2 svs sb12-nsd or 1 hsu uls-15 ? - AVS Forum
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Old 10-17-2013, 06:24 AM - Thread Starter
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my room is 15x20, looking for opinions for these 2 set ups, 2 svs sb12-nsd or 1 hsu uls-15, price is the same. I am mostly interested in their music performance, but will use some for ht, thanks
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Old 10-17-2013, 07:43 AM
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I would go dual sb12's.
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Old 10-17-2013, 01:12 PM
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I agree, dual SB12's over a single ULS-15.
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Old 10-17-2013, 01:57 PM
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If you can do a tiny bit of assembly, you might also look at dual Dayton Titanic 4 kits. They will have more displacement than either the ULS or dual SB12s, and so will likely have more output than either, especially in the low end. The ULS is no joke though, as far as output goes I bet it would take at least a pair of SB12s to match a single ULS-15. For the best performance, get a ULS now and add another one later.
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Old 10-17-2013, 04:30 PM
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Of those 2 choices, dual SB12s.

If you're looking at one sealed sub look also at the Rythmik F15HP or the PSA XS15. Or even a PC12+ and run it in sealed mode. SVS has one in the outlet store for $1049.
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Old 10-18-2013, 03:38 PM
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I own dual svs sb12's, I received them a couple weeks ago for a 2.2 music only system, while they are awesome subs, I think there is a better option for an HT system....  I just don't feel they have the raw output I would want in a medium to large room ht setup...

 

I would go for dual HSU vtf2's.. http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/vtf-2mk4.html  I also own 2 of these and you will be happier with the movie experience for sure, with the tuneable enclosure you can find a good balance between music and movie...   I have listened to many subs, and its the way to go, the svs 12's are awesome and for music they absolutely rock the room, for HT I want output and clarity, and the vtf2's fit the bill, I have two of them in my living room and I only use 1 unless I am going to watch an action movie and want to get really into it..  I can n ot picture the room 2 vtf2's can't over power, I demoed it with 5 other subs and it beat them all including the vtf3, I also recently bought my mother a rythmic lv12 hoping that would compete with the vtf2 and it couldn't....

Also one of the only other subs I have heard that is more musical than the svs12's is the uls15, one of my favorite subs of all time, BUT dual subs always beats a single, I don't know why but its just the way it is....   Anyway take a serious look at the vtf2, demo them all and you will see the vtf 2 stays and the others go back, I have been there, it is an amazing subwoofer...

 

some pics incase, you are thinking "how does this guy listen to all these subs" lol...

dual svs sb 12's in piano, Ed gave me a great deal on the pair, they are gorgeous speakers and the grills are heavy duty, very fast and musical...

below is the rythmic lv12 I bought for my mothers living room.

last pic is of the vtf2's in my living room

 

 

 

edit-cant seem to get the vtf pic to load...


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Old 10-18-2013, 03:53 PM
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(I bet you mean SB12s)
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Old 10-18-2013, 04:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaviorMachine View Post

(I bet you mean SB12s)

 

What are you talking about?

 

 

 

 

 

 I fixed it, now your post just makes you look crazy, lol, I always get them messed up PB is PORTED,  SB sealed, Ed corrected me 20 times when I was ordering them, I think he thought I was trying to trick him...


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Old 10-18-2013, 04:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imcloud View Post

What are you talking about?







 I fixed it, now your post just makes you look crazy, lol, I always get them messed up PB is PORTED,  SB sealed, Ed corrected me 20 times when I was ordering them, I think he thought I was trying to trick him...

The QB always throws me off. frown.gifsmile.gif

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Old 10-18-2013, 11:57 PM
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I own two PC12-NSd's ( the cylindrical version of the sub's you're looking at ) and they sound excellent for music ( nice and tight ) and ridiculous to the point of being silly for home theater - and I mean that in the very best kind of way. Pick up a pair of the SVS and forget about it.
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Old 10-19-2013, 12:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean Spamilton View Post

I own two PC12-NSd's ( the cylindrical version of the sub's you're looking at ) and they sound excellent for music ( nice and tight ) and ridiculous to the point of being silly for home theater - and I mean that in the very best kind of way. Pick up a pair of the SVS and forget about it.

the op is looking at the sb12nsd which is sealed.
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Old 10-19-2013, 12:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

the op is looking at the sb12nsd which is sealed.

Oh my mistake tongue.gif I'm just chomping at the bit to show off the fact that I've got dual PC12's now I guess. I suspect that the SB12's would be great as well, but honestly, at least with these cylinders ( and take this for what it's worth with regards to it's subjectivity, or lack thereof ) - they're so tight I don't know why someone would go for a sealed box. I probably don't have enough perspective on the matter if I'm being honest. Haven't good ported subs closed the gap to sealed subs with regards to musicality? at least that's what I read somewhere. And it was on the internet so it must be true. biggrin.gif
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Old 10-19-2013, 12:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean Spamilton View Post

Oh my mistake tongue.gif I'm just chomping at the bit to show off the fact that I've got dual PC12's now I guess. I suspect that the SB12's would be great as well, but honestly, at least with these cylinders ( and take this for what it's worth with regards to it's subjectivity, or lack thereof ) - they're so tight I don't know why someone would go for a sealed box. I probably don't have enough perspective on the matter if I'm being honest. Haven't good ported subs closed the gap to sealed subs with regards to musicality? at least that's what I read somewhere. And it was on the internet so it must be true. biggrin.gif

A well designed vented sub is good for HT as well as music imo and many others for that matter. The sub you speak of is a well designed sub.

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Old 10-19-2013, 04:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean Spamilton View Post


Oh my mistake tongue.gif I'm just chomping at the bit to show off the fact that I've got dual PC12's now I guess. I suspect that the SB12's would be great as well, but honestly, at least with these cylinders ( and take this for what it's worth with regards to it's subjectivity, or lack thereof ) - they're so tight I don't know why someone would go for a sealed box. I probably don't have enough perspective on the matter if I'm being honest. Haven't good ported subs closed the gap to sealed subs with regards to musicality? at least that's what I read somewhere. And it was on the internet so it must be true. biggrin.gif

I don't know, I guess maybe it depends on your mains, I would imagine you want your subs as fast as your mains, I know I compared the pb12 and sb12 {in my home} and the PB had more output, but the sb was noticeably tighter and faster than it.  Kind of like the writing on the wall says, Ported is good for ht and sealed good for music, I have seen plenty of ht's with sealed subs but not many music only systems with a ported...


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Old 10-19-2013, 07:43 AM
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No. 4 is a pretty good read. http://web.archive.org/web/20080416034852/http://www.audiopulse.com/know-how/subwoofer-driver-guide/myths-about-subwoofers/

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Old 10-20-2013, 05:51 PM
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I'm not so sure this is as clear cut as everyone seems to think...

CEA 2010 RESULTS - 2M ground plane

2x SB12's (co-located)
25hz: 102.3 dB
63hz: 113.6 dB

ULS-15
25hz: 104.2 dB
63hz: 112.6 dB

2x SB12 CEA 2010 ratings are found by adding 6dB's to the SB-12 numbers data-bass.com for a dual co-located setup.
ULS-15 numbers are found on the HSU research site, then subtracting 9 dB's for a difference in CEA 2010 methodology. A direct comparison of HSU and data-bass.com results can be found for the VTF-15, where the results have a 9dB difference consistently across the CEA 2010 range (+/- 1dB).

In summary... No one should be able to argue that a ULS-15 subjectively sounds worse than a SB12 and the numbers are very comparable in terms of output. So now we're talking one sub vs. two from a WAF perspective, the ULS-15 being $175 cheaper shipped, and if you found yourself wanting more or adding on later, you'd have to purchase two more SB12's (brining it to 4 total) compared to a ULS-15 DualDrive (while being $350 or more cheaper). You also get balanced inputs in addition to wireless setup (if you can get it to work) with the ULS-15.

I'm not sure how a person can argue against the ULS-15 here, unless you would separate the SB12's to smooth out response... but you'd also lose 3dB's in terms of output.
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Old 10-20-2013, 06:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JackOften View Post

I'm not so sure this is as clear cut as everyone seems to think...

CEA 2010 RESULTS - 2M ground plane

2x SB12's (co-located)
25hz: 102.3 dB
63hz: 113.6 dB

ULS-15
25hz: 104.2 dB
63hz: 112.6 dB

2x SB12 CEA 2010 ratings are found by adding 6dB's to the SB-12 numbers data-bass.com for a dual co-located setup.
ULS-15 numbers are found on the HSU research site, then subtracting 9 dB's for a difference in CEA 2010 methodology. A direct comparison of HSU and data-bass.com results can be found for the VTF-15, where the results have a 9dB difference consistently across the CEA 2010 range (+/- 1dB).

In summary... No one should be able to argue that a ULS-15 subjectively sounds worse than a SB12 and the numbers are very comparable in terms of output. So now we're talking one sub vs. two from a WAF perspective, the ULS-15 being $175 cheaper shipped, and if you found yourself wanting more or adding on later, you'd have to purchase two more SB12's (brining it to 4 total) compared to a ULS-15 DualDrive (while being $350 or more cheaper). You also get balanced inputs in addition to wireless setup (if you can get it to work) with the ULS-15.

I'm not sure how a person can argue against the ULS-15 here, unless you would separate the SB12's to smooth out response... but you'd also lose 3dB's in terms of output.

I suspect that the OP would not co-locate the dual subs and go for smoother in room response. In that case wouldn't you subtract 3db's from those numbers? Either way I would still take the dual SB's for a music focused system. The main advantage of the ULS-15 would be below 25hz. Dual drive ULS-15 would be even better though at that point you can also consider Rythmik if you wanted to purchase one and add a second later
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