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post #181 of 249 Old 01-23-2014, 11:15 PM
 
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Lmao... I knew it! I was going to suggest you try a new receiver, until I got to this post. Get a new receiver like an onkyo 818 with xt32 on it. It will tame that sub and it will sound nice and tight...
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post #182 of 249 Old 01-24-2014, 12:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Goat1 View Post

Lmao... I knew it! I was going to suggest you try a new receiver, until I got to this post. Get a new receiver like an onkyo 818 with xt32 on it. It will tame that sub and it will sound nice and tight...

You don't think his Onkyo 5010 has XT32?

So much for the vaunted CA 751R.....commysysman is going to be very unhappy wink.gif
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post #183 of 249 Old 01-24-2014, 03:37 AM
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Originally Posted by eljaycanuck View Post

2. Props to you for offering to pay Brian for the replacement amp + shipping. cool.gif

+1
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post #184 of 249 Old 01-24-2014, 04:23 AM - Thread Starter
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CA is a big joke in AV industry. I think they should be banned or at least educated what bass management is. Anyway, I don't use XT32 and SubEQ HT. I only use DynamicEQ function. For bass duties, I prefer keeping things in my hand.

History is written by those who have hanged heroes ...

The best EQ is no EQ ...

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post #185 of 249 Old 01-24-2014, 08:41 AM
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Brave, try 1 port mode. I know you have been insistent on using the max output 2 port mode. The max output mode has a lot more ringing than the 1 port mode. Two port mode is designed for customers wanting very "full-body" bass (the opposite of sealed subs). If you want to get FV15HP sound close to a sealed sub, 1 port mode high damping is what I benchmarked against our F15HP. From all of your posts, I figure you like clear and articulate sound, and part of that is related to the ringing in the impulse response. In addition, the lower you play, the more complete sound stage you can hear. We have this extension mode switch for over 10 years now. What the switch does for us is to increase the sound stage depth and height. Some customers can hear that and I am pretty sure you are one of them.
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post #186 of 249 Old 01-24-2014, 11:10 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Rythmik View Post

Brave, try 1 port mode. I know you have been insistent on using the max output 2 port mode. The max output mode has a lot more ringing than the 1 port mode. Two port mode is designed for customers wanting very "full-body" bass (the opposite of sealed subs). If you want to get FV15HP sound close to a sealed sub, 1 port mode high damping is what I benchmarked against our F15HP. From all of your posts, I figure you like clear and articulate sound, and part of that is related to the ringing in the impulse response. In addition, the lower you play, the more complete sound stage you can hear. We have this extension mode switch for over 10 years now. What the switch does for us is to increase the sound stage depth and height. Some customers can hear that and I am pretty sure you are one of them.

Hi Brian, thanks for your help. Rythmik has that IT factor that I was looking for. As I told you before, the problem was with my AVR. With the new AVR, the sub is performing as I wanted it to. I know Low Damping engages the steepest HPF slope, which jacks up GD thus causing ringing. But even with all this, your engineering is spot on. Bravo!!!

I will try all the options. I'm just caught up so much in work that um hardly finding time to run it through paces.

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post #187 of 249 Old 01-24-2014, 07:46 PM
 
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No the Cambridge.
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post #188 of 249 Old 02-02-2014, 10:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Now that it's been quite some time I've spent with Rythmik; here are my thoughts. I'll keep it brief and to the point.

THE GOOD
- It is a fantastic sub FOR THE MONEY.
- Staggering amount of power.
- Tons of intuitive configurations.
- Good sized box, not too big to be branded as eye sore even in my tiny room (1700 cu ft)
- 5 star for fantastic high gloss paint job.
- ZERO box resonance.

THE BAD
- Now this is purely subjective as my main preference is high output in the audible frequency range BUT with accuracy. My use is purely movies. While this sub belts out some serious energy (2 ports / 14Hz / Rumble Filter On / Low Damping / LFE Input / Limiter Off), the steep slope associated with low damping jacks up Group Delay way too much for my liking and gives away accuracy. GD jumps North of 70 ms at around 20Hz, which is a bit too much for my taste. I found it a bit mushy and muddled with those settings. While High and Mid damping make up for this shortcoming, but they also reduce the output in the ULF region.
- All other settings are useless for me. Although, I have great depth down to 12Hz with (1 port plugged / 14Hz / Rumble Filter Off / (High/Mid) Damping / Limiter Off), but that was never my requirement.

The Ugly
- None

My Final Thoughts
If were to do it all over again, I'd go for JTR OS LFU if size was no constraint. Alternatively, PSB SubSeries 500 would be my top choice. That is the most accurate sub in audible frequency range I've ever heard, deceptively loud for its size, and deadly accurate. While Rythmik is a great sub, it just didn't cut it for me.

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The best EQ is no EQ ...

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post #189 of 249 Old 02-03-2014, 02:46 AM
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^^ Regardless of the sub, that’s some real honesty I can respect. I notice on a daily bases when the tune goes down, GD rises in most cases and wants to rise. Add a filter, higher yet.

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post #190 of 249 Old 02-03-2014, 07:11 AM
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Indeed, thanks for the great and honest review.

While there is a good chance I will still end up getting a pair of the Rythmik's, it's good to know there may be a downfall or 2.

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post #191 of 249 Old 02-03-2014, 08:11 AM
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Braveheart, sorry if I missed, but do you have group delay graphs of your room with the Rythmik and PSB? It would be interesting to understand your preference through the lens of that data.

 

It will also let other have some more insight to potentially help improve your situation.

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post #192 of 249 Old 02-03-2014, 11:20 AM - Thread Starter
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Here is GD measured at 6" from cone center with 2 ports open / 14Hz / Low damping / LFE Input / Limiter Off / Rumble Filter On



It's even higher at MLP

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post #193 of 249 Old 02-03-2014, 11:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by braveheart123 View Post

Here is GD measured at 6" from cone center with 2 ports open / 14Hz / Low damping / LFE Input / Limiter Off / Rumble Filter On



It's even higher at MLP

All ported subs will result in group delay. It's the nature of the beast.
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post #194 of 249 Old 02-03-2014, 12:49 PM - Thread Starter
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I know that, but anything above 50 ms @ 20Hz is a lot for me. And, at the same time, anything below 35 ms @ 20H is way too tight for me. It is the steep slope associated with Low Damping (HPF Slope) in this sub, which jacks up GD way too much. I build mine with GD not exceeding 50 ms. For me ideal is between 40-45 ms max, which doesn't give away accuracy while still ensuring high output.

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post #195 of 249 Old 02-03-2014, 01:03 PM
 
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I know nothing about GD. What's GD and how am I being hosed by it and what is it trying to tell me?

MLP: 200ms at 11Hz. 55ms at 20Hz. 477ms on the peak at 50Hz.

Group Delay, No Smoothing



Spectrogram



Graph, No Smoothing



Regarding GD, what is my takeaway suppose to be?

...confused.gif

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post #196 of 249 Old 02-03-2014, 01:06 PM
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This in no way is intended to come across as snarky. I could just about take any driver and sim it up showing you what happens regarding my prior post. Of course there is no doubt that ID takes this into account and battles against it the best they can.. but like with all design's, it’s all about compromises to one degree or another. It’s a ardent fact.. The bummer is in choosing a driver coupled with the design might be good in one area, but then it brings up another problem in another area all to often. Coming up with the perfect combination is a impossibility because it can’t be so. A guy/Co. can only do the best they can can taking everything into account.

EDIT> Bee you just posted, this is not a arrow directed towards you.



.

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post #197 of 249 Old 02-03-2014, 01:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steve nn View Post

This in no way is intended to come across as snarky. I could just about take any driver and sim it up showing you what happens regarding my prior post. Of course there is no doubt that ID takes this into account and battles against it the best they can.. but like with all design's, it’s all about compromises to one degree or another. It’s a ardent fact.. The bummer is in choosing a driver coupled with the design might be good in one area, but then it brings up another problem in another area all to often. Coming up with the perfect combination is a impossibility because it can’t be so. A guy/Co. can only do the best they can can taking everything into account.

.

+1

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post #198 of 249 Old 02-03-2014, 01:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

I know nothing about GD. What's GD and how am I being hosed by it and what is it trying to tell me?

200ms at 11Hz. 55ms at 20Hz. 477ms on the peak at 50Hz.

Group Delay, No Smoothing



Spectrogram



Graph, No Smoothing



Regarding GD, what is my takeaway suppose to be?

...confused.gif

GD in your case is low at 20Hz for the very reason that you are using your subs in 1 port / 14Hz / High damping. It is most discernible 30Hz and below. At 30Hz it is still below 25 ms. In my case (2 ports open / 14Hz / Low damping / Rumble Filter On), it is around 45 ms even at 30Hz, which is high. Hence the reason for less accurate response in 20Hz-31.5Hz region, though it does offer high output.

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The best EQ is no EQ ...

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post #199 of 249 Old 02-03-2014, 01:36 PM
 
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And what is an ignorant like me to takeaway from the above information?

(the above information is based on two FV15HPs banging away in the room)

And is that 50Hz peak suppose to concern me or is that just part of life?

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post #200 of 249 Old 02-03-2014, 01:49 PM
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(the above information is based on two FV15HPs banging away in the room) And is that 50Hz peak suppose to concern me or is that just part of life?

This is directed at you Bee.. Like in many of your posts you have a knack of making blanket statements that supposedly is supposed to translate out to be the experience of all the rest of the members.

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post #201 of 249 Old 02-03-2014, 01:51 PM - Thread Starter
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And what is an ignorant like me to takeaway from the above information?

(the above information is based on two FV15HPs banging away in the room)

And is that 50Hz peak suppose to concern me or is that just part of life?

We all are ignorant one way or the other biggrin.gif Anyway, GD is related to accuracy. It is most noticeable in the 20-31.5hz region and is directly proportional to output and inversely proportional to accuracy.

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The best EQ is no EQ ...

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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

(the above information is based on two FV15HPs banging away in the room)

And is that 50Hz peak suppose to concern me or is that just part of life?

Quote:
Originally Posted by steve nn View Post

This is directed at you Bee.. Like in many of your posts you have a knack of making blanket statements that supposedly is supposed to translate out to be the experience of all the rest of the members.

I have no idea what you're reading but that's not what the above quote is communicating. Nothing in it refers to anybody else. confused.gif Everything in my above refers only to my personal experiences and nobody else's.

...confused.gif

If I might suggest, read the quote, with my above comment in mind.

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post #203 of 249 Old 02-03-2014, 01:56 PM
 
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Originally Posted by braveheart123 View Post

We all are ignorant one way or the other biggrin.gif Anyway, GD is related to accuracy. It is most noticeable in the 20-31.5hz region and is directly proportional to output and inversely proportional to accuracy.

I'm okay with being ignorant. I was born ignorant and the more I learn, the more ignorant I become. I really do hate that point. tongue.gif

Without killing yourself, could you elaborate a bit more on GD and what it is.

I got the accuracy part and as the volume goes up, GD is increased but what am I suppose to notice?
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post #204 of 249 Old 02-03-2014, 01:59 PM - Thread Starter
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This is for Bee;




This is single FV in my room with 1 port plugged / 14Hz / Rumble FIlter and Limiter Off / High Damping. On paper this looks amazing but GD is 23 ms at 20Hz, which means it is way too tight for my taste and I have to sacrifice full bodied sound. That I can't wink.gif

A flat FR is only half the battle wink.gif

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post #205 of 249 Old 02-03-2014, 02:02 PM
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Quote:
A suggestion, try reading the quote, without your bias' in mind.

Your wrong there also. I just try to look at things from all angles. I run a low tuned sub now (although dual PR) and many in the past. Do you think my Avatar sub came in at a 25hz tune? (The room has a effect amongst other things) What I’m trying to get at is it comes down to choices and what you consider or experience doesn’t have any bearing what-so-ever on the general facts of the matter. I can beat my sub up just as easily as yours if your taking things that way.

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post #206 of 249 Old 02-03-2014, 02:05 PM
 
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Originally Posted by steve nn View Post

I can beat my sub up just as easily as yours if your taking things that way.

Let's start over. I am totally clueless what you're referring to as the comment you quoted was in response to a comment made by braveheart123 and at no time was it in response to any of your comments.

...confused.gif

All of my comments were directed toward the measurements of mine that I posted so braveheart123 could see what I was working with.

...confused.gif

Who's beating up their subs? I wasn't beating up my subs. I don't know anybody who's beating up their subs.

...confused.gif

All I did was ask a question of another forum member and all of a sudden I'm in an argument and don't know why?

...surrendering-emoticon-animated-white-waving-flag.gif

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post #207 of 249 Old 02-03-2014, 02:08 PM - Thread Starter
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GD is all about how tight or loose the bass response is. It is not the function of volume or loudness.

A useful write up on GD;
http://www.audiodesignguide.com/Sub/SIGroupDelay.pdf

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The best EQ is no EQ ...

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post #208 of 249 Old 02-03-2014, 02:11 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by braveheart123 View Post

A useful write up on GD;
http://www.audiodesignguide.com/Sub/SIGroupDelay.pdf

Thanks!

(oh boy. more homework)

...tongue.gif
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post #209 of 249 Old 02-03-2014, 02:24 PM
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Quote:
Who's beating up their subs? I wasn't beating up my subs. I don't know anybody who's beating up their subs.

I see you edited your post, but I copied prior. I’m not going to get into bias because I already addressed it. Lets just move on if that’s Ok with you? I don’t want to derail Braves thread..

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post #210 of 249 Old 02-03-2014, 02:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Come on guys.......cheer up. I should be the one pulling my hair biggrin.gif

History is written by those who have hanged heroes ...

The best EQ is no EQ ...

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Main System: Klipsch RF-82 II, Klipsch RC-62 II, RS-52 II, Onkyo 5010, Rythmik FV15HP, PSB S300
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