SVS PB-12NSD not powerful enough? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 32 Old 10-05-2013, 08:39 AM - Thread Starter
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I bought a SVS PB-12NSD and I cannot get the output from this thing that I'm looking for, my last sub was a 10" cerwin vega @ 100 watts and nearly put out the same output.. obviously the SVS sounds LOADS better and is about 30% more powerful but for 700$ vs 50$ its nothing like I expected.. I have to literally put the knobs on FULL and put my receiver on +12db on the subwoofer setting to achieve anything close to what I'm looking for lol.. I'm a dubstep/HEAVY bass fanatic, looking for something that you can bring to the point where you don't want to turn it any louder, where pictures and objects are literally vibrating off the table across the house.. but I feel like I could have 2 of these subs in my room and not be satisfied(4x5 meters room)... I was going to buy a 21" powered 2400 watt cerwin and I guarantee that thing would have left me in awe... I don't really understand why this SVS sub gets all the love because either I haven't set this thing up right, or the pb-12nsd isn't as great as everyone makes it out to be..

when I searched this sub on amazon one of the comments said that buddies 12" 300 watt klipsch was much more powerful then the svs that he had purchased, and thats exactly how i feel, like i've been schmucked into buying this thing by a bunch of reviews!! I thought to myself no way the sub wont be powerful enough, 1 guy of 50 had a problem it has to be him, figures I am not satisfied either lol.. i've seen people(multiple) say that they put it half way(volume/gain) and its overly powerful lol, i put mine half way and can barely hear the bass on any reasonable volume.. i'm wondering did i buy a sub that was messed up? but then, when I put her on full blast the limiter starts kicking in and the excursion and bass is massive, but i don't feel like i should have to put the knobs to 10/10 on both gain and volume knobs to achieve that volume.. thats another thing the limiter light is always on, if I am playing a song at the volumes i prefer it literally glows 24/7 and i don't think thats really healthy for the amp..

don't get me wrong, the subwoofer sounds 100% amazing, it does shake stuff in the room but when I'm playing at 110-120 db its really fading out, the high's overpower it big time.. not what i had originally thought is all.. unless someone can maybe give me some pointers on what I might be doing wrong with the setup(moved it to 2 different spots in my room)i think i'm going to sell it and go with either the 18" 1400 watt cerwin or the 21" 2400 watt cerwin.. sure I won't be hitting 20hz but I think for what I use the sub for I don't need to.
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post #2 of 32 Old 10-05-2013, 09:14 AM
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I have dual PB12-NSD subwoofers in my HT.

I get tremendous output from them and depending on source material, they never fail to rock my home theater with authority!

All I did was calibrate each sub to 75dB and then I ran the full eight position Audyssey MultEQ XT32 with Sub EQ HT calibration.

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post #3 of 32 Old 10-05-2013, 09:31 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coolcat4843 View Post

I have dual PB12-NSD subwoofers in my HT.

I get tremendous output from them and depending on source material, they never fail to rock my home theater with authority!

All I did was calibrate each sub to 75dB and then I ran the full eight position Audyssey MultEQ XT32 with Sub EQ HT calibration.


dumb that last part down for me... i'm new to the technical aspects!!
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post #4 of 32 Old 10-05-2013, 09:32 AM
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Why don't you call the folks at SVS and explain your situation. Nobody knows their products like they do -smile.gif
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post #5 of 32 Old 10-05-2013, 09:36 AM
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Originally Posted by dizturb3d View Post

when I'm playing at 110-120 db its really fading out

You're expecting way too much from this sub. Here are the max output numbers for the PB12-NSD.



If you're measuring correctly, and you have mains that play cleanly at 120dB, then a $700 sub is clearly not going to keep up. You'll need at least a Submersive or Cap to do that.
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post #6 of 32 Old 10-05-2013, 09:37 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by tenderchkn View Post

You're expecting way to much from this sub. Here are the max output numbers for the PB12-NSD.



If you're measuring correctly, and you have mains that play cleanly at 120dB, then a $700 sub is clearly not going to keep up. You'll need at least a Submersive or Cap to do that.

how about a 2400 watt cerwin vega 21"..
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post #7 of 32 Old 10-05-2013, 09:47 AM
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Never heard it, but it looks like a pro audio/music/dj sub. If you're going to use it for music 100% of the time, it should be okay. Otherwise, the other two subs that I mentioned will dig much deeper and have a smaller footprint than that Cerwin.
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post #8 of 32 Old 10-05-2013, 09:55 AM
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Problem is that I believe a SubM or Cap will give him sticker shock once he looks further into them.

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post #9 of 32 Old 10-05-2013, 10:01 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Prime316 View Post

Problem is that I believe a SubM or Cap will give him sticker shock once he looks further into them.

agree, i make minimum wage.. and honestly i wouldn't spend over 800$ on a subwoofer, i can get that 21" cerwin for 800$, it has a 2400 watt peak and a 135DB spl... i think that thing will be mind blowing, i understand people hate on cerwin, but i don't understand why.. statistically if you want to listen to loud HUGE bass and for the price, its looking like cerwin is unbeatable.

i do understand that it will only reach like 34hz but honestly, what mainstream dubstep/hiphop/meta/rock is reaching 20hz? lol 1% of it?
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post #10 of 32 Old 10-05-2013, 10:05 AM
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The OP looks like he might like the Outlaw LFM-1EX in one port blocked mode. Should be a sale in November. Duals should be impressive, however if he can raise his spending limit to >$2000 the Submersive or Captivator will take things to another level entirely.
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post #11 of 32 Old 10-05-2013, 10:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dizturb3d View Post

agree, i make minimum wage.. and honestly i wouldn't spend over 800$ on a subwoofer, i can get that 21" cerwin for 800$, it has a 2400 watt peak and a 135DB spl... i think that thing will be mind blowing, i understand people hate on cerwin, but i don't understand why.. statistically if you want to listen to loud HUGE bass and for the price, its looking like cerwin is unbeatable.

i do understand that it will only reach like 34hz but honestly, what mainstream dubstep/hiphop/meta/rock is reaching 20hz? lol 1% of it?

Are you going to be able to audition it before buying it? If you can't, be sure you can return it if it doesn't work for you. If you feel it's going to work for you then by all means...Go For It!

This stuff isn't science on this site, what may not work for someone else might work for you. As mentioned above, that sub might just do you good for what you want.

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post #12 of 32 Old 10-05-2013, 10:07 AM
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The PB-12NSD is not designed to be a output monster above 30hz...it has very linear response with great output in the 16-25hz range where movies utilize that output the most. What you are paying for is the ability to have a sub that can dig down sub 20hz. Your 50.00 cerwin vega wont come close to doing that, but it probably does have similar output around 50hz where majority of music bass resides. Building a sub with massive output above 40hz does not cost nearly as much as building a sub with massive output around 15-20hz. It takes alot heavier duty driver and gobs of power with a very inert enclosure.

If you want alot of output above 40hz for music them return the PB-12NSD and pick up a Pair of Premier Acoustic PA-150 15" subs. You can get a pair for the price of the PB12 and they will give you another 15db output above 40hz.
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post #13 of 32 Old 10-05-2013, 10:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dizturb3d View Post

agree, i make minimum wage.. and honestly i wouldn't spend over 800$ on a subwoofer, i can get that 21" cerwin for 800$, it has a 2400 watt peak and a 135DB spl... i think that thing will be mind blowing, i understand people hate on cerwin, but i don't understand why.. statistically if you want to listen to loud HUGE bass and for the price, its looking like cerwin is unbeatable.

i do understand that it will only reach like 34hz but honestly, what mainstream dubstep/hiphop/meta/rock is reaching 20hz? lol 1% of it?

People hate on cerwin because they do not have **** for output below 30hz. Most here want subs that work for both movies and music which costs alot of money.
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post #14 of 32 Old 10-05-2013, 10:10 AM
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Originally Posted by spyboy View Post

The OP looks like he might like the Outlaw LFM-1EX in one port blocked mode. Should be a sale in November. Duals should be impressive, however if he can raise his spending limit to >$2000 the Submersive or Captivator will take things to another level entirely.

No for his budget he needs a pair of PA-150's....they will tea bag the LFM-1's above 40hz. The op appears to want the most ouput he can get above 40hz. Also the PA-150 will still have useable output down to 20hz just in case he decides to pop in a movie from time to time. smile.gif
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post #15 of 32 Old 10-05-2013, 10:17 AM
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+1 on the PA-150 since OP only cares about >30hz output. It is tremendous value for mid-bass punch at $350/each.

By the way, take that 135dB figure with a mountain of salt. It sounds very optimistic and tells us nothing about how the measurement was made and at what frequency.
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post #16 of 32 Old 10-05-2013, 10:21 AM
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

....they will tea bag the LFM-1's above 40hz.

Hahaha wow.

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post #17 of 32 Old 10-05-2013, 10:23 AM - Thread Starter
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so it seems like the average svs user doesn't push music to 120db and if they are they probably have a second sub in the room that has more powerful output above 105db~ understandable.. thanks for the help guys and any more information/input/suggestions i will take into account! very informative and fast responses, you guys rock smile.gif

edit: i hope no one misunderstands me, i do realize the sound quality of the svs is substantial being compared to any of cerwins products when it comes to theater and low hz.. but i live in a heavily populated college area where its basically a who can have the loudest bass contest, and my neighbors ****** pa sub that he paid 299$ for is doing way better then my svs in the sound travel department wink.gif
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post #18 of 32 Old 10-05-2013, 10:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dizturb3d View Post

so it seems like the average svs user doesn't push music to 120db and if they are they probably have a second sub in the room that has more powerful output above 105db~ understandable.. thanks for the help guys and any more information/input/suggestions i will take into account! very informative and fast responses, you guys rock smile.gif

edit: i hope no one misunderstands me, i do realize the sound quality of the svs is substantial being compared to any of cerwins products when it comes to theater and low hz.. but i live in a heavily populated college area where its basically a who can have the loudest bass contest, and my neighbors ****** pa sub that he paid 299$ for is doing way better then my svs in the sound travel department wink.gif

Like I said SVS builds subs with a linear response that work well with both music and movies. If you want a SVS sub with 120+ db output then you need to pony up the coin for a PB13 Ultra. Again it costs alot more money to build a sub that will produce a reference level output from 15-100hz. If you do not mind giving up output below 30hz then there are cheaper subs that will net lots of output in the 40-80hz range.
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post #19 of 32 Old 10-05-2013, 10:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dizturb3d View Post

so it seems like the average svs user doesn't push music to 120db and if they are they probably have a second sub in the room that has more powerful output above 105db~ understandable.. thanks for the help guys and any more information/input/suggestions i will take into account! very informative and fast responses, you guys rock smile.gif

edit: i hope no one misunderstands me, i do realize the sound quality of the svs is substantial being compared to any of cerwins products when it comes to theater and low hz.. but i live in a heavily populated college area where its basically a who can have the loudest bass contest, and my neighbors ****** pa sub that he paid 299$ for is doing way better then my svs in the sound travel department wink.gif

Wow. Reminds me of the dorms when I was in college. Glad those days are behind me. I'll take quality over quantity all day long.

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post #20 of 32 Old 10-05-2013, 10:34 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Prime316 View Post

Wow. Reminds me of the dorms when I was in college. Glad those days are behind me. I'll take quality over quantity all day long.

honestly bro the neighbor has a cerwin 18" int-118s he got it for 200 bucks, thing pounds! hes running it with a little 600 watt power amp and it moves so much air its unreal - also for what we listen to it sounds amazing!
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post #21 of 32 Old 10-05-2013, 10:35 AM
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Originally Posted by dizturb3d View Post

so it seems like the average svs user doesn't push music to 120db

Given the fact that as little as 7.5 minutes of exposure to 120dB levels can cause permanent hearing loss, I don't think many people do. wink.gif

If you're engaging in a pissing contest with your neighbors, have you ever thought about 10hz capability at 115dB? I guarantee you that it will travel VERY far. smile.gif
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post #22 of 32 Old 10-05-2013, 10:37 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by tenderchkn View Post

Given the fact that as little as 7.5 minutes of exposure to 120dB levels can cause permanent hearing loss, I don't think many people do. wink.gif

If you're engaging in a pissing contest with your neighbors, have you ever thought about 10hz capability at 115dB? I guarantee you that it will travel VERY far. smile.gif

yea and how much is a sub that pushes 10hz at 115db gonna cost? over 9000~? hahaha
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post #23 of 32 Old 10-05-2013, 10:41 AM
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In your room? You should be able to get it done for about $3-4k. It wasn't a serious suggestion, but it would be worth the money to film his reaction if you play a 10hz note while he's sleeping.
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post #24 of 32 Old 10-05-2013, 10:56 AM
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Wow. Reminds me of the dorms when I was in college. Glad those days are behind me. I'll take quality over quantity all day long.

Same here!
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post #25 of 32 Old 10-05-2013, 10:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tenderchkn View Post

Given the fact that as little as 7.5 minutes of exposure to 120dB levels can cause permanent hearing loss, I don't think many people do. wink.gif

If you're engaging in a pissing contest with your neighbors, have you ever thought about 10hz capability at 115dB? I guarantee you that it will travel VERY far. smile.gif

that only applies to A weighted long term high frequency sound. We can tolerate much louder C weighted low frequencies below 100hz for much longer periods of time. I doubt his mains are coming anywhere close to 120db. that takes some serious speakers and power.
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post #26 of 32 Old 10-05-2013, 12:17 PM
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Something seems amiss. maybe placement, setup or combination.
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post #27 of 32 Old 10-05-2013, 12:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dizturb3d View Post

agree, i make minimum wage.. and honestly i wouldn't spend over 800$ on a subwoofer, i can get that 21" cerwin for 800$, it has a 2400 watt peak and a 135DB spl... i think that thing will be mind blowing,

Talking about the CVA-121? The frequency response is listed as 32 Hz - 135 Hz (-10 dB). So, as someone else pointed out, probably good for music, but not for HT usage if you want good 20hz extension.
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I bought a SVS PB-12NSD and I cannot get the output from this thing that I'm looking for, my last sub was a 10" cerwin vega @ 100 watts and nearly put out the same output.

Then you likely have a configuration/setup problem. Very unlikely that a 10", 100 watt sub will have the max output of the PB12.
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post #28 of 32 Old 10-05-2013, 04:16 PM
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Your room is approximately 20m2. Can hit 120db not in that room, here in Europe is considered a standard size room, or small or large, medium.

But surely you could reach 115db at some frequencies (bordering the limiter). The position and the EQ is important to determine how performance will be optimal in their room.

To achieve in that room of 20m2 120db at some frequencies, you have to go to subwoofers as + or PB13 PB12-Ultra if you want to go a little further.
In any case, SVS consult your problem and I'm sure they will be able to help you get the most out of your subwoofer. Otherwise, an update is required for your needs.
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post #29 of 32 Old 10-06-2013, 07:14 PM
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the PA-150 will still have useable output down to 20hz just in case he decides to pop in a movie from time to time

20.gif

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post #30 of 32 Old 10-06-2013, 09:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spidey.joe80 View Post

Something seems amiss. maybe placement, setup or combination.

My thoughts too. Is the sub in a sound null ?

i.e. With music and sub going full out as you walk around the room does the sub volume change at all?

Does the OP know the sub-placement "trick" to getting maximum woofage? Temporarily put the sub where you ears normally would be. Crawl around on the floor listening for where the sub sounds great. Now put the sub there.

Edit: Added the "subwoofer crawl method"

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