at cost. (Make sure you get some binding posts from him or from parts-express) = $240 + shipping for two

Driver: Two options: Dayton RS 18" http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=295-472 or the Stereo Integrity D2 http://stereointegrity.com/index.php?id=57 = ~500$ shipped for a pair

Amp: iNuke 6000 (Can find these wherever is easy, local or amazon) = 400$

There are numerous ways to finish the speakers depending on what look you like. Some people like veneer, others like painting them with something like Duratex (very durable paint that has a nice texture).

This will give you a system that performs at a higher teir than anything else you'd get commercially at this price point and fall within your budget. The downside (upside to some) is that you will need to put it together. You could use your extra budget to figure out some EQ for the subs (minidsp is a popular option) or get the iNuke6000 with the DSP (slightly less flexible but integrated in the amp)

You can see some more technical information about these two subs in a 4 cu ft enclosure here:

Dayton: http://www.data-bass.com/data?page=system&id=89
SI18: http://www.data-bass.com/data?page=system&id=90

You can directly compare to several other subs mentioned in this thread such as the SVS PB12 and Rythmik FV15. Remember when looking at graphs that adding a second speaker gains 3db and doubling the power (using the second channel of the amp) also gains an additional 3 db.
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post #58 of 61 Old 10-16-2013, 01:17 PM
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OK, you guys were right, I was wrong. Dayton has said that there is a standard 18 Hz rumble filter on that amplifier, which would account for that sharp roll off. I didn't think there would be a HPF in a sealed sub. I have asked if there is a way to disable it, which would be more advantageous for sealed subs and am awaiting an answer for that. I thought that graph was just an illustration, but it appears to be a heavily smoothed near field measurement.

received answer back from Dayton, they said the rumble filter is not defeatable on that sub. That is a shame.
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post #59 of 61 Old 10-16-2013, 02:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

Do you have any graphs? I believe you would be the first person on AVS to have a nice flat response with 1 sub across 4 seats...I can see for 1-2 seating positions but 4?

Edit*

Not saying I don't believe you, I just find it hard to believe.

I don't have nor do I want any graphing equipment, I'm not that anal tongue.gif I'm sure the response is not graph flat across the sofa but it's flat enough for me not to be able to hear it. Which is good enough for me to not want a second sub.

I can walk around the room a find hotspots and nulls so my hearing is OK.

But............................. I do have my unused DT SC8000 just sitting in the back of the room collecting dust. Would it be of any use setup near field behind the sofa? I am running a PC12+, 1650ft^3 room.

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post #60 of 61 Old 10-16-2013, 07:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kini62 View Post

I don't have nor do I want any graphing equipment, I'm not that anal tongue.gif I'm sure the response is not graph flat across the sofa but it's flat enough for me not to be able to hear it. Which is good enough for me to not want a second sub.

I can walk around the room a find hotspots and nulls so my hearing is OK.

But............................. I do have my unused DT SC8000 just sitting in the back of the room collecting dust. Would it be of any use setup near field behind the sofa? I am running a PC12+, 1650ft^3 room.

Thanks

Was just curious...all that matters is it sounds good to you smile.gif

I would try it to see if it adds more tactile response.
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