Looking for a new sub (or 2?) - AVS Forum
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Old 10-26-2013, 02:43 AM - Thread Starter
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So, I am looking to buy a new sub - or perhaps two depending on opinions.

 

The room this is for is in a basement 18x18x8, but with 2 of the 18' sides (adjacent - think "L") open. One wall opens to another 18x18. Then the adjacent wall opens to a back area of 18x15. I am considering putting some kind of curtains or something to help block light and (some) sound when watching movies. But, nothing solid.

 

The usage mix would probably be TV/Movies 90%, music 10% - though it's possible there might be some gaming in there [hoping to move the gaming systems to the area behind - 18x15].

 

I just purchased a Pioneer Elite SC-71 receiver to drive everything  - perhaps overkill, but it was (I thought so at least) a pretty good deal.

 

The main speakers currently (though I am looking to replace these as well) are some really old (17-18 yrs) Bose direct/indirect for front/back, and an Eosone for the center. [Suggestions for good replacements for these would be appreciated as well - not really set on a budget for these yet, but thinking in the $500-$1000 range]

 

Now for the sub, I am looking at the $600 range. I know that there are amazing subs in the $1000 range, but gotta set some limits.

 

Anyway, I am not sure between the following options:

 

1)1 x Definitive Tech Supercube 2000 - $600 retail, but possible available for $480

http://www.definitivetech.com/products/supercube-2000

 

2)2 x Klipsch Sub 12HG - $300 each, $600 total.

http://www.amazon.com/Klipsch-Sub-12HG-Synergy-300-Watt-Subwoofer/dp/B003VIWK0G/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1382774451&sr=8-7&keywords=polk+sub+12

[can't find it on the Klipsch website, am thinking it's discontinued]

 

3)1 x SVS PB1000 - $500

http://www.svsound.com/subwoofers/ported-box/pb-1000#.Umt30n4o5hE

 

4)1 x Rythmik LV12R - $590

http://www.rythmikaudio.com/LV12R.html

 

5)1 x HSU VTF-2 - $560

http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/vtf-2mk4.html

 

 

The DefTech sub seems to be a very good price for a very powerful speaker, but not sure as to the quality.

The Klipsch setup would give me 2 subs to better fill out the room, but these seem *really* cheap.

The other 3 seem to get really good reviews on here, but being ID only, I haven't really seen or heard these.

And, there's the whole 2 sub vs 1 sub issue.

 

Any thoughts/input/ranking would be appreciated.

 

 

Thanks

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Old 10-26-2013, 05:54 AM
 
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Based on your above, of those in your list, look to the Rythmik LV12R.

One that didn't make it to your list, the SVS SB12-NSD.

A couple of points, folks have a tendency to want a $6k subwoofer sound reproduction for <$1,000.00. Folks also want smooth sounding base and don't take the time to learn about room acoustics and how room acoustics impact the performance characteristics of their subwoofer sound reproduction system.

My recommendation, if you haven't already, would be to take the time to look into REW and learn about measuring your room's acoustics so you can dial in and get the best out of what ever you choose to buy. I would also recommend, at a later time and date, considering the purchase of a second or third subwoofer. As you learn more about the interaction of a subwoofer and a room's acoustics, my above will make more sense as subwoofer sound waves don't play and get along well with each other and depending on a room's acoustics, it could go either way as to reinforcing or cancelling a subwoofer produced sound wave. Neither of which, are good. One doesn't buy a second, third or fourth subwoofer to play it loud (although not a bad idea) but instead they buy to smooth out the room modes so one has flat, even subwoofer reproduced sound in each of the room's listening positions.

Good luck with what ever you choose to purchase.
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Old 10-26-2013, 06:09 AM
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From those subs I would go with either the VTF2 or LV12r. Another sub you might consider in that price range is the Dayton Titanic 12" kit. It does take a tiny bit of assembly, but the driver will be superior to that of any of the subs you listed. The other subs will have greater output around their tuning point, around 20 Hz for most of those, but above that and below that I think you could expect superior performance from the Dayton.

Another choice which might make more sense given the size of your space is the Premier Acoustics PA-150. It doesn't do much below 30 hz, but above 40 Hz it offers some pretty massive output. Some of the other subs can dig deeper, but who cares if you won't be able to hear them, which could very well be the case in a space of the size you will be putting them in. With the PA-150, that won't be nearly as much of a concern.

As for front stage speakers for $500 to $1k, for some pretty big bang for the buck, you might also check out kits here as well. Three of these Dayton RS722s would be a nice front stage, and clock in a hair over $1k shipped. Three of these Seas Loki Coaxials would come in to just under $1k shipped. Those are both very easy kits though, and you can achieve a much bigger bang for your buck if you are willing to take on a little bit more elbow grease, where you can get one of these SEOS waveguide kits, which will basically give you a commercial cinema type of sound. The same holds true for subwoofers, this driver+flatpack plus this amp gets you far more firepower than any assembled or kit sub, and it is under $600 shipped.
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Old 10-29-2013, 01:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for your replies guys. I was kind of hoping for a few more opinions on this.

 

Looks like from my list, both of you would lean towards the 1 LV12R.

 

That Dayton kits looks interesting. Does anyone else have any comments/experience with that sub?

I'd have no problem putting that sub together - if it's worth it. Would it outperform 2 of those Klipsch subs?

The reason I was even thinking about going with the 2 x subs might be a better way to go was exactly to help smooth out the sound across the area.

 

..which leads me directly to :

I am well aware that this is a big area. And I don't expect the sub(s) to fill the entire area. I just want to be able to enjoy movies (and music) in the TV area, as much as possible given the budget. Obviously, if I designed the room with air baffles, sound absorbing walls, and dropped in a couple $5k subs, that would be amazing. So, yeah, a $600 budget is exactly that - a budget ;)

 

As for REW - not heard of that before, so I will have to look into it. However, at this time, that's not an option. The basement isn't done yet, and so there is nothing to measure down there. Right now, it's just studs with insulation, and wiring. No flooring or even drywall in place yet. But, I will do some homework on that for the future.

 

I was hoping to narrow down my speak choices though so that I know where/how to run the speaker wires - or roughly anyway.

 

 

Would subs be something to look out for really good deals on Black Friday? Or, do their prices pretty much stay the same?

 

 

Thanks again

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Old 10-29-2013, 01:26 PM
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The LV12R is a well-rated sub but, IMO, any single ~$600 sub is going to be overwhelmed by your space.

The PB-1000 is also a well-rated sub. One of them costs $499, shipped; dual PB-1000s would run you $949, shipped. IMO - and because SVS offers free return shipping within 45 days - you should consider at least demo-ing a PB-1000. If you like how it performs, keep it and add a second one later on.

If you think it's far too weak to work in your space, you may want to re-consider the LV12R (which, although more powerful than the PB-1000, may also be insufficient for your space) and increase your budget to include something like the powerful and well-rated PSA XV15 ($799, shipped).
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Old 10-29-2013, 02:03 PM
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The LV12R and VTF-2 have good output, but I think you will need dual subs in that space so I agree with the dual PB-1000 suggestion.
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Old 10-29-2013, 06:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nimen View Post


That Dayton kits looks interesting. Does anyone else have any comments/experience with that sub?
I'd have no problem putting that sub together - if it's worth it. Would it outperform 2 of those Klipsch subs?
The reason I was even thinking about going with the 2 x subs might be a better way to go was exactly to help smooth out the sound across the area.

..which leads me directly to :
I am well aware that this is a big area. And I don't expect the sub(s) to fill the entire area. I just want to be able to enjoy movies (and music) in the TV area, as much as possible given the budget. Obviously, if I designed the room with air baffles, sound absorbing walls, and dropped in a couple $5k subs, that would be amazing. So, yeah, a $600 budget is exactly that - a budget wink.gif

As for REW - not heard of that before, so I will have to look into it. However, at this time, that's not an option. The basement isn't done yet, and so there is nothing to measure down there. Right now, it's just studs with insulation, and wiring. No flooring or even drywall in place yet. But, I will do some homework on that for the future.

Would subs be something to look out for really good deals on Black Friday? Or, do their prices pretty much stay the same?

The best black friday deal is when Outlaw puts their LFM subs on sale, usually at a pretty hefty discount: the LFM-1 Plus and LFM-1 EX. You may be able to get a EX for $600 shipped, I believe that was the last black friday deal. That would be worth waiting for.

As for how these subs compare with dual Klipsch 12HG, it's not so easy to tell without measurements, but the Klipsch will surely be tuned higher than these larger subs. Its driver isn't likely to be as robust, so it probably won't fare nearly as well with respect to distortion or compression. Two subs will give you more even bass for a wider area of seating. Usually I am for multiple subs before a single more powerful sub, but only after a certain point in performance which I wouldn't believe the 12HG would meet. If you can wait for black friday, your best bang for the buck is the Outlaw EX if it hits $600 shipped again. You can always add another later for the advantages of multiple sub systems.
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Old 10-30-2013, 12:00 AM
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I picked up a LFM-1EX last year on BF and love it! It replaced (2) PL-200 BIC subs, there is no comparison. I'm looking to pick up another one this year also.
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Old 10-30-2013, 07:02 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nimen View Post

Thanks for your replies guys. I was kind of hoping for a few more opinions on this.

Buy a Rythmik F25 with an eye on a second or third subwoofer but this opinion, just saying, is outside the specs of your OP when you post: "...but gotta set some limits."
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Pioneer Elite Sc 71 , Definitive Technology Supercube 2000 Subwoofer , Klipsch Sub 12hg Synergy Series 12 Inch 300 Watt Subwoofer With High Gloss Trim Black , Svs Pb1000 10 Inch 300 Watt Powered Subwoofer , Hsu Vtf2 Mk4 , Svs Sb12 Nsd Charcoal Black Vinyl 12 Inch 400 Watt Powered Subwoofer , Premier Acoustic Pa 150
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