Best position for 2 subwoofers - option 1, 2, or 3? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 21 Old 10-28-2013, 05:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Need some quick help as my Father-in-Law's new house will be sheetrocked this Friday and we have to mark speaker locations Wednesday morning (~36 hours). See the attached layout, which position is better, 1, 2, or 3?

Most people seem to have theirs under their screen but the recent "Acoustics 102" video suggests putting 2 subwoofers at the room's midpoint (near option 3).

Would greatly appreciate some quick feedback/recommendations! Also, front-firing versus floor-firing subwoofers seems to be a coin toss so if one is better than the other for your location recommendation, please include those comments too.

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post #2 of 21 Old 10-28-2013, 06:27 PM
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Without using some fairly sophisticated software you can't accurately predict where to put the subs, so don't try to. Put them where they end up working best. With the seating positions you have chances are you'll need to put one in the back of the room.

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post #3 of 21 Old 10-28-2013, 06:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the quick feedback Bill. He can't put one at the back because that small recessed area will be filled with cabinets for the electronics.
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post #4 of 21 Old 10-28-2013, 07:07 PM
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In my particular room i got great response curves that were reasonably flattest while speakers are about a foot from each side of the room. Luckily that is right behind my main speakers which allowed me to hide the subs some

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post #5 of 21 Old 10-28-2013, 08:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kenhdtv View Post

Need some quick help as my Father-in-Law's new house will be sheetrocked this Friday and we have to mark speaker locations Wednesday morning (~36 hours). See the attached layout, which position is better, 1, 2, or 3?

Most people seem to have theirs under their screen but the recent "Acoustics 102" video suggests putting 2 subwoofers at the room's midpoint (near option 3).

Would greatly appreciate some quick feedback/recommendations! Also, front-firing versus floor-firing subwoofers seems to be a coin toss so if one is better than the other for your location recommendation, please include those comments too.



Read this thread.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1490184/one-better-sub-or-two-subs

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post #6 of 21 Old 10-28-2013, 11:08 PM
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I would choose position 1 with the subs about 6.75 feet apart. Any chance you can move the side speakers forward, so they're more in line with the first row, and move the rear speakers apart to the back corners of the room, to improve left-vs-right separation behind the listeners?

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post #7 of 21 Old 10-29-2013, 06:07 AM
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Originally Posted by kenhdtv View Post

Thanks for the quick feedback Bill. He can't put one at the back because that small reccessed area will be filled with cabinets for the electronics.
When you're starting with a clean sheet of paper you should never use the word 'can't'. IMO when the goal is the best sound possible you put the subs where they deliver that, and once that's been confirmed then you decide where to put the electronics, otherwise you're putting the cart before the horse.

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post #8 of 21 Old 10-29-2013, 08:25 AM - Thread Starter
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Done - all 15 pages of it! Interesting stuff. The REW process reminds me of the TV calibration process only more complicated due to the large number of variables.

Based on everyone's feedback and the 1 vs 2 subs thread, we'll probably go with wiring on the front 3 walls so we can put the subs on any combination of the 3 and then use the REW process to find the best combination. Since it will be another 2-3 months before the house is finished, I've got time to read the How-To guides for REW and Audyssey and to start looking at A/V equipment options. Regarding AVRs, I thought I picked up in the 1 vs 2 subs thread that an Onkyo receiver had good tweaking options, is this correct?
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post #9 of 21 Old 10-29-2013, 08:33 PM - Thread Starter
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A Home Theater store suggested 4 ceiling surrounds versus in-wall saying the in-wall side surrounds would be too close and therefore very directional so we are now favoring this approach. Rear ceiling speakers are our only option due to 2x4 interferences but the side surrounds could go either way. Are side ceiling speakers fine or a mistake?

We'll be marking speaker locations in ~11 hours!
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post #10 of 21 Old 10-29-2013, 09:20 PM
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A Home Theater store suggested 4 ceiling surrounds versus in-wall saying the in-wall side surrounds would be too close and therefore very directional so we are now favoring this approach.

I think the guys at HT store don't know what they are talking about. All the speakers in an HT set up must be directional in order for you to perfectly place the sounds in movies to maintain surround sound realism.
Only the subwoofer must not reveal its location in a perfectly calibrated system.

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post #11 of 21 Old 10-29-2013, 10:31 PM
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I prefer surrounds that are immersive, not distracting, but it's a matter of taste.
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post #12 of 21 Old 10-30-2013, 05:22 AM
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Originally Posted by rcohen View Post

I prefer surrounds that are immersive, not distracting, but it's a matter of taste.
+1. That's why I have mine aimed at the ceiling from about 3 inches away, for maximum diffusion and minimum directivity. The last thing I'd recommend is in-ceiling surrounds, as they'd result in hot spots below them and cold zones everywhere else.

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post #13 of 21 Old 10-30-2013, 05:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

+1. That's why I have mine aimed at the ceiling from about 3 inches away, for maximum diffusion and minimum directivity. The last thing I'd recommend is in-ceiling surrounds, as they'd result in hot spots below them and cold zones everywhere else.

+2 Interesting, never thought of that.

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post #14 of 21 Old 10-30-2013, 06:09 AM - Thread Starter
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Bill, where are your surrounds mounted? I don't follow your comment "I have mine aimed at the ceiling from about 3 inches away".
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post #15 of 21 Old 10-30-2013, 06:31 AM
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Originally Posted by kenhdtv View Post

Bill, where are your surrounds mounted? I don't follow your comment "I have mine aimed at the ceiling from about 3 inches away".
At the rear corners of the room, the baffle aimed up, the baffle 3 inches from the ceiling. Doing so accomplishes the same thing that otherwise requires bi- or dipoles, but with a much simpler, and less expensive, monopole speaker. My LP is 3 feet away from the one, 12 feet away from the other, and they're heard equally well.

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post #16 of 21 Old 10-30-2013, 07:02 AM - Thread Starter
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Got it - thanks for the clarification.
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post #17 of 21 Old 10-30-2013, 07:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

+1. That's why I have mine aimed at the ceiling from about 3 inches away, for maximum diffusion and minimum directivity. The last thing I'd recommend is in-ceiling surrounds, as they'd result in hot spots below them and cold zones everywhere else.

I don't think this approach is required specifically in movies where avr decode mode is DD or DTS.
The signal going into surrounds is ambient/background noises, which are recorded that way in the mix unless the mixer intends to feed a specific sound into a particular surround depending on what's happening on the screen, in which case directionality is, in fact, intended to maintain surround sound realism.

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post #18 of 21 Old 10-30-2013, 11:47 AM
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In audyssey 11.1 the surround sound is so immersive that i think diffusive vs directive speakers argument is no longer valid. Accurate directive arrangement is what Is working great for me. I built the theater ground up tho, so i had no significant compromises to make. My surround speakers and huge and high quality ... Many surround sound complaints come from people with poor quality poor dynamic range surround speakers which sound more distracting than they should!

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post #19 of 21 Old 10-30-2013, 12:35 PM - Thread Starter
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We went with in-wall for the side surrounds and in-ceiling for the rears. This is all just wiring at this point. A/V equipment research is next - we're thinking HTIB ... just kidding smile.gif

Thanks for everyone's inputs, it definitely helped!

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post #20 of 21 Old 10-30-2013, 01:20 PM
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That looks like a good strategy, since nobody will be sitting directly below the ceiling speakers. I've seen some stuff that suggested avoiding mixing dipoles on the sides with mono/bipoles in the back, due to phase cancellation problems, so no problem if you're not planning on using dipoles.

Since the electronics will be in the back, it sounds like you'll be able to test 1 sub in the back without affecting wiring.

You might have line of sight issues with the back row, unless you put them on a riser. Also, you'll want to plan that fan carefully, since it's cutting it close.
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post #21 of 21 Old 10-30-2013, 02:14 PM - Thread Starter
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rcohen, the back cabinet will have a bar top so there will be some people traffic back there so it's not a good place for a sub. We checked the back row sight lines in the model home 2 days ago and it will be manageable with proper chair positioning (no need for a riser). And correct on the fan, will need to do that last.

We just realized one side surround could be blocked by an open double door during casual TV viewing but it would be closed for movies so our current plan is to leave it as-is versus moving it closer to the front on the other side of the sconce light where we might need to hang some acoustic panels.
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