New SVS PB2000 and SB2000 subs!!!!!! - Page 43 - AVS Forum
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post #1261 of 1358 Old 06-04-2014, 12:55 PM
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Okay, so I'll relax and just go with that SB-2000. I know I can return it if I really find it not what I was looking for, but I really would not be all that happy about doing that to SVS, even though I know it's a selling point for them, so some tax-advantage must be in it for them to be able to do that. I'll just plan on being very happy and not having to face that. heh.

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post #1262 of 1358 Old 06-04-2014, 01:39 PM
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Originally Posted by trog69 View Post

Okay, so I'll relax and just go with that SB-2000. I know I can return it if I really find it not what I was looking for, but I really would not be all that happy about doing that to SVS, even though I know it's a selling point for them, so some tax-advantage must be in it for them to be able to do that. I'll just plan on being very happy and not having to face that. heh.

 

Trog, my listening preferences are similar to yours and I have the SB-2000 in a room of 1.320 ft^3. It is more than adequate; in fact, I currently have it equalized at -7 and even at that it's running hot according to SPL metering. I have begun to entertain thoughts of adding a second SB-2000 at some point to smooth response, but one SB2K delivers plenty of punch.

 

And on that subject, I would appreciate reviews/comments/observations from anyone running dual SB-2000s.

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post #1263 of 1358 Old 06-04-2014, 02:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Nikwasi View Post

Trog, my listening preferences are similar to yours and I have the SB-2000 in a room of 1.320 ft^3. It is more than adequate; in fact, I currently have it equalized at -7 and even at that it's running hot according to SPL metering. I have begun to entertain thoughts of adding a second SB-2000 at some point to smooth response, but one SB2K delivers plenty of punch.

And on that subject, I would appreciate reviews/comments/observations from anyone running dual SB-2000s.

Buy a SBU13.

Got a 12" SVS and the 13.5" does hell of a lot better, obviously, I don't believe duals would offer even close the sheer impact the SBU offers.

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post #1264 of 1358 Old 06-04-2014, 03:23 PM
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Buy a SBU13.

Got a 12" SVS and the 13.5" does hell of a lot better, obviously, I don't believe duals would offer even close the sheer impact the SBU offers.

 

Yes, but sheer impact isn't my top priority. My chief goal in adding a second sub would be to flatten response ... though of course the increase in output capacity would be a nice bonus. Another consideration: I could upgrade to dual SB-2000s for $600, whereas it would cost me $900 to trade up for a single Ultra.

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post #1265 of 1358 Old 06-04-2014, 04:20 PM
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Originally Posted by trog69 View Post

Okay, so I'll relax and just go with that SB-2000. I know I can return it if I really find it not what I was looking for, but I really would not be all that happy about doing that to SVS, even though I know it's a selling point for them, so some tax-advantage must be in it for them to be able to do that. I'll just plan on being very happy and not having to face that. heh.

The free return shipping is paid for by people who do not return their subs.  It is included in the price.


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post #1266 of 1358 Old 06-04-2014, 05:47 PM
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If it's included in the price, then everyone pays for it. But I wonder if there isn't some tax reduction woven into it as well. Either way or both, it's great for those of us who aren't able to go and listen for ourselves.

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post #1267 of 1358 Old 06-04-2014, 05:57 PM
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Originally Posted by bear123 View Post
 

The free return shipping is paid for by people who do not return their subs.  It is included in the price.

 

+1

 

Nevertheless, it's win/win as long as customers are satisfied and SVS sees continued prosperity. Personally, I don't mind that a portion of the money I spent helps "sponsor" the SVS return policy (especially since I have taken advantage of it).

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post #1268 of 1358 Old 06-04-2014, 06:00 PM
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Originally Posted by trog69 View Post

If it's included in the price, then everyone pays for it. But I wonder if there isn't some tax reduction woven into it as well. Either way or both, it's great for those of us who aren't able to go and listen for ourselves.

If you demo a sub and return it, you pay nothing.  Those who purchase subs and keep them have paid a little bit in the price to cover return shipping for others.  The government does not offer a special tax break for money spent on shipping.  However, the cost they pay to ship their subs is an expense that is deducted from their income.  Therefore, they do not pay tax on the amount they spend for shipping.  But that is not a tax break per se.  It is better to not incur the cost at all then to save a small percentage of a very large expense.

 

Not to say that this is not a nice feature, especially for those uncertain of which sub to choose.  I would say that the "subsidy" included in the price of the subs is relatively small.


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post #1269 of 1358 Old 06-04-2014, 06:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Nikwasi View Post

Trog, my listening preferences are similar to yours and I have the SB-2000 in a room of 1.320 ft^3. It is more than adequate; in fact, I currently have it equalized at -7 and even at that it's running hot according to SPL metering. I have begun to entertain thoughts of adding a second SB-2000 at some point to smooth response, but one SB2K delivers plenty of punch.

And on that subject, I would appreciate reviews/comments/observations from anyone running dual SB-2000s.

Thanks, Nikwasi. That puts my mind at more ease. I would think that a Sledge 500w amp and a very competent 12" driver should handle things in this tiny room quite well, sealed enclosure or practically sitting out on my desktop. hehe

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post #1270 of 1358 Old 06-04-2014, 06:08 PM
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Originally Posted by bear123 View Post

If you demo a sub and return it, you pay nothing.  Those who purchase subs and keep them have paid a little bit in the price to cover return shipping for others.  The government does not offer a special tax break for money spent on shipping.  However, the cost they pay to ship their subs is an expense that is deducted from their income.  Therefore, they do not pay tax on the amount they spend for shipping.  But that is not a tax break per se.  It is better to not incur the cost at all then to save a small percentage of a very large expense.

Not to say that this is not a nice feature, especially for those uncertain of which sub to choose.  I would say that the "subsidy" included in the price of the subs is relatively small.

Regardless, I'd feel bad if I ended up sending it back just because I didn't like it. I guess because I've never done that before.

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post #1271 of 1358 Old 06-04-2014, 06:16 PM
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Maybe so, but you are not buying the sub with the intention of returning it.  From what you have described, you will very likely by extremely happy with the sub, and it is a step up from what SVS has said will work well in your room.  Order it and enjoy!


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post #1272 of 1358 Old 06-04-2014, 06:44 PM
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If sub placement was close to the listener (ie about 2 to 3 feet away) is it better to get the SB2000 vs PB2000 or does it not matter? Is that too close for a ported sub? If yes what is the closest you can place a ported sub to a listener?

The sub would be used for home theatre purposes only and the room is dedicated and measures 11 feet x 17.5 feet x 7.5 feet high.
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post #1273 of 1358 Old 06-04-2014, 06:52 PM
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Originally Posted by trog69 View Post


Regardless, I'd feel bad if I ended up sending it back just because I didn't like it. I guess because I've never done that before.

 

I ordered a PB-1000, set it up and used it for a week before I called SVS to learn more about the SB-2000. They actually encouraged me to try it in a side-by-side comparison with the PB-1000 - knowing that I would be returning one of the subs - so I did. And it's not that I was disappointed with the PB-1000. In fact, I was so favorably impressed I was willing to stretch my budget to step up. It was the right decision, because I like the SB-2000 much better with my setup.

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post #1274 of 1358 Old 06-04-2014, 07:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Nikwasi View Post

I ordered a PB-1000, set it up and used it for a week before I called SVS to learn more about the SB-2000. They actually encouraged me to try it in a side-by-side comparison with the PB-1000 - knowing that I would be returning one of the subs - so I did. And it's not that I was disappointed with the PB-1000. In fact, I was so favorably impressed I was willing to stretch my budget to step up. It was the right decision, because I like the SB-2000 much better with my setup.

Well, the fact is that if I don't like the SB-2000, the next step up for me will be the PB-2000, for a $100 more. If that's what it takes for me to be happy, I'll find the room for it. But, like you, I think I'll be happy with the SB-2000. I've already acclimated from the pounding bass that erupted from my truck's system way back when, so I already know not to expect the windows to crack, so I'm hoping that the combined higher power and much better driver will be plenty for me. I'm almost positive that a PB-2000 would be way more bass in this room than I'd ever need, or that my next-door neighbor could put up with.

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post #1275 of 1358 Old 06-04-2014, 08:43 PM
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Originally Posted by bear123 View Post

The free return shipping is paid for by people who do not return their subs.  It is included in the price.

I often wonder what SVS could lower their price to if they changed that policy. Then again, would they get as many sales?

It has to be costing them a ton.

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post #1276 of 1358 Old 06-04-2014, 11:00 PM
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SVS has a consumer bill of rights that list several interesting perks, which include 45-day in-home trial, 5 year unconditional warranty, 60-day price guarantee, 90-day defective exchange guarantee, 1-year no lemon guarantee, 1-year performance guarantee, a 1-year trade-up policy as well as free shipping on everything. That is a lot of perks. I'm sure many of these perks were figured into their pricing structure. However, the free shipping back to SVS began one year ago from last May. They did this with no price increase. I also suspect (but do not know for sure) that the "bill of rights" has expanded from what it was originally, and probably in stages.

So while we pay for these services to a point, that doesn't change the fact that no other company I know does what SVS does. Yes, their subs aren't cheap, but certainly appropriately priced in the industry. Most of all, this allows the consumer to buy with confidence that they are protected. It's also one of the reason why my decision to purchase an Ultra was a no-brainer after the trial period.
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post #1277 of 1358 Old 06-05-2014, 01:05 AM
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I often wonder what SVS could lower their price to if they changed that policy. Then again, would they get as many sales?

It has to be costing them a ton.

I don't see why I should pay for people returning it. Also what happens to the returned subs, sold off as B stock or checked over and sold as new?

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post #1278 of 1358 Old 06-05-2014, 03:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Frank D View Post

If sub placement was close to the listener (ie about 2 to 3 feet away) is it better to get the SB2000 vs PB2000 or does it not matter? Is that too close for a ported sub? If yes what is the closest you can place a ported sub to a listener?

The sub would be used for home theatre purposes only and the room is dedicated and measures 11 feet x 17.5 feet x 7.5 feet high.

The PB2000 will be the right sub for your needs.  The closer the better, although placement should be geared towards getting the best FR.  If you cannot measure, use the sub crawl to find good placement options.  If one is near field, it will increase tactile effect.

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post #1279 of 1358 Old 06-05-2014, 04:10 AM
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Wonder if they plan on upgrading the cylinders too.
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post #1280 of 1358 Old 06-05-2014, 07:43 AM
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I don't see why I should pay for people returning it.

Well, if the customer service options + performance doesn't meet your needs, then don't buy one. LOL

My guess is that baloo_btru is right. Their 45 day in home trial free shipping both ways policy cost to the company is probably easily covered by increases in revenues, not passed off to other consumers. If they didn't have that policy, fewer people would be trying their subs and keeping them, and fewer people would be talking about them, too, because there would be fewer owners, which word of mouth recommendations must be important for marketing for an Internet direct vendor. Think about it. If you sell at least one more sub per sub returned under that policy, the company would be making more money than without it. The shipping on one sub is not equal to or more than the net revenue on a sub.
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post #1281 of 1358 Old 06-05-2014, 08:16 AM
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Originally Posted by bear123 View Post

The PB2000 will be the right sub for your needs.  The closer the better, although placement should be geared towards getting the best FR.  If you cannot measure, use the sub crawl to find good placement options.  If one is near field, it will increase tactile effect.

Mine is practically under my butt as I type this, and I can certainly verify that you're correct. While leaning on my desk while surfing/listening to music, the bass travels from my arms to my chest. Ultra-tactile!

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post #1282 of 1358 Old 06-05-2014, 10:10 AM
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It should be pointed out that they probably don't get too many returns anyway once people get these in their homes. They sound fantastic and their cases of buyers remorse are most likely near 0%, so it's a great marketing move on their part with very little cost associated with it.

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post #1283 of 1358 Old 06-05-2014, 10:28 AM
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Good point Dave....imagine test driving a new car for 45 days.....its probly not going back :D


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post #1284 of 1358 Old 06-05-2014, 11:08 AM
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Good point Dave....imagine test driving a new car for 45 days.....its probly not going back biggrin.gif

Another automotive analogy, bear?

They tend to result in you being called a smartass. wink.gif

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post #1285 of 1358 Old 06-05-2014, 11:22 AM
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Well, if the customer service options + performance doesn't meet your needs, then don't buy one. LOL

My guess is that baloo_btru is right. Their 45 day in home trial free shipping both ways policy cost to the company is probably easily covered by increases in revenues, not passed off to other consumers. If they didn't have that policy, fewer people would be trying their subs and keeping them, and fewer people would be talking about them, too, because there would be fewer owners, which word of mouth recommendations must be important for marketing for an Internet direct vendor. Think about it. If you sell at least one more sub per sub returned under that policy, the company would be making more money than without it. The shipping on one sub is not equal to or more than the net revenue on a sub.

Definitely....I personally have decided to only buy an SVS due to their bill of rights. I'm sure I'm not the only one.
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post #1286 of 1358 Old 06-05-2014, 11:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Dave Vaughn View Post

It should be pointed out that they probably don't get too many returns anyway once people get these in their homes. They sound fantastic and their cases of buyers remorse are most likely near 0%, so it's a great marketing move on their part with very little cost associated with it.

Definitely so. But you also see a lot of people ordering different ones to test, compare, try duals, etc.

So its not the returns thats killer, but the return shipping + trial period. Their shipping expense has to be large relative to other companies. Obviously I'm sure they ran the numbers and decided the increased sales from the policy would offset the increased costs I'd just be very curious to see their income statements.

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post #1287 of 1358 Old 06-05-2014, 11:35 AM
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Companies with Fedex shipping accounts receive massive discounts as well.

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post #1288 of 1358 Old 06-05-2014, 01:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baloo_btru View Post

Definitely so. But you also see a lot of people ordering different ones to test, compare, try duals, etc.

So its not the returns thats killer, but the return shipping + trial period. Their shipping expense has to be large relative to other companies. Obviously I'm sure they ran the numbers and decided the increased sales from the policy would offset the increased costs I'd just be very curious to see their income statements.

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Originally Posted by Pain Infliction View Post

Companies with Fedex shipping accounts receive massive discounts as well.

Throw in the profit margin on a subwoofer, which is probably pretty high because the list of parts aren't too crazy and I think they can still turn a pretty good profit.

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post #1289 of 1358 Old 06-05-2014, 02:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Dave Vaughn View Post

Throw in the profit margin on a subwoofer, which is probably pretty high because the list of parts aren't too crazy and I think they can still turn a pretty good profit.

 

A substantial portion of the production cost of an SVS sub lies in research and development, I would think.

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post #1290 of 1358 Old 06-05-2014, 03:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Frank D View Post

If sub placement was close to the listener (ie about 2 to 3 feet away) is it better to get the SB2000 vs PB2000 or does it not matter? Is that too close for a ported sub? If yes what is the closest you can place a ported sub to a listener?

The sub would be used for home theatre purposes only and the room is dedicated and measures 11 feet x 17.5 feet x 7.5 feet high.

I put my PB-2000 about that far from my MLP, corner loaded (roughly, 1-2 feet from corner). Me likey. biggrin.gif

Note I have no testing equipment to tell me that is the best place or any other such metrics.
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Klipsch Rw 12d 12 Subwoofer Each , Svs Pb2000 , Svs Sb2000 , Svs Pb1000 10 Inch 300 Watt Powered Subwoofer
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