Dual SVS PB13-ULTRA or Dual Seaton Submersive (Slave) or Dual Rythmik FV15HP - AVS Forum
View Poll Results: What dual sub solution would you recommend for this 16 X 27 X 9 room?
Dual SVS PB13-ULTRA's 18 19.57%
DUAL Seaton Submersive HP+ (Master/Slave) 33 35.87%
DUAL Seaton Submersive F2+ (Master/Slave) 14 15.22%
Dual Rhythmik FV15HP 27 29.35%
Voters: 92. You may not vote on this poll

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post #1 of 200 Old 11-19-2013, 03:02 PM - Thread Starter
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We are currently designing house plans for a new home that will include a dedicated theater room. Currently, we have the theater room drawn up at 16 X 27  with 9 foot ceilings (See image below). This room will be over a garage. There should be attic space on each side so side sub placement is possible. I'm going to use an acoustically transparent screen. I'm leaning toward Klipsch THX speakers for the fronts/surrounds. I was strongly leaning toward dual SVS PB13 Ultras. However, many on this site say that dual Seaton Submersives would be an upgrade. The new master/slave option makes this an attractive option due to pricing. I'm potentially interested in dual HP+ or F2+ (Master/Slave option).  I was thinking that one in the front and one in the rear would work well in the long room.

 

The fact that Seaton seems to be more of a guy than a company bothers me a bit. I sent an email to sales@seatonsound.net and never got a response. I sent a message to SVS and got a response in a couple of hours. It scares me a bit to consider spending that kind of money when the Seaton company doesn't seem to be reachable and there isn't even a website.

 

Any suggestions sub/speaker/company choice would be appreciated. I'm looking for suggestions on how I should design the room for sub placement as well. Should I build in an area in the back for a center sub etc.  In the other thread, Phil (other thread) suggested that I take a look a look at Rythmik FV15HP subs. This theater will be 95% movies and tv...5% music. I currently never just sit in a room and listen to music...but I might.... a little bit... if it sounds awesome. I am a software developer/programmer. I don't have enough confidence in my building skills to go the DIY route...although some of the detailed build posts on this site make me think about it. Thanks in advance. 

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post #2 of 200 Old 11-20-2013, 07:54 AM
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For a room that size and only going with 2 subs, I would definately go ported. I voted FV15HP because it has 9db more output over the PB13U @ 12hz and is lees money just in case you decide a 3 or 4th is needed.
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post #3 of 200 Old 11-20-2013, 08:34 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

For a room that size and only going with 2 subs, I would definately go ported. I voted FV15HP because it has 9db more output over the PB13U @ 12hz and is lees money just in case you decide a 3 or 4th is needed.

Thanks for the input. I notice that you say "only" two subs. Do you think that two subs of this caliber would not be enough for this room? If so, should I look to design the room for 4? I was thinking about going with two and putting them center wall...front and back.  I'm not the type to buy and sell. Whatever I end up going with will probably be somewhat permanent unless something breaks. I am not rolling in dollars ...but want to do it right the first time. Otherwise,it will irritate me forever. I'm not looking to be blown out of my seat with bass...but do want "big" scenes in movies to have power and impact. The design of the front of the room will be flexible since I will have a false wall. I could add subs behind that as necessary. In the back, I will have to design something up front...such has a column or shelf to hide the subs...so not as much flexibility there. 

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post #4 of 200 Old 11-20-2013, 09:03 AM
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Seaton Sound is 100% reputable and legit, and their products are world class. They totally have a website that they're in the process of slowly upgrading, and it contains links to their forums, their social media presence, and Mark's phone number. I'm not sure why you thought they didn't. Dispel any other notions or fears you had regarding them. The best way to get in touch with him is by phone, although I think PM on this site would work too. Look up the username Mark Seaton here.

I'm totally in the tank for sealed designs, but the Rhythmik FV15HP is probably the only ported offering I'd ever personally consider because of its very respectable measured output to 12.5Hz. I think the Seaton HP+ and the Rhythmik choices are your best bet out of the options you've given, but I agree with basshead81 that you should really consider more. You're going to need more bass output if you want to get reference level audio across the entire bandwidth.

You're building a theater, and you wanna get it right the first time. One of the best design objectives is to build with a fair bit of headroom over what you think you'll need/want so that no component of the system is overworked. wink.gif If you haven't already, check out the dedicated theater construction forum here at AVS. They'll be able to offer a lot of help in designing & filling your space.

You should consider JTR Captivator S2 subs. I say this because they likely offer a substantial increase in output over the Submersive HP+ for not a large increase in price - you could likely get away with just two of these badboys in your room, though three is probably the sweetspot. JTR, like Seaton Sound, is a small but world class operation where the best method of contact is by phone. Here's their website with all the info you might need to contact them.

Heck, you really might consider JTR's Noesis 212HT speakers, too. They're a little more expensive, but will likely be a significant upgrade to your Klipsch THX speakers. See what sort of package Jeff Permanian over at JTR Speakers can put together for you.

Lastly, have you considered DIY? You could save yourself a ton of money going with DIY, and probably tailor the subs & speakers to your exact needs a lot more easily...
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post #5 of 200 Old 11-20-2013, 09:31 AM
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^^ 100% agree with everything Nube mentioned. The 212's are no joke, 3 of them behind your screen would be awesome but to save some cash and since you are 95% movie, three 228's should work just fine.
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post #6 of 200 Old 11-20-2013, 09:47 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nube View Post

Seaton Sound is 100% reputable and legit, and their products are world class. They totally have a website that they're in the process of slowly upgrading, and it contains links to their forums, their social media presence, and Mark's phone number. I'm not sure why you thought they didn't. 

Sorry, I didn't word that very well. I meant an eCommerce website with detailed product information and the ability to place orders. The forums do provide that stuff...but it does seem less professional. Thanks for the great information.  I tried to reach Seaton via the email link but never got a response. I thought that email might be easier for them so that they could respond at their convenience. Unfortunately, their convenience ended up being never...:).  I will try calling them instead.

 

 I have been looking at the build posts. My theater will be very similar to the Cinemar theater...appearance wise. I want the two rows of seats and the rear bar.  I've ordered some fabric samples...maybe looking to go blue and black with some outer space panels. I'm not very good at woodworking...so the DIY stuff scares me a bit. Thanks again for the reply!

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post #7 of 200 Old 11-20-2013, 09:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Romans828 View Post

Thanks for the input. I notice that you say "only" two subs. Do you think that two subs of this caliber would not be enough for this room? If so, should I look to design the room for 4? I was thinking about going with two and putting them center wall...front and back.  I'm not the type to buy and sell. Whatever I end up going with will probably be somewhat permanent unless something breaks. I not rolling in dollars ...but want to do it right the first time. Otherwise,it will irritate me forever. I'm not looking to be blown out of my seat with bass...but do want "big" scenes in movies to have power and impact. The design of the front of the room will be flexible since I will have a false wall. I could add subs behind that as necessary. In the back, I will have to design something up front...such has a column or shelf to hide the subs...so not as much flexibility there. 

If would go with 3- 4 for that room for better coverage across the seats and more headroom down low. Check out the ULF thread that Dominguez created.

Dual FV15HP's in a 3880^3 room would net you a ULF score of 1021(4 star) @ 12hz. Meaning you will have reference capability down @ 12.5hz

Dual Seaton SubM HP+ would net a ULF score of 1293(3.5 star) @ 12hz which will not quite make reference below 20hz. However the SubM will extend deeper.

Now here is the Kicker, The Seaton SubM HP+ slave combo is 3690.00 plus shipping. You can get 3 Rythmik FV15HP's for 3441.00 plus shipping.

3 FV15HP's will net you a ULF score of 808(4 star) @ 12hz. Meaning you will have a Reference Capable system down to 12hz. Imo a 4 star system is what one wants for a true ULF experience for movies. So depending on your budget the Rythmik appears to be the cheapest option to get achieve that goal.

I will say the Seaton is one of the most highly regarded subs, but the Rythmik is no slouch and had great reviews at the 2012 gtg.
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post #8 of 200 Old 11-20-2013, 09:52 AM
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+1.
3 or 4 FV15hps for the money any day.
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post #9 of 200 Old 11-20-2013, 09:56 AM - Thread Starter
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I read "somewhere" on this site that odd numbers of subs are not a good idea in rectangular rooms. Would two in the front and one in the center rear mess things up acoustically?

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post #10 of 200 Old 11-20-2013, 09:58 AM
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Not sure how this would match up to the subs suggested, But how about 4 PSA XS30's which would be $4366.20 shipped (unless PSA gives an even greater discount when buying 4 subs.

Shawn
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post #11 of 200 Old 11-20-2013, 10:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nube View Post

Seaton Sound is 100% reputable and legit, and their products are world class. They totally have a website that they're in the process of slowly upgrading, and it contains links to their forums, their social media presence, and Mark's phone number. I'm not sure why you thought they didn't. Dispel any other notions or fears you had regarding them. The best way to get in touch with him is by phone, although I think PM on this site would work too. Look up the username Mark Seaton here.

I'm totally in the tank for sealed designs, but the Rhythmik FV15HP is probably the only ported offering I'd ever personally consider because of its very respectable measured output to 12.5Hz. I think the Seaton HP+ and the Rhythmik choices are your best bet out of the options you've given, but I agree with basshead81 that you should really consider more. You're going to need more bass output if you want to get reference level audio across the entire bandwidth.

You're building a theater, and you wanna get it right the first time. One of the best design objectives is to build with a fair bit of headroom over what you think you'll need/want so that no component of the system is overworked. wink.gif If you haven't already, check out the dedicated theater construction forum here at AVS. They'll be able to offer a lot of help in designing & filling your space.

You should consider JTR Captivator S2 subs. I say this because they likely offer a substantial increase in output over the Submersive HP+ for not a large increase in price - you could likely get away with just two of these badboys in your room, though three is probably the sweetspot. JTR, like Seaton Sound, is a small but world class operation where the best method of contact is by phone. Here's their website with all the info you might need to contact them.

Heck, you really might consider JTR's Noesis 212HT speakers, too. They're a little more expensive, but will likely be a significant upgrade to your Klipsch THX speakers. See what sort of package Jeff Permanian over at JTR Speakers can put together for you.

Lastly, have you considered DIY? You could save yourself a ton of money going with DIY, and probably tailor the subs & speakers to your exact needs a lot more easily...

Hell just the JTR 228HT's are an upgrade over the Klipsch Ultra 2 speakers IMO. And I'm not the first person to say that either.

One thing for the OP to keep in mind when saying things "like a sent an email and never got a response" just pick up the phone and call. Both Seaton and JTR and small companies and the brains behind the operations for both are usually out actually building speakers not sitting at a desk waiting for emails to come in or working on a webpage.

Both brands have MAJOR followings on the forums for good reasons.
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post #12 of 200 Old 11-20-2013, 10:05 AM - Thread Starter
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I emailed Rhythmik and they offer a 10% discount when you buy multiples. 

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post #13 of 200 Old 11-20-2013, 10:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

 Both Seaton and JTR and small companies and the brains behind the operations for both are usually out actually building speakers not sitting at a desk waiting for emails to come in or working on a webpage.

 

 

I am a software developer. Maybe we should trade a website for subs....:D

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post #14 of 200 Old 11-20-2013, 10:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Romans828 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by nube View Post

Seaton Sound is 100% reputable and legit, and their products are world class. They totally have a website that they're in the process of slowly upgrading, and it contains links to their forums, their social media presence, and Mark's phone number. I'm not sure why you thought they didn't. 
Sorry, I didn't word that very well. I meant an eCommerce website with detailed product information and the ability to place orders. The forums do provide that stuff...but it does seem less professional. Thanks for the great information.  I tried to reach Seaton via the email link but never got a response. I thought that email might be easier for them so that they could respond at their convenience. Unfortunately, their convenience ended up being never...smile.gif .  I will try calling them instead.

 I have been looking at the build posts. My theater will be very similar to the Cinemar theater...appearance wise. I want the two rows of seats and the rear bar.  I've ordered some fabric samples...maybe looking to go blue and black with some outer space panels. I'm not very good at woodworking...so the DIY stuff scares me a bit. Thanks again for the reply!

You should really, really strongly consider JTR if you go with pre-built stuff. I personally think they're a slightly better value than Seaton, but both are excellent. In my mind, each JTR Captivator S2 is equal to two Seaton Submersive HP. Turns out the guys on the Your Home Theater ULF Score thread agree. wink.gif That implies that you're getting around double the output from an S2 for only about 25% more money. Granted, the HP+Slave option changes this, but consider that an HP+Slave is about the same output as a single Captivator S2, but for ~20% more money. And, I don't think that'll be enough output for you anyway, as I said before.

But, instead of going down the rather imprecise rabbit hole of comparing the price/output value of subs, let's talk DIY. Well, rather, for you I'd recommend the Assemble It Yourself (AIY) option. You can find a ton of info here in the DIY forum about the AIY options from DIY Sound Group (owned by Erich here at AVS forums). With the AIY option, everything is included, and all you do is basically assemble and glue, paint, install speakers & crossovers, and go. They have assembly videos showing you exactly how easy it is. You can even get them to build the crossovers for you!

The DIY Sound Group's best values (in my opinion), and best direct competition to the Klipsch horn speakers, are the SEOS waveguide speaker kits. In particular, for your size room, the Fusion-15 Sentinel kit is probably the right choice for your L/C/R. Erich could definitely recommend additional options, as well as a solid package that includes surrounds and rears. If you went this route, you'd really save yourself some cash but not sacrifice any output!

You could also buy their AIY flatpacks for subs!!! This would really save you some serious, serious cash. I'd recommend at least 4x of these 4cuft sealed AIY cabinets with the cutout for the Stereo Integrity 18" driver. The Stereo Integrity 18" drivers can be ordered here: http://stereointegrity.com/index.php?id=60. Once you get the kits glued up, painted, and the drivers installed into the cabinets, all you need is amps, cabling, and some way to EQ the subs. Figuring that stuff out is fairly easy!

The room layout I'd tentatively recommend would be two subs up front, on either side of your center channel behind the screen, then one on either side of your front row of seating. Though, this is where the dedicated theater construction forum gurus would probably know best. You might even be served well by moving up to 6x of these, and putting the remaining two in the rear corners of your room.

The great thing about that DIY Sound Group website is that it is totally legit, you can order online, payments are done via Paypal, and they're quick to ship - likely quicker than any of the options you've mentioned here besides maybe SVS. I've ordered quite a bit from them, and personally know others who have too - always exactly as advertised with no surprises. smile.gif
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post #15 of 200 Old 11-20-2013, 10:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Romans828 View Post

I am a software developer. Maybe we should trade a website for subs....biggrin.gif

haha I thought the same thing after going to Rythmik's site.
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post #16 of 200 Old 11-20-2013, 12:07 PM
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This might be the most educational thread I've ever read regarding high quality high output subwoofers as well as placement. Then nube kicked it up a notch farther with the DIY and AIY post. Great information guys.  

 

Since nube brought up the topic of DIY and AIY I'd like to ask a question who's answer might be something the OP would be interested in as well. I've stayed away from DIY in the past simply because of the concept of speaker engineering. It always seemed to me that the reputable companies spend a lot of time and money on R&D and then make compromises to hit different price points. And yes, I understand the concept of marketing hype. That said, I have seen enough posts to begin to believe that a DIY sub can beat a manufactured sub. But speakers seem to be a bit more involved.

 

So here's my question, how do these SEOS waveguide speakers compare to other speakers out there? I guess what I'm asking is where do they stack up against the manufactured speakers on the market, what are they comparable to in performance, sound quality and price point?  I have an idea about what a Dayton DIY sub is comparable to in the sub market but I am clueless when it comes to speaker DIY kits (I'm assuming the OP might be in the same boat). I'm asking this here instead of on the DIY Forum only because I thought the OP might be interested in the answer since nube brought it up as a good option (I may take this to that forum as well). 

 

Thanks again guys.   

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post #17 of 200 Old 11-20-2013, 12:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flickhtguru View Post

Not sure how this would match up to the subs suggested, But how about 4 PSA XS30's which would be $4366.20 shipped (unless PSA gives an even greater discount when buying 4 subs.

The XS30's are not going have near the output of the FV15HP's in the 12-20hz range. They will have alot more output above 30hz. Sealed is not the answer foe the OP's room unless were talking about Cap S2's, PSA Triax's, or DIY.
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post #18 of 200 Old 11-20-2013, 12:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopinater View Post
 

This might be the most educational thread I've ever read regarding high quality high output subwoofers as well as placement. Then nube kicked it up a notch farther with the DIY and AIY post. Great information guys.  

 

Since nube brought up the topic of DIY and AIY I'd like to ask a question who's answer might be something the OP would be interested in as well. I've stayed away from DIY in the past simply because of the concept of speaker engineering. It always seemed to me that the reputable companies spend a lot of time and money on R&D and then make compromises to hit different price points. And yes, I understand the concept of marketing hype. That said, I have seen enough posts to begin to believe that a DIY sub can beat a manufactured sub. But speakers seem to be a bit more involved.

 

So here's my question, how do these SEOS waveguide speakers compare to other speakers out there? I guess what I'm asking is where do they stack up against the manufactured speakers on the market, what are they comparable to in performance, sound quality and price point?  I have an idea about what a Dayton DIY sub is comparable to in the sub market but I am clueless when it comes to speaker DIY kits (I'm assuming the OP might be in the same boat). I'm asking this here instead of on the DIY Forum only because I thought the OP might be interested in the answer since nube brought it up as a good option (I may take this to that forum as well). 

 

Thanks again guys.   

Hopinater, you read my mind. That was my next question as well. Since I've never been able to hear any of these manufactured subs, I would always think in the back of my head that my DIY sub was kind of a cheap option...not in the same league/quality as the well known manufactured subs/speakers. Even if it sounded good, I would be wondering how much better it would be if I went with a proven sub/speaker. By the way, everyone...feel free to post anything useful on this thread. I sure won't mind. The goal is to gain knowledge. 

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post #19 of 200 Old 11-20-2013, 12:57 PM - Thread Starter
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The XS30's are not going have near the output of the FV15HP's in the 12-20hz range. They will have alot more output above 30hz. Sealed is not the answer foe the OP's room unless were talking about Cap S2's, PSA Triax's, or DIY.

The only reason that I haven't been looking closely at the JTR Captivator S2 is price. Based on my research, many recommend at least two subs in a room this size to balance things out. Two Captivators are pretty expensive. If they came out with something like the Seaton slave option, that might put the price in a more reasonable range. 

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post #20 of 200 Old 11-20-2013, 01:12 PM
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Hi nube, is it really that easy to build a sub? I am a software developer as well and my biggest fear is the sub never sound right.

So let say i buy the cabinets from http://www.diysoundgroup.com/subwoofer-flatpacks-2/sealed-subwoofer-flatpacks/4-sub-flat-pack.html.
And buy The Stereo Integrity 18" driver http://stereointegrity.com/index.php?id=60.

All i have to do is install the driver into the cabinet.

And after that get a amp and that is it?
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post #21 of 200 Old 11-20-2013, 02:03 PM
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I voted for two Rythmik FV15HPs simply because I think they offer the best value especially when buying multiples, although the Submersives would be nice if you feel you have the spare coin just lying around doing nothing.

DIY can easily sound as good/better than a finished sub option but if you go DIY and this is your first crack at it I would suggest sticking with sealed alignments. Building a sealed box is easy cos the only metric you need to get right is the volume (internal space - not loudness). Of course it needs to be totally airtight and very strong and you have to finish it yourself too.

femi - Add to that list of things required - a microphone that works with REW (such as a UMIK-1), a device for EQ (eg. mini DSP), accessories (feet, cable, connections) and finishing (paint etc.). I don't consider any of these items to be optional. I'm running a couple of sealed SI HT18 D2s in custom 4cuft boxes run off a CV-5000 at the moment and it's pretty epic in 4000cuft. I could add a couple more drivers to that amp but a) I'm not sure I need to and b) I don't currently have the space.
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post #22 of 200 Old 11-20-2013, 03:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopinater View Post

This might be the most educational thread I've ever read regarding high quality high output subwoofers as well as placement. Then nube kicked it up a notch farther with the DIY and AIY post. Great information guys.  

Since nube brought up the topic of DIY and AIY I'd like to ask a question who's answer might be something the OP would be interested in as well. I've stayed away from DIY in the past simply because of the concept of speaker engineering. It always seemed to me that the reputable companies spend a lot of time and money on R&D and then make compromises to hit different price points. And yes, I understand the concept of marketing hype. That said, I have seen enough posts to begin to believe that a DIY sub can beat a manufactured sub. But speakers seem to be a bit more involved.

So here's my question, how do these SEOS waveguide speakers compare to other speakers out there? I guess what I'm asking is where do they stack up against the manufactured speakers on the market, what are they comparable to in performance, sound quality and price point?  I have an idea about what a Dayton DIY sub is comparable to in the sub market but I am clueless when it comes to speaker DIY kits (I'm assuming the OP might be in the same boat). I'm asking this here instead of on the DIY Forum only because I thought the OP might be interested in the answer since nube brought it up as a good option (I may take this to that forum as well). 

Thanks again guys.   
That's pretty much the beauty of these AIY kits or pre-designed recommendations from recognized DIY speaker designers. They've got years of experience and have designed the kits or the bill of materials for a very specific purpose, target response, and room size. This is essentially what the retail companies do, too, but these DIY folks have volunteered their time and expertise to do it because they love doing it. And, make no mistake, they're really, REALLY good at what they do!

Never having used an AIY kit, but having built some DIY SEOS speakers that were designed/specified by bwaslo (a pretty well-respected speaker designer here), I'm of the opinion that these things can be world class for a lot less money. I built mine for ~$550ish each, all-included (still need to get the magnetic grills built), and A/B demo'd them against my friend Pete's B&W 804's in his room, un-EQ'd. He has a really, really good room and pretty serious equipment, and my DIY speakers pooped all over his B&W's. When I say that, it's his words, not mine - they were just magnificently better at essentially everything. The difference was astonishing, to say the least. Here's a direct quote from Pete:
Quote:
I did some two channel listening last night with the subs engaged and crossed at 60Hz. I don't think I've ever heard a better sounding system. The demo room my dealer used to have with five B&W signature 800's might have topped this, but I'm not sure (acoustic memory being what it is). The demo room must have sounded better since the power cables cost more than my whole system.

You can view the build thread and read both our comments about the demos here: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1481313/ae-td12x-ported-mains-build. Disregard the first few posts in that thread modeling the cabinet, but do keep in mind that this was with my own cabinet design, so not nearly as easy or bullet-proof as the AIY options from DIY Sound Group. You can also look up the various build threads of many of their AIY options in that same DIY forum. As far as I've seen, they're all unanimously positive. My experience mirrors everyone else's as far as I can tell.

As for subs, well, they're a lot easier than speakers. The reason why good off-the-shelf speakers & subs are expensive is because the manufacturers gotta eat. Profit is OK, but when everything's done for you, as it is with DIY Sound Group's AIY flat pack speaker kits and sub cabinets, there really is almost no time or work involved. See below.
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Originally Posted by Romans828 View Post

Hopinater, you read my mind. That was my next question as well. Since I've never been able to hear any of these manufactured subs, I would always think in the back of my head that my DIY sub was kind of a cheap option...not in the same league/quality as the well known manufactured subs/speakers. Even if it sounded good, I would be wondering how much better it would be if I went with a proven sub/speaker. By the way, everyone...feel free to post anything useful on this thread. I sure won't mind. The goal is to gain knowledge. 
I realize you wouldn't know without having experienced them yourself firsthand, but your assumption couldn't be farther from the truth. smile.gif The reality is that DIY can be significantly higher quality than any retail/ID option, but it requires you do some work. The amount of work is based on what you want in a finish, mostly, and whether or not you get the cabinets premade for you, as is the case in AIY options. With a simple AIY option that's painted with truck bed liner or flat black paint, you might have a total of 3 hours worth of your own time to get them from the shipping packages to completely built and setup in your theater/room.

I was pretty much a complete newb to DIY subs (besides car subs I built years ago), but with a friend's help, made two shockingly beautiful dual-opposed subs that are individually close to the output of a single Submersive HP, for about $600 EACH. Here's my complete DIY sub build thread. http://www.avsforum.com/t/1428124/ssd-15-dual-opposed-vertical-sub-build The pics are at the beginning, but the whole thread chronicles the build, step-by-step.
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Originally Posted by femi View Post

Hi nube, is it really that easy to build a sub? I am a software developer as well and my biggest fear is the sub never sound right.

So let say i buy the cabinets from http://www.diysoundgroup.com/subwoofer-flatpacks-2/sealed-subwoofer-flatpacks/4-sub-flat-pack.html.
And buy The Stereo Integrity 18" driver http://stereointegrity.com/index.php?id=60.

All i have to do is install the driver into the cabinet.

And after that get a amp and that is it?
That's essentially it, but there is some minutiae that I'd hate to leave out, lest people be led astray thinking that's all. It's pretty easy, but there are a few other steps most people take.

You'll basically need wood glue (Titebond II is great!), some clamps to hold the cab together while the glue dries (though this can likely be accomplished with straps or some brad nails), maybe a sheet of 220grit sandpaper (likely unnecessary), paint or whatever you want to finish the cab with, speaker terminals, some el cheapo Walmart $3 pillows or polyfill batting, a strong stapler or a hot glue gun, a drill/driver, and some 12ga lamp cord or speaker cabling (really cheap at Monoprice). It's likely you already have or can borrow a lot of that stuff.

When the glue is dry, fill any holes with spackle/drywall filler and paint the cabinet. Add polyfill batting (or pillows) to the inside of the cabinet with hot glue or staples - about 1lb/1 pillow per cubic foot of internal space. Then, add wires to the driver (make sure it's the proper wiring for the impedance/load you want to present to the amp) & connect the leads to the speaker terminals that you will have installed into the cabinet.

Install the driver with some 1/8" thick x1/2" wide foam gasket tape (for door/window sealing) underneath it to seal, using relatively strong zip ties to lower it into the box so you don't crush your fingers, and drywall screws with holes pre-drilled. Add a separate amp that has very little signal roll-off. The EP4000 (with a modded fan) is a good option for small builds, but there are other bigger options should you decide to size up.

Unless you have a receiver with Audyssey Mult-EQ XT32, the rest you'll need to do whether or not you have a retail sub or a DIY/AIY sub: buy a miniDSP Balanced 2x4 EQ kit, a measurement mic to connect to your laptop or PC, download REW for free, hook it up, and goto town. I prefer the separate EQ & measurements route compared to the Audyssey route, simply because it's much cheaper and gives a ton more flexibility and options for manual control.

That sounds like a lot, but it's really unbelievably simple and inexpensive once you do it. There's essentially no woodworking required, at all.
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Originally Posted by Avgass View Post

femi - Add to that list of things required - a microphone that works with REW (such as a UMIK-1), a device for EQ (eg. mini DSP), accessories (feet, cable, connections) and finishing (paint etc.). I don't consider any of these items to be optional. I'm running a couple of sealed SI HT18 D2s in custom 4cuft boxes run off a CV-5000 at the moment and it's pretty epic in 4000cuft. I could add a couple more drivers to that amp but a) I'm not sure I need to and b) I don't currently have the space.
Yep, all good info. smile.gif
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post #23 of 200 Old 11-20-2013, 03:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Wow :eek:...Awesome post LOADED with good information! Thanks!

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post #24 of 200 Old 11-20-2013, 03:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post


Hell just the JTR 228HT's are an upgrade over the Klipsch Ultra 2 speakers IMO. And I'm not the first person to say that either.

 

I'm sure they are awesome speakers but it's hard to find a lot of reviews and information about them. It drives me nuts that the JTR website doesn't even have pictures of the subs/speakers (Residential Section). I had to do a Google image search to see what they looked like. 

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post #25 of 200 Old 11-20-2013, 04:32 PM
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Hi Nube. I come from a car sub background too (bout 3 installs back in the day). My HT subs have a few elements which are similar to yours. Will have to get round to doing a build thread someday soon. I would just add to your post that Audyssey MultEQ XT32 will not give any low end boost which commercial sealed subs will often have built-in but DIY subs lack. As such, I would say that for a DIY/AIY sub Mult EQ XT32 should not take the place of a dedicated EQ unit of some kind.

Cheers
Phil
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post #26 of 200 Old 11-20-2013, 04:59 PM
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Thanks nube, those builds are pretty amazing to look at, I'm thoroughly impressed. I'm off to look at the DIY forum, I'll report back later. :)

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post #27 of 200 Old 11-20-2013, 05:24 PM
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post


If would go with 3- 4 for that room for better coverage across the seats and more headroom down low. Check out the ULF thread that Dominguez created.

Dual FV15HP's in a 3880^3 room would net you a ULF score of 1021(4 star) @ 12hz. Meaning you will have reference capability down @ 12.5hz

Dual Seaton SubM HP+ would net a ULF score of 1293(3.5 star) @ 12hz which will not quite make reference below 20hz. However the SubM will extend deeper.

Now here is the Kicker, The Seaton SubM HP+ slave combo is 3690.00 plus shipping. You can get 3 Rythmik FV15HP's for 3441.00 plus shipping.

3 FV15HP's will net you a ULF score of 808(4 star) @ 12hz. Meaning you will have a Reference Capable system down to 12hz. Imo a 4 star system is what one wants for a true ULF experience for movies. So depending on your budget the Rythmik appears to be the cheapest option to get achieve that goal.

I will say the Seaton is one of the most highly regarded subs, but the Rythmik is no slouch and had great reviews at the 2012 gtg.

A couple of clarifications...

 

***Remember, these are guidelines. Each room will vary, but most rooms will comply.

 

4 star range was meant to mean that you will likely get reference output anywhere from 16hz to 20hz. Generally speaking, the lower your score in the 4 star range, the more likely you'll get reference output at your given frequency.

 

 

 

The above depicts Dual Rythmik FV15HPs for Romans room.

 

  • At 12.5hz, he is 4 Star, but at that frequency is not likely to be able to get reference output.
  • At 16hz, he is 4 Star, and will likely get Reference output at that frequency
  • At 20hz, he is 4 Star, and will likely get Reference output at that frequency

 

 

The above is if he has 3 FV15HPs

 

  • At 12.5hz he is 4 Star (but a low score), on the edge of getting Reference output (reference is 675).
  • At 16hz, he is 4.5 Star and will likely reach above reference output (certainly reference output)
  • At 20hz, he is 4.5 Star: because he can reach 4.5 star status at 16hz, he can reach 4.5 star status at 20hz
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post #28 of 200 Old 11-20-2013, 07:29 PM
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Well Romans, looks like you get the privilege of deciding between a lot of great choices, not a bad problem to have. 

 

I was just looking at the plans you provided for your theatre, it looks like it will be a pretty cool HT. And I know that after all the help you received in this thread that it's going to sound incredible. When its all finished, can I hang out at your house? :D

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post #29 of 200 Old 11-20-2013, 07:56 PM
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Dominguez, thanks for clearing that up, however I recomended 3 FV15HP's for that reason you pointed out. smile.gif
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post #30 of 200 Old 11-20-2013, 08:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nube View Post

You could also buy their AIY flatpacks for subs!!! This would really save you some serious, serious cash. I'd recommend at least 4x of these 4cuft sealed AIY cabinets with the cutout for the Stereo Integrity 18" driver. The Stereo Integrity 18" drivers can be ordered here: http://stereointegrity.com/index.php?id=60. Once you get the kits glued up, painted, and the drivers installed into the cabinets, all you need is amps, cabling, and some way to EQ the subs. Figuring that stuff out is fairly easy!
 

 

Nube is tempting me with this post. How would one of these AIY cabinets with the Stereo Integrity 18" driver and a good amp stand up against a Rhythmik FV15HP? What amps would be recommended for driving 4 of these?

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