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post #31 of 40 Old 11-04-2013, 12:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rnatalli View Post

The HSU STF-1 and Outlaw M8 offer pretty good performance for subs under $300. How large a room you trying to fill?

My room is 20x20
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post #32 of 40 Old 11-04-2013, 12:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcarciero View Post

My room is 20x20

How high is the room? The two subs you were originally choosing from are insufficient in a room this size even with a very low ceiling.

Given the size of your room and the fact it is a perfect square you may want to consider increasing your budget now or waiting until you can afford to. Even if your goals are modest, a pair of subs and some type of sub equalization (or a higher end AVR with XT32) are probably necessary to get decent results.
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post #33 of 40 Old 11-04-2013, 12:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GTA Beancounter View Post

How high is the room? The two subs you were originally choosing from are insufficient in a room this size even with a very low ceiling.

Given the size of your room and the fact it is a perfect square you may want to consider increasing your budget now or waiting until you can afford to. Even if your goals are modest, a pair of subs and some type of sub equalization (or a higher end AVR with XT32) are probably necessary to get decent results.

the ceiling is 8 feet high.

So my Denon 1613 is not good enough?
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post #34 of 40 Old 11-04-2013, 01:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcarciero View Post

the ceiling is 8 feet high.
So my Denon 1613 is not good enough?
There's no issue with the Denon, the problem is the subs. You can't fill a 20x20 space with bass on the cheap. I'd forget about tens, get at least a twelve loaded sub, and be prepared to add a second down the road if it's not enough by itself.

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post #35 of 40 Old 11-04-2013, 01:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcarciero View Post


the ceiling is 8 feet high.

So my Denon 1613 is not good enough?

Ah.... now you are running into the problem of what is ideal vs what is good. A few years ago Audyssey XT32 did not even exist and sub eq is not something everyone has a desire to do. The best results truly would be achieved with what beancounter mentions but that's not to say that your Denon is no longer any good. True it won't calibrate two subs separately but it still calibrates them as one and that is far better than nothing (that's assuming you ended up with dual subs). 

 

You came in here looking to get some advice on choosing between two relatively inexpensive subs. It looks like you had a budget of under $200. The last thing you need is to leave thinking that you won't be able to enjoy your system unless you drop $1500 on new subs and another $1300 on a new AVR. But I go back to what I said earlier, I don't think what you want in bass can be had at the price you were looking at. But I do think your Denon is fine. 

 

Quote:
Given the size of your room and the fact it is a perfect square you may want to consider increasing your budget now or waiting until you can afford to. 

I agree totally with Beancounter. You have about 3200 cu ft of space to pressurize with your subwoofer. Knowing this I think you need to look at one powerful subwoofer such as the PSA XV15 ($800 shipped) or two SVS PB12-NSDs, (I don't know, maybe one could cut it, someone with more knowledge than me might be able to help with that). 

 

I know that's A LOT more than you wanted to spend and probably not what you wanted to hear. But it is a pretty good size room.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by rnatalli View Post

The HSU STF-1 and Outlaw M8 offer pretty good performance for subs under $300. 

There are these options as well but I don't think they will be able to fill your room but theses two companies do have other subs that will fill your room.

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post #36 of 40 Old 11-04-2013, 04:51 PM
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I agree. You need more sub in order to fill that room which means a higher budget. A single PB-1000 would be the minimum I would consider in a 3200 cu ft room; the PC12-NSD would be better. Outlaw may put the LFM EX on sale for Black Friday so another thought.
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post #37 of 40 Old 11-05-2013, 04:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcarciero View Post

the ceiling is 8 feet high.

So my Denon 1613 is not good enough?

Your Denon has Audyssey MultEQ room correction. Per my limited experience with Audyssey (my AVR's have been Yamahas with YPAO) I don't know for sure if your AVR will do a good job with bass, it certainly won't do what an AVR with XT32 can do. This link summarizes the various Audyssey "flavors".

http://www.audyssey.com/technologies/multeq/flavors

Hopefully someone with experience with a MultEQ AVR can comment.

I agree with Hopinator that its a question of "ideal" vs "good" and that you may be very happy with what you have. Don't worry about your AVR! You can pick up an antimode for about $400 at some point in the future if trying different sub locations does not work out for you. I think the least expensive AVRs with XT32 are still in the $1200+ range so an antimode is a relatively cost effective proposition vs. upgrading what is otherwise an up to date and capable AVR. There are other less expensive options like mini DSP if you want to spend a decent amount of time here on AVS.

I have a PB-1000 in my 27.5 x 14 x 7 HTR, it is certainly adequate for my needs from the main listening position but I always figured that I'd eventually add a second one down the road to smooth out the response in my room. I have major peaks at 40 and 80hz and have just picked up an Antimode that I will install on the week-end, the YPAO in my AVR does not provide equalization in the lower bass region.

I can really relate to your situation, I was originally going to spend $300 on a 10" energy sub with a 100 Watt amp until I came here to research. I quickly discovered that the energy sub would have been inadequate in my room. Your room being a perfect square will more than likely really need a 2nd sub or equalization (if MultEQ is not enough) to sound its best.
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post #38 of 40 Old 11-05-2013, 04:51 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcarciero View Post

So my Denon 1613 is not good enough?

That is such a subjective question.....when is good enough, good enough and when is it time to upgrade to the next better level?

What are your expectations and will the gear you have, give you what you want?

Did you go with the Primus PS410?

Have you taken the time to download a freeware copy of REW?

Quote:
I live in Canada

Have you considered a border mail box and if able, a day trip to the border? Lots of folks here do that.

My recommendation, go with the Primus PS410 for your quoted price of $150.00, download and get a copy of REW up and running so you can see and measure your room's interaction with your subwoofer's output; purchase a miniDSP; learn how it all works; get the best out of this setup and then upgrade to the higher end subwoofer sound reproduction system; sell the Primus PS410.

If a picture is worth a thousand words than an education is worth a million bucks.



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post #39 of 40 Old 11-05-2013, 05:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcarciero 
I got the rpw 10.
Curious: Aside from a couple of "flip a coin" suggestions, three people suggested you go with the Infinity over the Klipsch. And your reply was "Looks like the infinity is the one I will go with". Why did you even bother getting the RPW-10?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopinater 
You have about 3200 cu ft of space to pressurize with your subwoofer. Knowing this I think you need to look at one powerful subwoofer such as the PSA XV15 ($800 shipped) or two SVS PB12-NSDs, (I don't know, maybe one could cut it, someone with more knowledge than me might be able to help with that).
My basement HT space is ~15' x 30' x 7.5' = ~3,400 cu.ft. One older (BASH-equipped) PB12-NSD did a pretty good job in it. IMO, dual PB-1000s should do very well in the OP's space.

He might consider buying one - through SVS's Canadian distributor, sonicboomaudio.com (SBA) - and, later on, adding a second one (which, IIRC, SBA will "repeat customer" discount by 5%).

Another option is for the OP to keep an eye out for a good deal on a gently-used sub. CanuckAudioMart.com is a great site; others include used[yourcity].com and [yourcity].kijiji.ca.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcarciero 
So my Denon 1613 is not good enough?
It's good enough. My previous receiver (a Marantz SR6003) had Audyssey MultEQ - which is what the AVR-1613 has - and it did a good job of EQ-ing my set-up.
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post #40 of 40 Old 11-05-2013, 05:08 AM
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Yet another good option for sub EQ is the Velodyne SMS-1. You can sometimes get them cheap on EBay.
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