Subwoofer choice - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 39 Old 11-17-2013, 11:39 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
cisco kid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Never Never Land
Posts: 124
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Klipsch WF34 , WC24, WS24, medium media room size say 20w x 15d x 10H

I can go up to $500 w tax shipped however would like to spend less cause I question whether paying up to 3 x as much as the first 2 options below will yield me that much better

Dayton Audio SUB-1200 $109 plus ship

BIC America F12 12-Inch $182 shipped

Polk Audio PSW505 12-Inch $229 shipped

BIC PL-200 Acoustech Platinum Series


If I spend more then one of the two below

SVS PB-1000

Rythmik LV12R

Fire away with replies....... I am tired of reading and need to pull plug and order prior to moving into new home.
cisco kid is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 39 Old 11-17-2013, 11:55 PM
AVS Special Member
 
braveheart123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Lone Wolf McQuade from Islamabad Pakistan
Posts: 1,816
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 115
Of all the lot, I'd take LV12R. But the the price doesn't include shipping, I think, so you'd have to jack your budget up.

Jim reviewed this sub. If it was my money; I'd invest it here.
http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/speaker-subwoofer-reviews/67309-rythmik-lv12r-subwoofer-review.html

For a start; do not pay attention to which subwoofer is being reviewed. Pay attention to who is reviewing a sub; and you'd be better informed.

History is written by those who have hanged heroes ...

The best EQ is no EQ ...

Alpine SWR-1223D Slot Ported HT Sub

Dual Dayton RSS390HO-4 Reference 15 Build For HT

Main System: Klipsch RF-82 II, Klipsch RC-62 II, RS-52 II, Onkyo 5010, Rythmik FV15HP, PSB S300
braveheart123 is offline  
post #3 of 39 Old 11-18-2013, 01:28 AM
Member
 
sandydankness's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Green Bay
Posts: 102
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by braveheart123 View Post

Of all the lot, I'd take LV12R. But the the price doesn't include shipping, I think, so you'd have to jack your budget up.

Jim reviewed this sub. If it was my money; I'd invest it here.
http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/speaker-subwoofer-reviews/67309-rythmik-lv12r-subwoofer-review.html

For a start; do not pay attention to which subwoofer is being reviewed. Pay attention to who is reviewing a sub; and you'd be better informed.

And Jim does a great job!

sandydankness is offline  
post #4 of 39 Old 11-18-2013, 02:49 AM
AVS Special Member
 
jproy13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: East of West, Canada
Posts: 1,194
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 23
1)LV12R
2)PB-1000
3)PL-200

Of course there are some other ones but I think k that out of your list, you've covered all the basics. The size of your room will determine how many of you'll need.
jproy13 is offline  
post #5 of 39 Old 11-18-2013, 04:09 AM
AVS Special Member
 
rnatalli's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,739
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 24 Post(s)
Liked: 83
The SVS PB-1000 gets my vote at $500.
rnatalli is offline  
post #6 of 39 Old 11-18-2013, 04:52 AM
AVS Special Member
 
eljaycanuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 5,187
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 78 Post(s)
Liked: 488
Quote:
... medium media room size say 20w x 15d x 10H

I can go up to $500 w tax shipped however would like to spend less cause I question whether paying up to 3 x as much as the first 2 options below will yield me that much better

Dayton Audio SUB-1200 $109 plus ship

BIC America F12 12-Inch $182 shipped

Polk Audio PSW505 12-Inch $229 shipped

BIC PL-200 Acoustech Platinum Series
3,000 cu.ft. isn't a small room. Since you can afford to spend $500, get the SVS PB-1000 ($499, shipped, with free return shipping within 45 days). It will outperform those four subs. Later on, if you can afford to do so, add a second PB-1000.

If you're limited to just one sub but you can afford to spend more up front, the Rythmik LV12R - by all accounts - will outperform the PB-1000.
eljaycanuck is offline  
post #7 of 39 Old 11-18-2013, 06:04 AM
Member
 
jcwhammie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: St Louis
Posts: 110
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Liked: 19
Last black friday I bought the Outlaw LFM-1plus for $500 or $550 shipped. I recommend you wait a few weeks and see if there are similar deals for the above subs.

Panasonic 60GT50Yamaha RX-A2020Panasonic Bluray DMP-BDT220Fronts: Focal Chorus 726VCenter: Focal Chorus cc700VSurrounds: Focal Chorus 705V(2) Outlaw LFM-1 Plus
jcwhammie is offline  
post #8 of 39 Old 11-18-2013, 06:11 AM
AVS Special Member
 
jproy13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: East of West, Canada
Posts: 1,194
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by eljaycanuck View Post

Quote:
... medium media room size say 20w x 15d x 10H

I can go up to $500 w tax shipped however would like to spend less cause I question whether paying up to 3 x as much as the first 2 options below will yield me that much better

Dayton Audio SUB-1200 $109 plus ship

BIC America F12 12-Inch $182 shipped

Polk Audio PSW505 12-Inch $229 shipped

BIC PL-200 Acoustech Platinum Series
3,000 cu.ft. isn't a small room. Since you can afford to spend $500, get the SVS PB-1000 ($499, shipped, with free return shipping within 45 days). It will outperform all of the subs listed above.

Later on, if you can afford to do so, add a second PB-1000.

If you're limited to one sub and you can afford to spend more up front, the Rythmik LV12R - by all accounts - will outperform the PB-1000.

Changing my mind, just caught on that you're a fellow canuck. Although there are not much reported reliability issue with the Rythmik sub, stuff can break and having to deal with it across border could be a expensive hassle. I've purchased a couple of SVS from SBA last year and the service was fantastic! Leave it to me, one of the sub's amp went south on me and it was a breeze to get a new one. I reported it broken Friday late afternoon and Tuesday early afternoon, it was in my hands. That counts for a lot.

Like eljaycanuck mentioned, the PB-1000 would be outperformed by the Rythmik as it's just more sub, but for the ease of dealing on this side of the border, I would stick with SVS.

cheers
jproy13 is offline  
post #9 of 39 Old 11-18-2013, 06:19 AM
AVS Special Member
 
steve nn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 6,207
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 425
Quote:
Originally Posted by jproy13 View Post

Changing my mind, just caught on that you're a fellow canuck. Although there are not much reported reliability issue with the Rythmik sub, stuff can break and having to deal with it across border could be a expensive hassle. I've purchased a couple of SVS from SBA last year and the service was fantastic! Leave it to me, one of the sub's amp went south on me and it was a breeze to get a new one. I reported it broken Friday late afternoon and Tuesday early afternoon, it was in my hands. That counts for a lot.

Like eljaycanuck mentioned, the PB-1000 would be outperformed by the Rythmik as it's just more sub, but for the ease of dealing on this side of the border, I would stick with SVS.

cheers

Makes total sense to me, good decision imo. Who has your back Jack...

Klipsch RB-75
Klipsch C-7
Klipsch RB-35
On-going SW management class
Denon
PS3
steve nn is offline  
post #10 of 39 Old 11-18-2013, 06:31 AM
AVS Special Member
 
basshead81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Fort Wayne, IN
Posts: 5,870
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Liked: 1403
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcwhammie View Post

Last black friday I bought the Outlaw LFM-1plus for $500 or $550 shipped. I recommend you wait a few weeks and see if there are similar deals for the above subs.

Just sayin if he waits a few weeks the black friday sales will be long gone lol. That is a good deal tho.
basshead81 is offline  
post #11 of 39 Old 11-18-2013, 12:03 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
cisco kid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Never Never Land
Posts: 124
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Thanks for the feedback guys. Consensus seems to be the Rhythmik and SVS

I was looking at the B stock SVS SB12-NSD-OUTLET-P but it is out of stock and the HSU VTF-2 MK4 is very enticing at $529, If I could get that as a shipped price I think i would just grab it

I will also watch for the Outlaw LMF-1 EX

Is the BIC a decent unit though if one was to consider 2 of them?

I am currenty using a Onkyo TX SR 605 but I have debated upgrading my receiver to either an Onkyo 717/818 or Marantz SR5006 AV Receiver through acc4less, Would be great to find receiver and amp for 1K
cisco kid is offline  
post #12 of 39 Old 11-18-2013, 12:42 PM
AVS Special Member
 
jproy13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: East of West, Canada
Posts: 1,194
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 23
You are aware that SVS has a Canadian retailer right? I'm asking because I'm on Sonic Boom Audio's site and I don't see B stock
jproy13 is offline  
post #13 of 39 Old 11-18-2013, 12:56 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
cisco kid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Never Never Land
Posts: 124
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by jproy13 View Post

You are aware that SVS has a Canadian retailer right? I'm asking because I'm on Sonic Boom Audio's site and I don't see B stock

I order from USA as I have a USA mailing address 40 minutes from home and I am there pretty much every 2 weeks, sometimes weekly between boating and motorbiking stuff plus gas is way way cheaper than in BC

http://www.svsound.com/outlet-specials
cisco kid is offline  
post #14 of 39 Old 11-18-2013, 01:29 PM
AVS Special Member
 
jproy13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: East of West, Canada
Posts: 1,194
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 23
Ah ok. Well you always have these guys for back up. Prices are the same as in the U.S.
jproy13 is offline  
post #15 of 39 Old 11-18-2013, 01:41 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Hopinater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,496
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Liked: 503
Quote:
Originally Posted by cisco kid View Post


I order from USA as I have a USA mailing address 40 minutes from home and I am there pretty much every 2 weeks, sometimes weekly between boating and motorbiking stuff plus gas is way way cheaper than in BC

http://www.svsound.com/outlet-specials

Well that throws the the Rythmik back into serious consideration again I would imagine. Based on that information my picks for a single sub would go in the following order:

1. Rythmik

2. SVS PB 1000

3. Outlaw or Hsu. Because of shipping costs these lose some of their attraction.

 

As a note, I second what eljay said regarding the room size. In my mind it's not small or medium, I think its beginning to push the lower limits of large and I think you you will be far happier down the road getting dual subs in there. If that scenario is an option then I agree with eljay's advice on buying a PB 1000 now and a second one later once you can save up a bit. Also, as jproy pointed out, I really like the warranty that SVS offers. I like peace of mind.

Hopinater is offline  
post #16 of 39 Old 11-18-2013, 04:23 PM
AVS Special Member
 
shadyJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 6,521
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 144 Post(s)
Liked: 496
Wait and see what Outlaw does on Black Friday. If they put the EX up for $600 shipped, go for it. It will be much more powerful than any of those other subs. The only $600 sub that could give the Outlaw a run for its money is this Dayton, but only above 30 Hz. If you don't need the really deep bass, just go for that kit now, it will be superior to them all above 30 Hz.
shadyJ is online now  
post #17 of 39 Old 11-18-2013, 05:06 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Hopinater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,496
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Liked: 503
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post

Wait and see what Outlaw does on Black Friday. If they put the EX up for $600 shipped, go for it. It will be much more powerful than any of those other subs. The only $600 sub that could give the Outlaw a run for its money is this Dayton, but only above 30 Hz. If you don't need the really deep bass, just go for that kit now, it will be superior to them all above 30 Hz.

This is a good option. But it will take some patience to see what Outlaw decides to do. But if you can get the EX for $600 shipped then I agree with shady, its a good option for a single sub.

Hopinater is offline  
post #18 of 39 Old 11-18-2013, 08:20 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
cisco kid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Never Never Land
Posts: 124
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopinater View Post

This is a good option. But it will take some patience to see what Outlaw decides to do. But if you can get the EX for $600 shipped then I agree with shady, its a good option for a single sub.

I can afford to wait as not moving into new home till Jan so I want to take advantage of any sales on things we are collecting

Its gonna come down to one of the following

http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/vtf-2mk4.html

http://www.outlawaudio.com/products/lfmEX.html

http://www.rythmikaudio.com/LV12R.html


If either the HSU VTF-3 MK4 Subwoofer or the SB12-NSD, 12" NSD come down to near $600 shipped I will step up to one of them. You guys have corrupted me as my budget has raised slightly , lol. It will be about the best price on 1 of the above, so free shipping will pay a big part.
cisco kid is offline  
post #19 of 39 Old 11-18-2013, 09:26 PM
AVS Special Member
 
shadyJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 6,521
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 144 Post(s)
Liked: 496
I wouldn't group the SB12 with the others, it is a different design with a different goal. If you are looking at sealed designs, the Dayton kit I mentioned above will spank it anyway. Also the VTF3 will never hit $600 shipped. You will be lucky to see the Outlaw EX hit $600 shipped, but it's worth waiting till Black Friday to see, as it has happened in the past.
shadyJ is online now  
post #20 of 39 Old 11-19-2013, 06:56 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Hopinater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,496
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Liked: 503
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post

I wouldn't group the SB12 with the others, it is a different design with a different goal. If you are looking at sealed designs, the Dayton kit I mentioned above will spank it anyway. Also the VTF3 will never hit $600 shipped. You will be lucky to see the Outlaw EX hit $600 shipped, but it's worth waiting till Black Friday to see, as it has happened in the past.

Yep, if you're going to go with the SVS then it should be the PB12-NSD.

Hopinater is offline  
post #21 of 39 Old 11-19-2013, 07:51 AM
AVS Special Member
 
flickhtguru's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Lebanon, PA
Posts: 2,458
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 105
I believe last year Outlaw Audio made the statement that $629 was the new lowest sales price for the EX shipped. The Plus should be on sale for $499 shipped whenever the next sale is. Back when I bought my dual Plus's my only regret is that I didn't buy the EX's. Don't get me wrong I love the Plus's, but for $100 more I could've had dual EX's. That was the last time the EX's were sold for $549 shipped.

If the Plus does go on sale for $499 shipped it is hands down the best $500 sub. If it does not go on sale the PB1000 would be the best $500 sub. The LV12R would be the best $600 sub, the XV15 is the best $800 sub and the VTF-15H is probably the best $1k sub.

Shawn
flickhtguru is offline  
post #22 of 39 Old 11-19-2013, 09:11 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
cisco kid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Never Never Land
Posts: 124
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Will wait till the 29th to see what I can get. Its only another 10 days now
cisco kid is offline  
post #23 of 39 Old 11-19-2013, 02:28 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Hopinater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,496
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Liked: 503
Quote:
Originally Posted by flickhtguru View Post

If the Plus does go on sale for $499 shipped it is hands down the best $500 sub. If it does not go on sale the PB1000 would be the best $500 sub. The LV12R would be the best $600 sub, the XV15 is the best $800 sub and the VTF-15H is probably the best $1k sub.
Interesting, this brings up a good point that just occurred to me. Something that helped me decide to get the PSA XV15 over the PB12-NSD was the price. At $769 the PB12 was only $30 less than the XV15. So for a measly $30 more I could get the more powerful XV15. Had the PB12-NSD been $700 it would have been much more enticing, in fact I think I would have bought it. I figured I would be happy with either one but $30 is well worth moving up to the XV15 IMO.
 
So this post made me realize we are lacking is a great option at the $700 slot. I know the Hsu VTF-3 MK4 is $700 but once the shipping is added it blows past that price point. 
Hopinater is offline  
post #24 of 39 Old 11-19-2013, 03:47 PM
AVS Special Member
 
basshead81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Fort Wayne, IN
Posts: 5,870
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Liked: 1403
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopinater View Post


Thats why I like the PC12NSD for 699.00. However what kept me from going with the PB/PC12NSD was for not much more money I could get a sub with 4-8db more output above 30hz and still have a 5yr warranty. Since I listen to alot of music at loud levels, imo the extra output above 30hz was a must. Plus the downfiring subs make great end tables.
basshead81 is offline  
post #25 of 39 Old 11-19-2013, 04:36 PM
AVS Special Member
 
flickhtguru's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Lebanon, PA
Posts: 2,458
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 105
^^^ The PC12NSD for $699 was just a sale. If you look at SVS's website the PC12NSD is now $749 again.

Shawn
flickhtguru is offline  
post #26 of 39 Old 11-19-2013, 04:46 PM
AVS Special Member
 
basshead81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Fort Wayne, IN
Posts: 5,870
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Liked: 1403
Ahh I see...Thanks!

Fwiw they often are available in the outlet section for that price. Currently there is a PB12NSD for 699.00.
basshead81 is offline  
post #27 of 39 Old 11-19-2013, 05:11 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
cisco kid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Never Never Land
Posts: 124
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

Ahh I see...Thanks!

Fwiw they often are available in the outlet section for that price. Currently there is a PB12NSD for 699.00.

Not any longer, Its gone already and was not to me.
cisco kid is offline  
post #28 of 39 Old 11-19-2013, 06:29 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Hopinater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,496
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Liked: 503
Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post


Thats why I like the PC12NSD for 699.00. However what kept me from going with the PB/PC12NSD was for not much more money I could get a sub with 4-8db more output above 30hz and still have a 5yr warranty. Since I listen to alot of music at loud levels, imo the extra output above 30hz was a must. Plus the downfiring subs make great end tables.

Yeah I checked on the price of the PC 12 NSD before I submitted that post because I thought it had been $699 when I was shopping a few weeks back and was going to mention it, the reason I didn't go with it was the cylinder design and WAF. But when I checked today I saw it was $749 so it just verified my thinking, we need a good $700 sub to choose from. 

Hopinater is offline  
post #29 of 39 Old 11-19-2013, 06:56 PM
AVS Special Member
 
steve nn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 6,207
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 425
If you could pick up one of these it would be close to two of the NSD’s for close to the same price! http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/classifieds-speakers-subwoofers/67341-svs-pc-12-one-pair.html The PLUS is a great sub.

Klipsch RB-75
Klipsch C-7
Klipsch RB-35
On-going SW management class
Denon
PS3
steve nn is offline  
post #30 of 39 Old 11-19-2013, 07:16 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Hopinater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,496
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Liked: 503
Quote:
Originally Posted by steve nn View Post

If you could pick up one of these it would be close to two of the NSD’s for close to the same price! http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/classifieds-speakers-subwoofers/67341-svs-pc-12-one-pair.html The PLUS is a great sub.

Yep that's a great deal. But I think at that price I would stretch the budget as far as possible and get both. I mean really, a pair of PC 12+ for the price of one? Too good to pass up (as long as they are in as good as condition as he says they are).

Hopinater is offline  
Reply Subwoofers, Bass, and Transducers

Tags
Klipsch Wf 34 Icon W Series , Klipsch Wc24 2 Way Center Channel Loudspeaker Espresso , Klipsch Ws 24 Icon W Series Furniture Grade Surround Speaker Espresso Each , Dayton Audio Sub 1200 12 120 Watt Powered Subwoofer , Polk Audio Psw505 12 Inch Powered Subwoofer Single Black , Bic Pl 200 Acoustech Platinum Series Subwoofer , Bic America F12 12 Inch 475 Watt Front Firing Powered Subwoofer , Svs Pb1000 10 Inch 300 Watt Powered Subwoofer , Rythmik Audio Lv12r
Gear in this thread - Psw505 by PriceGrabber.com

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off