Is this overkill - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 20 Old 10-30-2013, 04:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Please don't jump on me when I present my dilemma. I have a theater room, but in no way is it a real theater room, it is on the second floor and has absolutely no sound isolation from the downstairs. The room is rather small at 17 x 14 x 8. I really appreciate deep, articulate bass. I am considering the xv15, but am wondering if it will be too much for my small, us isolated room. Also am wondering if a ( don't laugh) Bic PL200, might be a better fit for my room. I want to be able to feel the low bass and be gut-punched when those frequencies are there. I am sure the xv15 can deliver that in a larger room, but will my rooms dimensions prevent the necessary wave propagation?
Would a more modest sub like the Bic be a better choice.
I also was considering the hsu vtf3, but have the same reservations about that. So, what do you think, will the xv15 work or should I go with the Bic?
Thanks guys.
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post #2 of 20 Old 10-30-2013, 06:50 PM
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No such thing as overkill when it comes to subwoofers. Rule of thumb is to buy as much subwoofer as your budget allows. The PSA XV15, HSU VTF-3, and SVS PB12-NSD are all excellent choices in the $700-$800 price range.
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post #3 of 20 Old 10-30-2013, 07:30 PM
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If you want deep, articulate bass, I have found that sealed subwoofers do those two things much better than ported designs.
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post #4 of 20 Old 10-30-2013, 07:58 PM
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Originally Posted by rcohen View Post

If you want deep, articulate bass, I have found that sealed subwoofers do those two things much better than ported designs.

While I appreciate your enthusiasm for sealed, more could be said... cool.gif

http://web.archive.org/web/20080416034852/http://www.audiopulse.com/know-how/subwoofer-driver-guide/myths-about-subwoofers/ You might start with No. 4



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post #5 of 20 Old 10-30-2013, 09:23 PM
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Yes, I'm familiar with all that, but I was trying to be concise. Let me restate:

If you want deep, articulate bass, I have found that sealed subwoofers usually do those two things better than ported designs.

There are good and bad subs of both designs. Also, there are other aspects that contribute to sub goodness. It partly depends on personal taste.
If low frequency extension and articulate bass are your top priorities, I suggest you look at good sealed subs.

If your top priority is getting the highest spl clean output for a given size and price point, ported subs usually shine in those departments.

Fundamentally, typical ported subs trade low frequency extension and time domain response for efficiency, if all else is equal. Depending on the particular sub, that could be to a small degree or to a greater degree.

Better?
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post #6 of 20 Old 10-30-2013, 09:52 PM
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^^^ Have you ever tried a good PR sub? Kind of the best of both worlds imo. I Do like all three, once you ratchet up sealed to match vented, most in HT meets can’t tell the difference and I suppose the same might be said of PR?? I’m not so sure though? This is only my opinion, I guess I have seen others state thinking about it. Anyway I always run the BASSIS with my sealed and really appreciate them after since no built-in dsp.

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post #7 of 20 Old 10-30-2013, 10:12 PM
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No such thing as overkill when it comes to subwoofers. Rule of thumb is to buy as much subwoofer as your budget allows.

+1. While BIC will also be able to pressurize room your size; but when we discuss headroom, SQ, depth, price/performance ratio and pitch it against ID subs, they are no brainer.

XV-15 will be aided by ample room gain low down in the audio spectrum in your room putting a grin on your face you won't be able to wipe off for a very long time.

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post #8 of 20 Old 10-31-2013, 10:05 AM
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OP also when you are talking about bass pretty much no matter what sub you buy will transmit sound and vibrations through the walls and floors. So buy the biggest best sub you can and just be smart about the times you crank it.... You may also want to consider the XS15 since your room is small the sealed sub will get a bunch of room gain down low.
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post #9 of 20 Old 10-31-2013, 01:26 PM - Thread Starter
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First, thanks to all of you for the information. Based on what you have said, I think I am going to get either the XS or XV 15 and I think I have this correct-the sealed sub will be better articulated, reach actually lower Hz, but have lower SPL than the ported equivalent?? The ported will have greater SPL at a higher frequency ??
If I am correct, still not sure which unit would work better in my room-I guess I can't go wrong either way, just wondering if the XS will not have as much SLAM as the ported XV in the less than subterranean frequencies. What do you think?
Thanks again
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post #10 of 20 Old 10-31-2013, 01:43 PM
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You're probably better off with two smaller subs than one large one. Two subs will smooth room response, giving the perception of higher levels while not actually producing higher levels. That means you can run them at lower level without it sounding lower, which reduces the bleed through to other rooms.

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post #11 of 20 Old 10-31-2013, 01:43 PM
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If I am correct, still not sure which unit would work better in my room-I guess I can't go wrong either way, just wondering if the XS will not have as much SLAM as the ported XV in the less than subterranean frequencies.

Either will do the job just fine in your room. However, ported will have more output near the tuning frequency. XV-15 should give you ample output down to mid teens. Subjectively speaking it should pass Pulse lab scene (centred around 16Hz) or WOW pod emerging scence, or FOTP plane crash scene.

Rest, the choice is yours.

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post #12 of 20 Old 10-31-2013, 01:53 PM
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I just recently upgraded to a SVS PC12+in a room smaller than yours and while it really pounds when I want it to, I would certainly not say it's overkill by any means. According to SVS with my sub in 16hz tune should be getting good response down to about 13hz in my small room.

So get the biggest, most powerful sub you can afford, like the PC12+ I have or the PSA XS30 or if your really want to blow the doors out, the Rythmik FV15HP.

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post #13 of 20 Old 10-31-2013, 03:03 PM
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I just recently upgraded to a SVS PC12+

Don’t underestimate the 12+, it’s a barn burner. whatever that means smile.gif

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post #14 of 20 Old 10-31-2013, 04:41 PM
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Hey OP smile.gif I run dual XS15s in a room that's 17x11.5x8 with a small opening to the rest of my home. The system where they're installed produces the best bass experience in the house. This is compared to other subs in other rooms, which were both, at one time or another, installed where the XS15s are now.

I'm still learning but I'm pretty sure there's massive low frequency gain in that room, and I know that there's only crude EQ for the sub channel; so a sub like the XS15, with its long, shallow rolloff, matches my room really well. Music is gorgeous; HT is thrilling. Plus I'm never near the output limits of either unit, so there's never any ugliness.

Anyway yeah. What I'm saying is, I'm having the time of my life with dual sealed PSAs in a space rather similar to yours. Fling Tom an email and discuss your goals smile.gif

Edit--Yes, I have also used a powerful ported sub with a response that's flat down to the upper teens in the same space. In my opinion, the XS15s are better for all content there, although not quite as impactful in the region between about 30Hz and 18Hz. However, this slightly reduced impact doesn't result in an anemic sound; it results in what I can only describe as a more detailed sound. There's a lotta doubters and naysayers when it comes to sealed subs, I think because it really is false that ported subs aren't good for music and don't have strong output at very low frequencies; that they are inherently 'boomy' or whatever. That's certainly all bunk. However it is true, in my opinion, that if you are blessed with a small listening room, then you should take advantage of the way a sealed sub with a traditional, long and extended rolloff interacts with small rooms. Have no fear! Go XS15!

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post #15 of 20 Old 10-31-2013, 05:03 PM
 
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Originally Posted by SaviorMachine View Post

Hey OP smile.gif I run dual XS15s in a room that's 17x11.5x8 with a small opening to the rest of my home.

Have you measured your room with REW yet? (forgive me if I've asked you this question before) What kind of SPL are you hitting and how deep is your extension?
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post #16 of 20 Old 10-31-2013, 05:53 PM
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Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

Have you measured your room with REW yet? (forgive me if I've asked you this question before) What kind of SPL are you hitting and how deep is your extension?

You may have asked, but I'm not sure. The answer is no. I'm very lazy, and I have no laptop; so measurement would involve unplugging the hell out of my tower, dragging it across the place, setting it up in the living room... even thinking about it makes me procrastinate.

I have a couple more hardware changes to make. When the dust has settled, I'll invest in a quality USB mic and probably pick up a few MiniDSP modules for my different systems. It may sound like I have it backwards, but I already know what I want for the last (?) sub upgrade in my music room--the XS15s in my main HT showed me wink.gif

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post #17 of 20 Old 10-31-2013, 07:26 PM
 
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Originally Posted by SaviorMachine View Post

...so measurement would involve unplugging the hell out of my tower, dragging it across the place, setting it up in the living room... even thinking about it makes me procrastinate.

I understand. I have a desktop in the office and no laptop. My solution was to get a couple of fifty foot cables to run the headphone jack on the front plate of the computer box to the receiver and a phantom amplifier and a fifty foot patch cord for running the measuring microphone back to the desktop. Doing this ran an extra two hundred dollars because I also needed a ground loop isolator to take care of the ground difference between the two breaker switches but I didn't have to suffer the indignities of moving the desktop from the office to the living room.

(thanks for the update)
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post #18 of 20 Old 11-01-2013, 05:34 AM
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Hahaha, "indignities." Yes. That's exactly the right word.

I expect that in reality, I'll experiment with all that measurement stuff in my music setup, where my tower lives; and when I'm comfortable with it, I'll borrow a friend's laptop over a weekend to tweak my LR and BR theaters.

But before all that--just a bit more upgradin' smile.gif LOL "indignities," I'm gonna be chuckling at that for the rest of the day, thank you for it biggrin.gif

Once again, I am sorry to take a sledgehammer to so small and fragile a nut. -- Richard Dawkins, The Greatest Show On Earth
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post #19 of 20 Old 11-01-2013, 08:39 AM
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Originally Posted by steve nn View Post

^^^ Have you ever tried a good PR sub? Kind of the best of both worlds imo. I Do like all three, once you ratchet up sealed to match vented, most in HT meets can’t tell the difference and I suppose the same might be said of PR?? I’m not so sure though? This is only my opinion, I guess I have seen others state thinking about it. Anyway I always run the BASSIS with my sealed and really appreciate them after since no built-in dsp.
Not in a sub, but I've had mains with passive radiators. I prefer sealed mains that get their efficiency from multiple bass drivers, rather than PRs. IMO, the best of both worlds for subs is multiple sealed subs. I have tested good subs side by side, and I personally prefer the tightness, deepness, and realism of the sealed sound, when possible. It does cost more money, though, to match the output of what ported subs can do. Also, some people just prefer the ported sound - "thicker" and louder.
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post #20 of 20 Old 11-01-2013, 09:03 AM
 
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Originally Posted by SaviorMachine View Post

I'm gonna be chuckling at that for the rest of the day, thank you for it biggrin.gif

...biggrin.gif
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