AVS Forum

AVS Forum (http://www.avsforum.com/forum/)
-   Subwoofers, Bass, and Transducers (http://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-subwoofers-bass-transducers/)
-   -   As of Nov 2013 - best sub for under 1K ? (http://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-subwoofers-bass-transducers/1500181-nov-2013-best-sub-under-1k.html)

lockeed 11-17-2013 06:34 PM

Open to your suggestions. Sub would be used in a large, 48' long X 14" room - 50/50 mix of music and movie/game.

Hopinater 11-17-2013 07:17 PM

I'll be the first to take the bait on this. IMO the XV15 is the most bang for your buck at $800 shipped followed by the SVS PB12-NSD at $769 shipped and the Hsu VTF 15 or the VTF3-MK 4 but by the time you add in shipping the VTF 15H is reaching the limits of the $1000 ceiling. 

 

But I don't think any one of them can handle your room by themselves. Assuming the ceilings are 8 ft your room measures well over 5000 cu ft. That's very large. I think you will need at least two of any those subs to really do justice to the bass in that size of a room. Plus dual subs smooths out the bass across the LPs. 


basshead81 11-17-2013 07:27 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopinater View Post

I'll be the first to take the bait on this. IMO the XV15 is the most bang for your buck at $800 shipped followed by the SVS PB12-NSD at $769 shipped and the Hsu VTF 15 or the VTF3-MK 4 but by the time you add in shipping the VTF 15H is reaching the limits of the $1000 ceiling. 

But I don't think any one of them can handle your room by themselves. Assuming the ceilings are 8 ft your room measures well over 5000 cu ft. That's very large. I think you will need at least two of any those subs to really do justice to the bass in that size of a room. Plus dual subs smooths out the bass across the LPs. 

+1 thats alot of room to fill. Imo a room that size is going to need a minimum 1500.00 worth of subwoofage to get adequate output. I would look at Dual PC12NSD's, Dual XV15's, or if you can only do a single, then a Rythmik FV15HP would be a must.

shadyJ 11-17-2013 07:39 PM

Huge room, in that sized room I would go for two Premier Acoustics PA-150 subs. It ain't much below 40 Hz, but above 50 hz it is a beast. If you can only have one $1k sub, I would go for the Dayton T1504A. It won't do much damage below 30 hz, but it ought to do very well above that point. I don't know how shipping to Canada will add to its price though. You might give live sound subs a look as well. They don't tend to dig real deep but they have huge output. The are designed for large venues. Here are a couple examples: the Mackie HD1801 and Yamaha DSR118W. Both are 130+ dB capable at 1 m, which is not something any home audio subwoofer is going to give you anywhere near $1k.

shinksma 11-18-2013 09:34 AM

I don't know why the previous posters think the room is all that big - it's only 14 inches wide! I mean come on, a cheap HTIB sub could fill that space...and heck, most of the recommended subs wouldn't even physically fit in there...

tongue.gif

Anyway...yes, at least two subs to fill that room, especially since it is so elongated (even at 14 feet wide).

Perhaps your best choice right now would be to max out the $1000 on a single sub (like the HSU), then build up a little more funds over the next year in anticipation of procuring a second identical sub. That way you'll satisfy your immediate needs, but have the opportunity to build on it to really get some good sound.

IMHO, YMMV,

shinksma

eljaycanuck 11-18-2013 09:52 AM

Assuming 8' ceilings, that's almost 5,400 cu.ft. That's a BIG room! Dual subs would be ideal.

If you have a one-time budget of ~$1,000, dual SVS PB-1000s might work. In Canada, they're available through sonicboomaudio.com (SBA), SVS' official and only Canadian distributor. They're priced the same as in the U.S. ($499), but we have to pay taxes and shipping. IIRC, SBA offers a 5% discount on the second sub (and on subsequent purchases).

If buying from the U.S., the XV15 ($799, shipped within the continental U.S.) would be a great option. Get it delivered to a U.S. depot and drive down to pick it up.

If you can buy one now and add another one later on, definitely go with the XV15. Unless you intend to stick to buying within Canada, in which case go with dual SVS PB12-NSDs.

eljaycanuck 11-18-2013 10:07 AM

Quote:
I don't know why the previous posters think the room is all that big - it's only 14 inches wide!
Funny... biggrin.gif

ermghoti 11-18-2013 10:35 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by shinksma View Post

I don't know why the previous posters think the room is all that big - it's only 14 inches wide! I mean come on, a cheap HTIB sub could fill that space...and heck, most of the recommended subs wouldn't even physically fit in there...

It's not your job to be as confused as him.

Hopinater 11-18-2013 01:04 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by eljaycanuck View Post

Assuming 8' ceilings, that's almost 5,400 cu.ft. That's a BIG room! Dual subs would be ideal.

If you have a one-time budget of ~$1,000, dual SVS PB-1000s might work. In Canada, they're available through sonicboomaudio.com (SBA), SVS' official and only Canadian distributor. They're priced the same as in the U.S. ($499), but we have to pay taxes and shipping. IIRC, SBA offers a 5% discount on the second sub (and on subsequent purchases).

If buying from the U.S., the XV15 ($799, shipped within the continental U.S.) would be a great option. Get it delivered to a U.S. depot and drive down to pick it up.

If you can buy one now and add another one later on, definitely go with the XV15. Unless you intend to stick to buying within Canada, in which case go with dual SVS PB12-NSDs.

I agree with all of this but I am a little concerned that dual PB 1000s may still not be enough. I guess with the SVS 45 day free trial it's safe to buy them and see. But I like the other two choices better. 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by shinksma View Post

I don't know why the previous posters think the room is all that big - it's only 14 inches wide! I mean come on, a cheap HTIB sub could fill that space...and heck, most of the recommended subs wouldn't even physically fit in there...

Good catch, that's funny. :p


lockeed 11-18-2013 04:53 PM

Some great suggestions, as always. I've been out of the game for about 2 years so I'm not really up to date right now with these new subs! I have two MFW-15 in my theater, how would you guys compare the XV15 or PB12 to mine?

BTW, I just got the final measurements for the room and it turns out it's actually 43' X 15' with two large dormers that are 10' wide. Room is located on a second floor.

I'm helping out a friend setup his room properly... He wants to go with a single sub because, A, he's not an audiophile and B, one good sub will do just fine, he's not looking for power in particular, just a good low end presence.


Kini62 11-18-2013 05:04 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by lockeed View Post

A, he's not an audiophile and B, one good sub will do just fine, he's not looking for power in particular, just a good low end presence.

Well, they go hand in hand, not going to have one without the other etc.....

In a place that big the subwoofer will be trying to fill the whole space at the same time, not just the listening area. Even with the sub right next to the listening position it will still lose a lot punch/power to the room.

Get the biggest or most sub you/he can afford.

Hopinater 11-18-2013 06:33 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kini62 View Post


Well, they go hand in hand, not going to have one without the other etc.....

In a place that big the subwoofer will be trying to fill the whole space at the same time, not just the listening area. Even with the sub right next to the listening position it will still lose a lot punch/power to the room.

Get the biggest or most sub you/he can afford.

 

Agreed, time to up the budget and follow basehead's earlier advice and get the Rythmik FV15HP.


derrickdj1 11-18-2013 07:02 PM

I also have a large room similar to the OP. I went with passive subs. An amp and sub can be done for around a grand. This way the cost is a lot less for the second sub since an amp can run 2-4 subs. I used Chase subs and DYI sub kit are also an alternative. For large rooms, max spl is a strong consideration. I had the Premiere Acoustic PA 150 and it was a great sub for a large room but, lacks in the low end. It is still one of my favorite subs.

shinksma 11-21-2013 09:52 AM

This might sound a bit naff, but does your friend really need the whole room as one large open space? If a part-wall was added 60%/40% of the way along the long side at the same spot as the wall of one of the dormers (for example), the room would be 24' x 15', with one dormer in the middle of the side wall of that room "portion". That would make for an effectively smaller room, even if the new wall was not all the way across the opening, it would make the area easier to pressurize. See graphic attached, where I marked up your plan-view. Red is partial wall, blue is a possible Subwoofer location - will maximize "boom loudness" but not the ideal position for flat response, more than likely.

Just a possible suggestion, I might be completely bonkers, YMMV,

shinksma


lockeed 11-21-2013 05:52 PM

A always, thx for all your suggestions. We went with the PB12 form SVS. The fact that they have a Canadian distributor gave it the edge over the others. Saved a lot of shipping and import/brokerage fees...

Let's see how it goes and if it performs well, we might bring another one in!

Cheers

lockeed 11-21-2013 05:54 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by shinksma View Post

This might sound a bit naff, but does your friend really need the whole room as one large open space? If a part-wall was added 60%/40% of the way along the long side at the same spot as the wall of one of the dormers (for example), the room would be 24' x 15', with one dormer in the middle of the side wall of that room "portion". That would make for an effectively smaller room, even if the new wall was not all the way across the opening, it would make the area easier to pressurize. See graphic attached, where I marked up your plan-view. Red is partial wall, blue is a possible Subwoofer location - will maximize "boom loudness" but not the ideal position for flat response, more than likely.

Just a possible suggestion, I might be completely bonkers, YMMV,

shinksma


Unfortunately, your wall would mean we'd have to cut the pool table in half smile.gif But I get why you suggested it, I'm afraid we'll have to fill the whole room as it was designed as an open space from the start, there's gona be 4 TVs, a bar section, pool table, 3 couches....etc...

shadyJ 11-21-2013 06:01 PM

A PB12 NSD for a 5k+ cubic ft room... would not have been my first choice, but let us know how it works out.

Hopinater 11-21-2013 06:09 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by lockeed View Post


Unfortunately, your wall would mean we'd have to cut the pool table in half smile.gif But I get why you suggested it, I'm afraid we'll have to fill the whole room as it was designed as an open space from the start, there's gona be 4 TVs, a bar section, pool table, 3 couches....etc...

I don't know how it's going to sound but it's sure to look great.


eljaycanuck 11-21-2013 06:15 PM

Quote:
We went with the PB12 form SVS. ... Let's see how it goes and if it performs well, we might bring another one in!
The PB12-NSD is a good sub, but I think you'll be wanting another one at some point. smile.gif

I had previous-gen, BASH-powered PB12-NSD in my ~3,400 cu.ft. HT space and I liked it a lot. But after a while, I was considering adding a second one...and I would have, had I not chosen to go a different route.

eagle98 11-21-2013 10:36 PM

I was looking at this thread for some similar advice.

I'm looking for a subwoofer around $1k.

My room is 16' x 14' x 9' ceiling. 5.1 setup, perhaps will be 5.2 if I add a new sub.

My setup: Denon 3313 receiver.
Original Klipsch RF-83 towers
Original Klipsch RC-64 Center
Klipsch RS-42-II Surrounds (I liked the round look better than the triangle look on the old school ones)

Right now I'm running a Klipsch RT-12D subwoofer with the setup, which is the triangular look and I'm actually happy with the sound and bass for the most part. I guess this was the original sub intended for this setup.

It's okay (not capitalized on purpose).

I got a really good deal on the RT-12d about a year ago for about $150, so it was good as a filler.

Now I want MOAR!

After about 6 months after the Epik Christmas 2012 "sellout" I was convinced I was going to get DUAL EPIK empires to replace the RT-12D, but they were never for sale.

A year later, their website hasn't changed except a small blurb in June about a new product that still doesn't exist in time for Christmas this year and still no Empires for sale.

I had heard such good reviews on their subs a year ago, and they've been "sold out" for over a year.
I'm guessing the problems are deeper and maybe they went out of business since I don't think their website has had an available sub since last Christmas. WTFO??

Anyway, I'm looking for either an additional subwoofer for roughly $1k or advice if I should sell my RT-12D and get dual subs of another type. (Maybe I'll keep the RT-12D anyway since it compliments the other Klipsch if I ever want to sell).

I don't really do music right now too much in this room since this is my theater room with projector and 100" screen. My current sub has "good" bass, but I want something that "CRUSHES" this size room.

Can I feel adequate for around $1000 given the room size above? What suggestions do you have?

Any good sub companies expected to have a BF or Cyber Monday sale?

eljaycanuck 11-22-2013 04:30 AM

Room size = 2,016 cu.ft.

For ~$1,000:
- PSA XS30 ($1,149, shipped)
- HSU VTF-15H ($879 + $143 shipping)
- PSA XV15 ($799, shipped)

BeeMan458 11-22-2013 06:11 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by shinksma View Post

I don't know why the previous posters think the room is all that big - it's only 14 inches wide! I mean come on, a cheap HTIB sub could fill that space...and heck, most of the recommended subs wouldn't even physically fit in there...

Who are you kidding. Most of us would have to go on a diet for six months to fit in that room. tongue.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by lockeed View Post

I'm helping out a friend setup his room properly... He wants to go with a single sub because, A, he's not an audiophile and B, one good sub will do just fine, he's not looking for power in particular, just a good low end presence.

Just saying, setting up a room properly and audiophile are not necessarily synonymous.

In my opinion, properly set up means meeting the expectations of the owner of the room. What are his requirements besides a single subwoofer, under a thousand dollars?

Are you having your friend follow this thread? As a suggestion, he should be monitoring this thread so he'll see the conversation develop.

Quote:
A always, thx for all your suggestions. We went with the PB12 form SVS.

i see you've put an order in.....good luck and I hope your buddy finds happiness with his choice.

-

Hopinater 11-22-2013 08:43 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by eljaycanuck View Post

Room size = 2,016 cu.ft.

For ~$1,000:
- PSA XS30 ($1,149, shipped)
- HSU VTF-15H ($879 + $143 shipping)
- PSA XV15 ($799, shipped)

Good choices here. Another option might be the SVS PB12-NSD ($769 shipped).


Brian Fineberg 11-22-2013 09:16 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopinater View Post

Good choices here. Another option might be the SVS PB12-NSD ($769 shipped).

as having had the pb12, xv15, and xs30. I wouldnt suggest the pb12. its not even in the same league as the other 3 mentioned, and its only a 30$ savings. that 30$ is a nobrainer

ainsworth 11-22-2013 10:59 AM

Would the Outlaw LFM-1-EX be in the same league? It has 20-80hz avg of 110.4 db as shown on data bass, I am also looking at some of these, so trying to understand smile.gif

shadyJ 11-22-2013 12:08 PM

The Outlaw will get louder than the PB12 but isn't quite as clean or linear. The same is true for the XV15. It gets louder in mid bass frequencies, but can not play back as much deep bass as cleanly as the PB12. They each have their strengths.

basshead81 11-22-2013 12:53 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post

The Outlaw will get louder than the PB12 but isn't quite as clean or linear. The same is true for the XV15. It gets louder in mid bass frequencies, but can not play back as much deep bass as cleanly as the PB12. They each have their strengths.

Thats false...turn them both down to match the PB12NSD output and they both will play just as clean on paper. Aside from that most of the THD sweeps on data-bass are not audible real world usage anyway. Max burst testing is much more demanding then source content. The fact that owners(who have owned all the subs in question) have stepped in threads like this and even stated what sub is better proves this.

Hopinater 11-22-2013 01:34 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Fineberg View Post


as having had the pb12, xv15, and xs30. I wouldnt suggest the pb12. its not even in the same league as the other 3 mentioned, and its only a 30$ savings. that 30$ is a nobrainer

I do agree with you on the $30 being a no brainer, that's exactly why I went with the XV15 recently, I was just mentioning it as a decent option for a 2000 cu ft room. Good to hear from someone who has first hand experience with those three subs too. I know they are completely different subs but how did the XS30 and the XV15 compare, I assume you used them in the same room as the PB12 NSD (perhaps this is a bad assumption). 


Brian Fineberg 11-22-2013 03:01 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post

The Outlaw will get louder than the PB12 but isn't quite as clean or linear. The same is true for the XV15. It gets louder in mid bass frequencies, but can not play back as much deep bass as cleanly as the PB12. They each have their strengths.
You are completely wrong. The xv15 is tuned lower than the pb12. The xv15 is much more closely compared to the pb12+ NOT the pb12

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopinater View Post

I do agree with you on the $30 being a no brainer, that's exactly why I went with the XV15 recently, I was just mentioning it as a decent option for a 2000 cu ft room. Good to hear from someone who has first hand experience with those three subs too. I know they are completely different subs but how did the XS30 and the XV15 compare, I assume you used them in the same room as the PB12 NSD (perhaps this is a bad assumption). 

Yes they were/are all in the same room

The xs30 digs deeper and is louder above 25 hz. Its a far better sub then the xv15 which really is saying somthing! I really like the sound of a sealed sub compared to ported but that is personal preference

In my room i was flat to about 14hz with the xv15 but then it dropped like a rock

I am currently flat to 8hz with the xs30

Hope that helps a little.

I

shadyJ 11-22-2013 03:22 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

Thats false...turn them both down to match the PB12NSD output and they both will play just as clean on paper. Aside from that most of the THD sweeps on data-bass are not audible real world usage anyway. Max burst testing is much more demanding then source content. The fact that owners(who have owned all the subs in question) have stepped in threads like this and even stated what sub is better proves this.

No, they do not play just when you level match them, especially on paper. The XV15 and Outlaw have a considerably greater percentage of distortion at the 105 and 110 dB sweeps, it looks like twice as much overall, and perhaps more for the XV15 when you include its upper bass distortion. Owner testimonials don't mean anything when they are not A/B tested. On top of that dirty bass will always sound more powerful than clean bass, do they know to listen for that?


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 05:16 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.