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Old 10-11-2013, 05:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Hello,

I was wondering, how do you go about getting the "feel" of subwoofer without turning the volume way up?

I'm a pretty health conscious person, and I don't want to turn the volume up to get the impact I want and damage my hearing etc.

I watch movies and listen to music at typical conversational levels etc.

Given a room of about 12 x 15 x 8, would it be possible to get the physical impact at the volume I mentioned above by using a 10 - 12 inch sub by Polk Audio, Klipsch, SVS, or HSU Research?

Or do you have to "crank" the volume to get the "slam."

Thank you in advance for your help and wisdom! smile.gif
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Old 10-11-2013, 05:56 PM
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Maybe consider a tactile inducer{butt kicker}
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Old 10-11-2013, 05:57 PM
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What do you mean by slam but no volume. Just watch tv. The distortion will seems like its loud but no volume. A high quality system will not sound loud with the volume waaay up, but it's clear and precise.
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Old 10-11-2013, 06:02 PM - Thread Starter
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By "slam," I mean actually feeling the pressure created by the subwoofer etc. I know if you turn up the volume you can "feel" the bass, but I was wondering if I got a large 10-12 inch sub, and kept the volume low in a small room, if I could get the impact I want without turning up the volume and damaging my hearing. Thanks!
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Old 10-11-2013, 06:04 PM - Thread Starter
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I have thought about the Buttkicker, but I was wanting to keep the cost down. Nonetheless, an elegant and impressive solution. Thanks! Hmmm... smile.gif
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Old 10-11-2013, 06:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmallvilleFan20 View Post

By "slam," I mean actually feeling the pressure created by the subwoofer etc. I know if you turn up the volume you can "feel" the bass, but I was wondering if I got a large 10-12 inch sub, and kept the volume low in a small room, if I could get the impact I want without turning up the volume and damaging my hearing. Thanks!

In a small, sealed room, you certainly can use a 12" sub to create tactile effects even at low output levels, especially if the sub is near the audience.
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Old 10-11-2013, 06:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmallvilleFan20 View Post

By "slam," I mean actually feeling the pressure created by the subwoofer etc. I know if you turn up the volume you can "feel" the bass, but I was wondering if I got a large 10-12 inch sub, and kept the volume low in a small room, if I could get the impact I want without turning up the volume and damaging my hearing. Thanks!

I have a room similar is size and a SVS PC12+. IMO ported will provide more "slam" a lower volumes just because it's ported and would be moving more air than a sealed unit at the same volume. That said, you're still going to have to turn it up high enough to create enough pressure to be able to feel it.

You could run the sub hot so the sub is much louder with respect to the other speakers so you can feel the sound instead of hear it. wink.gif
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Old 10-11-2013, 07:30 PM
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If your receiver has Audyssey Multeq or higher, Dynamic EQ does a good job of allowing you to feel the bass at lower volumes IMO. That along with a good sub from the companies you mentioned should deliver what your asking
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Old 10-11-2013, 07:39 PM
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Originally Posted by brian6751 View Post

If your receiver has Audyssey Multeq or higher, Dynamic EQ does a good job of allowing you to feel the bass at lower volumes IMO. That along with a good sub from the companies you mentioned should deliver what your asking

+1 to this
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Old 10-11-2013, 07:52 PM
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Originally Posted by datranz View Post

What do you mean by slam but no volume. Just watch tv. The distortion will seems like its loud but no volume. A high quality system will not sound loud with the volume waaay up, but it's clear and precise.

Spl's are spl's wink.gif
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Old 10-11-2013, 07:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmallvilleFan20 View Post

Hello,

I was wondering, how do you go about getting the "feel" of subwoofer without turning the volume way up?

I'm a pretty health conscious person, and I don't want to turn the volume up to get the impact I want and damage my hearing etc.

I watch movies and listen to music at typical conversational levels etc.

Given a room of about 12 x 15 x 8, would it be possible to get the physical impact at the volume I mentioned above by using a 10 - 12 inch sub by Polk Audio, Klipsch, SVS, or HSU Research?

Or do you have to "crank" the volume to get the "slam."

Thank you in advance for your help and wisdom! smile.gif

Get the one that has the lowest distortion and sealed and place it well, as for the selection SVS,HSU , Rythmik or PSA and you will be fine smile.gif
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Old 10-12-2013, 12:03 AM
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A 10 or 12 in. sub is not going to give you much tactile feel at conversation level. It may still sound good and add to the music or movie experience.
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Old 10-12-2013, 12:13 AM
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Originally Posted by derrickdj1 View Post

A 10 or 12 in. sub is not going to give you much tactile feel at conversation level. It may still sound good and add to the music or movie experience.

The same could be said of a 15-18-21 and 24" sub calibrated the same listening at a low MV level with not running your sub hot. A good 12" will give you plenty of feel in a room that size.
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Old 10-12-2013, 12:21 AM
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Basically you want clean spl, it's not the subs that's going to damage your hearing, it's your mains. Ears are more sensitive to the 1khz than the low fr. Any legit 20hz -3db will do in a small room.
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Old 10-12-2013, 12:45 AM
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Hello,

I was wondering, how do you go about getting the "feel" of subwoofer without turning the volume way up?

I'm a pretty health conscious person, and I don't want to turn the volume up to get the impact I want and damage my hearing etc.

I watch movies and listen to music at typical conversational levels etc.

Given a room of about 12 x 15 x 8, would it be possible to get the physical impact at the volume I mentioned above by using a 10 - 12 inch sub by Polk Audio, Klipsch, SVS, or HSU Research?

Or do you have to "crank" the volume to get the "slam."

Thank you in advance for your help and wisdom! smile.gif

Your room is less than 1500 cu ft and will provide ample room gain. With careful placement of any good 12" sub, you will have ample output in 30Hz-60Hz region to give you that chest slam. Just run your sub 4-5dB hotter than the mains and you can have the same impact at lower volumes as you would at high. It's all relative.

As regards the sub choice; I'd suggest ported. Call it my bias.
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Old 10-12-2013, 01:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Kini62 View Post

IMO ported will provide more "slam" a lower volumes just because it's ported and would be moving more air than a sealed unit at the same volume.

I'm no expert but this seems like it must be untrue. Doesn't "the same volume" imply 'moving the same amount of air?'

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Old 10-12-2013, 01:46 AM
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Doesn't "the same volume" imply 'moving the same amount of air?'

A ported sub has a lot higher output at or near its tuning frequency keeping all things equal (Amplification, Driver Size, Internal Box Volume). It takes at least twice as many subs to match the output of a ported sub near its tuning frequency.
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Old 10-12-2013, 07:19 AM
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Originally Posted by braveheart123 View Post

A ported sub has a lot higher output at or near its tuning frequency keeping all things equal (Amplification, Driver Size, Internal Box Volume). It takes at least twice as many subs to match the output of a ported sub near its tuning frequency.

Ok, but that's answering a very different question.

Oh, I see where you got confused. Here "volume" isn't referring to the cubic measure of the cabinet's interior, it's referring to output, amplitude, SPL. I thought I heard Kini say that a ported sub will have more "slam" by virtue of having more air displacement at a given output level than a similarly equipped sealed sub; I was questioning whether this can actually be possible, given what "slam" and output really are.

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Old 10-12-2013, 07:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Kini62 View Post

.....You could run the sub hot so the sub is much louder with respect to the other speakers so you can feel the sound instead of hear it. wink.gif

+1

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Old 10-12-2013, 07:43 AM
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Unfortunately there is no good way to keep a balanced sound AND a tactile sensation at conversation levels (which I assume you mean to be 65 - 70db). In my experience you need to start hitting at least 85db or so before you can feel the sensation in your body.You can crank the sub volume up, but then the bass is going to overwhelm everything else and sound unnatural...some people might like that, but it won't be anywhere near a flat response. You can place a sub or MBM directly behind your seating position in a near field setup and can cheat things a little to lower the needed volume, or as others have said you can get a buttkicker to do basically the same thing. Those solutions will create some vibration, but not a pressurization...for that to happen there is only one thing, and that is brute force SPL.
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Old 10-12-2013, 07:43 AM
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I was questioning whether this can actually be possible, given what "slam" and output really are.

Chest slam is 30Hz-60Hz area. Ported, Sealed, Bandpass, or any other alignment can offer similar output in the chest slam region keeping every other thing constant.

Ported sub has max output near or at its tuning frequency, below which it drops like a brick. Above the tuning frequency, a sealed sub can match the output of a ported one with the help of room gain coz of its shallow roll-off.
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Old 10-12-2013, 07:59 AM
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I think too much can be made of the sealed vs. ported. The ported has the advantage of being able to play a little louder (given a similar design with the same driver and amp), the sealed has the advantage of being able to go lower. Most DBT have shown listeners can't tell by sound within a certain frequency range if a sub is ported or sealed...although servo controlled subs tend to have a more identifiable sound. So it comes down to max SPL vs. Max depth. For the OP max SPL is not an issue, so ported vs. sealed has no bearing on what would be best for him.
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Old 10-12-2013, 08:12 AM
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Originally Posted by braveheart123 View Post

Chest slam is 30Hz-60Hz area. Ported, Sealed, Bandpass, or any other alignment can offer similar output in the chest slam region keeping every other thing constant.

Ported sub has max output near or at its tuning frequency, below which it drops like a brick. Above the tuning frequency, a sealed sub can match the output of a ported one with the help of room gain coz of its shallow roll-off.

Ok smile.gif Thanks, but what I said to Kini meant this: SPL is SPL, so a ported sub producing output at a given level will displace the same amount of air as a sealed sub at that output level.

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Old 10-12-2013, 08:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Audiophile2k View Post

I think too much can be made of the sealed vs. ported. The ported has the advantage of being able to play a little louder (given a similar design with the same driver and amp), the sealed has the advantage of being able to go lower. Most DBT have shown listeners can't tell by sound within a certain frequency range if a sub is ported or sealed...although servo controlled subs tend to have a more identifiable sound. So it comes down to max SPL vs. Max depth. For the OP max SPL is not an issue, so ported vs. sealed has no bearing on what would be best for him.

Well, I think the rolloff characteristic typical of large sealed subs has a significantly different sound in a small room than a similar sized ported sub; generally the bigger ported subs are tuned to have a flat response down to a point, and then to roll off pretty quickly. This is of course very different from a typical sealed rolloff.

Assuming there's no outboard response shaping like the more sophisticated versions of Audyssey, or MiniDSP or something like that, the gain in a small room can make the flat-curved ported sub sound fat and heavy in the bottom end, and it can make the sealed sub sound lean and detailed in the same region.

So in that sense the alignment you choose could be very important to the way your bass sounds. Mind you, I'm not theorizing about this; it's a difference I observe in my own space.

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Old 10-12-2013, 08:27 AM
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the gain in a small room can make the flat-curved ported sub sound fat and heavy in the bottom end, and it can make the sealed sub sound lean and detailed in the same region.

+1, and that will be around the tuning frequency

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Old 10-12-2013, 08:35 AM
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+1 to Select ability smile.gif

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Old 10-12-2013, 08:39 AM
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Good catch biggrin.gif

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Old 10-12-2013, 08:39 AM
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Originally Posted by SaviorMachine View Post

Ok smile.gif Thanks, but what I said to Kini meant this: SPL is SPL, so a ported sub producing output at a given level will displace the same amount of air as a sealed sub at that output level.
You will get more air coming out of the port that fans your leg if it is a front port design. Can't get that with seal- one of the reason I prefer vented sub.
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Old 10-12-2013, 08:40 AM
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Of course, as with all things it depends on the exact example in question. Most of the commonly recommended sub makers in this forum do not use such an approach as you describe. Most will have a similar curve between their ported and sealed (not exact, but very similar) when measured in the same environment. You can also check some of the blind listening results from the sub shootouts...usually none of the members were able to tell just by sound quality which type of sub they were listening to.
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Old 10-12-2013, 08:42 AM
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You will get more air coming out of the port that fans your leg if it is a front port design. Can't get that with seal- one of the reason I prefer vented sub.

Not correct. A sealed one moves as much air off the driver surface area. It is just that the ported will be very efficient and sealed will have to rely on its amplifier, room gain, and may be EQ boost down low

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