Chest pounding bass SVS, Ryhtmic, HSU, or some other brand? - Page 5 - AVS Forum
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Old 01-01-2014, 05:14 PM
 
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I know. Get's deep around here. tongue.gif
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Old 01-01-2014, 05:22 PM
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Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post


Sorry, absolutely I don't mean to come across as arrogant. Sorry it was perceived that way. But yes, I'm right and everybody else is wrong on this matter. How does one try to communicate a controversial or new concept without coming across as a tool? How does one standby the facts they have learned on a matter, knowing it flies in the face of doctrine? No, I do not wish to upset anybody but what am I do when I realize, everybody else is wrong regarding this concept?

How ever you would like me to phrase things when personal experience has raised my awareness on this issue above opinion and moved my awareness into the fact column?

My apologies to anybody I have caused upset to by sharing this concept.

A point of order: you posted: "Our viewpoints are different, not "in error".

Please reread my comments that your were responding to as I did try to explain my thinking regarding the bias nature of learned thinking.

Yet, I did not post what you posted in quote marks. What I did post was: "This is why I can't argue this point as folks are bias in their thinking (learned thinking) and I can't sway them from the error of their thinking because, they're bias to the reason of what they think they know."

And the "Oh well" was simply the acceptance of the fact that folks are going be in disagreement with me on this issue and there's nothing I can do to sway their thinking and I'm okay with this point.....oh well.

Again, my apologies for my comments causing you upset but I do stand by what I posted.

-

Bee,

 

You should start your own thread on this topic. I'm in the camp that it doesn't matter, but I was also in the camp at one point that (in my room) ported can't shake more than sealed, and that SPL is SPL from a tactile feeling standpoint, and distance should not matter. Until I experienced differently in my room, I didn't challenge the norm.

 

We all might learn something in the process... :cool:

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Old 01-01-2014, 05:34 PM
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Originally Posted by derrickdj1 View Post

Lowell G makes some great points. The PSA, Hsu, Rythmik, Chase, Klipsch and other companies all make some great subwoofers. The few decibels that are touted form one sub over another means very little in the HT unless demo' ing certain tracks. Hitting 130 db is fine but, most of us that value our hearing can't do it for any long time period. Most of us don't even listen at Reference because it is to loud. If shaking is the goal, get some Butt kickers and save a lot of money and your ears, he he. The old saying, buy what you like and like what you buy will always hold true. In audio, there are diminishing returns compared to the dollar cost for small improvements.

I agree with this. There are some here Who keep touting that their sub or subs will hit 5hz. I am wondering what good that is really doing them or anyone else. Where is your everyday source material that's using this ability? Have you taken a look at the movies coming out? If you get anything below 20 you're lucky.

I know I can't listen at reference in my home theater so I know that paying $3k for one sub is ridiculous. If paying that for one is uncalled for, I can't begin speaking towards buying 2, 3, or 4. There is a point of diminishing returns and many of us have hit it and gone beyond it just for the sake of saying we have something others don't. Of course if you are silly enough to fork over the cash, someone will make something for you to buy no matter how much it isn't needed to enjoy your home theater.

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Old 01-01-2014, 05:41 PM
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How do you like your dual VTF-15's Prime?

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Old 01-01-2014, 05:43 PM
 
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Originally Posted by dominguez1 View Post

Bee,

You should start your own thread on this topic. I'm in the camp that it doesn't matter, but I was also in the camp at one point that (in my room) ported can't shake more than sealed, and that SPL is SPL from a tactile feeling standpoint, and distance should not matter. Until I experienced differently in my room, I didn't challenge the norm.

We all might learn something in the process... cool.gif

Well, independent thinking, does have it's downside and breaking through thought barriers does have it's detractors. And if it helps, I'm in the camp that it doesn't matter also. I'm of the opinion, if someone doesn't understand what I'm sharing, the Sun is still going rise somewhere in the East. Personally, I understand the whole tactile sensation thing, that's why I suggest the reason deals with the laws of fluid dynamics; focused energy like a sonic cannon. And like tactile sensation, it doesn't matter if someone agrees with my opinion on this matter or not, as last I checked, the Sun is still going set, somewhere in the West.

Happy New Years dominguez1.

(and I will agree, my choice of words were chosen very poorly and I'll be more careful regarding future posts)
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Old 01-01-2014, 05:54 PM
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How do you like your dual VTF-15's Prime?

I like them quite a bit. When I went into the market, I was looking for the most bang for my buck. The XV-15 was out there but I wanted something front firing....I just like seeing the woofers on my speakers. The next best bang for my buck was the 15H....a little higher in price but had the design I wanted. Got one home and liked the sound but something was missing....I had uneven bass across my theater and I could feel it. So I went and ordered another a month later and that was it. Mission accomplished. Done just right. I don't think I have and I don't think I will come across a movie these babies can't handle and they don't even hit 5hz.

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Old 01-01-2014, 06:04 PM
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Very nice..they seem to have amongst the highest output up to the Rythmik FV15 price point.  As long as you have room to fit them.  I considered HSU as one of my sub options, namely the VTF2 or VTF3.  I ended up not going with HSU as the VTF3 was side firing and would have been an issue with my placement, and I think I ended up with a sllightly better performer than the VTF2.  But I like their subs.  I have their bookshelves and center as my main speakers and very happy with them.

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Old 01-01-2014, 06:11 PM
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Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post


Well, independent thinking, does have it's downside and breaking through thought barriers does have it's detractors. And if it helps, I'm in the camp that it doesn't matter also.

When I said, "I'm in the camp that it doesn't matter", I meant I don't believe subwoofers are designed to be music specific or HT specific. Are you saying you agree with this? Just trying to clarify...if this is not your belief, a thread dedicated to this would help us understand your position better.

 

Happy New Year as well. :)

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Old 01-01-2014, 06:27 PM
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Originally Posted by bear123 View Post

Very nice..they seem to have amongst the highest output up to the Rythmik FV15 price point.  As long as you have room to fit them.  I considered HSU as one of my sub options, namely the VTF2 or VTF3.  I ended up not going with HSU as the VTF3 was side firing and would have been an issue with my placement, and I think I ended up with a sllightly better performer than the VTF2.  But I like their subs.  I have their bookshelves and center as my main speakers and very happy with them.


Sorry if you mentioned it in this thread somewhere but what did you end up with?

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Old 01-01-2014, 06:29 PM
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SVS PB12-NSD. Scheduled to arrive tommorrow :)

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Old 01-01-2014, 06:39 PM
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SVS PB12-NSD. Scheduled to arrive tommorrow smile.gif


From what I've read about it, you got a good sub. What I really like about SVS subs overall is that they have the upgrade program for a year after you buy them. The HSU subs have no such option that come with them. I would have to say that my favorite sub design is the PB-13 Ultra but I refuse to pay that much for one sub.

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Old 01-01-2014, 06:44 PM
 
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Originally Posted by dominguez1 View Post

When I said, "I'm in the camp that it doesn't matter", I meant I don't believe subwoofers are designed to be music specific or HT specific. Are you saying you agree with this?

No, I'm saying I'm in the camp that it doesn't matter if someone agrees with me or not, nor is what I'm posting about, important. That's what I though you were communicating. Once again, got it wrong. tongue.gif

My comment doesn't have to do with what subwoofers are designed for. My comment has to do with the consumer and how what media they choose to be their primary media, makes a difference as to what their choices should be. If someone were to ask me, music or Home Theater, my recommendations would be different because music and Home Theater are two completely different animals and their needs are completely different from each other.

If I were a music head, I would have chosen a pair of PSA XS15s as they'd be more than enough for my music needs. But I'm a Home Theater personality and that's what I'm buying for, my Home Theater habits. I can't afford three Triax or JTR S2s, so I went with a pair of FV15HPs with an eye on a third at the end of this year. Please note the output disparity between a pair of XS15s and three FV15HPs.

-
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Old 01-01-2014, 06:58 PM
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Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

No, I'm saying I'm in the camp that it doesn't matter if someone agrees with me or not, nor is what I'm posting about, important. That's what I though you were communicating. Once again, got it wrong. tongue.gif

My comment doesn't have to do with what subwoofers are designed for. My comment has to do with the consumer and how what medial they choose to be their primary media, makes a difference as to what their choices should be. If someone were to ask me, music or Home Theater, my recommendations would be different because music and Home Theater are two completely different animals and their needs are completely different from each other.

If I were a music head, I would have chosen a pair of PSA XS15s as they'd be more than enough for my music needs. But I'm a Home Theater personality and that's what I'm buying for, my Home Theater habits. I can't afford three Triax or JTR S2s, so I went with a pair of FV15HPs with an eye on a third at the end of this year. Please note the output disparity between a pair of XS15s and three FV15HPs.

So other than the FV15HP's higher output capability which make it a better match for HT demands, is there something else inherently different that would make the FV15HP less suitable for music (other than it may be considered overkill for typical music)?

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Old 01-01-2014, 07:00 PM
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If I were a music head, I would have chosen a pair of PSA XS15s as they'd be more than enough for my music needs. But I'm a Home Theater personality and that's what I'm buying for, my Home Theater habits. I can't afford three Triax or JTR S2s, so I went with a pair of FV15HPs with an eye on a third at the end of this year. Please note the output disparity between a pair of XS15s and three FV15HPs.

I think I'm beginning to see what you are getting at Beeman. It seems your point is if you are really into HT you believe the right sub would be something powerful that digs deep with good SPL and maximum headroom because the effects in the movies are going to demand all that at times and you will want a sub that can handle the demands. Where as music usually does not require the ability to to go as deep or have as much headroom (although some may argue with that). Am I close to your understanding thinking?

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Old 01-01-2014, 07:07 PM
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I think I'm beginning to see what you are getting at Beeman. It seems your point is if you are really into HT you believe the right sub would be something powerful that digs deep with good SPL and maximum headroom because the effects in the movies are going to demand all that at times and you will want a sub that can handle the demands. Where as music usually does not require the ability to to go as deep or have as much headroom (although some may argue with that). Am I close to your understanding thinking?

I was wondering the same thing, but that would mean a great HT sub would also be perfectly suitable for music, albeit it would just be loafing along with most music content. My interpretation of Beeman's position is that a great HT sub would not make an equally great music sub.

My position is that a sub that can accurately handle a movie soundtrack can equally handle music, albeit it may be overkill in a music centric system.

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Old 01-01-2014, 07:09 PM
 
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So other than the FV15HP's higher output capability which make it a better match for HT demands, is there something else inherently different that would make the FV15HP less suitable for music (other than it may be considered overkill for typical music)?

That and it's ported so no. Unless one is filling an assembly hall with music, for a home listening venue, for music, smaller subs would be more appropriate and getting more articulate speakers would be a better expenditure of available monies. If you get powerful subwoofers and you're going use them at low volumes, the subs will never be able to come into their own as they're designed for output. Think power curve.

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I think I'm beginning to see what you are getting at Beeman. It seems your point is if you are really into HT you believe the right sub would be something powerful that digs deep with good SPL and maximum headroom because the effects in the movies are going to demand all that at times and you will want a sub that can handle the demands. Where as music usually does not require the ability to to go as deep or have as much headroom (although some may argue with that). Am I close to your understanding thinking?

Yes.

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I was wondering the same thing, but that would mean a great HT sub would also be perfectly suitable for music, albeit it would just be loafing along with most music content. My interpretation of Beeman's position is that a great HT sub would not make an equally great music sub.

That's my fault, due to my limited ability to communicate ideas. At the same time, how can one recommend three S2s when all one wants is some background music and on the flip side, how can one expect the same articulation from an output monster at low volumes. That's why I post; "music or Home Theater, pick one and let the other one fall where it may."

Example: "Hi, I listen to 70% music and 30% Home Theater and want a system that will make me happy. What should I buy?"

How does anybody insightfully respond to that type of question? So, I reply, Music or Home Theater, pick one and let the other fall where it may. Just saying, if someone wants "chest-pounding-bass," they're going have to buy accordingly or be disappointed. And if they care mostly about music, what do they care about "chest-pounding-bass."

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Old 01-01-2014, 07:14 PM
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I was wondering the same thing, but that would mean a great HT sub would also be perfectly suitable for music, albeit it would just be loafing along with most music content. My interpretation of Beeman's position is that a great HT sub would not make an equally great music sub.

Yeah I agree with you. Which makes me think we are still missing what he's thinking. Because if we are right then the only reason why the HT sub would not be good for music is because it is overkill and most likely cost too much. This is based on the fact that he said "If I were a music head, I would have chosen a pair of PSA XS15s as they'd be more than enough for my music needs." Two XS15s are much cheaper than two FV15HPs.

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Old 01-01-2014, 07:18 PM
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Yeah I agree with you. Which makes me think we are still missing what he's thinking. Because if we are right then the only reason why the HT sub would not be good for music is because it is overkill and most likely cost too much. This is based on the fact that he said "If I were a music head, I would have chosen a pair of PSA XS15s as they'd be more than enough for my music needs." Two XS15s are much cheaper than two FV15HPs.

Exactly.

Do we have this right B?

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Old 01-01-2014, 07:20 PM
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Okay, I see where you are coming from now Beeman. 

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Old 01-01-2014, 07:22 PM
 
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Exactly.

Do we have this right B?

I think so...biggrin.gif

(and my apologies for my choice of words that came across as arrogant)
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Old 01-01-2014, 07:25 PM
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That and it's ported so no. Unless one is filling an assembly hall with music, for a home listening venue, for music, smaller subs would be more appropriate and getting more articulate speakers would be a better expenditure of available monies. If you get powerful subwoofers and you're going use them at low volumes, the subs will never be able to come into their own as they're designed for output. Think power curve.
Yes.
That's my fault, due to my limited ability to communicate ideas. At the same time, how can one recommend three S2s when all one wants is some background music and one the flip side, how can one expect the same articulation out of an output monster at low volumes. That's why I post; "music or Home Theater, pick one and let the other one fall where it may."

Example: "Hi, I listen to 70% music and 30% music and want a system that will make me happy. What should I buy?"

How does anybody insightfully respond to that type of question? So, I reply, music or Home Theater, pick one and let the other fall where it may. Just saying, if someone wants "chest-pounding-bass," they're going have to buy accordingly or be disappointed.

-

I think we agree more than was previously evident. wink.gif

I also wouldn't generally recommend an output monster to someone who will just use it primarily for music (well, perhaps I would if they're trying to recreate a live rock concert experience biggrin.gif ). However, I do think a well designed "output monster" suitable for HT can be articulate as well, making it an equally great music sub, it just may cost more than one is wanting or able to spend (think Triax wink.gif ).

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Old 01-01-2014, 07:33 PM
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I think we agree more than was previously evident. wink.gif

I also wouldn't generally recommend an output monster to someone who will just use it primarily for music (well, perhaps I would if they're trying to recreate a live rock concert experience biggrin.gif ). However, I do think a well designed "output monster" can be articulate as well, it just may cost more than one is wanting or able to spend (think Triax wink.gif ).

Yeah, I see your point as well Beeman and agree that it makes fiscal sense not to recommend a costly beast of a subwoofer when it's not needed. But I also agree with saturn's points about a beastly subwoofer can also be musical when made properly.  

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Old 01-01-2014, 07:42 PM
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Yeah, I see your point as well Beeman and agree that it makes fiscal sense not to recommend a costly beast of a subwoofer when it's not needed. But I also agree with saturn's points about a beastly subwoofer can also be musical when made properly.  

This has been my experience with my PSA Triax. But as mentioned, it comes at a cost (I questioned my sanity spending so much on a sub, but then I heard it... biggrin.gif ).

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Old 01-01-2014, 07:58 PM
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This has been my experience with my PSA Triax. But as mentioned, it comes at a cost (I questioned my sanity spending so much on a sub, but then I heard it... biggrin.gif ).

I've been posting with blackmambakila who has two of those Triaxes and he loves them. I wish I could afford them but I can't. However, I experienced exactly what you mention with my XV15. It plays music beautifully and of course movies are incredible. I can only imagine what your Triax must be like. :) :D

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Old 01-01-2014, 08:20 PM
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Personally I don't think it matters what you're playing as long as you get the tool for the job you want done; the trick is knowing the parameters of the job when its somewhat of a journey to even understand what you want let alone afford....

"I realize that somebody playing free music isn't as commercial as a hamburger stand. But is it because you can eat a hamburger and hold it in your hand and you can't do that with music? Is it too free to control?" - Don Van Vliet (aka Captain Beefheart) discussing commercial success in the music biz


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Old 01-02-2014, 07:02 PM
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Even though I ultimately decided on a PSA XS-30, I'd still like to add a Rythmik FV15HP to my setup. Ultimately, all that matters is that your happy with your choice. My decision was based on my previous experiences with Tom while he was still with SVS and with him here. No regrets and my wife and I both enjoy our sub with both music and HT. smile.gif
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Old 01-03-2014, 11:41 AM
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Grats on the XS30, looks like an incredible sub for the money.  I may be considering an xs15 for the smaller footprint...the pb12 I just got is not passing the waf.

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Old 01-03-2014, 12:24 PM
 
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Originally Posted by bear123 View Post

Grats on the XS30, looks like an incredible sub for the money.  I may be considering an xs15 for the smaller footprint...the pb12 I just got is not passing the waf.

The key to breaking that logjam, persistent moping around, whining and being a pathetic example of a grown male. tongue.gif

In the case of my wife, we've both come to the same conclusion, any commitments I make to her regarding subwoofers and Home Theater, if taken to the bank, the check will bounce. tongue.gif

I do try and I do work with her sensibilities.....well, all except for the financial part. If that ever happened, I'd be listening to a HTiB.

...eek.gif
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Old 01-03-2014, 01:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bear123 View Post

Grats on the XS30, looks like an incredible sub for the money.  I may be considering an xs15 for the smaller footprint...the pb12 I just got is not passing the waf.

I would give her some more time...I know mine freaked when I bought my pb10 & she compared it to the prior sub at that time. The pb12 is really not that large when you take into account some of the other ported options out there. Like you mentioned going with the xs15 would be a very nice choice...if you have to go smaller...I know the SB13U would definitely fit the bill being an attractive and unobtrusive 17" cube. But....If you really want capable and smaller preforming subs they usually come at premium prices.

Fwiw...heh...my brother was over the other day and saw both subs and quipped the Svs would be perfect fit for his place & my sister in law just shot the idea down! Yup... it's not easy trying to appease others but she'll eventually come around....mine did....I doubt my sister in law would ever...though....biggrin.gif

GL....Bill...smile.gif

Old Indian proverb: We don't inherit the earth from our ancestors, but we borrow it from our children!

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Old 01-03-2014, 01:25 PM
 
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My wife loves the LFEs. Maybe one needs to get the WAF to understand what they're missing by not participating.

If they can't tell a difference, then they don't want to participate but if they can feel the ULF, they're more accepting of our needs.
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