Rythmik F25 vs. F15HP - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 61 Old 10-10-2013, 11:29 AM - Thread Starter
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New thread question, see latest past by OP
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post #2 of 61 Old 10-10-2013, 11:43 AM
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I don't think databass has tested the F25, have they? Since it is a sealed model, I would expect there to be a more gradual rolloff than the FV15, so the output at 10Hz might be closer than you think. That being said, the lower you go below 15hz the less and less content will be there (okay, I know 20yrs ago that argument was made against anything below 40hz....) and once we get below 20hz there is really nothing to be heard, only felt. So unless we are talking about extremely high levels and enough woofage to create a pressure vessel in you room, there is a good chance that extra 2hz would never be audible. I think you see where I'm going with this...go with the single F25 for now. There is good chance it might perform so well you won't even want to spend the extra cash on the second. (although I am big proponent of multiple subs) As we discussed in the other thread, the Rythmik is going to give you a better bang for you buck, even if you could get the Sub 2 at the same price as the Rythmik.
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post #3 of 61 Old 10-10-2013, 12:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Audiophile2k View Post

I don't think databass has tested the F25, have they? Since it is a sealed model, I would expect there to be a more gradual rolloff than the FV15, so the output at 10Hz might be closer than you think. That being said, the lower you go below 15hz the less and less content will be there (okay, I know 20yrs ago that argument was made against anything below 40hz....) and once we get below 20hz there is really nothing to be heard, only felt. So unless we are talking about extremely high levels and enough woofage to create a pressure vessel in you room, there is a good chance that extra 2hz would never be audible. I think you see where I'm going with this...go with the single F25 for now. There is good chance it might perform so well you won't even want to spend the extra cash on the second. (although I am big proponent of multiple subs) As we discussed in the other thread, the Rythmik is going to give you a better bang for you buck, even if you could get the Sub 2 at the same price as the Rythmik.

No, they haven't tested the F25 on Data Bass, but I was told that the FV15HP has a 1dB advantage over the F25:

"F12: 0db (baseline)
F15: +2db D15: +2db
LV12R: +3db
E15HP: + 3.5db
F15HP: +4db
FV15HP: +9db
F25: +8db"

per a response someone posted from Rythmik in the other thread I had.
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post #4 of 61 Old 10-10-2013, 12:26 PM
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Daul F25's are still a better deal imo. There is a reason your Paradigm dealer wants to "move" that Sub2. You will never see that from ID companies like Rythmik since thier products are priced right from the get go.

That scale from Rythmik you posted is for 20hz only. The FV15HP has a 1db advantage over the F25 in 2 port max output mode @ 20hz.
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post #5 of 61 Old 10-10-2013, 12:28 PM
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This was covered in your last thread. The dual f25 should have equal or more output at all frequencies for less $. Dual subs are better than a single and I would get the f25's if they were the same price. If you just want the paradigm and really like the dealer then get it. Those who have it really like it. I think the choice is on you at this point as i feel little can be added that hasn't already been covered in you other thread.
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1492221/thinking-of-upgrading-my-paradigm-sub-25-suggestions/150#post_23788836

The rythmik numbers are at 20hz only, and have zero bearing on 10hz.
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post #6 of 61 Old 10-10-2013, 12:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

Daul F25's are still a better deal imo. There is a reason your Paradigm dealer wants to "move" that Sub2. You will never see that from ID companies like Rythmik since thier products are priced right from the get go.

That scale from Rythmik you posted is for 20hz only. The FV15HP has a 1db advantage over the F25 in 2 port max output mode @ 20hz.

Thanks for the clarification. I figured it was @ 20Hz, but wasn't entirely sure.
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post #7 of 61 Old 10-10-2013, 12:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke Kamp View Post

This was covered in your last thread. The dual f25 should have equal or more output at all frequencies for less $. Dual subs are better than a single and I would get the f25's if they were the same price. If you just want the paradigm and really like the dealer then get it. Those who have it really like it. I think the choice is on you at this point as i feel little can be added that hasn't already been covered in you other thread.
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1492221/thinking-of-upgrading-my-paradigm-sub-25-suggestions/150#post_23788836

The rythmik numbers are at 20hz only, and have zero bearing on 10hz.

I know, you guys have been outstanding. Am about to get my paycheck deposited into my bank account @ 5pm tonight, and I was leaning heavily towards the F25 route but wanted to get final thoughts before I pull the trigger tonight.

However, I can only afford one F25 at the moment (should be able to get the second one sometime in November). Will just the one F25 show improvement over my current Paradigm Sub 25? Just wondering if I need to hold-off watching some of the new "reference" movies (like Pacific Rim and Iron Man 3) until I have the duals setup....or will just the single F25 still treat me to a better output than my Sub 25 did?

Thanks guys!!!!
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post #8 of 61 Old 10-10-2013, 02:03 PM
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I would be willing to wager the F25 is a noticeable improvement over the Sub25.


That being said, You already have a Sub, why not wait till November until you can afford the pair of F25's? That is right around the corner...
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post #9 of 61 Old 10-10-2013, 03:05 PM
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I haven't compared those 2 subs personally, but 2 to 4 good subs will have a big advantage over 1 good sub, if you can position them on opposite corners of the room.
The benefits are:
1) More power & efficiency.
2) Cancels out room modes along the axis between the subs, dramatically improving frequency response.
3) Better seat to seat consistency along the axis between the subs. Consistency allows you to EQ a bigger area for ideal response.

2 is much better than 1.
4 is much better than 2.
Try to keep it symmetrical.

These issues are much more important than 10hz vs 12hz.
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post #10 of 61 Old 10-10-2013, 05:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

I would be willing to wager the F25 is a noticeable improvement over the Sub25.


That being said, You already have a Sub, why not wait till November until you can afford the pair of F25's? That is right around the corner...

I'm going to place an order for one F25 tonight and the other as soon as is possible. I was already told by Rythmik that when I purchase the second F25 they will retroactively apply the discount of a multiple sub purchase (when purchasing dual F25's, they are $1259 each, so on the second F25 purchase I will be making they will apply roughly a $300 discount, plus shipping).

I already have the Sub 25 shipped out (sold very quickly). I will watch some of my favorite go to movies on the single Rythmik F25 (Tron and Transformers) to see what it can do on it's own and compare it to what I had heard over various viewings with the Sub 25 of the past.

Excited!
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post #11 of 61 Old 10-10-2013, 05:24 PM
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I'm excited for you! Can't wait to hear your impressions of the new sub.
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post #12 of 61 Old 10-10-2013, 10:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Sooooo.....I was about to order the first F25 tonight but wanted to do a little more digging to make sure I am certain this is the right route (i.e. - double checking Seaton and JTR). But I also found myself double checking the Rythmik website and noticed that the F25 uses the DS1501 driver with a 800w amplifier (400w per woofer), while the F15HP (the sealed 15", not the vented) uses the DS1510 driver with 600w amplifier.

I compared the DS1510 to the DS1501 and noticed the 1510 has more excursion and higher power handling. This leads me to believe the DS1510 is a superior driver to the DS1501. Am I nitpicking too much or would looking at dual F15HP's instead of dual F25's be an overall better route? Or will the F25 beat out an F15HP?

Just dotting all my i's and crossing all my t's. Also sent my question to Rythmik, see what they say.

Thanks!
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post #13 of 61 Old 10-10-2013, 10:23 PM
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F12: 0db (baseline)
F15: +2db D15: +2db
LV12R: +3db
E15HP: + 3.5db
F15HP: +4db
FV15HP: +9db
F25: +8db"

The F25 is going to be more economical to get basically the same output.
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post #14 of 61 Old 10-10-2013, 11:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCoolJesus View Post

Sooooo.....I was about to order the first F25 tonight but wanted to do a little more digging to make sure I am certain this is the right route (i.e. - double checking Seaton and JTR). But I also found myself double checking the Rythmik website and noticed that the F25 uses the DS1501 driver with a 800w amplifier (400w per woofer), while the F15HP (the sealed 15", not the vented) uses the DS1510 driver with 600w amplifier.

I compared the DS1510 to the DS1501 and noticed the 1510 has more excursion and higher power handling. This leads me to believe the DS1510 is a superior driver to the DS1501. Am I nitpicking too much or would looking at dual F15HP's instead of dual F25's be an overall better route? Or will the F25 beat out an F15HP?

Just dotting all my i's and crossing all my t's. Also sent my question to Rythmik, see what they say.

Thanks!

The DS1510 has more xmax but you would need more power to take advantage of it. Maybe down the road Rythmik would offer an HP version of the F25 using the DS1510 drivers and a more powerful amp. But honestly I think you're just over thinking it. A single F25 would outperform a F15HP.
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post #15 of 61 Old 10-11-2013, 04:36 AM - Thread Starter
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Ok, thanks.

Just sort of triple checking at this point. A friend who has owed me money for quite a bit of time now might be paying me next week, so I may have the dual F25's quicker than expected biggrin.gif
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post #16 of 61 Old 10-11-2013, 04:48 AM
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I would try one first, unless you save on shipping by ordering them at the same time. you might not need duals after all:) The delivery man will thank you for ordering one at first smile.gif
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post #17 of 61 Old 10-11-2013, 05:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCoolJesus View Post

Sooooo.....I was about to order the first F25 tonight but wanted to do a little more digging to make sure I am certain this is the right route (i.e. - double checking Seaton and JTR). But I also found myself double checking the Rythmik website and noticed that the F25 uses the DS1501 driver with a 800w amplifier (400w per woofer), while the F15HP (the sealed 15", not the vented) uses the DS1510 driver with 600w amplifier.

I compared the DS1510 to the DS1501 and noticed the 1510 has more excursion and higher power handling. This leads me to believe the DS1510 is a superior driver to the DS1501. Am I nitpicking too much or would looking at dual F15HP's instead of dual F25's be an overall better route? Or will the F25 beat out an F15HP?

Just dotting all my i's and crossing all my t's. Also sent my question to Rythmik, see what they say.

Thanks!

You cant be serious?
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post #18 of 61 Old 10-11-2013, 06:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCoolJesus View Post

I compared the DS1510 to the DS1501 and noticed the 1510 has more excursion and higher power handling. This leads me to believe the DS1510 is a superior driver to the DS1501. Am I nitpicking too much or would looking at dual F15HP's instead of dual F25's be an overall better route? Or will the F25 beat out an F15HP?

The DS1510 is a more capable driver than the DS1501, but with two DS1501's on tap, each powered by a separate 400W amplifier channel, that adds 6dB over what a single could accomplish, and ultimately an additional 4dB over the DS1510 in the F15HP over the entire passband. IOW, you'd need a trio of F15HP's to match the output of a pair of F25s.
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post #19 of 61 Old 10-11-2013, 08:22 AM - Thread Starter
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You cant be serious?

......please don't hurt me redface.gif
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post #20 of 61 Old 10-11-2013, 08:46 AM
 
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......please don't hurt me redface.gif

What are your expectations with this purchase?
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post #21 of 61 Old 10-11-2013, 08:50 AM
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One F25 is +4dB louder than one F15HP. With two F15HPs stacked you will be around +2 dB over one F25. If you have two F15HPs collocated then one F25 get the advantage by +1dB. I think the F25 is your best choice.

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post #22 of 61 Old 10-11-2013, 08:50 AM
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Look an F25 is going to be very similar to the sub 2 max output at all frequencies. So two F25 would be like dual sub 2. Going off Rythmik data, quad F15HP will have +2db over dual F25. An F25 is the same as two F15 in one enclosure. Do we understand this?

Analysis Paralysis

I am done for now and will not comment on any more subwoofer comparisons. It on you at this point to make a decision, stick with it, and follow through.

I would like to know how the subs are when you get them. Since you saved all that dough, do yourself a solid and get some measurement equipment. It is essential if you want the best results. Many here willing to help out with measuring and any issue found with system once it can be properly diagnosed. smile.gif
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post #23 of 61 Old 10-11-2013, 08:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCoolJesus View Post

......please don't hurt me redface.gif

No no I understand, when it comes to spending a decent amount of money, one wants to ensure he/she is spending it wisely. I can assure you that going with a Rythmik product will be a good choice and the F15HP is not going to perform at the level of the F25. The Sub25 would be more comparable to the F15HP. The F25 will be comparable to the Sub 2, but you can get 2 of them for less than a Sub 2...which is why we walked down this avenue of subwoofer analysis. smile.gif
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post #24 of 61 Old 10-11-2013, 09:05 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

No no I understand, when it comes to spending a decent amount of money, one wants to ensure he/she is spending it wisely. I can assure you that going with a Rythmik product will be a good choice and the F15HP is not going to perform at the level of the F25. The Sub25 would be more comparable to the F15HP. The F25 will be comparable to the Sub 2, but you can get 2 of them for less than a Sub 2...which is why we walked down this avenue of subwoofer analysis. smile.gif

What about dual XS30s or a set of three XS15s?
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post #25 of 61 Old 10-11-2013, 09:19 AM
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Start your own thread bee!

If you look at data-base comapring xv an fv subs, and have an understanding of ported and vented, and interpret rythmik data, your answer will be apparent. Dual F 25 are a solid choice, don't complicate his decision that has been thoroughly covered!eek.gif
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post #26 of 61 Old 10-11-2013, 09:30 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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What about dual XS30s or a set of three XS15s?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke Kamp View Post

Start your own thread bee!

If you look at data-base comapring xv an fv subs, and have an understanding of ported and vented, and interpret rythmik data, your answer will be apparent. Dual F 25 are a solid choice, don't complicate his decision that has been thoroughly covered!eek.gif

I was going to say.....make it stop!

Literally placing the order for the first F25 now. No stopping me!
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I was going to say.....make it stop!

Make what stop? confused.gif The F25, F15HP, XS30 and the XS15's are all sealed subwoofers.

You're splitting hairs and slapping good questions aside? Reads like you're not as cool as you think you are.

-
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post #28 of 61 Old 10-11-2013, 10:06 AM
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I think the point is, the issue had been decided, just some last minute jitters...so more recommendations at that point just causes more jitters and second guessing.
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post #29 of 61 Old 10-11-2013, 10:26 AM
 
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I think the point is, the issue had been decided, just some last minute jitters...so more recommendations at that point just causes more jitters and second guessing.

It never hurts to say thanks and politely comment that a decision has been made for as of my responded to comment, there hadn't been any statement of a decision being made.

My problem, I've yet to adjust to rude being the new cool.
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post #30 of 61 Old 10-11-2013, 10:55 AM - Thread Starter
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It never hurts to say thanks and politely comment that a decision has been made for as of my responded to comment, there hadn't been any statement of a decision being made.

My problem, I've yet to adjust to rude being the new cool.

I was in no way trying to be rude. More of a "information meltdown" humorous comment I was trying to make. I even did some quick research of the PSA subs (again) when you made that post. But ultimately ended up sticking with the F25.

Order has been placed. Now comes the waiting game frown.gif

Thanks everyone for everything. I will be reporting my impressions once I get it setup and dialed in. First movie of choice will be Tron Legacy. Let's see how much I am wowed all over again when the first "transport" ship hovers over as soon as he is pixalated into Tron.
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